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Reuters: Michael Jackson Fans Says Film Covers Up Grim Truth

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Neeve said:
I'm not going to stoop to your level of mocking. If you had read the whole thread you would know that I'm not supporting or promoting conspriacies.
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Neeve, I did read your post completely. You're very active on the This is Not It thread, and you're saying you wish to promote "respect" for this group here while remaining "neutral". I'm sorry, but I have a little thing about people hiding behind anonymous forums trashing people baselessly -- in this case, flinging around accusations of murder. I don't believe this behavior deserves respect at all, but deserves instead to be called out as irrresponsible. This isn't a game; these are real people with families we're talking about. Satire is an honored means of bringing serious issues to light.
 
Victoria83 said:
The point here is that some folks have been deeply involved in investigating the circumstances surrounding Michael's death, and some have chosen not to be involved. Either way is ok. However, if you are not knowledgeable about the details and genuine facts, please do not discount what they have to say. These fans were close to Michael, daily. That is more than the vast majority of us here can say. They saw his decline to the extent that they gave him letters expressing their concern. They deserve to be treated with respect, as anyone does.
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walkaway said:
Sorry, I don't have time to read the whole thread. But I just wanted to say that I can totally understand these fans wanting to ask the questions posed by the reuters article. If I had been there, on a regular basis, and had seen Michael's weight go down and his general appearance diminish I would try to do something about it (write letters etc). If that was ignored or blocked or my concerns were turned away, and then Michael died (sorry to be so blunt), then no matter what the ultimate cause of death was I would campaign to know why I was ignored, why Michael had looked the way he did, what impact (if any) Michael's health had on his passing.

It's not about conspiracies, it's about demanding to know the whole truth.

ETA: As for the autopsy report, has anyone actually seen the original??? Or are we just relying on the newspapers to report it accurately?
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Exactly!!!

I know the reason those fans are doing this. I have been following the investigations, analysing every interviews, reports, autopsy, news and doing my own research. While most fans choose to believe that it was solely Dr. Murray's fault, a few of us look deeper.
When I read a lot of articles and do my own research, I understand what these fans are doing.
These fans are around MJ when he on his final days. They are witnesses, they know his conditions and they are NOT lying although they may be a little exaggerating. So why do other fans who didn't even see MJ during his last few weeks or even had never meet MJ themselves going against these fans?
Why do fans still choose to believe AEG and autopsy reports that said he was healthy and showing no signs of illness? By the way, do you know the source of the autopsy report? it is not official! IT's leaked...It's modified. There was already another autopsy report which reports different weight and height and his conditions just a few weeks after MJ's passed away. Which is real? Neither?

AEG and those people you read in the interview are making a lot of profit, why do fans choose to follow them? Why can't we listen to both side? Judge for ourself and realised the corrupted world we live in with many things and truth being cover up.
 
ivy said:
I read the testimonials when they first started. I understand where they are coming from - I think all of us think that this was a great loss, it is a loss that could most probably be avoided - so why did nobody prevent this from happening? This is a legit concern.

I also believe that they are telling the truth. I have no reason to believe otherwise or to discredit these fans.

But they are forgetting 2 important points.
1. yes they were around - mainly waiting and seeing MJ as he comes and goes to places but they were not right next to him 24/7. so they don't know the whole story, they just know some parts. So they actually do not know whether or not people warned MJ, talked with him, told him to take care or etc. They just assume that nobody did- and actually this is very wrong as they are convicting people without any solid proof but with just assumption and emotion.
2. they (and we) have no idea if the above situation happened what would MJ reaction was or going to be. Will he listen and make changes or just say leave me alone. A thousand people might have tried to save MJ but he could have not listened. This was a 50 year adult, it is not like they could get him committed to a hospital or force down food his throat or knock him unconscious to make him sleep.

In summary they make these very serious accusations without no solid proof but just with emotion. ( I take MJ's words about the contract as truth but he did not die due to unhappiness about the contract, or performing to closely or due to ticketting issues or due to seating arrangements etc).


And let's be honest I love MJ with all my heart but we know that he did not eat at his previous tours as well. We all know how Liz Taylor had hand feed him , how eventually they had to do it intravenously. We also heard that he had an expert touring with him and putting him to sleep in the 1990s as well. To me this looks like a long term issue and if we are going to say "why did nobody do anything to prevent this from happening?" we really should go back and point our finger to anybody that had contact with MJ from the day this weight/ sleep/drug issues started until today.
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I agree with this. I have listened to what they have to say but I think now they are going overboard. When I saw on their site that they are asking people to come up with ways to get media attention at several premieres (using a gold casket as an idea might I add) they lost me.
It seems to me all the positive attention they used to give Michael has turned around in to hating the people they think hurt Michael in some way. Yet they have no solid proof.
That's what gets me, all they have is what they think they saw. Which is fine and they should express that, but going on a media campaign with that? Also I don't see the point, they told their story to the police appariantly so what more do they think to achieve with this?
To me the whole 'this is not it' thing has always felt like an ''you're either with us or against us'' kind of thing. Like people who believe them are better fans or something.I don't like that kind of atmosphere.

I also think they should really think about what Michael would think about this. (This is mainly about the bring a gold casket to premiers thing, which I think is one of the most disrepectfull things they could do)

Anyway just my opion.
 
I'm soooooo damn happy that TINI campaign has made first impact...Reuters picked it up.. :)
Thank you so much follower fans...You were with Michael day and night :) Maybe this is the reason, fighting for the TRUTH after his death. God bless you all. All the best.

Anti-TINI fans enthusiasm will die when the movie hype is over. TINI campaign will go on even for years until we know the TRUTH.

Carry on guys ...Again great start. :)

I have brought these following links from facebook:


In Holland

Fans Michael Jackson woedend op makers This is It

http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1022/Celebs/...el-Jackson-woedend-op-makers-This-is-It.dhtml

In Malaysia

Michael Jackson fans say film covers up grim truth

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...el-jackson-fans-say-film-covers-up-grim-truth
 
DanceOfZenab1994 said:
I believe Michael's creative mind went into overdrive with all these ideas for the show and from that he unintentionally ignored his eating etc, and his mind constantly thinking kept him up all night which made him desperate for a solution which made careless, ignorant Murray give him the drug (which you are not allowed to give outside the hospital!) and that killed him.

So that's my belief -

* Brain overdrive
* Unintentionally ignoring himself
* Leads to severe insomnia
* Desperate for a solution
* Murray gives him drug which kills him
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March 2008:
The Los angeles businessman had made millions buying and selling distressed and undervalued properties and on this sweltering day in the Nevada desert in march 2008, he was about to check out one of the most dilapidated investments he had ever viewed: pop icon Michael Jackson. Michael was so weak and he greeted Barrack from a wheelchair.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/105391


‘When I first met him in Las Vegas, he was out of touch. Michael was secluded and retreating from everybody. It was just him and his kids. He used to use the wheelchair. I said, let’s get rid of this. You have to realise that you had to baby Michael Jackson. I wanted people to see him as a healthy human being. - Thome Thome

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...nager-reveals-rift-funeral.html#ixzz0RwY5s5Rn

Michael Jackson in disguises visiting a bookshop in Las Vegas on 7th July 2008

July072008-1.jpg
July072008.jpg
 
Promoter Says Michael Jackson Isn't Capable Of Las Vegas Show
May 29th, 2008 4:48pm EDT

A Las Vegas promoter has poured scorn on reports Michael Jackson is planning a Las Vegas spectacular - insisting the pop superstar is incapable of performing ever again.

Jackson prompted speculation he would headline his own Sin City residency when an equity group linked to the Las Vegas Hilton helped him save his Neverland Ranch from foreclosure.

He has also made a number of personal appearances in the Nevada city of late - including at an Ultimate Fighting Championship match on Saturday.

But promoter Jack Wishna - who helped Celine Dion secure her successful stint in Las Vegas - insists Jackson isn't fit enough to return to the stage.

He tells the National Enquirer, "Sadly, Michael's incapable of keeping promises, because he hasn't got the will to even show up anywhere, much less get himself into shape for a world-class performance. He might drop by to wave at guests, or do a dance on top of a limo, but a longterm show? That dream will never come true, I'm afraid."
http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/05/29/promoter_says_michael_jackson_isn_t_capa
 
I think maybe these fans are having trouble accepting that Michael was killed and are trying to make themselves feel better.
 
The megastar attended Cedars-Sinai hospital in Los Angeles to hear the news last month, but is expected to make a full recovery for his London O2 dates in July.

Michael is currently rehearsing for his string of sell-out dates in the UK and his business manager, Dr. Tomhe says he “couldn’t be in better shape.”

He must mean physically, and even that's a stretch.

May182009.jpg

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2009/05/report-michael-jackson-has-cancer/
 
I'm totally in with this campaign because it will trouble the muddy waters ,it will make the investigation move on .THEY should know people around the globe is watching and waiting for the truth!
 
xrisx said:
I agree with this. I have listened to what they have to say but I think now they are going overboard. When I saw on their site that they are asking people to come up with ways to get media attention at several premieres (using a gold casket as an idea might I add) they lost me.
It seems to me all the positive attention they used to give Michael has turned around in to hating the people they think hurt Michael in some way. Yet they have no solid proof.
That's what gets me, all they have is what they think they saw. Which is fine and they should express that, but going on a media campaign with that? Also I don't see the point, they told their story to the police appariantly so what more do they think to achieve with this?
To me the whole 'this is not it' thing has always felt like an ''you're either with us or against us'' kind of thing. Like people who believe them are better fans or something.I don't like that kind of atmosphere.

I also think they should really think about what Michael would think about this. (This is mainly about the bring a gold casket to premiers thing, which I think is one of the most disrepectfull things they could do)

Anyway just my opion.
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I agree they might be going overboard especially with the casket thing and it could create wrong impression! But most of the campaign of creating awareness is totally fine. If something is keep hidden from us and there are people who knows it, they have to speak up! They have to make their voice heard. It's true, they may not have evidence, evidence such as AEG may be involve in planning Michael murder, evidence that Michael forced to rehearse and so on but they were there and they said Michael told them how unhappy he was and they noticed that he was weak and too thin.
They experience affect their thinkings and believe a lot. For now, we just have to stand with them and seek for the truth as well, because we know many things could be cover up and hidden from us.
 
coltzishory said:
I'm totally in with this campaign because it will trouble the muddy waters ,it will make the investigation move on .THEY should know people around the globe is watching and waiting for the truth!
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Ahhh!!! This what I really want to say ask well!!! Thank you!!

I always know there are so many things being covering up from us. From Dr. Murray's lies to AEG and Sony making millions and billions with albums and TII movies sales!
 
mjjmsc said:
this is so stupid!Michael was healthy!
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How many times must be said that it was a LEAKED medical report (which ca be modified)not an official one!I don't choose to relief my pain from inside and be selfish dreaming about Michael Jackson -my hero...I choose to love and remember a wonderfull human beeing,yet with his fears and tribulations!
 
qbee said:
Hi chris
I see the testimonies but ..
there are no answers to questions we have just testimonies and I have some questions about them.
Becuase I believe there is some false info in some of them _In fact I know its false plus there is some
questionable info stated that I would like to ask them about _ that isnt clear to me.


I am not against the general TINI idea _ but I also see a lot of unfounded attacking, HATE and accusations
that have nothing to do with the info given by the follower fans _ yet you seem to welcome that to the TINI .
That is why people are confused as to what TINI agenda IS .. You all say something different _ and I would
think most fans dont want to be involved with a HATE group becuase that Is everthing MJ stood against.

Is there a spokesperson for TINI that we can contact
and will be willing to answer questions for the fans and clarify the Agenda of TINI??

If we are all suppose to bond together _
then we need to have some facts and questions answered on things
that are not clear about the follower testimonies and the TINI agenda itself

Questions are good :) thay help clarify things


HELP US Please ?
What is the AGENDA or mission statement of TINI ??


One question Ive been trying to get an answer for ..
Ive asked and have not recieved an answer. Someone stated that MJs coreographer or body guard
cant remember which now) physically forced MJ to go to a rehearsal against MJs will _ I just find that
accusation uncredible _ and NO source was ever given_ I think it is an important question

where did that info that MJ was forced to go to reheasals come from ???
1. Who was the source for that statement ?
2. who was it that was forcing MJ against his will ?
3. What did they see and hear to make them believe such a thing ??

Please See if someone is willing to speak for TINI and
answer questions we fans might have??



ON A SIDE NOTE _ just to let you know _ so you can nip that in the bud_
in case you want to make an official statement or something on your TINI site
Did you guys know that some Michael Jackson Death hoax people have taken up
your slogan _:doh: "This Is Not it " so fans are somehow confusing the 2 together _ :(
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Very good Points. Also I have noticed several sites using TINI slogan and using completly different info. from the orginal TINI 'points' I think it is very important to make sure those ppl are warned because they could be damanging what TINI is trying to put across.
 
Yazman said:
Oh come on, Michael was in great health, even see the autopsy report.

It was a HOMICIDE! The drugs put into his system by Conrad Murray killed him.
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"His overall health was fine," said Zeev Kain
Michael was healthy because Dr. Zeev Kain said so???? who was paid to analyze the LEAKED autopsy report.

That autopsy says the followings too:

Still, Jackson had health issues: arthritis in the lower spine and some fingers, and mild plaque buildup in his leg arteries. Most serious was his lungs, which the autopsy report said were chronically inflamed and had reduced capacity that might have left him short of breath.

With inflamed lungs and shortness of breath, do you think Michael would have been able to sing and dance to perform LIVE for 2 hours at 50 concerts?

With arthritis in the lower spine, do you think Michael would have been able to dance for hours at 50 concerts?
 
if michael was so FRAIL how come he passed a health test for the insureres?

if michael was in such BAD HEALTH how did he manage to dance his pants off?

if michael was so in such a BAD WAY how come he was so focused?

my belief is that the awful admistering of that drug killed him!!

surely someone who is such bad health cant perform like that( ref the rehearsal's)

if they can then man I want to be in bad health!! michael was underweight i believe, but he was'nt in such a bad way!! if he was where would he get the amazing energy needed for performing???!!
 
watching michael dance and move about the stage on the tii footage.....let me ask the jury, does that look like a really ill man to you???....
 
I don't particularly trust Reuters as a source, the reason why it is owned by Rothschild and Jacob Rothschild is Tom Barrack's of colony capital, best buddy. They bought the Savoy Hotels together.

I do appreciate the follower fans and believe them 100% when they say that Michael was not in good health, but this distracts from what I believe is murder. I believe Michael was being poisoned.
 
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AEG did not kill him, his weight did not kill him BUT he did have sleepless nights for one reason and that was because they were driving him insane, they were exploiting him and they were "killing him" those were Michael's own words how can you ignore that?!
when he spoke to the fans in may that was a cry for help, and I believe he did intend to cancel a few shows he even said that in Klein's office, but when he tried to reach out to fans most of you didn't listen. in fact many fans were criticizing him for not working hard enough, everybody knew he was missing rehearsals
he tried his best to please everyone but something was definitely wrong
many jump with "It was the drug that killed him end of story" but nobody's wondering why did he turn to such a desperate measure as using propofol? he couldn't get any sleep because was stressed out of his mind that's why
 
m26uk said:
if michael was so FRAIL how come he passed a health test for the insureres?

if michael was in such BAD HEALTH how did he manage to dance his pants off?

if michael was so in such a BAD WAY how come he was so focused?

my belief is that the awful admistering of that drug killed him!!

surely someone who is such bad health cant perform like that( ref the rehearsal's)

if they can then man I want to be in bad health!! michael was underweight i believe, but he was'nt in such a bad way!! if he was where would he get the amazing energy needed for performing???!!
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Michael passed medical with flying colours because THE DOCTOR WAS HIRED BY AEG.

To obtain insurance for the tour, AEG arranged for an independent physician to conduct a five-hour physical exam of Mr. Jackson. "He passed with flying colors," said AEG's Mr. Phillips.

http://mjjtimeline.over-blog.com/article-26529471.html

The health report did not mention any of Michael's existing health problems, like his burnt out scalp from the Pepsi commercial, reports OK! magazine.

When the insurance brokers sent their doctor to examine Jackson, the doctor was turned back and told the pop star was unable to see him.

An insurance cover policy was provisionally inked subject to a repeat test scheduled on July 11. Jackson died on June 25.

http://www.sawfnews.com/gossip/59208.aspx

What/Who made Michael to dance his pants off with arthritis????

What/Who made Michael to sing with inflamed lungs and shortness of breath???
 
m26uk said:
watching michael dance and move about the stage on the tii footage.....let me ask the jury, does that look like a really ill man to you???....
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Those footage was edited and picked out of 135 hours of film which was taped over couple of months.

Let me ask the jury...would that man able to dance and sing for 2-3 hours consistently at 50 concerts??????????????????????????????????
 
AmberR said:
What/Who made Michael to dance his pants off with arthritis????

What/Who made Michael to sing with inflamed lungs and shortness of breath???
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Since you are bringing up medical issues MJ had, directly from the autopsy report, that must mean you know it said his weight was healthy for someone his age. Are you denying that?!
 
you know maybe there is some truth to what these fans are saying but they weren't with him 24/7 they only saw him a few hours a day they don't know the whole story
I don't understand why there doing this I mean what do they want to accomplish?
Murray is the one who killed Micheal why aren't ppl mad at him? why are they so mad at AEG and Sony what could they have done?and how do these fans know that they didn't try to help out?
here is what these fans are doing right now:
*there scaring ppl and making them feel guilty by watching the movie
*there avoiding very important questions
*there calling fans who believe the official report blind and stupid
*there spreading hate without any proof to there claims
*there making them selfs and other MJ fans look ignorant and crazy
*they are only hurting MJ's legacy and thats the only thing I'm sure they will accomplish
*they are focusing on the wrong ppl Murray is the one that killed Micheal and fans should fight to make that well known and that Micheal was not a hopeless drug addict
*they snap at every person who disagrees with them and use weird tactics to get there message out
I believe that Micheal was healthy I'm not blind nor am I in denial and no one has the right to accuse me of that yes maybe Micheal was tired and yes maybe he was a little underweight but overall he was healthy and Murray's stupidity is the coz of his death
no one pointed a gun to Micheal's head and told him not to eat he was a 50yr old man
and he also didn't eat in other tours and lost a lot of weight before that didn't kill him
this is my opinion about the subject and it will not change till I see medical or official proof to there claims
I'm out of here.
 
wendy2004 said:
My opinion. No effect...except for reporters, etc. who are looking for drama. This movie doesn't give anyone ANY drama and all who have previewed it have come away focused on Michael's art and genius.

Like I said when this all started, people should have been careful about saying who did or didn't care...becuz no one really knew WHO was doing or saying what behind the scenes to Michael. None of us were with Michael 24/7 or were privy to all his conversations with others. The only contact those fans really had was Karen. And only becuz she communicated with them did some fans give her a "pass" as being "the only one who tried to help". Had it not been for that, I'm sure Karen, too would have been painted as an uncaring lackey who ignored ish to get paid. And I'm not saying NO ONE falls into that category...just saying. Point is we had NO idea who ALL else tried to step in or who DID step in. It was kinda wrong to paint EVERYONE with the broad "uncaring" brush, IMHO, from the get-go. To say people are covering up now is an easy excuse, imo, for some getting caught wrong. Others MAY have cared. These fans simply did not know. How could they know?

From what I've heard thus far from Kenny and Bearden and Travis, it seems Michael was approached by others about any concerns. It seems like ppl did assist Michael with "things" but it wasn't becuz Michael was disinterested in the doing the shows. It sounds like his attention was scattered on various projects that were competing for his attention. Becuz these ppl didn't all rush out to defend themeselves months ago cuz a group of fans were upset doesn't HAVE to mean there's a sudden cover up. That can be someone's perception and they are entitled to it, doesn't make it the truth. I feel we are NOW hearing about it becuz these ppl are doing promotion for the film and sure, they are aware about the talk about Michael's health. I still haven't heard any of them say they thought MIchael was near death.

What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny. And when you realize all the things he was working on and involved in from the shows to the 2-3 albums to the Opus to the TII merchandise, training with Lou, training his voice with Seth, designing posters for the Thriller 3D film, etc. it sounds like his plate was more than full professionally. Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him. Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
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Very good points.

I understand the TINI fans and their concerns, although sometimes it seems to me that things go too far. But they raise interesting issues.

Michael was a workaholic, and should have been stopped many times before. I know what I'm talking about, I am a workaholic myself. He probably understood it was not good for him, but couldn't help it.

He had similar issues with previous tours, and did his best to keep it to himself, and never show his audience if anything was wrong.
I love watching his concerts, even if I know he came back exhausted from the Bad tour, had health issues during both the Dangerous and History tours.

The This is it shows were supposed to be his comeback. As always, he wanted them to be perfect, he wanted to thrill his audience. He worked hard for this.

The movie is all that's left for us to have a glimpse of what he wanted to show us and the world.

So I think I will love This is it, as I loved his previous shows. That's his work, his art.
 
Nova said:
Since you are bringing up medical issues MJ had, directly from the autopsy report, that must mean you know it said his weight was healthy for someone his age. Are you denying that?!
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Yes I'm denying that..his weight was reported selectively.

His 136 pounds were in the acceptable range for a 5-foot-9 man.

'They' didn't want to tell that he weighed more than 136 (obviously would've been a lie) and not below 136 (it would go below healthy range)

Doctor said ...but he wasn't the sickly skeleton of a man portrayed by tabloids

So that report was LEAKED to tell that "HE WAS HEALTHY" based on his weight ONLY and that weight was fabricated with WORDINGS.
 
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