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Reuters: Michael Jackson Fans Says Film Covers Up Grim Truth

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Gottobethere said:
Do you think this will help the movie or hinder it?
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My opinion. No effect...except for reporters, etc. who are looking for drama. This movie doesn't give anyone ANY drama and all who have previewed it have come away focused on Michael's art and genius.

Like I said when this all started, people should have been careful about saying who did or didn't care...becuz no one really knew WHO was doing or saying what behind the scenes to Michael. None of us were with Michael 24/7 or were privy to all his conversations with others. The only contact those fans really had was Karen. And only becuz she communicated with them did some fans give her a "pass" as being "the only one who tried to help". Had it not been for that, I'm sure Karen, too would have been painted as an uncaring lackey who ignored ish to get paid. And I'm not saying NO ONE falls into that category...just saying. Point is we had NO idea who ALL else tried to step in or who DID step in. It was kinda wrong to paint EVERYONE with the broad "uncaring" brush, IMHO, from the get-go. To say people are covering up now is an easy excuse, imo, for some getting caught wrong. Others MAY have cared. These fans simply did not know. How could they know?

From what I've heard thus far from Kenny and Bearden and Travis, it seems Michael was approached by others about any concerns. It seems like ppl did assist Michael with "things" but it wasn't becuz Michael was disinterested in the doing the shows. It sounds like his attention was scattered on various projects that were competing for his attention. Becuz these ppl didn't all rush out to defend themeselves months ago cuz a group of fans were upset doesn't HAVE to mean there's a sudden cover up. That can be someone's perception and they are entitled to it, doesn't make it the truth. I feel we are NOW hearing about it becuz these ppl are doing promotion for the film and sure, they are aware about the talk about Michael's health. I still haven't heard any of them say they thought MIchael was near death.

What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny. And when you realize all the things he was working on and involved in from the shows to the 2-3 albums to the Opus to the TII merchandise, training with Lou, training his voice with Seth, designing posters for the Thriller 3D film, etc. it sounds like his plate was more than full professionally. Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him. Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
 
callmerose said:
So, if these fans spoke to him and tried their best to convince him to take care of himself and it didn't work, what could have been done? What did he say to them when they expressed their concerns? Did he shrug them off? Did he say he was feeling pressured? More info please! Michael was very strong willed. I am not clear yet that anybody could have made him do anything different. But I would like to hear the fans that spoke with him regularly tell us how he reacted to their concerns. I think the idea of an interview with these fans would be great. Maybe a live chat or something, so we can ask these kind of questions.
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If you read their testimony it will explain a lot about the way things happened. It is a very sad read but i am glad i read them. I understand your question and i don't really understand what they hope to achieve but i am glad i got the chance to read what was really going on which i think is kinda there aim just to let people know their story but i suppose sadly the bottom line is that Michael is his own man and at 51 he makes his own decisions.
 
I'll ask Gary if we can post questions for the follower fans on the forum. I think it's high time that as fans we support our fellow fans and hear them out instead of automatically bashing them and/or discrediting them.
 
I just don't know what to think. i do KNOW dr. murray is at fault no matter.. I want to know the truth. I am going to the movie.. i hope that everyone finds their peace... May truth prevail.
 
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wendy2004 said:
My opinion. No effect...except for reporters, etc. who are looking for drama. This movie doesn't give anyone ANY drama and all who have previewed it have come away focused on Michael's art and genius.

Like I said when this all started, people should have been careful about saying who did or didn't care...becuz no one really knew WHO was doing or saying what behind the scenes to Michael. None of us were with Michael 24/7 or were privy to all his conversations with others. The only contact those fans really had was Karen. And only becuz she communicated with them did some fans give her a "pass" as being "the only one who tried to help". Had it not been for that, I'm sure Karen, too would have been painted as an uncaring lackey who ignored ish to get paid. And I'm not saying NO ONE falls into that category...just saying. Point is we had NO idea who ALL else tried to step in or who DID step in. It was kinda wrong to paint EVERYONE with the broad "uncaring" brush, IMHO, from the get-go. To say people are covering up now is an easy excuse, imo, for some getting caught wrong. Others MAY have cared. These fans simply did not know. How could they know?

From what I've heard thus far from Kenny and Bearden and Travis, it seems Michael was approached by others about any concerns. It seems like ppl did assist Michael with "things" but it wasn't becuz Michael was disinterested in the doing the shows. It sounds like his attention was scattered on various projects that were competing for his attention. Becuz these ppl didn't all rush out to defend themeselves months ago cuz a group of fans were upset doesn't HAVE to mean there's a sudden cover up. That can be someone's perception and they are entitled to it, doesn't make it the truth. I feel we are NOW hearing about it becuz these ppl are doing promotion for the film and sure, they are aware about the talk about Michael's health. I still haven't heard any of them say they thought MIchael was near death.

What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny. And when you realize all the things he was working on and involved in from the shows to the 2-3 albums to the Opus to the TII merchandise, training with Lou, training his voice with Seth, designing posters for the Thriller 3D film, etc. it sounds like his plate was more than full professionally. Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him. Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
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this is a great question:clapping:
 
shimar said:
Sounds like a good idea. I think it'll at least help us understand what they saw, who they saw around MJ, etc.
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Don't they have a site which pretty much does this already? I think all the info people want can probably be found there. And I think they already have a thread on here somewhere too.
 
wendy2004 said:
Don't they have a site which pretty much does this already? I think all the info people want can probably be found there. And I think they already have a thread on here somewhere too.
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There are plenty of questions for these fans that have not been asked yet and I think everything should be explored.
 
I've read the info on the TINI site and I do appreciate and respect their point of view. I think I understand it much better after taking the time to read their information more carefully. They loved MJ and were close to him, and they just want/wanted what is best for him; and their viewpoint is very valid and justified. I don't question that. But that doesn't mean that everyone else can or should look at things the same way.

I don't want negativity to shroud Michael's legacy, which This Is It is a part of. It is our last chance to see him and witness his vocal, visual, and musical genius. I just feel like it should be a positive testament to his talent, rather than fodder for the tabloids and negative press that has followed him his entire life.

And for me, having never had the chance to meet MJ or see him perform live, This Is It is the closest I will ever get to that experience. So I'm not going to focus on negative aspects when I watch this film. I'm sure I'll see them, but I'm not going to focus on them. Do I think he was too skinny? Yes. Will I see that in the film? I'd imagine so. But will I let it mar the magic of Michael and the movie? Not likely.

There won't be anymore chances to see MJ on film or performing. He may have unreleased songs that we'll get to hear eventually (I hope), but we'll never get to see him perform those songs on TV or live or any other way. There's not much else to look forward to, musically, for the future.

THIS IS IT.

And I just want it to be a positive experience and a positive impact on Michael's legacy.
 
wendy2004 said:
My opinion. No effect...except for reporters, etc. who are looking for drama. This movie doesn't give anyone ANY drama and all who have previewed it have come away focused on Michael's art and genius.

Like I said when this all started, people should have been careful about saying who did or didn't care...becuz no one really knew WHO was doing or saying what behind the scenes to Michael. None of us were with Michael 24/7 or were privy to all his conversations with others. The only contact those fans really had was Karen. And only becuz she communicated with them did some fans give her a "pass" as being "the only one who tried to help". Had it not been for that, I'm sure Karen, too would have been painted as an uncaring lackey who ignored ish to get paid. And I'm not saying NO ONE falls into that category...just saying. Point is we had NO idea who ALL else tried to step in or who DID step in. It was kinda wrong to paint EVERYONE with the broad "uncaring" brush, IMHO, from the get-go. To say people are covering up now is an easy excuse, imo, for some getting caught wrong. Others MAY have cared. These fans simply did not know. How could they know?

From what I've heard thus far from Kenny and Bearden and Travis, it seems Michael was approached by others about any concerns. It seems like ppl did assist Michael with "things" but it wasn't becuz Michael was disinterested in the doing the shows. It sounds like his attention was scattered on various projects that were competing for his attention. Becuz these ppl didn't all rush out to defend themeselves months ago cuz a group of fans were upset doesn't HAVE to mean there's a sudden cover up. That can be someone's perception and they are entitled to it, doesn't make it the truth. I feel we are NOW hearing about it becuz these ppl are doing promotion for the film and sure, they are aware about the talk about Michael's health. I still haven't heard any of them say they thought MIchael was near death.

What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny. And when you realize all the things he was working on and involved in from the shows to the 2-3 albums to the Opus to the TII merchandise, training with Lou, training his voice with Seth, designing posters for the Thriller 3D film, etc. it sounds like his plate was more than full professionally. Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him. Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
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I agree with some of your post.....shoull we be angry towards Murray???,,,,,,Hell yes I am so angry at Murray there are no words to describe it...and yes Michael was a perfectionist and couldn't shut it off at will.....I also posted this question a few days ago in another post.....if Michael was up all night talking on the phone ...when did Murray put him under propofol???...this is a question that eats at me everyday...why did Murray continue to give Michael so much medication...this eats at me everyday......why did Murray wait so long befoe calling 911??...this eats at me everyday......Why didn;t Kenny or Randy stop the concerts if they saw Michael losing a drastic amount of weight in a short period of time.?????...This eats at me every day......so see they are all to blame......this is why the thisisnotit campaign must be supported.
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
I guess that's just too simple, so there MUST be a conspiracy involved!

I actually think he looks pretty hot in the orange pants. :D

And paranoid, and unable to accept the simplicity of how he died too. This idea of a grand scheme... with people conspiring to kill Michael, just for money, just doesn't work for me. Not everyone in the world is out for money and trying to shaft (muchless MURDER) someone else. *I* have a motive to go rob my local bank.... MONEY. Doesn't mean I'm going to do it. My morals would prevent me from that, and the fear of getting caught. But with the accusations of this mass conspiracy to murder Michael, I guess *everyone* involved had low morals. I'm not buying it. :no:
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well we know that whether a person buys something or not does not affect whether or not it is true.
 
wendy2004 said:
What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny. And when you realize all the things he was working on and involved in from the shows to the 2-3 albums to the Opus to the TII merchandise, training with Lou, training his voice with Seth, designing posters for the Thriller 3D film, etc. it sounds like his plate was more than full professionally. Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him. Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
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Your whole post makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah where is the general outrage at Murray? Come on media, it's about time they reported objectively for once.
 
Neeve said:
I've already posted my opinions on the TINI thread but I just wanted to agree with some stuff here. I think everyone deserves to have their opinion respected.



:clapping:



:better:
I'm going to see it too.



Well said. In all honesty, I don't know how anyone can say his thinness was not related to his death. Michael had never been that skinny - not in Bad, not in Thriller. And anyway, being thin in your 20s is not the same as being that thin in your 50s.
My support for TINI is so the truth can be found. I'm not looking to attack anyone, I just want answers. Personally I won't be handing out fliers because it's not the way I want to go about it, and also I think the campaign has been misinterpreted by a lot of people (including some who have joined) so I'm not aligning myself too closely with it, but the follower fans have my full support.
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I disagree with you. Michael has been that skinny before, to me. See, we all have different perceptions and views. And the reason some may say his weight had no bearing is becuz it was still up to a COMPETENT doctor to take that into consideration everytime he administered that drug...and that also goes for if Michael was GAINING weight. It was his job to take that into account. This doctor didn't do that. That's negligence...again, heavy or skinny. And Michael died from acute propofol intoxication which caused him to stop breathing. Had this doctor been in the room to reverse the effects and get Michael breathing, he'd be alive today....skinny, heavy, etc. My opinion only tho.
 
Trish said:
I'll ask Gary if we can post questions for the follower fans on the forum. I think it's high time that as fans we support our fellow fans and hear them out instead of automatically bashing them and/or discrediting them.
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:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
daisydaisy said:
Your whole post makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah where is the general outrage at Murray? Come on media, it's about time they reported objectively for once.
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Well, I wasn't exactly refering to the media there, but I guess we can include them, too.
 
wendy2004 said:
Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.

Feels like I'm having a deja vu moment, but I do have one question after listening to Kenny and crew. If Michael was calling people at 3-4 am in the morning at various times, WHEN exactly was Murray putting him to sleep with propfol? :blink: Was he really being put out for 8 hours? Doesn't sound like it.
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Wendy i love your posts, cause I feel a lot of the same things. Your last part about the phone calls does need to be asked and looked at.

i respect what the TINI is trying to do, sounds like they want justice and they are not trying to ask people to boycott.

I'm going to the movie, hopefully there will be some sort of closure for me, there may not be but i won't know until i go. Having been a fan for over 30 years, its been rough to even think of him being gone. :cry:

Trish said:
I'll ask Gary if we can post questions for the follower fans on the forum. I think it's high time that as fans we support our fellow fans and hear them out instead of automatically bashing them and/or discrediting them.
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:clapping: couldn't agree more, the fans need to stick together whether we agree or not.
 
Trish said:
I'll ask Gary if we can post questions for the follower fans on the forum. I think it's high time that as fans we support our fellow fans and hear them out instead of automatically bashing them and/or discrediting them.
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I think this is a great idea actually.

Yesterday I took the time to read all of their testimonies and I feel like I really understand more where they are coming from than I did before.
What would they have to benefit from all of this? They're in pain too and they just want the truth.

They were close to him in his last days, and he apparently confided in them, so I want to trust them.

I really wish other fans would reserve their judgment until they do the reading and try to understand things from their point of view.
Isn't this judgment the reason why they didn't include the rest of us in their actions?

"Please, please keep in mind that not all fans see eye to eye and had we opened this up for discussion, many would have attacked us for over exaggerating and seeking attention." (from one of the testimonies on the TINI site)

Just saying.
I'm waiting to cast judgment until I know more and until I see the film.
 
wendy2004 said:
What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay.
Even Michael Bush commented before how he had NEVER seen Michael bursting with so much creativity. Unfortunately, that creativity was a double-edged sword becuz it was a gift but also a curse as he couldn't shut if off. My opinion.


QUOTE]

This is the last thing I am going to say on this. I love all of you guys and I appreciate how civil this debate is and I would still like to hear answers to our questions from TINI crowd.

I think, you hit the nail on the head. This is a very accurate description of Michael. I have said it before, my experience is that Michael did what he wanted, when he wanted and the way he wanted. He was a creative genius who's inspirations came at all hours of the day and night. He was absolutely driven and it didn't matter how many times or by whom he was told that he didn't have to drive himself so hard, he couldn't stop. That is why, even though I appreciate so much the love and concern these fans have for him, I don't really think the talk about his weight is helpful. And I don't think it would matter how many of us tried to make him change his mind, he would do what he wanted to do. And another reminder, that Murray killed him, not Kenny or Travis or AEG.
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xthunderx2 said:
I agree with some of your post.....shoull we be angry towards Murray???,,,,,,Hell yes I am so angry at Murray there are no words to describe it...and yes Michael was a perfectionist and couldn't shut it off at will.....I also posted this question a few days ago in another post.....if Michael was up all night talking on the phone ...when did Murray put him under propofol???...this is a question that eats at me everyday...why did Murray continue to give Michael so much medication...this eats at me everyday......why did Murray wait so long befoe calling 911??...this eats at me everyday......Why didn;t Kenny or Randy stop the concerts if they saw Michael losing a drastic amount of weight in a short period of time.?????...This eats at me every day......so see they are all to blame......this is why the thisisnotit campaign must be supported.
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:better: hun try not to let those things eat at you. hopefully we will get answers and Murray and anyone else will finally get brought to justice.
 
Wendy I respect your post.

Me I want see the movie, for reason I want discuss here. For those who plan to see it, just keep an open mind, that's all they are asking. The follower fans have nothing to gain from this. They love Michael and are hurting deeply. They need our support. Hear them out. We don't have to agree with or even believe everything they say, but don't tear them down. Show them the respect they deserve, and yes they deserve it. They were the ones there trying to do everything in there power to help him. We have to respect them for that. What they are doing takes a lot of guts. They are very brave. You all have my full support.

We should submit question. Like Trish said, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
 
Memefan said:
Nonsense!

When will these people learn MJ's weight did not kill him? The freakin' drug did.

MJ does look VERY thin in the footage we have seen. Every single person (from Oprah to Billy Bush) who has seen the 12-minute preview has commented on how skinny MJ looked...so I don't know what cover up they are talking about.

Geez...they gonna make MJ's fans look ignorant.
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I agree.
 
meena76_4MJJ_4Ever said:
Wendy I respect your post.

Me I want see the movie, for reason I want discuss here. For those who plan to see it, just keep an open mind, that's all they are asking. The follower fans have nothing to gain from this. They love Michael and are hurting deeply. They need our support. Hear them out. We don't have to agree with or even believe everything they say, but don't tear them down. Show them the respect they deserve, and yes they deserve it. They were the ones there trying to do everything in there power to help him. We have to respect them for that. What they are doing takes a lot of guts. They are very brave. You all have my full support.

We should submit question. Like Trish said, there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
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:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
callmerose said:
So, if these fans spoke to him and tried their best to convince him to take care of himself and it didn't work, what could have been done? What did he say to them when they expressed their concerns? Did he shrug them off? Did he say he was feeling pressured? More info please! Michael was very strong willed. I am not clear yet that anybody could have made him do anything different. But I would like to hear the fans that spoke with him regularly tell us how he reacted to their concerns. I think the idea of an interview with these fans would be great. Maybe a live chat or something, so we can ask these kind of questions.
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Great questions, callmerose. I'd love to hear the answers to those, as well. :yes: And I'd like to know how soon were those concerns expressed? The concerts were announced in March and the 50 shows sold out 2 weeks later. Did anyone say Michael, what are doing? 50 shows? Are you sure you can handle that? Was he happy about it all in March? In April? In May? Why only in June did he bring up the issue of 10 shows versus 50 after so many weeks?
 
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I do not trust the LAPD to give any justice to Michael's case. Who is the DA dealing with the case now? Wrong was done and we need to know the truth. Michael always becomes dehydrated during shows and had to be hydrated during some of them. He expends so much energy during rehearsals and shows.
He was unable to sleep, maybe because he was so stressed about the shows and pressured into doing 50 bloody shows instead of 10.
We need to listen to what others have to say and then we may have a better insite into certain things leading up to Michael's death.
Even in some of Michael's pic which were taken before the rehearsals showed him to be very skinny.
He died of multiple sedatives and Propofol administered by that killer doctor. Michael did not want to die he wanted his Kids to see him perform.
If they do not charge someone soon then this case will be left hanging for some time to come.
Information needs to start coming out soon.
I intend seeing the film.
 
all this tit for tat on his health does not bring Michael back...it can be debated to death....dont change a thing

it just forms the soil that helps stain his legacy.............imo campaigning for the media to stop calling him J.a.c.k.o would be a great accomplish that would honor Michael
 
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well the civility and respect for one another just went out this thread!

i am sure they are analyzing MJs weight from the countless years they have followed, supported, loved, and watch this wonderful man.
 
Michael looked just as thin as he was in the In The Closet video and the Bad era. I think people are forgetting Michael had put on a few pounds during the History era.
 
Rasta Pasta said:
all this tit for tat on his health does not bring Michael back...it can be debated to death....dont change a thing

it just forms the soil that helps stain his legacy.............imo campaigning for the media to stop calling him J.a.c.k.o would be a great accomplish that would honor Michael
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i really don't think there is anything we can do to diminish the TII film.

i also think this campaign isn't going to stain in any negative light on MJ.

i think these fans merely want accountability. we all should want that.

but i totally respect your point of view. we can agree to disagree.

and yes... nothing will bring Michael back. if there is one common thing we have in this 1+ billion fan base is that ..... ALL WE WANT IS MJ BACK:better:
 
wendy2004 said:
Like I said when this all started, people should have been careful about saying who did or didn't care...becuz no one really knew WHO was doing or saying what behind the scenes to Michael.
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The accusations are really what bother me. People who were friends and co-workers of Michael's are being accused of some pretty evil things, and I'd say letting a friend die simply because you are going to profit from it is a pretty EVIL thing to accuse someone of. Accusing people without proof is what the evil really appears to be here.

None of us were with Michael 24/7 or were privy to all his conversations with others. The only contact those fans really had was Karen. And only becuz she communicated with them did some fans give her a "pass" as being "the only one who tried to help". Had it not been for that, I'm sure Karen, too would have been painted as an uncaring lackey who ignored ish to get paid. And I'm not saying NO ONE falls into that category...just saying. Point is we had NO idea who ALL else tried to step in or who DID step in. It was kinda wrong to paint EVERYONE with the broad "uncaring" brush, IMHO, from the get-go.
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This is what bothers me too. Michael worked with people who appear to of loved him, ( like Kenny and Travis,) so accusing them of neglecting Michael and letting him die is to assign evil motives to them. I find THAT evil.

To say people are covering up now is an easy excuse, imo, for some getting caught wrong. Others MAY have cared. These fans simply did not know. How could they know?
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Why would Michael's friends and co-workers go around defending themselves from the get-go anyway? Had they done that, THAT would've been perceived as guilt, and you can bet the accusations would've been exactly the same.

Becuz these ppl didn't all rush out to defend themeselves months ago cuz a group of fans were upset doesn't HAVE to mean there's a sudden cover up. That can be someone's perception and they are entitled to it, doesn't make it the truth. I feel we are NOW hearing about it becuz these ppl are doing promotion for the film and sure, they are aware about the talk about Michael's health. I still haven't heard any of them say they thought MIchael was near death.
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Lots of good points.

What they've described is what some of us suspected...that Michael was driven...and not concerned with eating...altho AWARE of his health...even assuring Kenny that he was okay. Yes, I believe Kenny.
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I do too, because I think he loved Michael and didn't have evil motives like some have tried to say.

And saying that the people around Mchael DID care enuf to broach the subject with him about his health or weight and he continued to live his life as he pleased doesn't necessarily mean ppl are blaming Michael for his demise becuz AGAIN, MIchael's weight did not kill him.
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Exactly.

Michael being unable to sleep contributed to Michael's death, IMO. Michael calling ppl on the phone at 3am with wonderful ideas (instead of sleeping) is what killed Michael. And whether it was for TII or some other production, does anyone honestly think that was going to stop? Whether it was 10 shows, 30, or 50...does anyone believe his creative drive would have been less becuz the number of shows...that he would have been able to shut it off at-will. A perfectionist can obssess over ONE thing. That's simply how they are. He passed out for the HBO One Night Only show and that was ONE show he had to prepare for. So come on now. Let's be real and honest with ourselves for just a moment. Michael is not here anymore becuz of someone's screw up...intentional or flagrant, at least that's what the facts say thus far.

Propofol and a negligent doctor who didn't monitor him properly killed Michael. And that could have happened EVEN if Michael was 200 pounds and the picture of health. Pump propofol AND benzos into anyone improperly and without proper monitoring and resusitation and they will die. Healthy, sick, fat, skinny, drug addicted or clean. Whether Michael was 108 pounds, 136 pounds or 160 pounds, if he stopped breathing and no one was around to assist him, he could not survive. Point blank. Where is the outrage for Murray letting him die??! Even if you believe he killed Michael on purpose, hired by AEG or whoever...where's the outrage against HIM? He didn't have to do it. He could have said NO. He didn't. It feels like people are giving him a free pass and wanna make a big deal about stuff that's typical Michael behavior. Even if you believe Murray is a stooge, where's the anger for his participation? Something is off with that to me. And that's all Imma say on it.
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So many good points!
 
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