Reuters: Michael Jackson Fans Says Film Covers Up Grim Truth

[mjjfan4ever]

Thanks mjjfan4ever. That was really well said. However, it must be noted that Michael being thin did play a role in his death. It pharmacologically correct that the amount of Propofol or any drug for that matter needed must decrease as a person's weight decreases. If Michael had really been at a sound healthy weight, the effects may have been less tragic.

yea... you have a point. I heard this line of reasoning from someone else.

I mean all of this is so complex.

So why can't these fans that saw MJ daily question and present their concerns even now?

the medical aspects, MJs health, AEG, SONY, Thome Thome, etc... everything is so complex and complicated.

 

[PrincessMichaela]

It's important to read the Reuters article carefully. These fans are NOT callling for a boycott of the movie. They are asking that people watch the film with open-minds. Being open-minded is a GOOD thing? Isn't it?

The article says THIS:

They say they became so concerned about Jackson's health that on June 21, four days before his death, they wrote to him asking him to stop the tour if he was not up to it.

"It is our wish to help people understand where the responsibilities lie, pertaining to Michael Jackson's passing, in the hope that if they choose to watch the film, they will do so with critical eyes," the group said in a written statement."

I think people don't really understand what the "campaign" is about. No one's claiming conspiracy or anything. They're just saying his appearance and actions were extremely worrying and everyone involved ignored it and then said he was fine. They just want an answer for why that was.

 

[Autumn II]

I agree... I think honestly the fact this Reuters carried this does say something. Honestly, I was surprised.

I hope in time the truth will come out.

I plan to see the movie several times.

Reuters is THE respected international news agency. It is in NO sense a tabloid, and they check their facts carefully. I appreciated that the article was balanced and represented various viewpoints. If the fans' viewpoint was not credible, they would not have run the article.

Please, everyone, read the article carefully. The fans are not calling for a boycott of the movie, or Sony, or AEG, at all. They are asking that those who choose to view the movie do so with open minds.

 

[Autumn II]

n/m edited.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

boo go to the movie for michael

sooo going to the movie to support MJ.

and I will do what the "follower fans" are asking.

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

Actually, they have not lost "a ton of money." They are co-producing the TII movie with Sony, and the box-office estimates are looking like they will reap significant profits.

They will recoup something for sure, but that still won't come close to the profit they would've made had the concerts gone on.

Anyway, the bulk of the profits (90%) will go to MJ's estate, benefiting Katherine and the kids.

As far as ticket refunds are concerned, many fans chose to keep the tickets as souvenirs, and the losses were not what they would have been if the concerts were cancelled.

And I just don't think there is any proof that AEG would invest 30 million in the first place, only to HOPE for the whole project to fail. That isn't how people do business. If they were looking for it to fail, I don't think they would've bothered to invest in the first place.

They will come out far ahead financially when all is said-and-done.

How so? I think the concerts were supposed to make $450 million. How they gonna make more than that?

 

[billyblues]

I'll repeat what I have already said in another topic: I have 2 close friends who are AS THIN AS MICHAEL and they're HEALTHY AS ONE CAN BE.

And yes, they've been like that since like...ever. Both are alive and well, thankfully. So deal with it, weight issues weren't the cause of his death.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

Reuters is THE respected international news agency. It is in NO sense a tabloid, and they check their facts carefully. I appreciated that the article was balanced and represented various viewpoints. If the fans' viewpoint was not credible, they would not have run the article.

Please, everyone, read the article carefully. The fans are not calling for a boycott of the movie, or Sony, or AEG, at all. They are asking that those who choose to view the movie do so with open minds.

Yes, there are ONLY TWO respected news sources.... REUTERS and AP.

 

[callmerose]

Micheal was 120 lb's during the making of the Thriller music video, as John Landis' wife spoke about that in an interview. At the time of his death he was 136lb's. So far no one from the LAPD or LA County Morgue has denied his weight was 136 lb's. If so they would have denied it the very same day it leaked.

His weight didn't kill him. It was Dr Murray.

Good post. Michael has been very thin at various times throughout his life. Even more so than right before his passing if the reported autopsy weight is correct. His weight loss in the months before his death caused concern amongst the fans who were close to him at that time. I commend them for being concerned and for communicating that to him in every way that they could.
But, given the fact that Michael did not die from being too thin, I am unclear about what they want to accomplish. If we keep an open mind and it appears that he was too thin during the movie, what then? It seems kind of like looking at the Beat It video or the Oprah interview and saying, gee he was really thin. What is accomplished? I have gone to their web site and am still not clear on that. So, please, could somebody explain to me what will be accomplished if we all agree that Michael was really thin in the movie? Is it vindication that those fans are looking for?

 

[Cris123]

I'm not going to respond to anyone on particular here...those who decided to open their eyes for justice did it already..those who continue to be in their bubble, cheering KO and RP, will do so regardless of the evidence.

I can only say bravo, Reuters knows the fans who were WITNESSES to michael's last days are credible..the group is big and the testimonies consistent..and it only makes sense for anyone who pauses just a bit and uses his/her brain

I will say one more time...I WILL go see the movie, several times...I already decided it will bring me down again...but I, as you who oppose TINI, want to see Michael one last time. But at the same time, I KNOW what I know and saw and I still remember Michael's words to me...Can you say the same?

 

[xthunderx2]

well I for one have downloaded the fliers from the thisisnotit websight and i will be passing them out at my cinema.....I agree with The Follower fans.....I have read their campaign and I support it...The truth has to come out.....Kenny Ortega in his own words just a couple of days ago said....Michael was thin...Michael didn't want to eat....well if they saw all this going on..then they should of put a stop to the shows themselves....Michael wouldn't because he didn't want to disappoint anyone.....AEG saw Michael and dollar signs...so I will see this movie ..it will tear me up...but I will be watching with a watchful eye.....I wont be watching it like Iam at a concert...I have seen and heard many fans ...like yeah ...hurray....ok get excited about the concert this is fine...but jeez this is going tobe a sad thing..almost like fans living Michael's last days....the sad part about this is...we know the ending of the movie already.

I support this campaign fully....I have spoken a follower fan and this tragic event that happened with Michael has practically physically drained this poor person......Imagine seeing Michael only days before his death and begging him to please dont do the concerts if he doesnt feel he can...then days later he dies...and you know that more should of been done to protect him..because he himself told you things...things that he was afraid of or things that didnt seem right to him......these are the words the Follower fans are trying to get out there...Michael's words...not stuff they made up.....they have no reason to lie...they just want Michael's voice heard...finally ...his voice ..not kenny..not Randy....but Michael's....and as a Michael Jackson fan for over 30years I want justice for him/

 

[JAMTDtt]

It's not just about being thin. You can be thin and healthy. Yes that is right. However, if you go to a doctor he will give you a lesser dosage and concentration of a particular drug than a person twice your size. It's because drug metabolism may vary with weight. If you are very thin your dosage must be adjusted. Let us say Michael was healthy and thin, the dosage should still not be the same for an average weight person because 'technically' he is underweight. If Michael was unhealthy and too thin, most definitely the dosage should have been decreased, because his system would not be able to survive the full wrath of propofol, midazolam and lorazepam. In my humble opinion, either way, healthy or unhealthy, him being thin and the dosages given, did play some role. I support the campaign but everyone here has a right to their opinion.

 

[KingOfPop1]

Good post. Michael has been very thin at various times throughout his life. Even more so than right before his passing if the reported autopsy weight is correct. His weight loss in the months before his death caused concern amongst the fans who were close to him at that time. I commend them for being concerned and for communicating that to him in every way that they could.
But, given the fact that Michael did not die from being too thin, I am unclear about what they want to accomplish. If we keep an open mind and it appears that he was too thin during the movie, what then? It seems kind of like looking at the Beat It video or the Oprah interview and saying, gee he was really thin. What is accomplished? I have gone to their web site and am still not clear on that. So, please, could somebody explain to me what will be accomplished if we all agree that Michael was really thin in the movie? Is it vindication that those fans are looking for?

Maybe it would be a good idea for MJJC to interview one of the fans that were around Michael at the time and ask them what they are trying to achieve with their campaign?

 

[Cris123]

well I for one have downloaded the fliers from the thisisnotit websight and i will be passing them out at my cinema.....I agree with The Follower fans.....I have read their campaign and I support it...The truth has to come out.....Kenny Ortega in his own words just a couple of days ago said....Michael was thin...Michael didn't want to eat....well if they saw all this going on..then they should of put a stop to the shows themselves....Michael wouldn't because he didn't want to disappoint anyone.....AEG saw Michael and dollar signs...so I will see this movie ..it will tear me up...but I will be watching with a watchful eye.....I wont be watching it like Iam at a concert...I have seen and heard many fans ...like yeah ...hurray....ok get excited about the concert this is fine...but jeez this is going tobe a sad thing..almost like fans living Michael's last days....the sad part about this is...we know the ending of the movie already.

I support this campaign fully....I have spoken a follower fan and this tragic event that happened with Michael has practically physically drained this poor person......Imagine seeing Michael only days before his death and begging him to please dont do the concerts if he doesnt feel he can...then days later he dies...and you know that more should of been done to protect him..because he himself told you things...things that he was afraid of or things that didnt seem right to him......these are the words the Follower fans are trying to get out there...Michael's words...not stuff they made up.....they have no reason to lie...they just want Michael's voice heard...finally ...his voice ..not kenny..not Randy....but Michael's....and as a Michael Jackson fan for over 30years I want justice for him/

Oh my God, thank you!! This is saying everything...

 

[MJJOS]

I respect everyone's opinion, I just want to add to the topic.

I am putting my faith here in the coroner's report. Looks can be very deceiving, but these guys have done a thorough examination on Michael's body.

I have Cystic Fibrosis, and I hate eating. My arms and legs are like sticks. However, I am not underweight. I am actually probably the healthiest patient on my hospitals cf department. I have had tons of bad chets infections, IV treatments and worse, but I am very healthy.

So my point is, obviously while it can't be given 100% assurance, I believe MJ was healthy. Just because he looked thin, it does not mean he was going to die (I have been thinner than MJ for over 20 years). I like many of you this was just a horrific accident with his pain meds, and nothing more.

This is not it, I respect your time and effort, I am sure you have the greatest of intentions, bringing justice to those who would harm Michael, I have seen your site, read your articles, but it just can't be considered gold. The fact is, this is a time when MJ needs to be remembered in a positive light. Nothing you will do will bring Michael back, nothing will change, and quite frankly I believe the public does not need to be drawn to this kind of attention. There are too many factors that not even you guys who saw him at rehearsals can be aware of. I would have no problem with you promoting your site and point of view, but nothing good is going to come from you interfering on a night when we all get to catch a glimpse of what Michael wanted to show to the world. It is a night to remember the Michael as the great singer/dancer/write/performer he was, not as someone who was in a bad state of health who took on more than he could handle. That is how he would want to be remembered, can we respect that?

 

[mjjfan4ever]

I'm not going to respond to anyone on particular here...those who decided to open their eyes for justice did it already..those who continue to be in their bubble, cheering KO and RP, will do so regardless of the evidence.

I can only say bravo, Reuters knows the fans who were WITNESSES to michael's last days are credible..the group is big and the testimonies consistent..and it only makes sense for anyone who pauses just a bit and uses his/her brain

I will say one more time...I WILL go see the movie, several times...I already decided it will bring me down again...but I, as you who oppose TINI, want to see Michael one last time. But at the same time, I KNOW what I know and saw and I still remember Michael's words to me...Can you say the same?

I hope this wasn't a response to my post about "being surprised reuters" carrying the story.

Fact is that I was surprised. To me.... now more than ever it gives more credence to what the "follower fans" have been saying TO ME.... because I have a great deal of respect for Reuters.

I DO SUPPORT THE FOLLOWER FANS IN THEIR QUEST FOR THE TRUTH.

They are not asking people to boycott TII movie. They are simply saying PEOPLE that turned a blind eye or did not listen to them needs to be held accountable ... if not in a court of law .... then by their conscience.

 

[shimar]

Maybe it would be a good idea for MJJC to interview one of the fans that were around Michael at the time and ask them what they are trying to achieve with their campaign?

Sounds like a good idea. I think it'll at least help us understand what they saw, who they saw around MJ, etc.

 

[Autumn II]

n/m. edited.

 

[shimar]

WOW - :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:

I respect everyone's opinion, I just want to add to the topic.

I am putting my faith here in the coroner's report. Looks can be very deceiving, but these guys have done a thorough examination on Michael's body.

I have Cystic Fibrosis, and I hate eating. My arms and legs are like sticks. However, I am not underweight. I am actually probably the healthiest patient on my hospitals cf department. I have had tons of bad chets infections, IV treatments and worse, but I am very healthy.

So my point is, obviously while it can't be given 100% assurance, I believe MJ was healthy. Just because he looked thin, it does not mean he was going to die (I have been thinner than MJ for over 20 years). I like many of you this was just a horrific accident with his pain meds, and nothing more.

This is not it, I respect your time and effort, I am sure you have the greatest of intentions, bringing justice to those who would harm Michael, I have seen your site, read your articles, but it just can't be considered gold. The fact is, this is a time when MJ needs to be remembered in a positive light. Nothing you will do will bring Michael back, nothing will change, and quite frankly I believe the public does not need to be drawn to this kind of attention. There are too many factors that not even you guys who saw him at rehearsals can be aware of. I would have no problem with you promoting your site and point of view, but nothing good is going to come from you interfering on a night when we all get to catch a glimpse of what Michael wanted to show to the world. It is a night to remember the Michael as the great singer/dancer/write/performer he was, not as someone who was in a bad state of health who took on more than he could handle.

 

[Autumn II]

Maybe it would be a good idea for MJJC to interview one of the fans that were around Michael at the time and ask them what they are trying to achieve with their campaign?

That's an EXCELLENT idea, hearing it in their own words.

 

[rickd]

For me, if it was as simple as arresting Dr Murray, that wouldve been done sometime ago. I'm open to these fans, they aren't after anything & they cared.

Why people wanna bash them is beyond me.

 

[LauraLovesMJ]

It's not just about being thin. You can be thin and healthy. Yes that is right. However, if you go to a doctor he will give you a lesser dosage and concentration of a particular drug than a person twice your size. It's because drug metabolism may vary with weight. If you are very thin your dosage must be adjusted. Let us say Michael was healthy and thin, the dosage should still not be the same for an average weight person because 'technically' he is underweight. If Michael was unhealthy and too thin, most definitely the dosage should have been decreased, because his system would not be able to survive the full wrath of Propofol, midazolam and lorazepam. Either way, healthy or unhealthy, him being thin and the dosages given, did play a role.

If the wrong dosage of propofol was given because MJ had lost weight, then the responsibility STILL lies with Murray, because as MJ's doctor, he should've been monitoring his weight and adjusting the dosage accordingly. He also should've checked MJ's skin to make sure he wasn't dehydrated after a long night of rehearsals, because dehydration too can cause a higher concentration of drugs in the blood.

 

[shimar]

If he had not been so stressed about the concerts, he might not have needed/wanted the Propofol.

I hate to disagree with you, but I think that adds into the "addict" story the media wants to push.

Dr. Murray lethally injected MJ with not just propofol, but with a myriad of powerful sedatives, muscle relaxers that KILLED HIM. And the amounts could knock out an elephant.

MJ always had trouble sleeping. He had an anesthesiologist with him on the HIStory tour as well. So the stress was always a factor for him.

Regardless of any Propfol use - Dr. Murray KILLED HIM by giving him a ton of more medicines that should've never ever been given in those amounts, and mixed the way they were as well.

 

[Gottobethere]

I just read all the followers testimony and i have to admit i was very harsh on them the first time i heard about the this is not it site. I think we should all read the testimony of these people. They were very close to Michael, on speaking terms with him and i have no doubt they all loved him. They were the ones who knew what was going on with Michael while we were all anticipating what the concert would be like. They met him, saw him and spoke to him in the days before the 25th and some of them spoke to him hours before it happened in fact if there claim are true Michael even tried to call one of them on that last night of rehearsal. I myself do not know what to think but i think everyone here should at least read what they have to say.

 

[JAMTDtt]

If the wrong dosage of propofol was given because MJ had lost weight, then the responsibility STILL lies with Murray, because as MJ's doctor, he should've been monitoring his weight and adjusting the dosage accordingly. He also should've checked MJ's skin to make sure he wasn't dehydrated after a long night of rehearsals, because dehydration too can cause a higher concentration of drugs in the blood.

I agree with all that you are saying. I'm just stating what I know as well. I do believe Murray has let down many doctors with his judgements and management of the situation.

I'm gonna see the movie too. I think what the follower fans are trying to say is, just to look at the movie carefully.

 

[Autumn II]

n/m. edited.

 

[mjjfan4ever]

For me, if it was as simple as arresting Dr Murray, that wouldve been done sometime ago. I'm open to these fans, they aren't after anything & they cared.

Why people wanna bash them is beyond me.

I agree.

I keep thinking ... if I was one of those "follower fans" beyond grieving MJ's passing... I would some how feel so guilt ridden. I would sit here asking myself "WHAT COULD I HAVE DONE MORE to help MJ".
I can't imagine what the "follower fans" are dealing with. The grief and pain is tough enough for deal with... but then to have to deal with a BACKLASH from other fans because they are raising their concerns.... or feeling guilty for something that was out of my control? when no one would listen.

We all need to realize WE are on the SAME TEAM.

To the follower fans.... THANK YOU for being there for michael in those days.
THANK YOU FOR SHOWING SOME SORT OF CONCERN FOR HIS HEALTH WHEN OTHERS DIDN'T.
I am sorry for all that you are going through / have gone through.
Persevere for the truth.

And you are NOT alone.

 

[Neeve]

I've already posted my opinions on the TINI thread but I just wanted to agree with some stuff here. I think everyone deserves to have their opinion respected.

It's important to read the Reuters article carefully. These fans are NOT callling for a boycott of the movie. They are asking that people watch the film with open-minds. Being open-minded is a GOOD thing? Isn't it?

The article says THIS:

They say they became so concerned about Jackson's health that on June 21, four days before his death, they wrote to him asking him to stop the tour if he was not up to it.

"It is our wish to help people understand where the responsibilities lie, pertaining to Michael Jackson's passing, in the hope that if they choose to watch the film, they will do so with critical eyes," the group said in a written statement."

:clapping:

I'm not going to respond to anyone on particular here...those who decided to open their eyes for justice did it already..those who continue to be in their bubble, cheering KO and RP, will do so regardless of the evidence.

I can only say bravo, Reuters knows the fans who were WITNESSES to michael's last days are credible..the group is big and the testimonies consistent..and it only makes sense for anyone who pauses just a bit and uses his/her brain

I will say one more time...I WILL go see the movie, several times...I already decided it will bring me down again...but I, as you who oppose TINI, want to see Michael one last time. But at the same time, I KNOW what I know and saw and I still remember Michael's words to me...Can you say the same?

:better:
I'm going to see it too.

I don't want to speak for the follower fans, but I'll give my understanding of what they've been saying. They have indicated that the connection between Michael's thinness and his death was a general climate of neglect by those around him. Plus, they are saying that it was not only his weight that alarmed them, but his rapid and obvious weight-LOSS. If he was not in sufficiently good shape to perform in London, then regardless of the financial hit, he should have had the best medical care possible. There is also the fact, already mentioned, that the dosage of Propofol is calibrated according to a person's weight. The thinner a person is, the more critical an accurate dosage becomes. Therefore, I believe they are saying that those around Michael pushed him to work harder than he was able, stressed him more than he could tolerate, and it was a combination of these things that caused his death. If he had not been so stressed about the concerts, he might not have needed/wanted the Propofol. We can't know from his words. . he is not here to tell us. What I DO know is that these fans reported, on-the-record, seeing him shrink away, and that this much-loved man was not helped at a time when he really needed it. . . . . . I'm sure the followers could express it better, but that's my understanding of their position.

Well said. In all honesty, I don't know how anyone can say his thinness was not related to his death. Michael had never been that skinny - not in Bad, not in Thriller. And anyway, being thin in your 20s is not the same as being that thin in your 50s.
My support for TINI is so the truth can be found. I'm not looking to attack anyone, I just want answers. Personally I won't be handing out fliers because it's not the way I want to go about it, and also I think the campaign has been misinterpreted by a lot of people (including some who have joined) so I'm not aligning myself too closely with it, but the follower fans have my full support.

 

[daisydaisy]

I don't want to speak for the follower fans, but I'll give my understanding of what they've been saying. They have indicated that the connection between Michael's thinness and his death was a general climate of neglect by those around him. Plus, they are saying that it was not only his weight that alarmed them, but his rapid and obvious weight-LOSS. If he was not in sufficiently good shape to perform in London, then regardless of the financial hit, he should have had the best medical care possible. There is also the fact, already mentioned, that the dosage of Propofol is calibrated according to a person's weight. The thinner a person is, the more critical an accurate dosage becomes. Therefore, I believe they are saying that those around Michael pushed him to work harder than he was able, stressed him more than he could tolerate, and it was a combination of these things that caused his death. If he had not been so stressed about the concerts, he might not have needed/wanted the Propofol. We can't know from his words. . he is not here to tell us. What I DO know is that these fans reported, on-the-record, seeing him shrink away, and that this much-loved man was not helped at a time when he really needed it. . . . . . I'm sure the followers could express it better, but that's my understanding of their position.

I totally agree with your post and TINI. For propofol, weight is crucial for calculating dosages but ultimately, Murray should have seen with his own eyes over those last 6 weeks that Michael was losing weight and not administered the propofol. It's just a long series of poor clinical decisions and this breaks my heart so much.

 

[callmerose]

I just read all the followers testimony and i have to admit i was very harsh on them the first time i heard about the this is not it site. I think we should all read the testimony of these people. They were very close to Michael, on speaking terms with him and i have no doubt they all loved him. They were the ones who knew what was going on with Michael while we were all anticipating what the concert would be like. They met him, saw him and spoke to him in the days before the 25th and some of them spoke to him hours before it happened in fact if there claim are true Michael even tried to call one of them on that last night of rehearsal. I myself do not know what to think but i think everyone here should at least read what they have to say.

So, if these fans spoke to him and tried their best to convince him to take care of himself and it didn't work, what could have been done? What did he say to them when they expressed their concerns? Did he shrug them off? Did he say he was feeling pressured? More info please! Michael was very strong willed. I am not clear yet that anybody could have made him do anything different. But I would like to hear the fans that spoke with him regularly tell us how he reacted to their concerns. I think the idea of an interview with these fans would be great. Maybe a live chat or something, so we can ask these kind of questions.