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MJ Defaults in Raymone Bain Case ($44m)

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lilsusie said:
I know I'd sound silly if I ask this question but anyway, I'll ask.
Does MJ know about this lawsuit?
Normally, a legal letter will be sent to a defendant, but what if the defendant's address is changed and he didn't receive the letter? :shock:
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He definitely knows about it, but that doesn't mean he was properly served in the legal sense.
 
"Well, if a bunch of people that you wouldn't expect to normally say it are saying it, might that mean the criticism has merit?"

no. it just means that more people are worried. but that has no effect on the outcome.
 
WHES said:
This has nothing to do with anything other than this lawsuit. His not hiring an attorney to show up to court was not smart. Regardless of what happens he's creating for himself an unnecessary risk of losing 44 million dollars, which Bain had absolutely no chance at getting had someone showed up. No other information is needed.
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more info is always needed. we have no idea of what MJ did. and the media has a vendetta against. him. they will always present the darkest most negative light possible. we don't know what MJ is doing, behind closed doors. you're still forgetting, that there is a timetable that has not expired yet.

you and other people keep talking as if he has already lost the 44 million.

the old saying goes, 'it's not how you start, it's how you finish.'

so let's add the media influence and change this recipe, and the saying.

'it's not how you are perceived, it's how you finish.'

so far, no matter how he has been perceived vs. what's actually happening, he has finished unscathed.

and until he loses the 44 mil(if he loses it), i'm gunna wait and see. and, whatever the outcome, i'm still not gunna pass judgement.

i'm not gunna kill him for how he handles his own money, which is not my money, which is only money. especially since his track record is sterling.
 
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vncwilliam said:
"Well, if a bunch of people that you wouldn't expect to normally say it are saying it, might that mean the criticism has merit?"

no. it just means that more people are worried. but that has no effect on the outcome.
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True that.
:yes:

If you go into a panic, then it can mean that you're only seeing, or looking for, reasons to panic. But, what about looking for things that show there's no real reason to panic? That is also an option.

Look for the light at the end of the tunnel and you will find it. Just as some may feel that it is okay to be highly worried, it is also okay to be optimistic. It's all about which one you choose.

One will make you feel like crap, one will not. One will make it hard to find solutions. One will make it easier. It's all about which one you choose.
 
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vncwilliam said:
more info is always needed. we have no idea of what MJ did. and the media has a vendetta against. him. they will always present the darkest most negative light possible. we don't know what MJ is doing, behind closed doors. you're still forgetting, that there is a timetable that has not expired yet.

you and other people keep talking as if he has already lost the 44 million.

the old saying goes, 'it's not how you start, it's how you finish.'

so let's add the media influence and change this recipe, and the saying.

'it's not how you are perceived, it's how you finish.'

so far, no matter how he has been perceived vs. what's actually happening, he has finished unscathed.

and until he loses the 44 mil(if he loses it), i'm gunna wait and see. and, whatever the outcome, i'm still not gunna pass judgement.

i'm not gunna kill him for how he handles his own money, which is not my money, which is only money. especially since his track record is sterling.
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That fair, and you are right that he hasn't lost the money yet. Nor are we sure, or even know the likelihood that he will lose the 44 million. However, the chance of him losing that amount would have been 0, given the case, had an attorney just showed up.

Moreover, you're right, it's not my money, and really not my business. He can do with his time and money what he chooses. There are just some times where, as a fan, I wish he was surrounded by people more concerned with him and less concerned with themselves.
 
WHES said:
Well, if a bunch of people that you wouldn't expect to normally say it are saying it, might that mean the criticism has merit? I'm only talking from a legal perspective here. Someone in MJ's position should never allow this to happen. It's far too risky.
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If theres something to risk. WE nothing about the case apart from Bain wants $44m. Just because Michael has made a statement or whatever doesnt mean that he isnt aware of his position and what his next step will be.

We dont really even know what his position is so people need to bite their toungues and practice what they preach!
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
If theres something to risk. WE nothing about the case apart from Bain wants $44m. Just because Michael has made a statement or whatever doesnt mean that he isnt aware of his position and what his next step will be.

We dont really even know what his position is so people need to bite their toungues and practice what they preach!
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The point is that there now is something to risk. I have some experience with this stuff, I'm not just pulling this out of my tush.

Ok so it means he has to pay her?
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No. Not at this point.
 
WHES said:
He definitely knows about it, but that doesn't mean he was properly served in the legal sense.
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Thx.:) Since he knows about it, it doesn't make sense that he would not hire a lawyer to represent him to sort this out. I don't wish to see this money hungry bit*h walk away with 44million of MJ's money!!!! :no:
 
WHES said:
The point is that there now is something to risk. I have some experience with this stuff, I'm not just pulling this out of my tush.
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You have experience with what? You dont know any more than us. You dont know anything about what Michaels camp knows or is planning to do. Again everyone is making assumptions based on Bains complaints. This is still one sided. No matter what anyone says, we do not know what Michael knows.

For all we know he fired her for trying to steal money from him and he can prove 100% that he doesnt owe a dime. Then what?

A few people who know nothing have big mouths and are hypocrites now attacking Michael. Now that is stupid.
 
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Oh sorry, whats going on?

oh right that lawsuit......

She needs to back OFF
 
What's making it seem so strange is the way that she is approaching it. She's approaching it in several different ways:

1) As a Co-Founder/President/COO

2) As an employee

3) As a service provider

And, although she did invest a lot of time and energy, and should be compensated for the work that she has done, does she really feel that she is entitled to $44mm as if she's also invested large sums of money?

I would think that the person that was putting up the majority of the hard earned cash was MJ, and not her. After all, it is his life work that is generating the millions of dollars. $44mm is one pop? That's the type of money that he's able to make at any given time.

Would she be making this amount on her own without being associated with MJ? Want to bet the answer is no?
 
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AllForMJ said:
What's making it seems so strange is the way that she is approaching it. She's approaching it in several different ways:

1) As a Co-Founder/President/COO

2) As an employee

3) As a service provider
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then it's safe to say that the whole process is possibly not following the rules. or, standard proceedure.

and that something fishy might be going on from her end.
 
While some are up in here poo pooing on Michael, let's ask ourselves this one question...

Of all the lawsuits that have been brought against Michael, how many of them have we ever seen him not respond to? Don't we always see a response from Michael's lawyers within a few weeks after seeing the initial lawsuit against him? Doesn't Michael always respond to lawsuits? So far, we have never seen him do this before.

I will tell you what I believe. I believe that Michael was never served. I believe that the deliverer of that summons never got through the gates, let alone getting to Michael to serve him. I also believe that if it is true that the security ran this guy off from the gates, it is highly possible that they reacted before they even knew who he was or what his business was. What I am saying is these security people run people off so much, they probaby never gave the person much of a chance to say who he was. After all, if Michael was expecting someone, he would have informed the security.

So I think that Michael was never served. He probably was informed about the lawsuit later on by someone who saw it online. Upon finding out, he probably spoke with his lawyers. Mike probably decided that this issue was too much to deal with right before leaving for the tour. Knowing that she could not go forth without having served him first, he probably made the decision to lay low and leave for London and let Raymone Bain sweat it out until he returns to deal with it at a time more convenient for him. And IMO, this is perfectly ok. He is working the law in his favor.

Now as far as Raymone goes, she wants the judge to believe that her runner was turned away after trying to serve Michael so therefore, her claim should be granted under default. But I really don't think this is gonna fly because the law that was posted here says that the defendant has to have been SERVED. She is mad right now...she feels like Mike is avoiding her. So she is gonna take a chance and go forth and see what happens.

My prediction....I guarantee you that when she shows up in court on the date that is set for her hearing where she has to prove that she is owed this amount of money, Michael's lawyers will be right there to make his case that he doesn't owe her this money and this thing will take a nose dive from $44 mil to down around $2 mil and Michael will pay it. And the media will never tell us what happened. And when Michael returns in the Fall, he won't even have to deal with it.
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
You have experience with what? You dont know any more than us. You dont know anything about what Michaels camp knows or is planning to do. Again everyone is making assumptions based on Bains complaints. This is still one sided. No matter what anyone says, we do not know what Michael knows.

For all we know he fired her for trying to steal money from him and he can prove 100% that he doesnt owe a dime. Then what?

A few people who know nothing have big mouths and are hypocrites now attacking Michael. Now that is stupid.
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I don't think you understand. If a default judgment is entered against MJ he can't prove anything. He is, for all intents and purposes, legally conceding the facts as presented by Raymone Bain. There will be no trial, other than a challenge presented that there is a lack of jurisdiction or that he was improperly served.

So I think that Michael was never served. He probably was informed about the lawsuit later on by someone who saw it online. Upon finding out, he probably spoke with his lawyers. Mike probably decided that this issue was too much to deal with right before leaving for the tour. Knowing that she could not go forth without having served him first, he probably made the decision to lay low and leave for London and let Raymone Bain sweat it out until he returns to deal with it at a time more convenient for him. And IMO, this is perfectly ok. He is working the law in his favor.
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But here's the deal. If MJ would haev just had someone show up, he would still be able to file a motion to dismiss based on improper service and he would do so without conceding the facts as presented by Bain. MJ very likely didn't need to be there himself, so all it would have taken was a few phone calls to an attorney.

My prediction....I guarantee you that when she shows up in court on the date that is set for her hearing where she has to prove that she is owed this amount of money, Michael's lawyers will be right there to make his case that he doesn't owe her this money and this thing will take a nose dive from $44 mil to down around $2 mil and Michael will pay it. And the media will never tell us what happened. And when Michael returns in the Fall, he won't even have to deal with it.
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This is the exact point, though. As stated above, Bain will not need to prove anything regarding the contract if a default judgment is officially entered against MJ. She wins the case and gets the full 44 million, provided she can show he was served properly and that there is personal jurisdiction when she ends up in a California court seeking enforcement of the DC judgment.
 
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Okay, I think I need to protest outside her office here in DC. Wasn't she fired during the trial and then re-hired?:unsure: and she did not do $44 mill dollars worth of work!:scratch: Why do people try to get over?
 
WHES said:
But here's the deal. If MJ would haev just had someone show up, he would still be able to file a motion to dismiss based on improper service and he would do so without conceding the facts as presented by Bain. MJ very likely didn't need to be there himself, so all it would have taken was a few phone calls to an attorney.
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Improper service? She didn't serve him improperly. She did it the right way by sending the runner to serve him the papers. So Michael could not have made any such claim. By laying low, he is buying himself time. People duck servers all the time. Michael isn't the first to do this. And people wouldn't be doing it if there were not some benefit of doing so. That benefit is dealing with the situation when YOU want to and not when the plaintiff wants you to.

Like I said, I believe Michael's lawyers will show up when her next hearing comes around and this thing will be all over. But she will not see him in court. He will be on stage in London with his fans.
 
bnd90 said:
I'll be there in 5 minutes with my shot gun and army gear :mello:
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Hehe! No Violence and I'll be your back up cause Ms. Bain might roll hard. She is from DC and all..lol.

But ummm why 44 millions? that's what I don't understand and why do you wait sooooo many years to sue! If you saw that you did not get paid withint 2 months of your service..you should have filed suit then?:mello:

there she be a law for people wanting to sue people 4-5 years after the fact! lol! Like Ola Ray! Why sue now? when you should have done that back in 84? and video girls only get paid once..so what was up with that? lol.
 
AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
Improper service? She didn't serve him improperly. She did it the right way by sending the runner to serve him the papers. So Michael could not have made any such claim. By laying low, he is buying himself time. People duck servers all the time. Michael isn't the first to do this. And people wouldn't be doing it if there were not some benefit of doing so. That benefit is dealing with the situation when YOU want to and not when the plaintiff wants you to.

Like I said, I believe Michael's lawyers will show up when her next hearing comes around and this thing will be all over. But she will not see him in court. He will be on stage in London with his fans.
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Sorry, based on lack of service of process. Again, I'm not sure of the Cali law on service, and I'm not sure on whether he was served in any of the three manners set out in the FRCP. Still, the point remains that MJ is conceding the facts of the case to Bain if an official judgment is entered. He then has 44 million riding on an argument that he wasn't properly served.

Also, just to clarify, MJ still does have time to file a motion to set aside the default judgment. I believe it's somewhere between 2-4 weeks he has to do it. That would require hiring a lawyer, however.
 
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AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
While some are up in here poo pooing on Michael, let's ask ourselves this one question...

Of all the lawsuits that have been brought against Michael, how many of them have we ever seen him not respond to? Don't we always see a response from Michael's lawyers within a few weeks after seeing the initial lawsuit against him? Doesn't Michael always respond to lawsuits? So far, we have never seen him do this before.

My prediction....I guarantee you that when she shows up in court on the date that is set for her hearing where she has to prove that she is owed this amount of money, Michael's lawyers will be right there to make his case that he doesn't owe her this money and this thing will take a nose dive from $44 mil to down around $2 mil and Michael will pay it. And the media will never tell us what happened. And when Michael returns in the Fall, he won't even have to deal with it.
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Well said and I agree 100%. If history is anything to go by, this is how it'll play out.
 
I'm sure that a lot of fans are stressin' this far more than the man himself.

"He is very serious about his music," she said. "When you are a creative person and the creative juices are flowing again and you're about to embark on new projects, you want to make sure your organization is running smoothly."

These and other changes, including hiring New York-based entertainment lawyer L. Londell McMillan to handle his business affairs, are the first of a "sweeping restructuring of his personal and business affairs," said Bain. 2006

Londell McMillan has done well for Michael and is hopefully still on his payroll.

If so, where's that darn broom...

One last SWEEP...out with the old and in with the new era Fa Real now

:D
 
Someone mentioned that it was possible that Michael's bodyguards wouldn't allow the lawsuit to be served to Michael and that could be the reason why a response wasn't filed. Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!! The courts will not except that. The person who served the lawsuit papers don't have to give them directly to Michael. They can give them to an employee. Also they can serve the paper to anyone who is at the home of the defendent. Also Raymone's lawyers could have mailed a copy to Michael, but they are not required to do so. What Michael can do is file a motion to stop the judgement if he feels that he was not served properly and the Judge can take that into consideration. But as it stands, if Michael did not file an answer to the court, he must pay Raymone $44 million dollars. And we are not talking about a settlement. Michael must pay her $44 million dollars if the judge rules in her favor and 10 times out of 10, if the defendent doesn't have a credible excuse, the court will rule in favor of the plaintiff....
 
michaelsson said:
right lol i dont care how much bank i got 44million dollars aint leavin jarods account witout a fight
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LMAO.. U got that right... I would've been down there infront of a judge before he printer ink dried on those papers.

Then I would've served Ms. Bain with some papers right then and there that said: Orie, hereby states that she will burn every last dollar in the bank and other things that can be cashed in for $, b4 she lets you get $44million, let alone, she will host a FREE concert just to spite you and you will get NOTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

On the real, Michael needs to man up face the bull head on, and deal with this or otherwise he will be shucking and jiving across that stage for Ms. Bain and not becuase he feels like touring again..
 
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