lets talk abortion!

wow- this is a very touchy subjec. I feel that I am not here to judge anyone on their personal decisions- that's not my job to do. I'm a Christian and I feel that I personally don't plan on having an abortion, but what would me calling someone else a murderer do in the long run???

If someone asks, I'll tell my opinion.
I do feel that alot of ppl who have abortions would have had kids that they didn't even want and that would be a total mess. And who will end up taking care of those kids who are abandoned by parents that didn't even want them?? I don't want an abortion, but if the government told me what I could do with my body (especially in such a life changing experience) then I would say -what?!?!?!?

I could say to those who are religious and want to judge ppl:
read Romans 14:1- "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters...Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls...."
or James 5:5- "Brother's do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgement on it. There is only one lawgiver and judge...But you-who are you to judge your neighbor?"


I didn't mean to make this too religious, but i'm just saying that:
-not everyone is religious so you can't expect to thrust your views on ppl and have ppl agree with you all the time
-have your personal opinions or views but don't put others down
 
First, let me say that what I'm going to write is not meant in any hostility, nor to offend or attack anyone. If I sound too strong, or that I'm focusing on something someone said a lot, it's nothing personal against you, and I'm not arguing or trying to offend you, etc. I'm just giving my opinion.

Good topic. I'm pro-choice, but for myself personally, I'm against it and would never have an abortion. However, God gave us "free will" and it shouldn't be taken from us. If abortion is a sin, then those who have had unnecessary abortions will be judged (sometimes it's medically necessary for the mother). God judges us by what we've done with our free will, so I don't believe it's right that everyone else should control every moral choice, etc. for everyone. People have to be allowed to choose between right or wrong. Just because one person thinks it's right or wrong doesn't give them the right to make the decision for everyone. Imagine if you lost a lot of your rights because of someone else's beliefs.

As for rape, I'd personally still have the baby because I couldn't kill, or place the blame on another innocent person because of what another did to me. However, rape and any sexual abuse is a very serious situation. It doesn't just affect the woman physically, but also emotionally and mentally...it can REALLY mess a woman up, even without a pregnancy. Sometimes the woman can't bear having any part of her attacker in her or linked to her...she'll keep reliving the event. These women can, and do get suicidal. It's not fair to judge a rape victim or call them wrong because they decided to get an abortion, and they're not being selfish, etc. There's A LOT that goes into it. They truly suffer, and not by choice. What if the woman was made to keep the baby, couldn't handle it and committed suicide? One life wouldn't be lost, two would, and the woman had no choice when it came to getting pregnant. It's a violent, traumatizing situation in every form, and it's a memory, etc. that the woman has to live with for the rest of her life. I'm not meaning to get personal, but I was technically raped when I was two years old (considered by the law in the state I lived in back then), and I'm STILL not over it. I still have the memories, the flashbacks, everything. I'm 26 years old, and it happened when I was 2 (yes, I truly remember it all). I came face to face with them again when I was 12, but wasn't attacked again. I have so much trouble dealing with that event, and I couldn't imagine if I had also gotten pregnant from it. Like I said earlier, I'd have the baby because of my personal feelings, but I can't make someone else do the same thing. It's not fair. It's almost like blaming and punishing the victim. I've been sexually abused three other times since then, ages 13, 15, and 16. I have enough experience with the issue in my life and what it does to a person. People can have their opinions, but when it comes to victims of abuse, it's really not fair to judge them at all or say what they "should" do. There's really no clear cut answer there.

Otherwise, I'm personally against abortion. I just can't make that decision for others. There is one case that I've heard of back where I used to live that I found completely wrong though, and that was because the mother aborted her child ONLY because the baby was going to be of a mixed race if it was born. She willingly had the relationship with the man. That's the most shallow reason for an abortion I've ever heard. It didn't involve financial hardship, no support, etc. It was based solely because of race.

As mariemarie stated, if the woman can't get the abortion in a clinic or at a doctor's, she'll find some other way to get it, and there's a much higher death rate. Also, not everyone believes in God, so we can't push our religious reasons on them either. Even though my views are religious based to an extent, I can't push it on someone else. Some people are atheist...so how do you explain God, our creator, etc. to them?

Don't get me wrong...I love children, and I want plenty of my own. I'm personally against abortion for myself. Even if I was raped, and I know personally how the affects of sexual abuse feels, I would still have that child, BUT, I can't make that decision for anyone else or judge them if they choose to abort the child. God gave us "free will" and we need to have enough freedom to be able to make right or wrong choices. There will always be tests, temptations, etc. out there for all of us...some sink, some swim. Is it fair that another life is involved? No. But there are some that think abortion should be illegal, and women shouldn't have the choice to abort or not. It's not right to take that choice from a person, whether we agree with their choices or not. Imagine if you had no choice in something that was major to you, and you have no voice. God made those Ten Commandments for us to abide by, and be tested and tempted to sin or not. Thy shall not murder is one of them. It's possible abortion is a test of that commandment.

Adoption sounds nice and all, but it doesn't always turn out so nice. There are children that always wonder about their birth parents, wondering why they weren't wanted, etc. When they come of age, sometimes they have the option to find their birth parent(s) or not, but if they look for the parents, the parents are first notified to ask whether they want to meet the child or not. What if the parents say no? The child's questions still go unanswered and they're no happier. They tend to have problems. I know two people that were orphans as children that turned out good. I also know one that turned out badly, and his mental issues are related to the fact that he's adopted and wanted to know his birth parents, but they refused him. He's a heroin addict, and alcoholic, and has problems with his temper. There's a lot of hurt there. What if the kids don't get adopted, or they go from foster home to foster home? All I'm saying is that it's not for me to judge. I can only be in control of myself because bad things happen everywhere that I don't agree with. Even if abortions end up being illegal, what about rape, child abuse, murder, drugs, and so many other problems in the world? I can only wish for those women to make the decision that "I" feel is right, and keep their babies, but I have no right to force them to. Do I feel that abortion is killing a life? Do I feel it's murder? Yes. There are always choices and at least two paths to choose from in life, and people need to be able to choose for themselves whether to take the right path, or the wrong one.

Now, there needs to be more education to prevent the number of abortions, and those that willfully have sex without worrying about the consequences of it (good or bad). There needs to be a stronger support system for these people as well.
 
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I respect that. but i think its as simple as this: take away weather its conscious or not, wather it can breathe outside the womb or not, and you are still killing a living creature,

I believe the arguement is, that if it is not conscious, nor able to breathe then it cannot be classified as a "living creature"
 
So people who are in a coma on life support are not living either according to this argument?
 
Coming from a pro-"choice" position - I think the "choice" is whether the mother wants to BE pregnant in the first place. That is the "Choice" here. So, if a female gets forcibly raped and other horrible things done to her, it's okay for her to be further punished by forcing her to carry the child of a criminal? What "CHOICE" does she have over her own body? That's where the confusion lies. The "choice" is up to the woman. It is HER body that will have to withstand a pregnancy lasting 9 months.

I also think that this is a hold-over to the "Adam and Eve" bible story....that Eve is the woman, is less than a man, and consequently has no right over what SHE WANTS to have happen to HER BODY. We need to move PAST that. It is now the 21st century. Government, church and laws should NOT dictate to a womans what her "choice" to BE pregnant in the first place is.

That's MY take on it.
 
I also think that this is a hold-over to the "Adam and Eve" bible story....that Eve is the woman, is less than a man, and consequently has no right over what SHE WANTS to have happen to HER BODY. We need to move PAST that. It is now the 21st century. Government, church and laws should NOT dictate to a womans what her "choice" to BE pregnant in the first place is.

That's MY take on it.

That's a great response.



And yes Ape sadly in some cases when some people fall into those states of a severe coma and life support they can be declared medically dead. That's when court cases come in and wills etc to "turn the machine off"

I know that if I ever end up in that vegetative state where the only thing keeping me alive is a machine and I don't have a chance in hell of making it... I know that I have put in a request to have my machine turned off, and also a do not resuscitate.
 
I believe the arguement is, that if it is not conscious, nor able to breathe then it cannot be classified as a "living creature"
So people who are in a coma on life support are not living either according to this argument?
i wouldn't compare an adult who is in a vegetative state to a living unconscious foetus that has the potential to develop into a person with characteristics and feelings.

the 'lack of consciousness' argument for abortion is quite weak compared to the fact that the potential for developing consciousness is very high because the genetic make-up for these characteristics was already set after the sperm fused with the egg.

the only reason why i brought this up is to argue against branding an umbrella term of "murder" to this infinitely complex ethical, moral, philosophical, biological, and legal issue.
 
wow- this is a very touchy subjec. I feel that I am not here to judge anyone on their personal decisions- that's not my job to do. I'm a Christian and I feel that I personally don't plan on having an abortion, but what would me calling someone else a murderer do in the long run???

If someone asks, I'll tell my opinion.
I do feel that alot of ppl who have abortions would have had kids that they didn't even want and that would be a total mess. And who will end up taking care of those kids who are abandoned by parents that didn't even want them?? I don't want an abortion, but if the government told me what I could do with my body (especially in such a life changing experience) then I would say -what?!?!?!?

I could say to those who are religious and want to judge ppl:
read Romans 14:1- "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters...Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls...."
or James 5:5- "Brother's do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgement on it. There is only one lawgiver and judge...But you-who are you to judge your neighbor?"


I didn't mean to make this too religious, but i'm just saying that:
-not everyone is religious so you can't expect to thrust your views on ppl and have ppl agree with you all the time
-have your personal opinions or views but don't put others down

let me say it again. my posts with regards to God are for believers. the purpose of pointing out to believers that this is not an issue they can support speaks directly to the verse you've quoted from in Romans. it is to help them keep faith in God and not be swayed by what is popular in opinion of man to avoid being persecuted for their beliefs. i am not speaking out to condemn them, but to help them with this issue and others to bring God back into it for those who do believe. Jesus said he would be persecuted, and so will we, his followers. this issue is one of the issues that those who are believers are persecuted on the most. we are viewed as being judgemental due to our unwavering position on this issue. and those who support this issue are viewed of as being what? the compassionate ones? i am full of compassion for the mothers, much more than you can imagine. we all have our stories don't we? i will tell you that this law that is in place can be used against women who wish to keep their child, and due to all the different scenarios that have been given in this thread, she is put in undue pressure situations to abort, sometimes to extremes that some of you cannot or have not ever fathomed. there are infinitely more ways that abortion is wrong than is even being discussed here.
 
Conservatives really kill me...Literally. While you are "pro-life" which ACTUALLY should be called "Anti-WOMAN", and you recite all this about abortion, it is YOUR TYPE that advocates NO SUPPORT for that woman AFTER SHE GIVES BIRTH. She gives birth and she's on welfare?? "Too bad" say you cons - in essence, GIVING A DEATH SENTENCE to that JUST BORN INFANT. You don't want WIC, you dont want WELFARE, but you DO want to FORCE A WOMAN TO BE PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Don't call yourself "Pro-Life". Better to put a MORE ACCURATE NAME to it. Call it "ANTI-WOMAN".
 
This may be a bit off topic, but when one freedom or ability to choose is taken away, others eventually follow, and what could eventually happen is everyone ending up with no, or very little rights. There was an article I read on yahoo news recently, on November 13, 2008, where there are many priests telling Catholics that they shouldn't take communion if they voted for Obama. Why? Because Obama supported pro-choice. The article basically said that those who voted for Obama are sinners because they supported someone that believes in "murdering" unborn children. Not to make this thread political, but shouldn't Catholics that voted for Bush before, refrain from taking Communion? I mean, look at the war we've been fighting for years. Isn't that killing people that are unquestionably alive, out of the womb, etc.? What about McCain? He was going to continue the war, which would result in more human deaths. Obama's plan is to end the war...okay, so he's pro-choice, but at least he's not taking rights away from the women. He's not forcing the women to get abortions, so it's not fair to say he's the one with the blood on his hands when there are others that definitely have blood on their hands.

This article sounds like religious leaders were punishing voters because they didn't vote how they (the church) wanted them to. Sounds almost like taking away the right to vote to me, because why should people be punished simply for voting for the candidate they felt was best? Not only are they taking away the right to vote, but also the right of choice. Be careful of how much power is put into anyone's hands because it will almost always be taken much further. If the Catholic believers voted how their church told them to, out of fear of punishment or some kind of sin, etc., and the church leaders knew their influence worked, then whose to say that the stakes won't be raised next time? Who's to say that the next time, since the abortion issue was solved, that they'll try to make people vote against any form of contraception (condoms, etc.)...the Catholic faith is against birth control, and only favors the natural family planning method, which the woman has a 1 in 4, or 1 in 5 chance of getting pregnant anyway? Sure, it sounds far-fetched that such a law would be passed, but you never know. Be careful how much power you give to others. You may not like the choices other people make, but remember and be thankful that at least YOU have a choice and aren't forced into any particular person's or organization's, etc. beliefs.

I'm not Catholic, and I'm not hateful of them either. There are things that I don't believe are right about the religion, but that's as far as it goes. I'm not trying to offend anyone here. My husband is Catholic, and we married in the Catholic church, and the only thing I can say is they really pressure people, and sometimes outright lie (at least the place we went to did) about some things...especially birth control. We can only do what's right for us as an individual, and we can never force or make anyone do what we believe is right. Just think of the other things that go on every day in society that aren't right, and go against your beliefs...there's plenty, but it wouldn't be right if we controlled everything a person said, did, or believed. Pro-choice is a major decision, and it's not an easy one, and it's not up to anyone to judge another for choosing to get an abortion, or to keep the child.

Here's the link to the news article that I was referring to:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081113/ap_on_re_us/obama_catholics;_ylt=ApyWHOxvRmymw.1fJfoZPPWs0NUE
 
This may be a bit off topic, but when one freedom or ability to choose is taken away, others eventually follow, and what could eventually happen is everyone ending up with no, or very little rights. There was an article I read on yahoo news recently, on November 13, 2008, where there are many priests telling Catholics that they shouldn't take communion if they voted for Obama.

this was a single priest who stated this in a Sunday mass following the election that got a lotta press.

Why? Because Obama supported pro-choice. The article basically said that those who voted for Obama are sinners because they supported someone that believes in "murdering" unborn children. Not to make this thread political, but shouldn't Catholics that voted for Bush before, refrain from taking Communion? I mean, look at the war we've been fighting for years. Isn't that killing people that are unquestionably alive, out of the womb, etc.? What about McCain? He was going to continue the war, which would result in more human deaths. Obama's plan is to end the war...okay, so he's pro-choice, but at least he's not taking rights away from the women. He's not forcing the women to get abortions, so it's not fair to say he's the one with the blood on his hands when there are others that definitely have blood on their hands.

i agree with your pointing on this contradiction completely. that is why people should not vote for a president on this single issue, because regardless who is voted for, there will be death resulting from them. candidates have to be looked at on the whole. i don't know mccain's stance on the death penalty, but i know George's and find it despicable. i feel that mccain is as much about war as George was however Obama has also said he will use war. i would prefer there is never a war. i believe countries should use diplomacy to resolve differences, not shed blood. yes this is off topic, but nevertheless, it shows an important issue. i voted for Obama knowing his stance on abortion. i don't support that part of his politics, but i support a great many other things of his candidacy. i will work against him on his stance on abortion, and will work with him on the ones i agree with.
 
That story focused on one priest, but briefly mentioned that there were others that tried to influence the way people voted, stated in the fifth paragraph of that article: "A few church leaders said parishioners risked their immortal soul by voting for candidates who support abortion rights." I agree, people will die under both presidencies, but like you said, we have to look at them as a whole. Obama said he would use war, but also gave a time line of when we'd try to be out of Iraq...14 months. At least there could be an end in site.

Anyway, back on topic, each individual should be able to choose what's right for them without risking being judged, condemned, hated, looked down upon, etc. I love children and would personally never have an abortion. I want several children in the future, but who am I to force my beliefs on someone else? I treat others how I want to be treated...fairly and equally. Everyone should put theirself in the other person's shoes.

Instead of thinking about forcing people to keep the baby, lets put the situation in reverse...what if you (not referring to anyone directly here) were pregnant, the circumstances weren't right, you wanted to keep the baby, yet everyone else around you felt it was wrong and were trying to force you to get an abortion?
 
Instead of thinking about forcing people to keep the baby, lets put the situation in reverse...what if you (not referring to anyone directly here) were pregnant, the circumstances weren't right, you wanted to keep the baby, yet everyone else around you felt it was wrong and were trying to force you to get an abortion?

people who do not want babies, should prevent it up front, not use abortion as the fail-safe for not taking precautions that would have prevented the unwanted baby in the first place, and yes the reverse is in play on women, and since abortion is legal, women who dont want them are put into situations that are unimaginable at times to terminate. those who refuse suffer in ways that is not even being taken into account so far in this discussion. i am by no means anti-woman. i am for them taking precautions upfront to prevent the pregnancy if a child is not wanted. many of those aborted babies were future women btw.
 
I agree with you completely friend. I'm not suggesting that abortion should be something women should jump at the first chance they get, and I agree that preventative measures should be taken. It's also true that women that don't want babies should take the necessary steps in order to avoid getting pregnant rather than being careless, only "eliminating" the child after conception as a quick fix. I feel that these babies are humans as well...their heart beats, they're able to hear what's outside of the womb, etc. It's very unfortunate that all of them can't be born into loving families that want them, and others can't be born at all.
 
Guys should also think that their seed should be put elsewhere if they don't wan't babies. Hah! Most of the problems solved allready.

Think about if it was the opposite way around, that it was us girls who inpregnant they guys if we weren't careful while having sex. Most of the responsibility would be on them.

It's often too much focus on what the girls should do to prevent getting pregnant if they don't want to, when it is the guys who actually come with the coctail.
 
Guys should also think that their seed should be put elsewhere if they don't wan't babies. Hah! Most of the problems solved allready.

Think about if it was the opposite way around, that it was us girls who inpregnant they guys if we weren't careful while having sex. Most of the responsibility would be on them.

It's often too much focus on what the girls should do to prevent getting pregnant if they don't want to, when it is the guys who actually come with the coctail.

true. but the problem with that is since the guys dont have to deal with the chances of having a baby they really dont worry about it(seems that way anyways..)

 
Guys should also think that their seed should be put elsewhere if they don't wan't babies. Hah! Most of the problems solved allready.

Think about if it was the opposite way around, that it was us girls who inpregnant they guys if we weren't careful while having sex. Most of the responsibility would be on them.

It's often too much focus on what the girls should do to prevent getting pregnant if they don't want to, when it is the guys who actually come with the coctail.

Like I said, the HYPOCRACY of this society really gets to me. First, they will provide MONEY to men to buy VIAGRA. Then you have a bunch of men having sex with anything that walks, and THEN, when the WOMAN gets PREGNANT....Oooh!! It's all the WOMAN's fault.

I have an answer. ELIMINATE the VIAGRA. OR DON'T LET INSURANCE COVER THIS....either that or SUPPORT a womans right to choose whether SHE wants to get Pregnant or not..
 
I could say to those who are religious and want to judge ppl:
read Romans 14:1- "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters...Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls...."
or James 5:5- "Brother's do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgement on it. There is only one lawgiver and judge...But you-who are you to judge your neighbor?"

I'm religious, I read the Bible all the time, I give my all to live for God, and I will do anything for God. Jesus is everything to me.

But here's the thing... Jesus himself said, you do not send a doctor to cure the heathly. A christian IMO should NEVER go out and tell people that they are going straight to hell... Because at the end of the day, we don't know.

If you look at me walking down the street, you would have NO clue that I am a religious christian. No clue! I don't wear alot of jewellry these days - mostly earrings, I don't wear T-shirts which advertises my faith, nor do I walk around showing off a leather-bound Bible everywhere. I don't preach God everywhere I go, yet I have lead several people to Christ, I have shared the gospel with more people I can count, and trust me... I will NEVER pass judgement on anyone.

I can't tell if the person I meet is Christian or not. I can't tell if they believe or not, if they actually live according to God's will. All I know is, Jesus is my idol, my role-model, and HE ate with the worst of the worst. He stayed with those shunned by everyone else, and reached out to those hated everywhere. THAT is who I want to be, not someone standing outside clinics shying away women who need help.
 
i have spoken to men who did not know their wives were pregnant until after an abortion had already happened, and they were devastated. they wanted the child. which brings up another issue about rights, and notifications. all the power is within the hands of one person in this situation when they are not the only ones affected.
 
All of you above have made good points as well to this issue...why aren't the men held as responsible as much as the women are? Women don't get pregnant by themselves. Women have it harder...the wear on their bodies, having to take care of the child afterwards, etc. We're the ones that have to raise the child and put the values into him or her, etc. As for men, they can cut loose right after doing his thing and move on from woman to woman. Not every woman that gets pregnant unintentionally is loose...it's not fair to say that. A lot of women really have sincere feelings for, and love the man they had relations with, and after they get pregnant, there's plenty of times when the man gets up and leaves. The woman is the one left with the child, and it's not easy. Even if the woman is 27 years old and married, they still run that risk...marriage doesn't promise the guy will be faithful and stay. Sometimes there isn't enough help for the woman to be able to take care of a child on her own...look at how much diapers, formula, and daycare costs alone. It's a scary situation, and when you're not even sure that you can take care of yourself, I can see how some can panic when they get pregnant. In my opinion, the best thing is not to judge others, and at least allow the woman to have a choice. Men, as a few stated above, should also be held just as responsible, and it's not fair that they're mostly encouraged to have sex, while women, if they get pregnant unintentionally, etc. are viewed as low, loose sluts.
 
Friend, you posted your response RIGHT before me, lol! You bring up another great point. I've also heard about men that have wanted their child, didn't know the woman was pregnant, and had an abortion. The guy should have the right to know if the woman is pregnant or not, and if he wants the child, something should be worked out. It may be the woman's body there, and she may be the mother, but the father needs to have rights to his child as well. There ARE good men out there, and sometimes they're with women that don't care about the issue as much. It's not fair to take a woman's choice away, but at the same time, it's not fair for a father that wants the baby to have no choice either.
 
Like I said, the HYPOCRACY of this society really gets to me. First, they will provide MONEY to men to buy VIAGRA. Then you have a bunch of men having sex with anything that walks, and THEN, when the WOMAN gets PREGNANT....Oooh!! It's all the WOMAN's fault.

I have an answer. ELIMINATE the VIAGRA. OR DON'T LET INSURANCE COVER THIS....either that or SUPPORT a womans right to choose whether SHE wants to get Pregnant or not..

I think the women should stay together in this issue. Not long ago we didn't have the freedom of voice, now that we have alot of folks seems to not deal.

Instead of passing judgement on somebody, show your love and comfort instead.

And I do believe God understand the abortion issue. God don't judge. People does.

I liked how you described your religion, Minnie. That is how my wish for what the future should be more like.
 
I think we're all saying "don't judge" though. It sounds like most of us feel that abortion should be a choice, but some people made a good point above though...what if the woman wants an abortion, or gets one, and the man didn't want her to have one, and wanted the child, and was willing to take care of and love the child? That child is just as much the man's child as it is the woman's child. The man can't be punished for not having a woman's reproductive organs. There are men out there that really want children, and would make excellent fathers. Obviously that situation would be even more complicated, but I think that the man should at least have the right to know that the woman was pregnant before she got an abortion...at least then there's a chance that some agreement could be made.
 
I think we're all saying "don't judge" though. It sounds like most of us feel that abortion should be a choice, but some people made a good point above though...what if the woman wants an abortion, or gets one, and the man didn't want her to have one, and wanted the child, and was willing to take care of and love the child? That child is just as much the man's child as it is the woman's child. The man can't be punished for not having a woman's reproductive organs. There are men out there that really want children, and would make excellent fathers. Obviously that situation would be even more complicated, but I think that the man should at least have the right to know that the woman was pregnant before she got an abortion...at least then there's a chance that some agreement could be made.

I agree. But unfortunatly it's the womens choice. We can actually go and take an abortion without anyone knowing about it. Yes, that is our right. But I think in those cases we are mainly talking about people who are not in a relationship. That have one night stands or "they are not that interested in eachother".

In most cases the man have to know if he have been careful or not, so from that way on he should have a good clue if his girl may or may not be pregnant

It's a little silly, unless the girl have lied and said she was on the pill when she were not, that a guy gets "surprised" when they get pregnant. It's sometimes "how did that happen?" lol.
 
I don't think you guys understand....

Coming from a pro-"choice" position - I think the "choice" is whether the mother wants to BE pregnant in the first place. That is the "Choice" here. So, if a female gets forcibly raped and other horrible things done to her, it's okay for her to be further punished by forcing her to carry the child of a criminal? How about if a little 13 year old gets forcibly raped by her father or stepfather or uncle?? And then THIS CHILD has to carry that pregnancy to term? What about the woman who used birth control, and it didn't work?

What CHOICE does SHE have?? What "CHOICE" does she have over her own body? That's where the confusion lies. The "choice" is up to the woman. It is HER body that will have to withstand a pregnancy lasting 9 months. And I am all for SETTING LIMITS on WHEN this choice is NO LONGER a choice. I am NOT for late-term abortions. However, I AM all for someone who finds out very early, like the next morning or so, that she is pregnant, and decides she doesn't WANT to be pregnant.

I also think that this is a hold-over to the "Adam and Eve" bible story....that Eve is the woman, is less than a man, and consequently has no right over what SHE WANTS to have happen to HER BODY. We need to move PAST that. It is now the 21st century. Government, church and laws should NOT dictate to a womans what her "choice" to BE pregnant in the first place is.

That's MY take on it.

Conservatives really kill me...Literally. While you are "pro-life" which ACTUALLY should be called "Anti-WOMAN", and you recite all this about abortion, it is YOUR TYPE that advocates NO SUPPORT for that woman AFTER SHE GIVES BIRTH. She gives birth and she's on welfare with NO real good job or NO husband/boyfriend to pay the bills?? "Too bad" say you cons - in essence, GIVING A DEATH SENTENCE to that JUST BORN INFANT. You don't want WIC(you want to STARVE the child), you dont want WELFARE,(You want that child to FREEZE to death if they have no place to stay) but you DO want to FORCE A WOMAN TO BE PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Don't call yourself "Pro-Life". Better to put a MORE ACCURATE NAME to it. Call it "ANTI-WOMAN". And dont go calling me "anti-baby". There IS no "baby" at the point where the abortion would happen - it is not even a fetus yet...

The absolute HYPOCRACY of this society really gets to me. First, they will provide MONEY to men to buy VIAGRA or CIALIS or LEVITRA. Hell, they even made a cottage industry of SPAM MAIL based on Viagra, Cialis or Levitra SALES!! Then you have a bunch of men having sex with anything that walks, and THEN, when the WOMAN gets PREGNANT....Oooh!! It's all the WOMAN's fault. The condom broke? It's the WOMANS fault. The PILL didn't work? BLAME IT ON THE WOMAN! SHE is the ROOT of all evil - just like her Earth Mother, Eve.

I have an answer. ELIMINATE the VIAGRA..Take CIALIS and LEVITRA OFF THE MARKET!!

OR DON'T LET INSURANCE COVER THIS....either that or SUPPORT a womans right to choose whether SHE wants to get Pregnant or not..
 
hope this discussion does not become men are the evil of the earth or women are -- either way -- to me, this discussion is not about who is bad who is to blame, who is judging who, etc. it is about whether or not abortion should be legal. maybe i'm the one who is misunderstanding it. idk...
 
this is never a constructive discussion b/c for everyone who DOES cooperate, there's always a few who make it impossible....

comparing a baby to a victim in a coma? that person HAS LIVED....a baby has not.

that's like saying if we legalize gay marriage people will start having sex w/ animals...it's not a natural and logical sequence of events.


sorry but those who are pro life need to start adopting the babies that aren't wanted b/c this 'they'll find a good home' speech works for no one...if that were true, y are there so many foster children? and teh women who abused drugs and alcohol while carry ing a child.....those children are even harder to place.

it's a woman's choice...

and friend, sure u can CHOOSE to protect urself but if the condom breaks and the male splits, what r u gonna do? a man can CHOOSE to stay or leave....a woman cannot.

and that's y abortion is an issue...a man will neverhave to get one so it doesn'tmatter
 
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