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L.A. County Coroner Findings

where are you getting the phone records from?

how can he sit there and lie about leaving the room for 2 mins to go to the bathroom..! if there are these phone records.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
the only opton is we are all wrong about (Tohme) he liked mj and went to the hospital when he heard the news and hung around!
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I recall he was with Jermaine at the hospital, and was rather obvious (in where he was standing) at the press conference.

As to whether or not he "liked" MJ, we all really should review the photos of when he and MJ were together. They never make eye-contact. Tohme is always grim-faced. . scowling. He ALWAYS had an iron-grip on Michael's arm, even when they are not being mobbed by paparrazzi. Then we have that taped phone call from Michael (which may or may not be real. . I think it is, though), saying he was "scared" of Tohme. And before that, we have the auction that Tohme set up. That caused Michael a lot of distress and money in attorneys' fees.

I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of "evidence," photographic and otherwise, that Tohme did NOT like Michael, but was using him. I haven't seen any evidence that he DID care about him. Anyone?
 
oh god please don't ruin the thread with the conspiracy theories . AEG were more than capable of hiring a much more professional killer than this stupid doctor . please everybody is benefiting from his death including his MOTHER , and her children , and HIS CHILDREN , financialwise .nobody believe they killed him . some logic please
 
Rockin. said:
where are you getting the phone records from?

how can he sit there and lie about leaving the room for 2 mins to go to the bathroom..! if there are these phone records.
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the phone records are from the seacrh warrant .
 
Oceangirl said:
victoria , ask the asshole jermaine why he called tohme ? no one killed mj but murray although the others are benefiting from his death like they benefited from exploiting him in his life , like jermaine for example .
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Well, I don't exactly have Jermaine's phone number, to ask him? LOL I've read that Jermaine was the one who introduced Tohme to Michael. Either Jermaine called Tohme, or someone else did, earlier. Don't know.

Sure, people are benefitting from Michael's death. And yes, Murray killed him. What we DON'T know is if it was deliberate and there will be an offshore account waiting for Murray when his probation ends? And if Murray happens to read here or has someone who does. . . we'll be WATCHING YOU, long-term.

One thing that I'm worried about is that Murray could have a bad "accident" before officially charged? I hope he doesn't. I hope he sings and sings.
 
I guess what I'm saying is there is a lot of "evidence," photographic and otherwise, that Tohme did NOT like Michael, but was using him. I haven't seen any evidence that he DID care about him. Anyone
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yeah like we said in the begining thome being from colony was a total conflict of intrest.and their intrests is all that mattered
 
Oceangirl said:
oh god please don't ruin the thread with the conspiracy theories . AEG were more than capable of hiring a much more professional killer than this stupid doctor . please everybody is benefiting from his death including his MOTHER , and her children , and HIS CHILDREN , financialwise .nobody believe they killed him . some logic please
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In terms of "logic," and facts, of the family, both Joseph and LaToya have gone on record to say that they think Michael was murdered. Intentionally, and not "accidentally." Don't know about the rest of the family . . . they haven't said. It's been reported that the family has hired professionals to conduct their own investigation.

But about "conspiracy theories." You're right. That's best done in the Investigative Unit, where there are guidelines and where others don't have to enter if they don't want to.
 
you know what i'm afraid it will take long time before any charges are filed against murray . they have not interviewed Alvarez and the other bodyguard , probably many are not yet interviewed , make you feel more angry with the police since this should have been also the case when sneddon went after mj in 2003 , he should have investigated first .
 
Victoria83 said:
In terms of "logic," and facts, of the family, both Joseph and LaToya have gone on record to say that they think Michael was murdered. Intentionally, and not "accidentally." Don't know about the rest of the family . . . they haven't said. It's been reported that the family has hired professionals to conduct their own investigation.

But about "conspiracy theories." You're right. That's best done in the Investigative Unit, where there are guidelines and where others don't have to enter if they don't want to.
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I was banned from kop board because of my absolute HATE toward these two leeches you mentioned , they are far from being a trustworthy source for anything related to MJ . joe is responsible as much as murray in what happened to mj , as for latoya , what an attention seeker .

they want colonty or AEG to be responsible because that means they can sue and get $$$$ while murray is broke and they won't get anything out of suing him .
as for hiring professionals to conduct their own investigation , well, let's remember the "professionals" Katie hired to face Branca in court and introduced as experts from Rowe who called her son every name under the sun, to her son Randy who stole from her other son Michael during the most difficult time in his life , to another one the jacksons sued in the 1980th and accused of fraud .

I'm still waiting for a lawsuit or even a statement from the family against Ian Halprein . they have enough money to go after MJ's estate to try and blackmail the executors to distribute more money to beneficiaries but they have no money to hire lawyers to defend mj's legacy .

please no one come and tell me the estate has to do that, what can the executor do when members of his family are sources for most the bullshit out there .
 
Oceangirl said:
I was banned from kop board because of my absolute HATE toward these two leeches you mentioned , they are far from being a trustworthy source for anything related to MJ . joe is responsible as much as murray in what happened to mj , as for latoya , what an attention seeker .

they want colonty or AEG to be responsible because that means they can sue and get $$$$ while murray is broke and they won't get anything out of suing him .
as for hiring professionals to conduct their own investigation , well, let's remember the "professionals" Katie hired to face Branca in court and introduced as experts from Rowe who called her son every name under the sun, to her son Randy who stole from her other son Michael during the most difficult time in his life , to another one the jacksons sued in the 1980th and accused of fraud .

I'm still waiting for a lawsuit or even a statement from the family against Ian Halprein . they have enough money to go after MJ's estate to try and blackmail the executors to distribute more money to beneficiaries but they have no money to hire lawyers to defend mj's legacy .

please no one come and tell me the estate has to do that, what can the executor do when members of his family are sources for most the bullshit out there .
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You have made some very valid points!!!!

Yeah, and ditto on your distrust. I don't trust anyone from Michael's family at this point (except Janet) and his kids. Katherine - very sweet & likeable - but I don't trust her because despite it all, she still very much influenced by Joe, no matter how long she's been separated. She's very church-y and old school when it comes to that - and seems to have a "battered spouse" syndrome manner about her.
 
And murray is still denying it?.. hah :doh:

If it is true about them moving michael's body after death then he's done for, and it means someone else is in on it.

Oceangirl said:
the phone records are from the seacrh warrant .
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I was wondering about what Liza Minelli said.. something about ''we were the ones that really knew him, and thank god we are celebrating him now and he is getting these accolades now because when we get the autopsy all hell will break loose' ... ? What do you think she meant by that?

- Im paraphrasing what I heard by the way, I can't remember it exactly.
 
Please! The rules of MJJC still apply. We are not going to degenerate into bashing Michael's family. Whatever the reality might be. . . . . . . no name-calling, please. Back on topic, now.
 
Rockin. said:
I was wondering about what Liza Minelli said.. something about ''we were the ones that really knew him, and thank god we are celebrating him now and he is getting these accolades now because when we get the autopsy all hell will break loose' ... ? What do you think she meant by that?

- Im paraphrasing what I heard by the way, I can't remember it exactly.
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not alot she prob hasnt seen him since her wedding
 
Rockin. said:
I was wondering about what Liza Minelli said.. something about ''we were the ones that really knew him, and thank god we are celebrating him now and he is getting these accolades now because when we get the autopsy all hell will break loose' ... ? What do you think she meant by that?

- Im paraphrasing what I heard by the way, I can't remember it exactly.
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i remember when she made that statement. I was like.. THANK YOU LIZA....

LIZA knew with in hours and days... MJ would have been turned into a monster like the media has portrayed him the past decades.

it was two months ago.. but i don't think she said "autopsy"?? did she?

i thought she was just making a point that ... it was time to mourn and show respect.. b/c inevitably the media would turn on him. IMO.
 
Liza was and still is more HIGH than MJ would have ever been . Did any one see her on Larry king with Usher , she was OUT OF THIS WORLD completely .

I know one thing , the nurse Lee was employeed by mj for four months from january till 19th of april , she conducted tests on him , he was clean , she delievered these tests that back up her claims to the LAPD . the cause of death and the drugs detected in mj's body along with Murray's admission he was the one who tried to wean mj by giving him these drugs make me believe he was CLEAN . not to mention that everybody around mj at that time who had no motive to lie, from the chef kai, his vocal coach, Lou ..etc said mj was always alert at top of his game and engaged in everything .stop please listening to the media , mj was not doctor shopping, he was not addcited to painkillers , he was clean .
 
do u think he could have been addicted to the benz.... hence using diprivan cause the benzines didnt work. and murray says he was treating mj for insomnis for 6 weeks at least. these drugs should only be used for 2-4 at the most from what ive read cause they are highly addictive
 
my mom takes benz and they are indeed HIGHLY ADDCITIVE and not good at all .
 
mj had three other drugs prescribed by Metzeger and Klien, the clonazepam and trazodone were prescribed by metzeger , the third one is prescribed by klien . all the others were prescribed by murray and according to murray he started giving him these drugs only a day before his death .

as for metzeger and klien meds , maybe mj was taking them before he started getting propofol , so he might be addicted to them , but if he replaced them with propofol once he got someone to administer it to him , then probably he was not addcited to benzo at all .and only clonazepam was a benzodiazepine .we don't know actually when they were even prescribed in the first place.

Clonazepam is a benzodiazepine


Trazodone (Desyrel, Beneficat, Deprax, Desirel, Molipaxin, Thombran, Trazorel, Trialodine, Trittico) is a psychoactive drug of the piperazine and triazolopyridinechemical classes that has antidepressant, anxiolytic, and hypnotic properties.[1] It has been advertised that its therapeutic benefits become noticeable within the first week of administration. Trazodone has considerably less prominent anticholinergic (dry mouth, constipation, tachycardia) and sympatholytic (hypotension, sexual dysfunction consisting of erectile dysfunction and anorgasmia) side effects in comparison to most of the tricyclic antidepressants (TCAs) and tetracyclic antidepressants (TeCAs)


Tizanidine (brandnames Zanaflex, Sirdalud) is a drug that is used as a muscle relaxant. It is a centrally acting α-2 adrenergic agonist. It is used to treat the spasms, cramping, and tightness of muscles caused by medical problems such as multiple sclerosis, spastic diplegia, back pain, or certain other injuries to the spine or central nervous system. It is also prescribed off-label for migraineheadaches, as a sleep aid, and as an anticonvulsant. It is also prescribed for some symptoms of fibromyalgia[1].
Tizanidine may cause hypotension, so caution is advised when it is used in patients who have a history of orthostatic hypotension. Use caution with this drug as it can be very strong even at the 2 mg dose. Also use caution when switching from gel cap to tablet form and vice versa.
 
does anyone remember that in a search warrant the police said they found many empty drug bottles beside mj's bed , would anyone please post the names of these drugs ?
 
Oceangirl said:
i find it very hard to believe that mj would allow cameras to watch him24/7 . I don't believe there was any camera in his bedroom . what i'm talking about is the camera which showed who entered and left the house that night .
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same here. are we sure about this? it just doesn't feel right to me. MJ was so very private.
 
Soso Deaf said:
how hoefflin is suggesting there was lividity in the body. meaning that he was dead much longer than the dr. states....when you've passed, and you're obviously immobile, the blood pools on the area facing the floor. if u passed and you are on your face on the floor, it pools to y our stomach. if you're on your back, it pools to your back

now the heat from the fire could've affected rigor but it wouldn't effect lividity.

this is just so damn disturbing and i wish we were talking about someone else and not mike
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I know :(

:hug:
 
Oceangirl said:
Liza was and still is more HIGH than MJ would have ever been . Did any one see her on Larry king with Usher , she was OUT OF THIS WORLD completely .

I know one thing , the nurse Lee was employeed by mj for four months from january till 19th of april , she conducted tests on him , he was clean , she delievered these tests that back up her claims to the LAPD . the cause of death and the drugs detected in mj's body along with Murray's admission he was the one who tried to wean mj by giving him these drugs make me believe he was CLEAN . not to mention that everybody around mj at that time who had no motive to lie, from the chef kai, his vocal coach, Lou ..etc said mj was always alert at top of his game and engaged in everything .stop please listening to the media , mj was not doctor shopping, he was not addcited to painkillers , he was clean .
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great post... becuz the druggy story just don't add up..........sure he took meds for various ailments... he was no saint.............but from what the media keep harping on.. just don't add up to me...
 
Oceangirl said:
my mom takes benz and they are indeed HIGHLY ADDCITIVE and not good at all .
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okay maybe I am confused but just upthread you said that you thought he was clean... now you're saying that perhaps he was addicted to the Benzidiapenes? can you please clear this up? thanks.
 
Oceangirl said:
does anyone remember that in a search warrant the police said they found many empty drug bottles beside mj's bed , would anyone please post the names of these drugs ?
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For all anyone knows, those empty drug bottles could have been placed there by Conrad Murray as he had hours to plant and do what he wanted. Was probably trying to make it look like an overdose.
 
Rockin. said:
And murray is still denying it?.. hah :doh:

If it is true about them moving michael's body after death then he's done for, and it means someone else is in on it.
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yeah Murray is done for...I was thinking about this last night when I heard it.....The question is who??? was in that room with Murray, who helped him move Michael's body??? It would of had to of been...1.someone who was already in the house or 2, someone Murray sneaked in.....If it was someone Murray sneaked in then the person would show up on the security tape...the tape that shows Murray getting there at 1am...
 
okay maybe I am confused but just upthread you said that you thought he was clean... now you're saying that perhaps he was addicted to the Benzidiapenes? can you please clear this up? thanks.
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I do believe he was clean , but elusive asked whether we think he could be addcited to benzodiazepine before he started using propofol , i said if he indeed was taking benzo meds (from the drugs listed which found beside his bed only one belonged to that brand of meds was prescribed to mj by a doctor different than murray) if he indeed was taking benzo meds and left them as soon as he found someone to administer propofol to him then he was not addcited to them .
 
Kizmic said:
For all anyone knows, those empty drug bottles could have been placed there by Conrad Murray as he had hours to plant and do what he wanted. Was probably trying to make it look like an overdose.
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that's exactly what i've been trying to say . again does anyone know where to find the list of empty bottles found near mjs bed , i know the list of the drugs but i want the list of the EMPTY bottles.
 
Oceangirl said:
I do believe he was clean , but elusive asked whether we think he could be addcited to benzodiazepine before he started using propofol , i said if he indeed was taking benzo meds (from the drugs listed which found beside his bed only one belonged to that brand of meds was prescribed to mj by a doctor different than murray) if he indeed was taking benzo meds and left them as soon as he found someone to administer propofol to him then he was not addcited to them .
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If Michael took any of these benzo drugs for a long period of time his body would of became addicted to them...I am in NO WAY saying that Michael wanted to be addicted to them what I am saying is that your body gets dependent on these meds and must be weened of of them...one can not simply stop taking them ....you would go through to many side effects...mentally.
 
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