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Michael didn't "steal" anything from Grease...

Grease is a representation of the 1950s. People wore white socks in the 1950s. In fact people wore white socks before the 1950... they're just socks...

All Michael did was wear them a lot cos he liked the look... because he wore them a lot they eventually became associated with him. Once you have a recognisable "trade-mark" as a performer, whether you intended for it to be a trade-mark or not, it makes sense to keep it. Yes many artists do undergo image transformations (and Michael did too, from Thiller to Bad etc) but generally, if you're known for something, it's good business to stick with it or at least bring it back every once in while.

I don't like the use of the word "stealing" in this conversation either :( it sounds like something malicious and I dont think MJ did anything like that in terms of influences.
 
Arabian Knight said:
:bugeyed Did you say that!!

:naa: :thumbdown:

I don't agree and I don't care because John Travolta didn’t change the face of music.
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now it's John Travolta!! :bugeyed:wild::bugeyed:wild:

the god of music is MJ

the kings of music are Elvis, Pink Floyd, The Beetles

John Travolta is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind them, I even recently knew that he is actually a singer, or a dancer:scratch:(he is not bad though)

I say that this thread should be closed, it's just too humiliating to the KING OF POP
 
^^ Michael’s legacy speaks for itself. His success started since he was a child… Before we were born during the 60s and 70s Michael was a big success. He was tap dancing, did he steal it?, he wore a hat like Fred Astaire, did he steal it? He wore an afro, did he steal it?… He didn’t steal anything! He borrowed some of those styles, dance moves, fashions, etc… and he added his own on top of them to come up with a perfect formula. He is unique, there is no doubt about it and he is one of a kind.
 
Some of you people really are ridiculous.

Somehow saying Michael took a few things from John Travolta is comparing John Travolta to MJ?! How did you gather that from what I said?

Ill tell you how, because in all of your minds whenever anything even slightly slightly negative is said about Michael you all go on the ultra defensive! When its clearly clearly not needed.

Now your all trying to make out that I was comparing John Travolta to MJ in terms of talent!? WTF!? I just said that Michael took a few things from him! How you took that as me saying John Travolta was as good as MJ ill never ever know........

You guys are making fools out of yourselves, save your defending of Michael for when its really needed instead of twisting things I say and making out im saying things that I really never said. Did you hear me say John Travolta is as good or better than MJ!? No.........if that was the poitn I was trying to make. I would have just said that...no?

Its ridiculous! I swear sometimes you guys are just so infuriating.

You all would see the word 'steal' as being malicious because your looking for the worst in everything I say even if its only the slightest bit negative.

You all either need to read things more carefully, or at least ATTEMPT to understand what someone else is saying before you go on the defensive. But you just read something slightly negative and as soon as you hear that your brains just tell you to DEFEND! Well stop it........please.
 
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^^ :nopersonalattacks

When I mentioned Travolta it was sarcasm obviously he is not compared to Michael in terms of talent.
 
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Arabian Knight said:
^^ :nopersonalattacks
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Ive tried to stay calm through this whole thing. But when people twist things I say and make it out as if im saying something that im not. I cant control myself.

Did you know that there are some fans here that are bigger Prince fans than Michael Jackson fans? Some fans cant take that. They just cant believe that anybody would love someone else more than their precious Michael.

Im not one of them by the way. Im an MJ fan before anything else and hes my idol.
 
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L.T.D. said:
With the trouers pulled wayyy up high so you can clearly see the white socks??? Yeah I see that EVERYWHERE.

Michael quite clearly stole a few things from Grease.
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This is so silly. Grease is set in the 50s where that was the style. Travolta did not think of it.. he did not choose it.. he was given that to wear by wardrobe to fit into the style of the times the movie was supposed to be set in.

MJ kept the style after it went out and made it his thing.

If you want to know - There is a scene in Funny Face (with Fred Astaire) where Audrey Hepburn is dancing around a club wearing white socks with pulled up black pants - that was made in 1956 (the style of the times)! The point is MJ kept it when nobody else did. In moonwalk he talks about dressing like that when it was considered 'square' and Jermaine used to tease him about it.

He didn't claim to invent the style, he didn't 'steal' it (how do you 'steal' wearing white socks and black pants) but he made it his trademark, expanded on it with crystals and he's probably the only person ppl can recognise by their feet.

MJ always acknowledges his inspiration - read moonwalk, or even the magic and the madness.

Can we stop arguing *about socks now.
 
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Rockin. said:
This is so silly. Grease is set in the 50s where that was the style. Travolta did not think of it.. he did not choose it.. he was given that to wear by wardrobe to fit into the style of the times the movie was supposed to be set in.

MJ kept the style after it went out and made it his thing.

If you want to know - There is a scene in Funny Face (with Fred Astaire) where Audrey Hepburn is dancing around a club wearing white socks with pulled up black pants - that was made in 1956 (the style of the times)! The point is MJ kept it when nobody else did. In moonwalk he talks about dressing like that when it was considered 'square' and Jermaine used to tease him about it.

He didn't claim to invent the style, he didn't 'steal' it (how do you 'steal' wearing white socks and black pants) but he made it his trademark, expanded on it with crystals and he's probably the only person ppl can recognise by their feet.

MJ always acknowledges his inspiration - read moonwalk, or even the magic and the madness.

Can we stop arguing socks now.
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Took the words out of my mouth! :)
 
L.T.D. said:
Ive tried to stay calm through this whole thing. But when people twist things I say and make it out as if im saying something that im not. I cant control myself.
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I agree. I hope there is no misunderstanding.


L.T.D. said:
Did you know that there are some fans here that are bigger Prince fans than Michael Jackson fans? Some fans cant take that. They just cant believe that anybody would someone else more than their precious Michael.

Im not one of them by the way. Im an MJ fan before anything else and hes my idol.
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Yes I know that :)
 
Rockin. said:
This is so silly. Grease is set in the 50s where that was the style. Travolta did not think of it.. he did not choose it.. he was given that to wear by wardrobe to fit into the style of the times the movie was supposed to be set in.

MJ kept the style after it went out and made it his thing.

If you want to know - There is a scene in Funny Face (with Fred Astaire) where Audrey Hepburn is dancing around a club wearing white socks with pulled up black pants - that was made in 1956 (the style of the times)! The point is MJ kept it when nobody else did. In moonwalk he talks about dressing like that when it was considered 'square' and Jermaine used to tease him about it.

He didn't claim to invent the style, he didn't 'steal' it (how do you 'steal' wearing white socks and black pants) but he made it his trademark, expanded on it with crystals and he's probably the only person ppl can recognise by their feet.

MJ always acknowledges his inspiration - read moonwalk, or even the magic and the madness.

Can we stop arguing socks now.
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Yes but quite clearly Michael took some of the moves from Grease as well.

Ok heres one for you, have you ever heard MJ mention the name 'Jeffrey Daniel' ? :)
 
L.T.D. said:
Some of you people really are ridiculous.

Somehow saying Michael took a few things from John Travolta is comparing John Travolta to MJ?! How did you gather that from what I said?

Ill tell you how, because in all of your minds whenever anything even slightly slightly negative is said about Michael you all go on the ultra defensive! When its clearly clearly not needed.

Now your all trying to make out that I was comparing John Travolta to MJ in terms of talent!? WTF!? I just said that Michael took a few things from him! How you took that as me saying John Travolta was as good as MJ ill never ever know........

You guys are making fools out of yourselves, save your defending of Michael for when its really needed instead of twisting things I say and making out im saying things that I really never said. Did you hear me say John Travolta is as good or better than MJ!? No.........if that was the poitn I was trying to make. I would have just said that...no?

Its ridiculous! I swear sometimes you guys are just so infuriating.

You all would see the word 'steal' as being malicious because your looking for the worst in everything I say even if its only the slightest bit negative.

You all either need to read things more carefully, or at least ATTEMPT to understand what someone else is saying before you go on the defensive. But you just read something slightly negative and as soon as you hear that your brains just tell you to DEFEND! Well stop it........please.
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This references my post I think. The word "steal" itself IS negative in connotation. I'm not being defensive, I'm just taking words at their meaning.

Steal
v.tr.
  1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
  2. To present or use (someone else's words or ideas) as one's own.
However, I understand from what you've just said that you didn't mean to be negative, so I guess it's a just a case of poor word choice. In that case, nevermind, I get you :)
Peace :angel:
 
He took the backslide from street dancing? As MJ mentioned..MJ didn't claim to invent the moonwalk either, he said it came from kids on the streets he just enhanced it.

Jackson was a big fan in the 1970s of Soul Train - on which Jeffrey Daniel had been a featured dancer. According to Jackson's sister La Toya, Michael was a fan of Jeffrey Daniel's dancing and sought him out. He soon met, hired and learned from the musician/dancer/choreographer.

*Daniel became a renowned and respected pioneer of the West coast Street dance movement. He and his peers took a style of dance from the streets and clubs to the mainstream music and media world.

By 1987, Daniel was working with Michael Jackson who had always been a fan of Daniel's dance style since watching him on Soul Train in the 1970s. He was hired as co-choreographer on the "Bad" and "Smooth Criminal" videos in which he also starred with his "dance brothers" Geron "Casper" Candidate and Cooley Jackson.
He was later employed as a creative and choreography consultant on his world tours and the video Ghosts. Daniel's music and dance expertise was then employed when he became a consultant at the MJJ Productions record label to whom Brownstone, 3T and Men of Vision were signed. Michael Jackson flew Daniel back to live in the United States from Japan where Daniel had taken up residence since leaving the United Kingdom
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L.T.D. said:
Some of you people really are ridiculous.

Somehow saying Michael took a few things from John Travolta is comparing John Travolta to MJ?! How did you gather that from what I said?

Ill tell you how, because in all of your minds whenever anything even slightly slightly negative is said about Michael you all go on the ultra defensive! When its clearly clearly not needed.

Now your all trying to make out that I was comparing John Travolta to MJ in terms of talent!? WTF!? I just said that Michael took a few things from him! How you took that as me saying John Travolta was as good as MJ ill never ever know........

You guys are making fools out of yourselves, save your defending of Michael for when its really needed instead of twisting things I say and making out im saying things that I really never said. Did you hear me say John Travolta is as good or better than MJ!? No.........if that was the poitn I was trying to make. I would have just said that...no?

Its ridiculous! I swear sometimes you guys are just so infuriating.

You all would see the word 'steal' as being malicious because your looking for the worst in everything I say even if its only the slightest bit negative.

You all either need to read things more carefully, or at least ATTEMPT to understand what someone else is saying before you go on the defensive. But you just read something slightly negative and as soon as you hear that your brains just tell you to DEFEND! Well stop it........please.
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You didn't need to use the word STEAL. It's a strong and very negative word. That's why people are defending Michael.
 
Lol007 said:
So? What's your point?

Michael is a thief. Are you happy?
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Well you havent read all my posts........if you had then you would know what my point is. Im not going to feed your laziness by telling you what my point is now. Ill let you go back and read my posts :)
 
well, I watched Jeffrey's video, and I have to say there are like 4 or 5 moves only MJ copied from him, I don't consider that an influence either, but honestly I'm shocked to know that the moonwalk is not Michael's invention :O
 
L.T.D. said:
Oooo but im not talking about the moonwalk. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-isEu89aA
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Like I said.. MJ was a fan of his and worked with him. Since MJ was a fan of this guy and hired him to work with him, and used him when creating routines for his videos - Smooth Criminal and Bad.. I don't think he hid the fact that he influenced some of his moves. Fred Astaire had a choreographer, doesn't take away from his dancing ability. Listen to what Daniel says about MJ.

I don't know everything MJ ever said, so I don't know if he talked about JD but I have heard MJ when talking about his dancing and he often talks about different styles of dancing that were around at the times, he says there were some moves he does that were out there already, on the streets etc. He just saw them and did them brilliantly and everyone loved how he did it. He didn't say he invented it. Daniel probably didn't invent all those moves either.

MJ had a lot of influences.. he used moves and took inspiration from all sorts of dancers..from all different genres. He had something very special about him and had natural dance ability since he was very young. He didn't deny his influences and had plently of his own ideas
 
L.T.D. said:
Well you havent read all my posts........if you had then you would know what my point is. Im not going to feed your laziness by telling you what my point is now. Ill let you go back and read my posts :)
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I've read them. You claim that Michael stole stuff. I think "steal" is a very strong word that shouldn't be associated with Michael. You are doing your best to "show us" that Michael is a stealer.
 
jeez ya'll still going on about the John.T crap?:doh:
give it a damn rest already Mike is the king he didn't steal sh!t from anyone
I cant believe that I even have to say that on an MJ fan site but whatever
wasn't this thread about J.T?????
 
Mr.Ammar said:
well, I watched Jeffrey's video, and I have to say there are like 4 or 5 moves only MJ copied from him, I don't consider that an influence either, but honestly I'm shocked to know that the moonwalk is not Michael's invention :O
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Did you not know this?

My point was, Michael too learned a lot from other people and 'TOOK' a move or two from a few different people. especially Jeffrey Daniels, most of Smooth Criminal is Jeffreys stuff. But Michael has never even mentioned his name. Justin Timberlake also got a lot of things from Michael but doesnt allways acknowledge it. Just like Michael has not acknowledged Jeffrey Daniels for example. So it is not fair to not like Justin Timberlake for that when Michael had done the same thing.

Its not like Justin Timberlake has never Michael was a strong infulence on him anyway. Hes said it tons of times :\
 
Mr.Ammar said:
well, I watched Jeffrey's video, and I have to say there are like 4 or 5 moves only MJ copied from him, I don't consider that an influence either, but honestly I'm shocked to know that the moonwalk is not Michael's invention :O
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Are you? MJ always said it wasn't his invention..it was from the 'streets'. Some people say that a basic version of that move was being done in clubs in the 30s??! who knows..
 
Lol007 said:
I've read them. You claim that Michael stole stuff. I think "steal" is a very strong word that shouldn't be associated with Michael. You are doing your best to "show us" that Michael is a stealer.
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Im doing my best to show that Michael also also took a move or two from other people in the entertainment business. Just Like Justin Timberlake took a thing or two from Michael.

xXMJJXx said:
jeez ya'll still going on about the John.T crap?:doh:
give it a damn rest already Mike is the king he didn't steal sh!t from anyone
I cant believe that I even have to say that on an MJ fan site but whatever
wasn't this thread about J.T?????
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But he did.....He took the moonwalk from the street kids for one. Hes even said that himself. He got a lot of his moves from other dancers. You think he just made it all up himself? Of course he took a thing or two.
 
L.T.D. said:
Im doing my best to show that Michael also also took a move or two from other people in the entertainment business. Just Like Justin Timberlake took a thing or two from Michael.



But he did.....He took the moonwalk from the street kids for one. Hes even said that himself. He got a lot of his moves from other dancers. You think he just made it all up himself? Of course he took a thing or two.
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But Michael is respectful towards his influences. Have you heard Michael call James Brown a woman beater?
Justin said some nasty things about Michael...

If someone dares saying Michael invented the moonwalk, you will immediately correct that person. I wonder if someone claimed that Michael was a pedophile. Would you care?
 
L.T.D. said:
Did you not know this?

My point was, Michael too learned a lot from other people and 'TOOK' a move or two from a few different people. especially Jeffrey Daniels, most of Smooth Criminal is Jeffreys stuff. But Michael has never even mentioned his name. Justin Timberlake also got a lot of things from Michael but doesnt allways acknowledge it. Just like Michael has not acknowledged Jeffrey Daniels for example. So it is not fair to not like Justin Timberlake for that when Michael had done the same thing.

Its not like Justin Timberlake has never Michael was a strong infulence on him anyway. Hes said it tons of times :\
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Its not actually the same thing because Jeffery Daniel was EMPLOYED by Michael as co-choreographer for Smooth Criminal and Bad. So that was NOT MJ 'taking' or 'stealing'. JD worked for MJ. If MJ wanted to hide JDs influence he wouldn't have hired him! He acknowledged him by hiring him!

All artists have choreographers.. they don't always talk about them, but they aren't classed as stealing.

I haven't watched every interview MJ has ever done or heard everything he has ever said so he probably has talked about him somewhere too.
 
L.T.D. said:
Oooo but im not talking about the moonwalk. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-isEu89aA
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Somebody could have invented a dance move or a cerography which doesn’t give Michael less credit. In fact I see it this way that two brains are better than one, just like he acknowledges them they also return the favor by doing the same, he highlighted them on the map and gave some of them careers.

For example, let say you want to furnish your home and you found a beautiful set of furniture, but those items will never have their beauty shown unless an interior designer (artist) will mix colors together and chose items to go together in specific measurements to come up with a great finish, he didn’t make the furniture he just mixed them together to get a great looking final project. In music, just like Michael knows how to write and compose a song, he knows which dance moves will go with it, and your video confirms this.

Off-topic: Here is Jeffrey Daniel in another video from my archives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X2Fot4I094
 
L.T.D. said:
But he did.....He took the moonwalk from the street kids for one. Hes even said that himself. He got a lot of his moves from other dancers. You think he just made it all up himself? Of course he took a thing or two.
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do you think I don't know that?
Micheal said himself many times
this topic is not about this ok? you'v been talking about this crap since yesterday give it a rest already we get you're point
ya'll I think we have another Arty on our hands :sleep:
 
Mr.Ammar said:
but honestly I'm shocked to know that the moonwalk is not Michael's invention :O
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Michael Said that himself, there are many resources, check his interview with Oprah in 1993, also in a clip from Neveland when he was riding the train with kids, he also told them “You guys teached me how to do the Moonwalk”
 
L.T.D. said:
Im doing my best to show that Michael also also took a move or two from other people in the entertainment business. Just Like Justin Timberlake took a thing or two from Michael.
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I think it is not the same. Michael never duplicated someone, JT was very much a copy cat.
 
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