Latest on MJJC

I think the family is giving Murray his defense

marebear said:
Sometimes I feel like he won't get the recognition he deserves. Maybe some feel he is but I don't feel so sure about that. People tell me there is his music and all the good he did. But the media and others only focus on the negatives and one thing in particular about him. It's been that way for years even before he died. Sometimes I hesistate talking about Michael just because I am afraid what people will say. I have heard some really terrible things by people because of how the media portrayed him and now I just don't want to hear it anymore. It hurts. When Michael died I was shocked by people's reaction not the fans but the general public. He was treated so badly that it felt like it was a little too late the recognition people were giving him. I remember Al Sharpton saying where were they yesterday? and I thought the same thing.
Click to expand...

yeah..when you hear people cheering, up and down the halls on the day that he died, as if they won the lottery, and you hear people on the radio saying ' well, now, at least, little boys are safe', you tend to be an up in arms fan about everything.
 
Bo G , no drug sneddon asked to be admitted as evidence was recovered from mj's bedroom or bathroom . be sure of that .

he asked to introduce that letter from the miami doctor, and a prescription to Frank obtained from the bedroom or bathroom .


sneddon certainly did not mention any versed .

sneddon only evidence of demerol was the half empty bottle found somewhere OUTSIDE the main house unlike what TMZ reported .

I'll repeat that , because that what court document said . that what Sneddo said .
 
this is for LisaB:

^yes, I've thought about that every single damned day :(

it's too difficult to think about it. too many deep, dark caves in there. too much guilt that I feel already.

anyway, what's with the mods and the lack of access to the Investigative Forum? I don't understand why we don't have our access passwords yet. I asked for it a week ago, still haven't heard. is this just red tape or are they going through all our posts to determine who can or can't get in?

I don't understand the drill but whatever it is, it's not good. it's making us talk about this stuff here in these open forums, and I DON'T want certain people to read this (like one very intelligent, internet-savvy 12-year-old boy perhaps?).
 
vncwilliam said:
yeah..when you hear people cheering, up and down the halls on the day that he died, as if they won the lottery, and you hear people on the radio saying ' well, now, at least, little boys are safe', you tend to be an up in arms fan about everything.
Click to expand...

People did that? That's terrible. I have heard a few disgusting jokes like that but people cheering that's sick. That's why I blame the media for a lot of it. That's why I didn't like the interview with Janet. The little commentary on the side. Robin Roberts just talked about drugs. She kept saying it a lot when talking about Michael. Nothing else.
 
marebear said:
People did that? That's terrible. I have heard a few disgusting jokes like that but people cheering that's sick. That's why I blame the media for a lot of it. That's why I didn't like the interview with Janet. The little commentary on the side. Robin Roberts just talked about drugs. She kept saying it a lot when talking about Michael. Nothing else.
Click to expand...

of course. of course. so..if i am paranoid, call me paranoid. i don't care.
 
Omar was living there, Frank was living there , Vini was living there , many people were living there , Grace was living there .

Grace suffered from lupus also , so she must have been taking meds , but sneddon claimed those meds were for MJ .

Frank was staying in mj's bedroom , his things were there , and a prescription in his name was found there , what's the big deal ? yet tmz claims they belonged to mj .

Manual Riviera was an employee, they found an empty bottle prescribed for him in the library , yet they claimed it was for mj .

why people dont search before they post, is there any house without all kind of meds ? My grandmother got sick for a month and I swear she had a little pharmacy in her house , did we throw away the meds ? NO , why would we do that ?
 
vncwilliam said:
of course. of course. so..if i am paranoid, call me paranoid. i don't care.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I don't think that. I understand how the defenses go up because even in death it's the same thing that goes on. I just wish the focus would be more on the good things as much as possible. Not ignoring anything but he is gone now and that's painful enough.
 
oh we try. we all do. but at times it's hard to keep a cheery exterior when you're dying inside with grief and anger and frustration, ya know?
 
wendy2004 said:
The prosecution should open with this issue...the issue of abandonment and neglect and they should end with that. THIS should be the focus of their entire case. It's the one thing Murray can't manipulate, run away from or have a solid excuse for. NOTHING he can say would justify him leaving that room with Michael in such a vulnerable position. No medical professional is going to back Murray up on that. EVER!
Click to expand...
Exactly. Not only will he not be supported because he left the room, but he won't be supported because he gave such a dangerous drug in a home setting in the first place, where, by definition, there are no "other eyes" to make sure nothing goes wrong.

Now that I think about it, and in keeping with the topic of this thread, what the family or TINI says about MJ's drug use isn't that detrimental, imo. It's fodder for media consumption and whatever, but when it comes down to a court of law, there are standards.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right and the jury pool isn't tainted by this "he was a drug addict" mantra. It really shouldn't matter either way, as you say, since what happened on that one fateful day is all that is relevant.

and Thank you! There's really No excuse. No matter how anyone wants to slice this. I have a feeling even the prosecution would LOVE to somehow beat Michael up in some way while going after Murray. Two birds over one case?
Click to expand...
Oh gosh. I hope not. :(

But again, when one realizes the reason Michael Jackson died was becuz NO ONE was around when he stopped breathing, that's all that may matter...whether he was clean, an addict, a recovering addict, healthy addict...whatever ppl want to call it. Th ONE crucial detail WHY Michael isn't here is becuz a doctor left the room...which is outright neglect and disregard for human life to me. Murray was supposed to be there. Risky behavior, unethical, irresponsible, or whatever, all he had to do was BE THERE! It would have given Michael at least a starting chance at survival.
Click to expand...
Exactly! ALL he had to do was oversee his patient with caution. Walking out of the room and making phone calls, (if they were indeed made before Murray discovered MJ wasn't breathing,) is negligent, given the circumstances. MJ should've been watched like a hawk, but wasn't.

All the extraneous issues, I say save it for the civil suits where there's a different standard of proof or for tell-all books where speculation and various opinion can run amok.
Click to expand...
:yes:

I like the way you pinned it down, because it really DOES all boil down to what happened in those last few hours. Everything else is fodder for the tabloids.
 
Soundmind said:
Omar was living there, Frank was living there , Vini was living there , many people were living there , Grace was living there .

Grace suffered from lupus also , so she must have been taking meds , but sneddon claimed those meds were for MJ .

Frank was staying in mj's bedroom , his things were there , and a prescription in his name was found there , what's the big deal ? yet tmz claims they belonged to mj .

Manual Riviera was an employee, they found an empty bottle prescribed for him in the library , yet they claimed it was for mj .

why people dont search before they post, is there any house without all kind of meds ? My grandmother got sick for a month and I swear she had a little pharmacy in her house , did we throw away the meds ? NO , why would we do that ?
Click to expand...

very good points. but you know how the media is with MJ.
 
LisaB said:
You know, if MJ wasn't prepping for this tour, nothing like this would have happened. If he never had to get up the next day for rehearsal, he wouldn't feel the need to get some sleep at all costs. If, if, if.....
Click to expand...


Well, at some point Michael would have been involved in some kind of project that may have required him to be on a schedule. We know he considered a few things and was simply waiting for something "special" (if one believes Kenny Ortega). It could have been TII or a residency in Vegas or something else he was working on that could have led to this. We have no way of knowing what would have happened if only Murray had stayed in that room. This whole thread and topic may have been nonexistent. I suppose the tragedy is that his insomnia may have never been properly addressed or dealt with. And I say "may" only becuz we really don't know how far (short of using propofol) Michael may have gone in trying to combat the problem and whether those attempts, if any, failed and he gave up trying. If this worked for him safely before it's kinda hard for me to judge him for thinking it could work again. Extreme? Absolutely. Seems like he was convinced that this was the only solution...if done properly. And again, if that's how he felt, odds are he would have used it for some other project. False sense of security? Maybe. The doctor who first started this "treatment" or agreed that it was proper needs his *** ****.
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
Kai Chase comes to mind though. Her name was found on something, and she said she felt "used" by that, since she didn't know anything about any medication.
Click to expand...


Soundmind said:
darling Kai was not used at all, the search warrant said the detectives were told by family members and from media reports that jackson was using aliases to obtain drugs . they said he reportedly used the names of memebrs of his entourage to obtain drugs, they named all his bodyguards, and his employees at his mansion including kai, his son prince as possible aliases ,from there came the 19 aliases mentioned in the media .

they specifically wrote " He MAY have used them as aliases ".

Kai was asked " how do you feel about him using your name to obtain drugs ?" they phrased it like it was a fact.

she also said the detectives interviewed here and did not mention any use of her name as alias. do you believe if indeed they found anything in her name they would not have asked her about it ?
Click to expand...
Thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes I only hear bits and pieces and don't have the time to look into all the different things going on/being said.

WEIRD that some family members would say he was using aliases to get drugs. I just wonder WHY they would say that. :scratch:
 
Michael was killed. He is the victim. And fans still have to defend Michael not Murray or others. Unbelievable. And extremely sad.

I'm sorry Michael
 
indranee said:
oh we try. we all do. but at times it's hard to keep a cheery exterior when you're dying inside with grief and anger and frustration, ya know?
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. People say think about the good and he is watching over us and it all sounds nice but there this anger and emptiness I feel inside. I am glad the movie did well and people are listening to his music but why couldn't they care before he died? Then there are others who make him out to be one way based on his past. No benefit of the doubt of him and his health. They think Michael was using drugs all the time. These people think the worst of him without knowing anything. I am not saying I know anything but I am not going to jump to conclusions either. I just wish he was here to see the praise he is getting now when I think it would have meant a lot more when he was alive.
 
marebear said:
I know what you mean. People say think about the good and he is watching over us and it all sounds nice but there this anger and emptiness I feel inside. I am glad the movie did well and people are listening to his music but why couldn't they care before he died? Then there are others who make him out to be one way based on his past. No benefit of the doubt of him and his health. They think Michael was using drugs all the time. These people think the worst of him without knowing anything. I am not saying I know anything but I am not going to jump to conclusions either. I just wish he was here to see the praise he is getting now when I think it would have meant a lot more when he was alive.
Click to expand...

Many of us are very long time fans. I am his age and have been a fan that long. I used to watch the Jackson 5 cartoon when I was younger and I heard him on the radio, saw him on television and basically saw him grow up in 'real' time.

There was never a time when I thought less of him and there was never a time I didn't see through the tabloids and the nasty press, but there were times when Michael did 'odd' things and these are the things that started the mess. When he first came out with "Thriller" everyone could see his nose changed and he was so handsome and he came out with these videos that were amazing and I was so proud of Michael and he took the world by storm.

Things started to change when he got older and things seemed to get stranger and the press got meaner. Sometimes I would wonder why he didn't just come out and talk to more people and set the record straight but there were times when he was just silent and I think his silence hurt him at those times. I saw his skin get lighter and lighter and didn't understand why but I too wondered what was his motive here. Not a clue about Vitiligo back then. Nothing was said. The facial changes and the skin lightening and the silence....

This is how I saw it. Did I question it? To myself I wondered....and I didn't believe the tabloid junkie stuff.....but I was a fan. I still loved him and felt there were 'reasons' that he must have had and just let it be. I guess others could not just 'let it be'.
 
Beachlover said:
Many of us are very long time fans. I am his age and have been a fan that long. I used to watch the Jackson 5 cartoon when I was younger and I heard him on the radio, saw him on television and basically saw him grow up in 'real' time.

There was never a time when I thought less of him and there was never a time I didn't see through the tabloids and the nasty press, but there were times when Michael did 'odd' things and these are the things that started the mess. When he first came out with "Thriller" everyone could see his nose changed and he was so handsome and he came out with these videos that were amazing and I was so proud of Michael and he took the world by storm.

Things started to change when he got older and things seemed to get stranger and the press got meaner. Sometimes I would wonder why he didn't just come out and talk to more people and set the record straight but there were times when he was just silent and I think his silence hurt him at those times. I saw his skin get lighter and lighter and didn't understand why but I too wondered what was his motive here. Not a clue about Vitiligo back then. Nothing was said. The facial changes and the skin lightening and the silence....

This is how I saw it. Did I question it? To myself I wondered....and I didn't believe the tabloid junkie stuff.....but I was a fan. I still loved him and felt there were 'reasons' that he must have had and just let it be. I guess others could not just 'let it be'.
Click to expand...

I became a fan when Thriller came out. I was 6 years old. I am 33 now. I noticed things but I let it go because I loved him and he wasn't hurting anyone. Whenever he gave his explanation for something I accepted it and moved on. The media over the years have been very mean. I could never understand that. I always thought why they couldn't focus on something else. He was treated like he wasn't a human being. It still can feel that way to me. I wish he was here because all these good things happening for him is just bittersweet now.
 
Beachlover said:
Many of us are very long time fans. I am his age and have been a fan that long. I used to watch the Jackson 5 cartoon when I was younger and I heard him on the radio, saw him on television and basically saw him grow up in 'real' time.

There was never a time when I thought less of him and there was never a time I didn't see through the tabloids and the nasty press, but there were times when Michael did 'odd' things and these are the things that started the mess. When he first came out with "Thriller" everyone could see his nose changed and he was so handsome and he came out with these videos that were amazing and I was so proud of Michael and he took the world by storm.

Things started to change when he got older and things seemed to get stranger and the press got meaner. Sometimes I would wonder why he didn't just come out and talk to more people and set the record straight but there were times when he was just silent and I think his silence hurt him at those times. I saw his skin get lighter and lighter and didn't understand why but I too wondered what was his motive here. Not a clue about Vitiligo back then. Nothing was said. The facial changes and the skin lightening and the silence....

This is how I saw it. Did I question it? To myself I wondered....and I didn't believe the tabloid junkie stuff.....but I was a fan. I still loved him and felt there were 'reasons' that he must have had and just let it be. I guess others could not just 'let it be'.
Click to expand...

please. I'm sorry but what you wrote above just doesn't jive with you telling me that I was "paid by the prosecution", ya know?

just. does. not. jive.

I am 45 years old. I've been an MJ fan for a looooooooooong time. I met him when I was 24 and he was 29. I would never, ever question anything he did. why? because he did nothing so horrendously wrong for me to question his integrity or his ability to tell the truth. and I would never ever question the integrity of a fan of his. what you said to me was worse than anything I've heard on this forum. I'm sorry, but I had to say it because something does not compute here. mods, you can delete this post if you want but I had to have my say.

thanks,
indrani.
 
I personally am just plain SICK of Janet Jackson and all her phoniness.
Hey, that's just me.
girldance.gif
 
It just FUNNY to me that this thread all started becuz SOME OF YALL think Janet bad mouth Michael about past so-called "drug habit".

But when Latoya or other family members said something beyond stupidity. It get sweep under the rug as "oh they didn't know him well" r some excuse.
 
potpot said:
It just FUNNY to me that this thread all started becuz SOME OF YALL think Janet bad mouth Michael about past so-called "drug habit".

But when Latoya or other family members said something beyond stupidity. It get sweep under the rug as "oh they didn't know him well" r some excuse.
Click to expand...


I think it has to do with Janet being the closest to Michael and some people expected more from her. However, if she was telling what she thought was true, she would be a liar if she said she was not worried about Michael sometimes over drugs.

Funny thing about it, when Jermaine said he never saw any signs of Michael having a drug problem on all his interviews and they did not stage any intervention, I remembering seeing fans say that he was in denial about Michael's drug habit and should tell the truth. And that they did nothing to help him because the family only cared about money.

Jermaine is not my favorite person for several reasons and I take everything he says with a grain of salt, but of all the siblings he was the only one who outright deny any drug use. And fans mocked him for it.

In a situation such at this, you really cannot win.
 
potpot said:
It just FUNNY to me that this thread all started becuz SOME OF YALL think Janet bad mouth Michael about past so-called "drug habit".

But when Latoya or other family members said something beyond stupidity. It get sweep under the rug as "oh they didn't know him well" r some excuse.
Click to expand...

Oh no it doesn't get swept under the rug. Look back through the search function - you'll see reactions to the family's statements.

Mind you, the majority of MJ fans are Janet fans as well, some more than others.

Personally, I love & adore Janet, and I am a huge supporter of hers, always, but I think she shouldn't speak about MJ when it comes to this. Seriously, she's not speaking from a rational an educated viewpoint - and it's understandable.

She doesn't know all the truth to MJ as close as she was to him - and yes, she's still grieving - and will for a very long long time. But what she doesn't realize is that what she said does help Murray's defense.
 
Sirena STILL how da hell it HELPS Murray case??? Please tell me.. What the damning Evidences up and left AFTER Janet talk what???
 
Ramona122003 said:
I think it has to do with Janet being the closest to Michael and some people expected more from her. However, if she was telling what she thought was true, she would be a liar if she said she was not worried about Michael sometimes over drugs.

Funny thing about it, when Jermaine said he never saw any signs of Michael having a drug problem on all his interviews and they did not stage any intervention, I remembering seeing fans say that he was in denial about Michael's drug habit and should tell the truth. And that they did nothing to help him because the family only cared about money.

Jermaine is not my favorite person for several reasons and I take everything he says with a grain of salt, but of all the siblings he was the only one who outright deny any drug use. And fans mocked him for it.

In a situation such at this, you really cannot win.
Click to expand...

You are Sooo right about that, it silly that what it is.
 
potpot said:
Sirena STILL how da hell it HELPS Murray case??? Please tell me.. What the damning Evidences up and left AFTER Janet talk what???
Click to expand...


Read parts of the forum and you see where people are coming from.

Although, the worry is unfounded for reasons I have stated on this same forum.
 
Ramona122003 said:
I think it has to do with Janet being the closest to Michael and some people expected more from her. However, if she was telling what she thought was true, she would be a liar if she said she was not worried about Michael sometimes over drugs.

Funny thing about it, when Jermaine said he never saw any signs of Michael having a drug problem on all his interviews and they did not stage any intervention, I remembering seeing fans say that he was in denial about Michael's drug habit and should tell the truth. And that they did nothing to help him because the family only cared about money.

Jermaine is not my favorite person for several reasons and I take everything he says with a grain of salt, but of all the siblings he was the only one who outright deny any drug use. And fans mocked him for it.

In a situation such at this, you really cannot win.
Click to expand...

that's interesting. and that's putting it mildly.

i've never had time to talk about Jermaine..cus i was too busy defending MJ...but yes..i've seen the mocks against Jermaine.
 
I'm SORRY BUT I dont see how the family hurt this case... Knowing all the crazy stuff some of the family has said (not including Janet becuz people on here think she DANGEROUS LOL)... The Evidence, the timeline all of this is FAR MORE Important..

But don't get me wrong do want them to hush especially Latoya...
 
Soundmind said:
so what doctor shopping are you talking about?
Click to expand...
I mentioned yesterday that it is when someone shops around for different medications from different doctors, but it can also be when you shop around for a doctor to do something that other doctors refuse to do. (Like administer propofol in a home setting.)

I know MJ knew Murray from 2006, so in that sense he wasn't out shopping around for a doc to give him propofol, but when MJ wanted something he shouldn't of had, Murray was unscrupulous enough to give it to him. I wish to God that MJ had never met that unscrupulous "doctor".
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
I mentioned yesterday that it is when someone shops around for different medications from different doctors, but it can also be when you shop around for a doctor to do something that other doctors refuse to do. (Like administer propofol in a home setting.)

I know MJ knew Murray from 2006, so in that sense he wasn't out shopping around for a doc to give him propofol, but when MJ wanted something he shouldn't of had, Murray was unscrupulous enough to give it to him. I wish to God that MJ had never met that unscrupulous "doctor".
Click to expand...

Yet, he had doctors give this to him in Germany and others here have said it was 'by the book' and fine. I never thought this was 'ok' and some one this forum will argue that the poor man needed sleep and was desperate.

I happen to agree that I am sorry he used it and he himself knew it was not wise as many had told him so.

I think if it was not Murray, it would have been another. What just shocks me is that it was not done carefully and I'm surprised MJ allowed that since he knew the drug too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top