Latest on MJJC

I think the family is giving Murray his defense

MEDICAL MALPRACTICE:
Law. failure of a professional person, as a physician or lawyer, to render proper services through reprehensible ignorance or negligence or through criminal intent, esp. when injury or loss follows.

I hope some of you will take the time to CLICK ON THE LINK AND WATCH VIDEO of a lawyer and physician discuss the legal implication of medical malpractice:
The Michael Jackson Case: Do Doctors Get Away With Murder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVCvppI384
 
CherubimII said:
MEDICAL MALPRACTICE:
Law. failure of a professional person, as a physician or lawyer, to render proper services through reprehensible ignorance or negligence or through criminal intent, esp. when injury or loss follows.

I hope some of you will take the time to CLICK ON THE LINK AND WATCH VIDEO of a lawyer and physician discuss the legal implication of medical malpractice:
The Michael Jackson Case: Do Doctors Get Away With Murder?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVCvppI384
Click to expand...

Involuntary manslaughter is an unintentional killing that happened during the commission of a misdemeanor or because of gross negligence (carelessness). Involuntary manslaughter carries a sentence of 2 to 4 years.
 
potpot said:
I'm SORRY BUT I dont see how the family hurt this case... Knowing all the crazy stuff some of the family has said (not including Janet becuz people on here think she DANGEROUS LOL)... The Evidence, the timeline all of this is FAR MORE Important..

But don't get me wrong do want them to hush especially Latoya...
Click to expand...


To respond your earlier claim - and what Ramona said, please read this post, but here's the jist:

Murray's defense (or at least what it looks like based on his police statement) is: "the hardcore addict boss of mine made me give him propofol because I was afraid of getting fired and oops, he died" defense. And Murray will get a lesser charge if this is believable to the jury & get a slap on the wrist.

And based on her interview - Janet could be called as a witness to the defense to reconfirm and corroborate Murray's defense on record what she said about Michael in her interview with Robin Roberts. That he was in denial & hardheaded & had a drug problem.

Now thankfully the coroner's report paints a whole other picture - and the prosecution will prove that Michael was not an addict of any substance, as his organs showed no evidence of propofol or other substance abuse.

That's why.
 
Beachlover said:
Involuntary manslaughter is an unintentional killing that happened during the commission of a misdemeanor or because of gross negligence (carelessness). Involuntary manslaughter carries a sentence of 2 to 4 years.
Click to expand...

Murray can't get 2-4 years - what he did by ignoring his patient for hours and pumping MJ with enough drugs to kill an elephant was above and beyond "gross negligence".
 
Sirena said:
Murray can't get 2-4 years - what he did by ignoring his patient for hours and pumping MJ with enough drugs to kill an elephant was above and beyond "gross negligence".
Click to expand...


To be fair, we do not know the actually amount. So, you should be using terms "enough drugs to kill an elephant." We are trying to get just the facts, not speculations.
 
Ramona122003 said:
To be fair, we do not know the actually amount. So, you should be using terms "enough drugs to kill an elephant." We are trying to get just the facts, not speculations.
Click to expand...

I think I was being accurate since I'm quoting what Dr. Drew Pinksy said on CNN. He said that MJ was found with amounts that could "kill an elephant."

And I'm not speculating, because the amount of drugs Murray pumped into Michael were toxic & lethal amounts.

But whatever, Ramona, I'm seriously not in the mood to argue this point again for a second day.
 
****Michael Jackson's Death Ruled 'Homicide'*****
Revised New link:

CNN Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyGkJAZLscw


Video link
CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5263216n&tag=related;photovideo

Latest Update “Healthy Autopsy”
Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy8ZVCP-DBw&feature=fvw

(CBS) More details about what happened in the final hours of Michael Jackson's life are surfacing, especially what occurred during the critical 81 minute gap between when Los Angeles police say his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, found Jackson not breathing to when he finally called 911.
Police say that, after Murray found Jackson unconscious, he called his office and stayed on the phone for a full half-hour, "Early Show" national correspondent Hattie Kauffman reported on the broadcast Wednesday.

A police affidavit says Murray found Jackson not breathing at 11 a.m. the day the singer died. But the 911 call wasn't made until 12:21 p.m. And now, cell phone records show Murray made 47 minutes worth of other calls.

At 11:18 a.m., Murray made a 32-minute call to his office in Las Vegas.
At 11:49 a.m., he called another Las Vegas phone number for three minutes.
And at 11:51 a.m., he called Houston for 11 minutes.
Then at 12:12 p.m., he called a Jackson associate for one minute.
Kauffman reported the police affidavit shows these calls happened while Jackson was unconscious in his bed and Murray was performing CPR.

I believe Michael Jackson was already dead before Murray called his office workers around 9:20am and asked them to
remove "something" from his warehouse storage.

I also believe Michael Jackson's body was removed, and placed in another room with the temperature raised very high, and i.v. fluids given
so it would be difficult to determine the time of death.
 
Last edited:
If the right people speak out this the case will be slove and Michael murder case will be close and His ass along with the others will be lock up.
 
i'd like to ask 2 thngs the people here who are aware with medical questions:

1. when you use Propofol - how you feel after that? do you feel rested and ready to work. is it easy to get up and start your day? or you are feeling tired, down ?


2. after useing Propofol or/and other sedatives how you act after them? are you high, more energetic, or you act slowly and need more time?
 
Ramona122003 said:
To be fair, we do not know the actually amount. So, you should be using terms "enough drugs to kill an elephant." We are trying to get just the facts, not speculations.
Click to expand...

Wait, this is a speculative thread at best. You cannot tell someone how to speak/type with their opinions. As long as they're not disrespecting and breaking the rules. Please stop telling people what they should and should not type. This thread isn't for facts only....

Plus a doctor used that very term on TV when describing Michael's autopsy findings on CNN.
 
Sirena said:
I think I was being accurate since I'm quoting what Dr. Drew Pinksy said on CNN. He said that MJ was found with amounts that could "kill an elephant."

And I'm not speculating, because the amount of drugs Murray pumped into Michael were toxic & lethal amounts.

But whatever, Ramona, I'm seriously not in the mood to argue this point again for a second day.
Click to expand...

I think this is quote you are referring to:

"Dr. Drew, if you look at the drugs that Dr. Murray allegedly gave Jackson, does there seem to be any medical reason that he would need all of these? And I just want to show our viewers again this list: Valium at 1:30 a.m., Ativan anti-anxiety drug at 2:00, Versed, a sedative at 3:00 a.m., Ativan again and then you have Versed again at 7:30, then you have Propofol. What do you make of that?

DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: I don't make that he's treating insomnia. That's for sure; there is simply no rational basis for this combination for the treatment of insomnia. There's protocol on earth that would include these substances.

However, what I also draw from this is that he probably was tolerant and then potentially even addicted to these substances and maybe in withdrawal which is why he could tolerate doses that literally would take down an elephant.

COOPER: Take down an elephant and we're talking doses that large?

PINSKY: Yes, I mean Anderson, last time I was with you I kidded with you being a lightweight. I mean, these are truly massive doses of medication. To give 2 milligrams of Ativan to a man that weighs under 150 pounds on two separate occasions -- the average person, that would put them to sleep for the rest of the day, no problem. It would stop them in their tracks. To add Versed, add Propofol, now you've got dangerous and incredible concentrations of medication"

the link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/24/acd.02.html
 
And here's a legal analyst from the same transcript I link above:

"JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It means legally taking the life of another. It means Michael Jackson did not die of natural causes, it means he was not a suicide, it means the government has concluded that someone else killed him.

There are a wide variety of charges within a homicide. Intentional homicide, he can get the death penalty for. Negligent homicide is a much less serious crime. It's an unintentional negligent killing. Certainly he seems to be in that end of the spectrum.

No one seems to suggest that Conrad Murray intentionally killed Michael Jackson.

COOPER: But by doing something which medically is unsound he could be charged with what? Second-degree murder?

TOOBIN: No, it would be some version of manslaughter. An unintentional killing, but you can still go to prison for several years.

Keep in mind, though, that these sorts of medical situations, it's very rare that they give rise to criminal charges.

Malpractice suits, yes, losing your medical license, yes. But an actual criminal case resulting in a jail sentence? Very unusual.
 
Annie123 said:
I think this is quote you are referring to:

"Dr. Drew, if you look at the drugs that Dr. Murray allegedly gave Jackson, does there seem to be any medical reason that he would need all of these? And I just want to show our viewers again this list: Valium at 1:30 a.m., Ativan anti-anxiety drug at 2:00, Versed, a sedative at 3:00 a.m., Ativan again and then you have Versed again at 7:30, then you have Propofol. What do you make of that?

DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: I don't make that he's treating insomnia. That's for sure; there is simply no rational basis for this combination for the treatment of insomnia. There's protocol on earth that would include these substances.

However, what I also draw from this is that he probably was tolerant and then potentially even addicted to these substances and maybe in withdrawal which is why he could tolerate doses that literally would take down an elephant.

COOPER: Take down an elephant and we're talking doses that large?

PINSKY: Yes, I mean Anderson, last time I was with you I kidded with you being a lightweight. I mean, these are truly massive doses of medication. To give 2 milligrams of Ativan to a man that weighs under 150 pounds on two separate occasions -- the average person, that would put them to sleep for the rest of the day, no problem. It would stop them in their tracks. To add Versed, add Propofol, now you've got dangerous and incredible concentrations of medication"

the link: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0908/24/acd.02.html
Click to expand...

So, he was not referring to just the Propofol but all the medications then. And yes, it was a lot and I thought that immediately and that he had built up a tolerance but its very hard on this forum to say that MJ was obviously taking a lot of medication because everyone says he was not because of his autopsy results (no organ damage) and it seems to upset people here.

I said somewhere that the 10 of Valium with the Versed alone would knock most people out of this world. Even one or the other might do it. We already know that these drugs were not meant for insomnia.
 
Annie123 said:
And here's a legal analyst from the same transcript I link above:

"JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: It means legally taking the life of another. It means Michael Jackson did not die of natural causes, it means he was not a suicide, it means the government has concluded that someone else killed him.

There are a wide variety of charges within a homicide. Intentional homicide, he can get the death penalty for. Negligent homicide is a much less serious crime. It's an unintentional negligent killing. Certainly he seems to be in that end of the spectrum.

No one seems to suggest that Conrad Murray intentionally killed Michael Jackson.

COOPER: But by doing something which medically is unsound he could be charged with what? Second-degree murder?

TOOBIN: No, it would be some version of manslaughter. An unintentional killing, but you can still go to prison for several years.

Keep in mind, though, that these sorts of medical situations, it's very rare that they give rise to criminal charges.

Malpractice suits, yes, losing your medical license, yes. But an actual criminal case resulting in a jail sentence? Very unusual.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I feel this too but I am hoping for more.
 
Toobin was the one who reminded people infact he pleaded people the first day mj died not to forget the crimes he was accused of , he kept insisting over and over and over again mj was someone with huge problems and probably a pedo . he kept saying:" don't forget all the boys this man slept with . I was there in court room and heard alot of horrible testimony against this man ."


he is far from being fair , he defended murray , he called mj junkie , he said the coroner would discover all kind of drugs and painkillers in his system, he said murray should not be blamed for what happened because mj asked for it and murray was there at the wrong time . he said he felt very sorry for murray .he kept pleading people to wait for the coroner's results and cause of death because he had no doubt in his mind , mj took many drugs without murray's knowledge .

he also insisted mj was not a good father , and people should stop talking about his good parental skills, he was a junkie .

he always suggested the coroner would find drugs in mj's system prescribed by other doctors and when finally the report came with no drugs but what murray had given that night , Toobin shifted the attention to " he tried to wean him off it but the guy was a junkie he insisted he wanted it , I feel for this doctor "
 
Last edited:
Beachlover said:
So, he was not referring to just the Propofol but all the medications then. And yes, it was a lot and I thought that immediately and that he had built up a tolerance but its very hard on this forum to say that MJ was obviously taking a lot of medication because everyone says he was not because of his autopsy results (no organ damage) and it seems to upset people here.

I said somewhere that the 10 of Valium with the Versed alone would knock most people out of this world. Even one or the other might do it. We already know that these drugs were not meant for insomnia.
Click to expand...


you are saying that it's possible nothing to show in his body that he was addict? I am not trying to contradict you, just asking because i don't know much about this medicines. Please explain your poit.

and would be greatful if you also answer this:

1. when you use Propofol - how you feel after that? do you feel rested and ready to work. is it easy to get up and start your day? or you are feeling tired, down ?


2. after useing Propofol or/and other sedatives how you act after them? are you high, more energetic, or you act slowly and need more time?

DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: I don't make that he's treating insomnia. That's for sure; there is simply no rational basis for this combination for the treatment of insomnia.
Click to expand...

3. is it normal a cardiologist to do the anestesiologist 's job ? i mean does this person know all this drugs he has to deal with?



and just a thought in my mind...

there are some reports from ppl around Michael, telling he was afraid from needles, then how even vitamins he gets through IV ? for example i hate gel-creams and use drops to help my hay fever. He could take pills, instead of IV...


and how is possible Michale to use a doctor without licence in Cali. and UK? for $150 000 i am sure he could find and least 1 anastesiologist with licence. this doesn't give me rest!
 
The thing that still bugs me is how on earth would have propofol been continued to be adminstered once they got to England. Drugs in England are so tightly regulated and prescriptions are also very tightly regulated. To practice medecine in the UK you need to registered the the GMC, would Murray have done that? You would not be able to get propofol from a pharmacy in the UK so did Murray have another plan about how to help MJ to sleep once they reached the UK.
 
sloride said:
The thing that still bugs me is how on earth would have propofol been continued to be adminstered once they got to England. Drugs in England are so tightly regulated and prescriptions are also very tightly regulated. To practice medecine in the UK you need to registered the the GMC, would Murray have done that? You would not be able to get propofol from a pharmacy in the UK so did Murray have another plan about how to help MJ to sleep once they reached the UK.
Click to expand...

I was wondering that too. I am thinking he was not going to go to England with Michael but I don't know.
 
I heard or read more than once that he was suppose to go to London with Michael. He was hired to take care of him. That could be wrong.
 
Zori said:
you are saying that it's possible nothing to show in his body that he was addict? I am not trying to contradict you, just asking because i don't know much about this medicines. Please explain your poit.

and would be greatful if you also answer this:

1. when you use Propofol - how you feel after that? do you feel rested and ready to work. is it easy to get up and start your day? or you are feeling tired, down ?


2. after useing Propofol or/and other sedatives how you act after them? are you high, more energetic, or you act slowly and need more time?



3. is it normal a cardiologist to do the anestesiologist 's job ? i mean does this person know all this drugs he has to deal with?



and just a thought in my mind...

there are some reports from ppl around Michael, telling he was afraid from needles, then how even vitamins he gets through IV ? for example i hate gel-creams and use drops to help my hay fever. He could take pills, instead of IV...


and how is possible Michale to use a doctor without licence in Cali. and UK? for $150 000 i am sure he could find and least 1 anastesiologist with licence. this doesn't give me rest!
Click to expand...

Propofol isn't 'sleep'. As far as I know, though you suffer little effects from it afterwards, it isn't like a good nights rest. Drugs affect each person differently. No professional will tell you that being knocked out will replace sleep.

The amount of drugs and the length of use of them and which drugs are all factors that determine how much wear and tear on your body. Each drug is 'cleared' differently through our bodies. Some drugs are more damaging to the liver and kidneys. Some people have other diseases that make damage to these organs more likely. For instance, a person with diabetes has to be much more careful with certain medications and in some instances they can not give IV injected dye to people without risking shutting down the kidneys totally.

3. is it normal a cardiologist to do the anestesiologist 's job ? i mean does this person know all this drugs he has to deal with?

Any physician can administer medication. They are trained to do so. They are supposed to look them up and find out about them beforehand. In any case, using this particular drug, especially in a home setting is way out there but I don't know if that alone was illegal since he can say he did it as an 'off label' treatment for this client. That alone isn't an issue.

However, from what the evidence we have been told...he did not do it practicing a safe standard of care. That part is an issue.
 
sloride said:
The thing that still bugs me is how on earth would have propofol been continued to be adminstered once they got to England. Drugs in England are so tightly regulated and prescriptions are also very tightly regulated. To practice medecine in the UK you need to registered the the GMC, would Murray have done that? You would not be able to get propofol from a pharmacy in the UK so did Murray have another plan about how to help MJ to sleep once they reached the UK.
Click to expand...
I am with you on this one.
 
Soundmind said:
Toobin was the one who reminded people infact he pleaded people the first day mj died not to forget the crimes he was accused of , he kept insisting over and over and over again mj was someone with huge problems and probably a pedo . he kept saying:" don't forget all the boys this man slept with . I was there in court room and heard alot of horrible testimony against this man ."


he is far from being fair , he defended murray , he called mj junkie , he said the coroner would discover all kind of drugs and painkillers in his system, he said murray should not be blamed for what happened because mj asked for it and murray was there at the wrong time . he said he felt very sorry for murray .he kept pleading people to wait for the coroner's results and cause of death because he had no doubt in his mind , mj took many drugs without murray's knowledge .

he also insisted mj was not a good father , and people should stop talking about his good parental skills, he was a junkie .

he always suggested the coroner would find drugs in mj's system prescribed by other doctors and when finally the report came with no drugs but what murray had given that night , Toobin shifted the attention to " he tried to wean him off it but the guy was a junkie he insisted he wanted it , I feel for this doctor "
Click to expand...
HOw does Toobin know what kind of father MJ was or anything else. I think people like this make themselves look foolness. I think people with brain know this idoit does not know what he is talking about.
 
Soundmind said:
Toobin was the one who reminded people infact he pleaded people the first day mj died not to forget the crimes he was accused of , he kept insisting over and over and over again mj was someone with huge problems and probably a pedo . he kept saying:" don't forget all the boys this man slept with . I was there in court room and heard alot of horrible testimony against this man ."


he is far from being fair , he defended murray , he called mj junkie , he said the coroner would discover all kind of drugs and painkillers in his system, he said murray should not be blamed for what happened because mj asked for it and murray was there at the wrong time . he said he felt very sorry for murray .he kept pleading people to wait for the coroner's results and cause of death because he had no doubt in his mind , mj took many drugs without murray's knowledge .

he also insisted mj was not a good father , and people should stop talking about his good parental skills, he was a junkie .

he always suggested the coroner would find drugs in mj's system prescribed by other doctors and when finally the report came with no drugs but what murray had given that night , Toobin shifted the attention to " he tried to wean him off it but the guy was a junkie he insisted he wanted it , I feel for this doctor "
Click to expand...

Toobin is an as/shole hopefully he'll have a slow and painful death asap.
 
Cameras in the Courtroom / another thread starter

Cameras in the courtroom?? I sure would like to see.
 
Zori said:
Beachlover, thank you for answering me!
Click to expand...

My pleasure. Just always remember when seeking 'the truth' you have to be very careful because it is very hard when we see something we want to see and take that as fact and then ignore what we don't want to hear. No matter, the truth is the truth and thats always best to stick to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top