Latest on MJJC

I think the family is giving Murray his defense

BabeBeMine said:
Had MJ not demaned Propofol he never would have got it and still would be here. The person demanding it is also responsible. I don't mean to sound harsh but it's the truth.

Find another more healthy solution to handle your sleeping problem
Click to expand...

Who is the source for your information? Particularly that Michael "demanded" propofol from Dr. Murray.

Please posta link to the source.
 
Re: Janet Jackson Interview

Ramona122003 said:
No offense, but being call a drug addict does nothing to hurt Michael in the long run. I can name a list off the top of my head about musicians and artists who are respect by the general public who are all addicts. Elvis was a drug addict, Whitney Houston is a crack addict, Ray Charles was a heroin addict, and The Beetles all took acid and weed. Do not even get my started rock groups.

From what I have seen only the media and fans are forming at the mouth about drugs and addiction. The general pubic at large does not care. People listen to Snoop Dogg and he admits to smoking weed, along with other stuff. People love the Temptations even though two of the original singers were an alcoholic and a crack addict. Ike Turner did crack and most people do not care about that. It is what he did to Tina that makes people hate him.

The point being, given everything else Michael has been call, drug addict is hardly hurtful. Quite frankly, people would had been more surprise if they found out he was not an addict with the life he led.
Click to expand...

True also its very easy to get hooked on painkillers I know a collegue of mine was hooked on painkillers that can br bought over the counter. So its very easy to get that addiction. Michael was taking pain meds for his scalp fo many years and then for his back during the trial. He maybe have been hooked on them but I really do think he was overdosed on the last day.
 
As far as I can tell, everyone except Nurse Lee, who is saying Michael wasdemanding propofol and was addicted to it, has a motive for making him look like an addict. And why did Michael call Nurse Lee, 4 days before he died saying that one side of his body was hot and the other cold? Why didn't he consult Dr. Murray since he was then his personal physician? Murray isn't telling the whole truth. Some things just don't add up. And for those who are saying Murray couldn't have done this on purpose, I would consider this, if they make Michael out to be an addict who demanded Murray give him the drug cocktail, then Murray will probably get off easy. I am not saying, I know what a motive would be, but in the past, desire for Michael's wealth and fame has brought out the worst in people and they have done the most despicable things. Nothing would suprise me at this point.
 
BabeBeMine said:
Lets be realistic here. Had Dr Murray refused MJ still would have got it. PERIOD

When you have a lot of money you can get anything when it comes to drugs. You can blame the Dr..YES...But the person searching and searching for that drug also is responsible for whatever bad potentially happens because they were the ones badly searching for it.
Click to expand...
And this is what upset about MJ however IT DOES NOT MATTER. If you get a DOCTOR, it is the DOCTOR responsibity to do what is right for the patient and NOT give them these drugs. IT does NOT matter if the person search and ask for it. That is why MURRAY get the blame. HE WAS A DOCTOR who has to stand by MED ETHICS. I work in law enforcement with cops and it does not matter if someone gets rude with you as cop, you are NOT entitled to take your gun and shot that person. COPS ARE also group who has STANDARDS to stand by as well.
 
callmerose said:
As far as I can tell, everyone except Nurse Lee, who is saying Michael wasdemanding propofol and was addicted to it, has a motive for making him look like an addict. And why did Michael call Nurse Lee, 4 days before he died saying that one side of his body was hot and the other cold? Why didn't he consult Dr. Murray since he was then his personal physician? Murray isn't telling the whole truth. Some things just don't add up. And for those who are saying Murray couldn't have done this on purpose, I would consider this, if they make Michael out to be an addict who demanded Murray give him the drug cocktail, then Murray will probably get off easy. I am not saying, I know what a motive would be, but in the past, desire for Michael's wealth and fame has brought out the worst in people and they have done the most despicable things. Nothing would suprise me at this point.
Click to expand...



I doubt Murray will get off easy if he said Michael wanted that cocktail. Because he is a doctor. He is not suppose to give in to patient demands even if they get on their knees and beg, damn the paycheck.

If he does paint Michael as any kind of addict, the questions from the state will be:

"If he was such an addict, why did you give him what he asked for?"

"Why didn't you call for help for his addiction?"

"Why did you give him a cocktail of drugs which are not meant to treat insomnia and then left the damn room?"


If he says he did it all to keep his job, Murray would be a glorified drug dealer who cared more about money than the life and well-being of his patient and not a doctor who put the patient before themselves. I doubt any jury would give him a free pass on that. Especially since their love one could be at the hands of doctors like this.
 
terrell said:
And this is what upset about MJ however IT DOES NOT MATTER. If you get a DOCTOR, it is the DOCTOR responsibity to do what is right for the patient and NOT give them these drugs. IT does NOT matter if the person search and ask for it. That is why MURRAY get the blame. HE WAS A DOCTOR who has to stand by MED ETHICS. I work in law enforcement with cops and it does not matter if someone gets rude with you as cop, you are NOT entitled to take your gun and shot that person. COPS ARE also group who has STANDARDS to stand by as well.
Click to expand...

I agree. Murray is the one who had a responsibility to say no if Michael asked for this and did not. And if not Murray, nobody else would have given it to Michael either if they were on the up and up, tons of money or not. But Murray should have said no and even gone so far as to quit at that point since he wants to blame this on Michael. Because if Murray was so desparate for money, he could have earned it elsewhere rather than to do what he did. And he knew just as much if not more about the possible consequences of giving Michael this stuff as Michael did if Michael wanted it. So to me, Murray has no excuse.
 
Last edited:
A doctor or person of authority had the power to do something about it. Everyday General Practitioner's, consultants and psychiatrists see patients with dependencies and take positive action to weane them off ......Michael too a patient needed that...and when the doctor didn't step in...and I mean for when he was struggling to sleep that's where it is ridiculous.
 
As I've said in another thread, the human body grows a tolerance to certain things over time, there's no telling if and what Michael had used to combat his sleeping problem previously. So again, for some to act as if they do and to just label him as being demanding and basically careless for his well being, isn't particularly the way to go about it.


I personally don't believe Michael "demanded" anything either.
 
wendy2004 said:
For the record, Nurse Lee never said Michael "begged" for propofol. That was the media's spin on her account. They used the word "begged". That was never her word. And she was the sole person stating over and over that she saw nothing indicative of "addict" behavior from Michael. Although she never stated she specifically tested him for drugs or whathaveyou, she was clear that her lab results showed nothing in his lab work that would indicate he was abusing any substances.
Click to expand...
Exactly.

And Murray still has no excuse for leaving the bedside of anyone to whom he'd just given propofol to...whether that person begged for it, asked for it or whatever.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. It is up to the DOCTOR to do the responsible thing and take care of a patient the best possible way. Administering propofol certainly wasn't it!

He can say Michael begged all he wants. Still doesn't justify leaving him unattended for any amount of time. He's got more problems to deal with besides whether or not Michael begged for it, like accounting for being on the phone during the time he claims (as well as his lawyer) that he just happened to enter the room and find Michael not breathing and not being able to call 911; security calling JOE before they decide to call 911, not telling paramedics NOR medical personnel at UCLA that he'd given MJ propofol, yada yada, the list goes on. Again, even Dr. Kevorkian went to jail and he, too, did did what his patients asked/begged him to do. Murray's not wiggling outta this one unless the prosecution is made up of the Keystone cops and drop every ball there is. I feel the more Murray tries to wiggle, the more he makes himself look like a man trying to shirk blatant responsibility. It's like when you catch someone in a lie and instead of giving up they continue to look you in the eye and say "I'm not lying". You just wanna.... :aggressive:
Click to expand...
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
I'm sorry but...

How do we even KNOW that MJ was "demanding" Propofol??

Can a long Time Drug Addict have healthy Organs?

If Mike was such a hardcore drug addict then i think the whole world needs to be on drugs.
I wanna take whatever he's taking.

But i totally agree with the person who posted this thread.

come on... the only person in the family he would usually call would be Mama Katherine.
the other Jacksons, they would go on years without a single phone call.
 
Last edited:
It was his responsibility (Murray) to say no. I guess ethics, morals and value of life mean nothing for $150,000 a month.
 
MicHil said:
To believe in Murray.... i wonder which one of his stories should i believe in...

his first one, second, third, or tenth one?

or his "I was at the wrong place and the wrong time" story....
Click to expand...

What stories have you heard from Dr Murray exactly? He hasn't spoken openly about this to anyone but the police right after this whole thing happened. I think the press keeps changing the story but this man has said nothing.

If we fans really should understand one thing and one thing only is that the press paints the story they want us to see. It is not always the truth.

I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but he has not said anything about the case.
 
marebear said:
It was his responsibility (Murray) to say no. I guess ethics, morals and value of life mean nothing for $150,000 a month.
Click to expand...

Sure, just as it was Michaels not to ask and not to throw 150,000. a month in some doctors face.
 
Beachlover said:
What stories have you heard from Dr Murray exactly? He hasn't spoken openly about this to anyone but the police right after this whole thing happened. I think the press keeps changing the story but this man has said nothing.

If we fans really should understand one thing and one thing only is that the press paints the story they want us to see. It is not always the truth.

I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but he has not said anything about the case.
Click to expand...



All statement were given in warrants by the LAPD, which steamed from the two interviews they did with Murray. Apparently, he gave at least two timelines and a different change of events to why he left the room.

In his first statement he said he went to relieve himself for 10 minutes and came to find Michael not breathing. Murray, however, fail to mention the 45 minutes phone calls he made during the same time period that he claim he was only gone for 10 minutes. So, he changed the time in which he found Michael.

The press had made nothing up on Murray so far. This is stuff found in the LAPD search warrants, which are quotes from Murray himself. In the tox that was leaked with his statement and all the drugs pumped into Michael's body, Murray's own lawyer said that much that was in the warrant was true, but he wanted the amount of the drugs in Michael's body.
 
Ramona122003 said:
All statement were given in warrants by the LAPD, which steamed from the two interviews they did with Murray. Apparently, he gave at least two timelines and a different change of events to why he left the room.

In his first statement he said he went to relieve himself for 10 minutes and came to find Michael not breathing. Murray, however, fail to mention the 45 minutes phone calls he made during the same time period that he claim he was only gone for 10 minutes. So, he changed the time in which he found Michael.

The press had made nothing up on Murray so far. This is stuff found in the LAPD search warrants, which are quotes from Murray himself. In the tox that was leaked with his statement and all the drugs pumped into Michael's body, Murray's own lawyer said that much that was in the warrant was true, but he wanted the amount of the drugs in Michael's body.
Click to expand...

The press has made nothing up on Murray? Are you 100% sure of that?
 
Beachlover said:
Sure, just as it was Michaels not to ask and not to throw 150,000. a month in some doctors face.
Click to expand...

The doctor could have asked for that amount. I heard he asked for a lot but was told it was too much. Michael didn't give the propofol to himself. Michael may have asked for it but ultimately it was Murray who made the decision to give it.
 
marebear said:
The doctor could have asked for that amount. I heard he asked for a lot but was told it was too much. Michael didn't give the propofol to himself. Michael may have asked for it but ultimately it was Murray who made the decision to give it.
Click to expand...

And that may well be true. None of us were there when he spoke to Murray regarding the financial end of things.
 
Beachlover said:
And that may well be true. None of us were there when he spoke to Murray regarding the financial end of things.
Click to expand...

I wish Michael had made different choices but I don't blame him for trusting this guy. Because that's what we do when we go to a doctor. I don't trust easily but when I see a doctor I trust that they know what they are doing and they care about my health. That is what they are suppose to do. That's why I blame Murray for what happened. He knew the risks and was careless in my opinion.
 
Beachlover said:
And that may well be true. None of us were there when he spoke to Murray regarding the financial end of things.
Click to expand...

None of us were there but Frank Dileo said in the interview with Raffles that Murray asked for more than $150,000 and Frank and Michael wouldn't go along with the higher amount which Frank joked was enough to buy a hospital in England.

And why did you say in your previous post that Michael "threw the money in the doctors face"? What did you mean by that?
 
callmerose said:
None of us were there but Frank Dileo said in the interview with Raffles that Murray asked for more than $150,000 and Frank and Michael wouldn't go along with the higher amount which Frank joked was enough to buy a hospital in England.

And why did you say in your previous post that Michael "threw the money in the doctors face"? What did you mean by that?
Click to expand...

My implication here is that Murray needed money and when someone has no money its easy to get caught up in something you might not normally do because you are desperate for the money.
 
Beachlover said:
The press has made nothing up on Murray? Are you 100% sure of that?
Click to expand...


The press has been very good about not making blind guesses against Murray. The only questionable stories I remember hearing is that Murray fall asleep while monitoring Michael and did CPR. Also Murray was hire to give Michael painkillers and other drugs.

They may have been more, but it was the press trying to figure out what happen and when Michael was a hardcore drug addict. However, all the more recent information came from search warrants from Murray's own statements and his lawyer.
 
Beachlover said:
My implication here is that Murray needed money and when someone has no money its easy to get caught up in something you might not normally do because you are desperate for the money.
Click to expand...


To the point that you abandon all moral principles, the safety of your patient, your entire career, all for money.

I think the funniest and most poetic thing about this whole thing is despite everything Murry did, he still will not get paid for his services. So, he essentially did all this for nothing and he pretty much is going to lose everything.
 
Beachlover said:
What stories have you heard from Dr Murray exactly? He hasn't spoken openly about this to anyone but the police right after this whole thing happened. I think the press keeps changing the story but this man has said nothing.

If we fans really should understand one thing and one thing only is that the press paints the story they want us to see. It is not always the truth.

I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but he has not said anything about the case.
Click to expand...


His lawyer says enough for him.

Beachlover said:
Sure, just as it was Michaels not to ask and not to throw 150,000. a month in some doctors face.
Click to expand...

there is no signed 150,000 contract! even so Murray asked AEG not MICHAEL.
 
Ramona122003 said:
To the point that you abandon all moral principles, the safety of your patient, your entire career, all for money.

I think the funniest and most poetic thing about this whole thing is despite everything Murry did, he still will not get paid for his services. So, he essentially did all this for nothing and he pretty much is going to lose everything.
Click to expand...

I had not really thought about that. That is a lesson in the wages of greed!
 
Ramona122003 said:
1. constant; habitual; inveterate: a chronic liar.
2. continuing a long time or recurring frequently: a chronic state of civil war.
3. having long had a disease, habit, weakness, or the like: a chronic invalid.
4. (of a disease) having long duration (opposed to acute ).


Meaning, he did it alot over a period of time. No actual timeframe is given for how long he abused propofol.
Click to expand...

uhh, by the way, that particular report was NOT about Michael. it was about a chronic Propofol abuser and addict.

read it again:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/4leaa3ah8q75pndc/
 
Ramona122003 said:
To the point that you abandon all moral principles, the safety of your patient, your entire career, all for money.

I think the funniest and most poetic thing about this whole thing is despite everything Murry did, he still will not get paid for his services. So, he essentially did all this for nothing and he pretty much is going to lose everything.
Click to expand...

I don't know Ramona. I used to work in Flatbush Brooklyn and I saw someone stab someone else for a hefty bag of empty soda cans. Could not have been more than a dollar or two.
 
Ramona122003 said:
To the point that you abandon all moral principles, the safety of your patient, your entire career, all for money.

I think the funniest and most poetic thing about this whole thing is despite everything Murry did, he still will not get paid for his services. So, he essentially did all this for nothing and he pretty much is going to lose everything.
Click to expand...

who knows if someone is paying him "under the table" and this is all just an act to look half innocent... though i must say he fails pretty bad.
 
Beachlover said:
Sure, just as it was Michaels not to ask and not to throw 150,000. a month in some doctors face.
Click to expand...

uhh, excuse me, but Michael can throw money at whomever HE wants. he does not have the "hippocratic oath" governing HIS behavior.

he was in "pain". you profess to be a health practitioner. as such, you should know what sleeplessness can do to a person.

so stop already with the "let's blame Mike" bit. you're not fooling anyone. are you Dr. Murray?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top