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I think the family is giving Murray his defense

indranee said:
uhh, excuse me, but Michael can throw money at whomever HE wants. he does not have the "hippocratic oath" governing HIS behavior.

he was in "pain". you profess to be a health practitioner. as such, you should know what sleeplessness can do to a person.

so stop already with the "let's blame Mike" bit. you're not fooling anyone. are you Dr. Murray?
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THANK YOU!

I can't believe what I'm reading. Really.

So now the standard for a PROFESSIONAL doctor is measured against someone who would stab another person for a hefty bag of empty soda cans???

Does the word "professional" mean anything to those so-called "professionals" AT ALL???

Good Lord!!! :doh:
 
indranee said:
uhh, excuse me, but Michael can throw money at whomever HE wants. he does not have the "hippocratic oath" governing HIS behavior.

he was in "pain". you profess to be a health practitioner. as such, you should know what sleeplessness can do to a person.

so stop already with the "let's blame Mike" bit. you're not fooling anyone. are you Dr. Murray?
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Please, no character assassination here. You can disagree with someone's opinion without making fun of them. You would not want people doing that to you, so you should extent the same respect to others.
 
Beachlover said:
I don't know Ramona. I used to work in Flatbush Brooklyn and I saw someone stab someone else for a hefty bag of empty soda cans. Could not have been more than a dollar or two.
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Did you just go from advocating compassion for Murray to equating him to someone who would kill for a bag of soda cans?????
 
Okay last post on this thread.

it's scary what people would do for money.
So say... "a Doctor would even give dangerous/lethal drug to his/her patient"... to "a Doctor would even kill his/her patient for money"

... hmmmm.... yea
kbye.
 
MicHil said:
who knows if someone is paying him "under the table" and this is all just an act to look half innocent... though i must say he fails pretty bad.
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I doubt he being paid 'under the table'. If there was any increase in Murray's finances, the LAPD will be on it and tracing where the money is coming from. If Murray did do this on purpose, the big boss would be a stupid fool to give him any money. Especially since Murray is suppose to be broke.

Also, he picked the dumbest method ever to kill someone. I could had made a better assassin than Murray if I wanted to kill Michael and make it look like a drug overdose. Which is sad because I don't even have a medical license.

Also, this may be a black thing, but Murray strikes me as a rat who would sell out his own mother to keep from going to jail. So if he was working for someone, he would had sang like the Harlem Boys Choir by now, imo.
 
callmerose said:
Did you just go from advocating compassion for Murray to equating him to someone who would kill for a bag of soda cans?????
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I didn't say you are wrong. I strong disagree with Beachlover comparing a doctor's oath with their patient as the same as some guy wanting free sodas.

However, I do not know Beachlover and her background, so I have no idea why she thinks the two are the same. Maybe because since she works in the medical field she feels more compassionate for the doctor. I honestly do not know.

We can disagree without attacking someone's character. I strongly disagree with members here all the time, but I refuse to question their character or even their sanity at times because I do not know them.

In either case, I think Beachover is wrong in the comparison and Murray should not be compare to some common street thug, Especially, since he actually had a good paying career and he throw it all away for money.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Please, no character assassination here. You can disagree with someone's opinion without making fun of them. You would not want people doing that to you, so you should extent the same respect to others.
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Since when is asking someone if they are Dr. Murray "character assassination"? The internet is anonymous so any poster could be Murray, or one of his cohorts, or a family member, or a colleague, or a friend. We just don't know.

It was a legitimate question, given the things that've been said here.
 
Ramona, they were empty soda cans, so, that is even worse than wanting free drinks. They were being collected for recycling, which would pay only a pittance.

I always found it ironic too that Murray did something so evil for money, and then he ended up not getting paid.
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
Since when is asking someone if they are Dr. Murray "character assassination"? The internet is anonymous so any poster could be Murray, or one of his cohorts, or a family member, or a colleague, or a friend. We just don't know.

It was a legitimate question, given the things that've been said here.
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I really do hate when people do that because it is disrespect to assume anything. I was called by a TINI supporter an employee or lover of AEG because I questioned them.

Which piss me off by the way, because I gave them all the benefice of the doubt and they return my gesture by mocking me and instead of given facts to my questions, they resulted to questioning me as a person.

Yes, the internet is anonymous so everyone's truthfulness is questioned, but you should not downright make accessions base on a few comments.
 
I get what you're saying Ramona, because I was right there with you in your opinion that it was out of line to blame Kenny and everyone else involved with the show for "killing" Michael. In that case I do believe the accusatory questions towards Kenny, et al. were inappropriate because they pointed a finger of guilt. But here we have ample reason to question the poster, because he/she seems to do nothing but defend Murray, even though Murray ADMITTED giving Michael the fatal dose of propofol.

WHY is Murray still being defended by some people???
 
I think what I said about the soda cans was misunderstood so let me explain. We were discussing what people will do for money. We were discussing that Murray was being paid 150,000.00 a month to work for Michael (I assume that is the amount that was stated so lets just say thats what he was supposed to have been paid or whatever).

I stated that I had seen a man stabbed for a bag of empty soda cans They are worth a nickel each (five cents) and there was a black plastic bag full of them. So, my point was simply that people do senseless things for money was all. It was not a defense against Murray, but a simple statement meaning that desperate people do desperate things.

It is now known that Murray needed money. I question his motives as well as the next guy. I don't know what this man was thinking or the kind of stress he was uinder in his life. I think he thought he was going to make a lot of money and didn't think things through very well past that. I did not in any way mean to defend his actions, but state a reason for doing this job for the stated amount
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
I get what you're saying Ramona, because I was right there with you in your opinion that it was out of line to blame Kenny and everyone else involved with the show for "killing" Michael. In that case I do believe the accusatory questions towards Kenny, et al. were inappropriate because they pointed a finger of guilt. But here we have ample reason to question the poster, because he/she seems to do nothing but defend Murray, even though Murray ADMITTED giving Michael the fatal dose of propofol.

WHY is Murray still being defended by some people???
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From what I had experience, there is a mentality among some people who always feels that the victim played some part in their own destruction.

If a woman get rapes, they always asked; what time was she out, what was she wearing, why wasn't she in populated areas, and so on. Because if any of the above happen, then the girl helped bring this on themselves and should had known better.

If a person in some random shooting gets killed they asked; what time were they out, what were they doing, who was with them, and so on. If they find out that the person in question was out at 12am with some of his friends on the street corner, people would say he brought this on themselves because they should had been inside.

This line of thinking is called Just World Syndrome. It is when the victim is at fault for what happen to them, despite the cruelty of the crime. It makes the person feel that the same thing can never happen to them because they do not live that lifestyle. So if something bad happen, it must be that person's fault.

Which is why some people blame Michael for his own death because he put himself in that situation and it makes them feel better that it would never happen to them.
 
I understand where you are coming from Beachlover, and I really appreciate your technical knowlege. There is a lot of emotion and grief about Michael and I think that it is hard for people to look beyond those very basic and powerful feelings to the kinds of things you are saying.

Beachlover said:
I think what I said about the soda cans was misunderstood so let me explain. We were discussing what people will do for money. We were discussing that Murray was being paid 150,000.00 a month to work for Michael (I assume that is the amount that was stated so lets just say thats what he was supposed to have been paid or whatever).

I stated that I had seen a man stabbed for a bag of empty soda cans They are worth a nickel each (five cents) and there was a black plastic bag full of them. So, my point was simply that people do senseless things for money was all. It was not a defense against Murray, but a simple statement meaning that desperate people do desperate things.

It is now known that Murray needed money. I question his motives as well as the next guy. I don't know what this man was thinking or the kind of stress he was uinder in his life. I think he thought he was going to make a lot of money and didn't think things through very well past that. I did not in any way mean to defend his actions, but state a reason for doing this job for the stated amount
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Dr. Murray or not, beachlover likes to point the finger. so I pointed it right back at him/her.

so sue me. (besides, he/she didn't deny the charge, did he/she?)

anyway, whatever Dr. Murray did and did not do, there is one thing he sure did. he killed Michael Jackson. whether or not he gets punished for it, we shall see. so far, I am not holding my breath.

as for Mike. he's already paid for his mistakes. excuse ME if I don't rub salt in his already gaping wound, ya know? so leave him the HELL alone.

(sorry to sound so graphic and all, but some people in this thread need to know what they're doing is going too far).
 
LauraLovesMJ said:
Since when is asking someone if they are Dr. Murray "character assassination"? .
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I would consider it character assassination if someone thought that I was Conrad Murray.

But I asked the same queston, so I am guilty too!
 
Just so I'm clear on the logic, you're saying Murray's defense is it that because the family's interventions failed, that justified him murdering Mike? :unsure:
 
Sirena said:
But the prosecution has a very compelling and winnable case against Murray:

1) ACUTE intoxication of Propofol, which means there was malice to kill MJ, or gross negligence

2) Organs were healthy - not indicative of any addictive abuse.

So the Jacksons can talk all they want. The DA has the coroner's report which has the real evidence.
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I was just going to say that, keep in mind of what sirena just said and don't read into something that's not there.

Don't matter they have all the proof to put Dr. Murray in jail when heading to court.
 
Are some of you joking, Janet didn't give dr. murray any kind of defense.

Dr. Murray knew the rules of giving michael the medicine period and he knew the guidelines it should be given to any person in the hospital, he was not trained to give it and he was not in the hospital.

It sound more like to me some michael jackson fans are given the okay thumb for dr. murray to get off from going to jail and saying because michael had a issue with certain medicine this is a green light for doctor murray to get off without even paying close attention to giving michael this medicine the correct way.

I'm starting believe some of you don't read but the gossip pages and don't do a full research on the whole detail of everything.

Stop putting his family down period because their speaking about what they had to deal with, this family is upset at what happen and they want to speak out and they want doctor murray to go to jail.
 
Beachlover said:
What stories have you heard from Dr Murray exactly? He hasn't spoken openly about this to anyone but the police right after this whole thing happened. I think the press keeps changing the story but this man has said nothing.

If we fans really should understand one thing and one thing only is that the press paints the story they want us to see. It is not always the truth.

I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but he has not said anything about the case.
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hmm... yea, you are correct Murray hasn't spoken publicly, only to "thank his supporters" >.> how noice of him. But his lawyer has spoken publicly on a number of occasions FOR MURRAY. Which was a dumb idea on Murray's part because I don't think his lawyer's brain is working fully. But anyways yes, so basically these are "stories" that Murray's lawyer has said (speaking for Murray).

1). Murray "sees" Michael collapse and then takes him to bed where he performs CPR (the WRONG way might I add)
2). Murray "finds" Michael not breathing, yells for Prince, to watch him perform CPR (THE WRONG WAY) on his own father! wtf is up with that! you don't do that to a child! Murray has a screw loose.
3). Murray gives Michael this "cocktail" full of crap and then at 10:40 A.M. Michael supposedly "demands propofol" mhmmmm yea I believe that, surreee -_- Then Murray sits and watches Mike for about 10 minutes, then he goes to the bathroom for about 2 or 3 minutes, he comes back sees Michael is not breathing. But oh wait he has some phone calls to make, so Mike is just gonna have to wait >.< He makes 3 phone calls for about 47 minutes. He then yells for prince (prince doesn't go upstairs) The bodyguards run upstairs, and then one of THEM call 911. While someone is calling 911, Murray begins doing CPR ON THE BED, WITH ONE HAND (THE WRONG WAY)

& what did Murray's Lawyer say to the outrage of Murray doing CPR the wrong way?
and I quote "the bed was firm" dfhjsdfhkj.

the last story is mainly from the leaked affidavit, which is from when Murray talked to the police. So, there are MANY stories which are from Murray, he just decides to change them all the time. And now people seem to forget his other "stories" and people keep sticking to the story that Mike was a long time drug addict. Yet, people ignore the FACTS that his organs were good! Meaning he was not a long time drug addict.

and about Michael paying Murray 150,000 a month. Yeaa first Murray wanted 1 million. AEG and mike said no way, and they got him to go down to 150,000 which is STILL way too much. But anyways. He not gettin shit, because neither Mike, nor AEG signed the contract So HAHAHA Murray no $$ for your strippers.

Also if Mike wanted Murray to be his Doc. SOOOO bad, like people are claiming, don't you think he would have signed that contract already? So Murray would begin to get paid? And why didn't AEG do a background check on him? they would have found out that he already killed someone. AEG was the one paying him, not Mike.
 
amyzabeth said:
Also if Mike wanted Murray to be his Doc. SOOOO bad, like people are claiming, don't you think he would have signed that contract already? So Murray would begin to get paid? And why didn't AEG do a background check on him? they would have found out that he already killed someone. AEG was the one paying him, not Mike.
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To be fair, no criminal charges were made against Murray on killing a patient, so AEG may had looked into it, saw not wrong doing and moved on. They could had told Michael about the incident and Michael still wanted him, so they said yes. If a contract was signed, it would most likely have the clause it in. Also, I am sure AEG ran a background check since you need one for almost any job, especially one with a high price superstar.

We do not know why his contract was delay and if this goes to court, they would most likely explain that point. Also, although AEG was paying him Michael was the requested and hired him much like he did with his entire crew like Kenny. AEG was pretty much just the pocket book.

On a side note, Prince did not see Murray perform CPR on his dad. Toy said that, but Michael's personal chief, who was actually there, said Prince never went upstairs. He stood downstairs with the others and prayed.
 
callmerose said:
I would consider it character assassination if someone thought that I was Conrad Murray.

But I asked the same queston, so I am guilty too!
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If I had been making the rationalizations for Murray that Beachlover has, then the question wouldn't surprise me, especially on a Michael Jackson fan site. :)

I don't think we are guilty of anything, for just wondering and asking.
 
Ramona122003 said:
From what I had experience, there is a mentality among some people who always feels that the victim played some part in their own destruction.

If a woman get rapes, they always asked; what time was she out, what was she wearing, why wasn't she in populated areas, and so on. Because if any of the above happen, then the girl helped bring this on themselves and should had known better.

If a person in some random shooting gets killed they asked; what time were they out, what were they doing, who was with them, and so on. If they find out that the person in question was out at 12am with some of his friends on the street corner, people would say he brought this on themselves because they should had been inside.

This line of thinking is called Just World Syndrome. It is when the victim is at fault for what happen to them, despite the cruelty of the crime. It makes the person feel that the same thing can never happen to them because they do not live that lifestyle. So if something bad happen, it must be that person's fault.

Which is why some people blame Michael for his own death because he put himself in that situation and it makes them feel better that it would never happen to them.
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I do understand the psychology behind it. It gives us back a sense of "control" when we live in a world where a lot of things are just out of our control. And in this situation, (to be more specific,) Michael did play a role, BUT he was relying on the expertise of his doctor, an assumed professional, and that is where Michael went wrong. He trusted an unscrupulous "doctor".

Unfortunately, with some posters, they seem to want to go beyond blaming Michael for his part in the whole mess, and want to instead have us feel sympathy and understanding for Murray. Example: you can't always blame the doctor because patients can get very pushy when wanting pain medication, (Don't know WHAT that has to do with propofol though. :unsure:) and also now we're supposed to at least "understand" Murray's actions because he was "desperate for money". Sorry but, this kind of thinking just doesn't cut it, especially from someone claiming to be a professional.
 
Beachlover said:
My pleasure. Just always remember when seeking 'the truth' you have to be very careful because it is very hard when we see something we want to see and take that as fact and then ignore what we don't want to hear. No matter, the truth is the truth and thats always best to stick to.
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Exactly because of this i would like to hear as much as possible and see other opinions (they see things that i don't or just knowlage i haven't). For sure i have my believes and my desires. but trying to be as much as possible open for the truth.
Another very important thing is that we are very different. What is common for the ppl in my country is not for ppl in another country. so what is normal for me, does not necessary normal for murray, for example. So where he is coming from or where Michael is coming from asking for propofol (IF he asked) could be even far from my imaginations.

So that is why i have so many questions. and thank you again for answering!:flowers:
 
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