elusive moonwalker
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your contridicting yourself.u question everything that the chief said b4 interms of mj being long gone when the got they got there etc
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Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option
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your contridicting yourself.u question everything that the chief said b4 interms of mj being long gone when the got they got there etc
elusive moonwalker
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anyway i think you are just fishing. just like others did during the trial
Beachlover
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Here is one of those situations where we would have to determine if the time line was recorded wrong, Murray reported it incorrectly, or he flat out lied, or his lawyer is really saying these things or the media says his lawyer is saying these things and no one has actually said anything. I really don't believe the news a lot of times so I DO have issue with that.
You may be entirely right and I don't say it is not possible.
Beachlover
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No. I am not contradicting myself.
I believe what the chief said is what he said. I also believe that if the responders actually came on a scene where the person was clearly long dead as everyone keeps saying here, they had an obligation to report that immediately, which they did not do. Either they didn't do it because that was not what they found or they blindly listened to a crazy doctor and the chief didn't want to go on record having his responders listening to a crazy doctor when in fact they knew it was wrong.
Ramona122003
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The media has nothing to do with it. I watched live when the lawyer changed the timeline. Not to mention, Murray never mentioned the phone calls. Going by his own statements, he left to pee for 10 minutes during that same time he was doing those phone calls.
If he did get the timeline wrong, that is a big mistake. Also, when the warrant was release to the public, Murray's lawyer didn't correct the timeline again. He said it was correct, but they didn't release the amount. So, either the lawyer forgotten or it was a lie on the air.
elusive moonwalker
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yes it need to be on tape otherwise its a he said she said. he was asked the times when he gave mj the dip he said around 10.40 he said he went to the bathroom and came back around approx 10.50 to find mj. he gave alot of info about the times of things in the interview precies minutes of everything h e gave mj. as soon as the police get his phone records and it becomes public knowledge and knowledge to murray shock horror he changes the timeline.if thats not a suspicious coincedence then tell me what is.
Ramona122003
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Even if it was wrong in your version of things, why did Murray have the MTs work on Michael for 45 minutes if he was still alive? Why didn't they rush him to the hospital to save him. There is no medical reason for what Murray did.
elusive moonwalker
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so u believe the medics took murrays orders and did what they did. as u also believe what the chief said. the issue is? there is none.your just trying to find something to doubt what has been said by the chief
elusive moonwalker
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exactly. if he had a pulse etc they would move him straight away.ther were no injuries that needed stabilising to stop internal bleeding for example u only keep him here that long when u are trying to get a pulse back as they do in a hospital.murray made them keep trying. this was MJ he was the doc incharge.even a non medical person knows mj would ahve been a veggie if he had survived. there was no point after well over an hour.
Beachlover
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What do you call it when the police follow leads? It is fishing. That is what you do to find answers sometimes. You ask questions. You piece together the things that make sense and you put the things that do not make sense in another pile.
In the end what you have hopefully is a clearer answer as to the time line of events and the actual cause of events that happened. I don't deny that at times I am fishing for answers to the questions I don't have answers for.
I read the warrants and I see what the police are investigating and I see what they list as the cause of death. That is on a legal document. The coroners report after that was 'leaked' through Associated Press and I DO believe that it was likely true but we were also told "The full and final autopsy report and the complete toxicology report "will remain on security hold at the request of the Los Angeles Police Department and the Los Angeles County district attorney," the release said.
All that means to me is that they are not letting us know everything in the report so whatever we think we know can change when the full report is released.
CNN reported Earlier this week, Murray's lawyer disputed the final section of the timeline.
"Dr. Murray simply never told investigators that he found Michael Jackson at 11 a.m. not breathing," Chernoff said. "He also never said that he waited a mere 10 minutes before leaving to make several phone calls. In fact, Dr. Murray never said that he left Michael Jackson's room to make phone calls at all."
Do I know what is true or not? No. I don't.
I can read till I turn blue but if I was not there with Michael every day watching everything he did for the week up to his death or months, I don't really know. I don't get to hear what the responders really said. Sure, I can read what the chief says, but thats not the same thing.
There was no video camera in the room when this happened so I don't know for sure what happened or when. Neither does anyone else here.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/08/28/jackson.autopsy/index.html
Here was where I got my quotes from.
Beachlover
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You misunderstand. I think the responders should have spoken up and they didn't and all it did was waste time.
elusive moonwalker
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well thats what murray said to the police as pre the warrant. tell me its a conincedence the timeline changed when it came out that hed had made the phonecalls. the phonecalls he never told the police about.u seem to be open minded enough to dismiss everything that incriminates murray but not the other way
around
chernoff is an idiot. no murray never said about waiting 10 mins b4 making phonecalls. cause he never told the police he made those calls in the first place. the police only found out about it when they got his phone records
the police never said he did. the whole thing is about him making said phonecalls in the fisrt place. regardelss of where they were made. this is b4 he added in the going to the toliet bit
Beachlover
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That is my point. The responders just blindly listened to a crazy doctor?
Ramona122003
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The tox has all the drugs Michael had taken, even the minor ones that was just detectives. The only thing that is missing is the amount.
Even Murray's lawyer admitted that the tox was correct, but he wanted the amounts. If anything, the full tox will be the nail in the coffin.
If cases were only solved with video camera, everyone would be able to get away with a crime. It is a mix of observation that leads many to the final conclusion. So far, Murray is as guilty as sin.
You didn't answer my question earlier as well.
elusive moonwalker
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so in the scheme of things it means nothing. uve gone from dening the whole mj was long gone with lividity (how ever u spell it) to what the medics say doesnt really matter.u cant waste time when hes long gone already. they did as ordered by the doctor in attendence.
Ramona122003
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So, it is the responders' fault for listening to Murray, even if he is the ranking doctor. They should had blindly ignored him, even if it is against the rules.
You are the one who questioned if Michael was still alive. If he was still alive, why did Murray have them work on him for 45 minutes? Even if they did wanted to announce him dead, guess what, they couldn't because Murray outranked them. If they did try to call it, they would be the ones in trouble.
For a train nurse, that is really a stupid statement you just made.
elusive moonwalker
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crazy? why was he crazy at the time. he was there he was incharge. the medics took orders from him. so?
Beachlover
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That is where you are wrong about what I am saying.
I don't believe Murray either. The man sounds like a crazy lunatic.
What I have seen here is how everyone crawls out of hiding to tell their version of the story after shit hits the fan and the man is dead and everyone seems to have an honest version of how they didn't do anything wrong.
You all believe though that Nurse Lee is telling the truth and Murray is lying because you BELIEVE that all she ever gave was some vitamin c.
I am just as anxious as everyone else to find out what really happened in that house and the time line will become clearer when the reports of the people who were actually inside the house come out. The way it stands now Murrays lawyer is disputing what is in the actual police warrant.
Why do you seem so quick to assume he is lying? I am not so quick to believe any of them. Not him, not her, not any of them.
elusive moonwalker
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exactly, whats murrays excuse for refusing to call it and sign the certificate at the hospital.then does a runner at which point the police are called whats his excuse for not telling them he gave mj diprivan.he obviously knew he fecked up otherwise why did he not tell them.
elusive moonwalker
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ive never commented on lee. she last treated mj in april whatever she gave him did not kill him. so it is irrelvent
maybe its something to with all the lies he told.
Beachlover
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Absolutely not. I AM RESPONSIBLE for what I do to a patient whether there is a doctor there or not.
If a doctor gives me the wrong order and I follow that order guess what???? I can lose my license because I should know better. I know this to be a fact and I have seen many people lose their license to practice because they followed the doctors order and it was wrong.
So, no, actually, though you think I am stupid, I am actually not as stupid as you seem to think I am.
elusive moonwalker
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im sorry but there is no point to prove. mj was already gone it would have made no difference either way so what exactly are u trying to argue
MrsMJ2007
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CallmeRose,
We can only call and complain about Dr. Murray. His ability to practice medicine is not against the law in any state unless he does not carry a license or unless he has been charged or convicted of a crime. As of this date the state of California, where the "alleged" crime has occurred, has not charged Murray with any criminal wrongdoing. Therefore, he is free to practice medicine in Texas, California and Nevada. If anyone is to blame here it's the city of Los Angeles and the State of California. It's sickening and very disheartening and makes my blood boil. But right now everyone's hands are tied until further legal action has taken place.
Beachlover
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If we are to believe he was gone then it all comes down to toxicology reports and who gave him what drugs and when.
angelofhope
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Why do some people seem to be trying to excuse dr.death?
Murray KILLED Michael-accidentally or not that is why this is a homicide investigation.
Murray KILLED Michael-accidentally or not that is why this is a homicide investigation.
elusive moonwalker
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which has already been shown. the cause of death has been given the person who gave those drugs to mj had been labeld as a suspect in the investigation of a homicide. dont tell me lee killed him with something she gave him in april.
then again as murray claims he was giving mj diprivan for 6 weeks then theres your answer
Beachlover
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So why do you say he is lying? He confessed.
elusive moonwalker
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im saying you statement contridicts what u say in trying to blame others instead of the person whos been investigated for homicide. u seem pretty desperate to push the blame onto someone else by saying others may have given mj something in the weeks b4. well the only person giving him something in the weeks b4 was my murrays own words him.
iam not claiming someone else killed mj weeks b4. so there is no issue that i think murray claiming he gave mj diprivan for 6 weeks as suspicious when what the police found doesnt support that theory. murray killed him on the 25th june due to his actions
if this is gonna be murrays new defence then his lawyers are even more stupid than we all thought
iam not claiming someone else killed mj weeks b4. so there is no issue that i think murray claiming he gave mj diprivan for 6 weeks as suspicious when what the police found doesnt support that theory. murray killed him on the 25th june due to his actions
if this is gonna be murrays new defence then his lawyers are even more stupid than we all thought
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Beachlover
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No, I am not pushing blame. That isn't my intention here.
I am also not trying to say that this doctor is telling the truth. The simplest answer is the best and that is that he was not watching his patient and by the time he found his patient it was too late to do anything about it and he panicked and tried to cover up what had happened that night. Maybe he left him with Propofol running and didn't watch. I don't know how it happened but it did.
I think the police would have had their evidence to prove that if they had done a proper search and collected all the evidence right away. They didn't do that. I think the police waited too long to do anything about it and I think if the EMT Rescue guys would have spoke up about what they found sooner I think the police might have been tipped off that there was something very wrong there but maybe as Ramona says, no one cared cause it was just a druggie overdose. They did a quick search and found some drugs...done deal. (They miss the medical bag full of drugs in the bathroom and they miss a large bag of supposed heroine (which was really pot) and a bunch of other vials of drugs though?
Murray admitted giving him Propofol and it killed him but they let him walk away without doing anything to him and when the toxicology report came back that it was Propofol intoxication still nothing has been done to Murray and no charges have been made even though he freely admitted to giving this drug.
They are still investigating what?
I am also not trying to say that this doctor is telling the truth. The simplest answer is the best and that is that he was not watching his patient and by the time he found his patient it was too late to do anything about it and he panicked and tried to cover up what had happened that night. Maybe he left him with Propofol running and didn't watch. I don't know how it happened but it did.
I think the police would have had their evidence to prove that if they had done a proper search and collected all the evidence right away. They didn't do that. I think the police waited too long to do anything about it and I think if the EMT Rescue guys would have spoke up about what they found sooner I think the police might have been tipped off that there was something very wrong there but maybe as Ramona says, no one cared cause it was just a druggie overdose. They did a quick search and found some drugs...done deal. (They miss the medical bag full of drugs in the bathroom and they miss a large bag of supposed heroine (which was really pot) and a bunch of other vials of drugs though?
Murray admitted giving him Propofol and it killed him but they let him walk away without doing anything to him and when the toxicology report came back that it was Propofol intoxication still nothing has been done to Murray and no charges have been made even though he freely admitted to giving this drug.
They are still investigating what?
Autumn II
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Beachlover, I've read your (numerous) posts, and I must say I still don't know exactly what your POINT is, because it seems to shift around? Can you try to state your theory or position succinctly, and then we can try to fit the details of your posts into that? Would be appreciated.
Are you saying Murray was an idiot who acted alone and simply made a mistake?
Or, Murray was an idiot, but someone else killed Michael?
Or, Murray was NOT an idiot and just made a mistake?
Or, everybody is lying? Or some people are lying? Which ones do you think are lying?
Or, the investigation was botched and you think no one will ever be arrested? So, Murray walks free?
Or all, or none, of the above? Seriously. . . . . ???
Are you saying Murray was an idiot who acted alone and simply made a mistake?
Or, Murray was an idiot, but someone else killed Michael?
Or, Murray was NOT an idiot and just made a mistake?
Or, everybody is lying? Or some people are lying? Which ones do you think are lying?
Or, the investigation was botched and you think no one will ever be arrested? So, Murray walks free?
Or all, or none, of the above? Seriously. . . . . ???
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