Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option

[Soundmind]

yeah ofcourse the two mg of midazolam three hours before propofol , but why do you think it was " 2 mg "of lorazepam which was last given 5 hours before propfol that contributed to his death and not midazolam ?

also the duration of action for a cumulative dose of 5 mg of midazolam is 30-60 minutes . he gave less than half of the amount three hours before propofol and it did not even work immediatley according to murray himself . how do you explain that ?

 

[rainny]

Some here will say it doesn't matter and he wasn't receiving it for months and I still ask the question why he would call her when it had been months since he spoke to her and she did not tell him Propofol was a good drug and had nothing to do with it so it makes me wonder why.

- " He was made so comfortable in knowing that this was safe." ( Nurse Lee about
how MJ thought of using Propofol as a sleeping aide).

- " He was brainwashed by the people that were around him,
and no one would tell him the truth." ( Matt Fiddess about doctors and prescription
meds. around MJ)


Maybe the reason why he called Lee was that she was the one who told him the truth
about Propofol. Klein has said a couple of times, when asked, that he warned MJ not
to use it, but I haven't heard him say anything about it other than, ' I told him he was
absolutely insane to do that', which is not an explanation as to why it is not safe , really.

 

[Soundmind]

let me guys stress that MJ died of Acute propofol Intoxication , I'll post tomorrow an article on a male nurse who died after he self injected himself with AT LEAST 11 ampules of propofol in one night , the coroner determined he did not die of an Acute intoxication(overdose) , he simply died from a side effect caused by a Normal dosage of propofol which was guess what 2-2.5 mg/kg injection = 120 mg injection IN MJ'S CASE , MUCH HIGHER THAN MURRAY CLAIMED . the coroner considered this DOSE NORMAL . go figure .

Acute Intoxication means Lethal Amount , 2-2.5 mg injection is considered a normal dose let's not forget this please .

 

[daisydaisy]

You are correct and I think the police may have simply not understood the drip and how it works and it was recorded that way. I think the explanation is just that simple.

The police should have the actual tape recordings word for word so it is only what we have read on the search warrant that is speculative.

Yeah, true, the cops probably at that stage would not have known much info about propofol. But surely Murray should have been more specific-yes, maybe he was on the tapes but maybe he just said that amount to cover himself?

if... IF... this is true. Murray should have called 911 as soon as he got back from the restroom and saw Michael was not breathing. if had, Mike would have been still with us today.

Exactly, this is so sad, Murray has two problems- a)what he gave to Michael (combination of drugs, dose of propofol, lack of monitoring and safety equipment & he left the room) and b) how he reacted after he found him. There is no excuse all these things but there is definitely NO EXCUSE for why he left the room and didn't call 911.

read this then :

Beachlover, drip , injection or whatever , HE LIED , and 25 mg given at once would not have killed mj , and sure would not have sedated him for "approximately ten minutes ":smilerolleyes:. before he went to "relieve himself for two minutes "

Good point, yeah I just said 10 mins as a rough guide, ie a really short amount of time as opposed to hours.

let me guys stress that MJ died of Acute propofol Intoxication , I'll post tomorrow an article on a male nurse who died after he self injected himself with AT LEAST 11 ampules of propofol in one night , the coroner determined he did not die of an Acute intoxication(overdose) , he simply died from a side effect caused by a Normal dosage of propofol which was guess what 2-2.5 mg/kg injection = 120 mg injection IN MJ'S CASE , MUCH HIGHER THAN MURRAY CLAIMED . the coroner considered this DOSE NORMAL . go figure .

Acute Intoxication means Lethal Amount , 2-2.5 mg injection is considered a normal dose let's not forget this please .

Yeah, so how much did Michael receive? Scary.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

yeah ofcourse the two mg of midazolam three hours before propofol , but why do you think it was " 2 mg "of lorazepam which was last given 5 hours before propfol that contributed to his death and not midazolam ?

also the duration of action for a cumulative dose of 5 mg of midazolam is 30-60 minutes . he gave less than half of the amount three hours before propofol and it did not even work immediatley according to murray himself . how do you explain that ?

yeah i agree with this. my only issue (playing devils advocate here cause i wanna go through every senario) is murray gave him the amounts of loz and mid and then he gives him a small amount of diprivan becasue hes worried about the amount of benzos hes already given him and even that small amount of diprivan works because of the benzos he had already had.but as u say the mid should have worn off along time b4 the diprivan was given so it shouldnt have contributed.can the corroner tell the amounts of mid and loz given?(presume he can as he declared loz was a contributing factor and not mid? because the only reasoning is murray gave mj far larger doses alot nearer to each other time wise than he claims.

 

[Beachlover]

let me guys stress that MJ died of Acute propofol Intoxication , I'll post tomorrow an article on a male nurse who died after he self injected himself with AT LEAST 11 ampules of propofol in one night , the coroner determined he did not die of an Acute intoxication(overdose) , he simply died from a side effect caused by a Normal dosage of propofol which was guess what 2-2.5 mg/kg injection = 120 mg injection IN MJ'S CASE , MUCH HIGHER THAN MURRAY CLAIMED . the coroner considered this DOSE NORMAL . go figure .

Acute Intoxication means Lethal Amount , 2-2.5 mg injection is considered a normal dose let's not forget this please .

There are things that can go wrong and kill you with most any drug, even Tylenol/Acetaminophen. There are some drugs that work together (synergistic) and you would not give the full amount of either drug. Understand this part as it is important. What is lethal to you may not be lethal to me. I have seen people on extremely high doses of pain medications that would knock an elephant down and yet they are walking around like normal. If I took that same dose I would quite likely overdose.

There are not a lot of studies done on Propofol over long term use because it is not meant as a long term use drug.

Midazolam can cause a rapid development of drug tolerance and benzodiazepine dependence. Upon discontinuation a benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome can occur, including rebound insomnia. Gradual reduction of midazolam after regular use can minimise withdrawal and rebound effects. Tolerance and the resultant withdrawal syndrome may be due to alterations in gene expression, which results in long-term changes in the function of the GABAergic neuronal system. A study in rats found that midazolam is cross tolerant with barbiturates and is able to effectively substitute for barbiturates and suppress barbiturate withdrawal signs. Chronic users of benzodiazepine medication who are given midazolam experience reduced therapeutic effects of midazolam, due to tolerance to benzodiazepines.



So, if this drug was used often it becomes less and less effective.

Not having the full coroners report and not knowing what the doses actually are makes it impossible for us to determine.

So, yes, it is listed as acute Propofol intoxication but that can mean any amount that was given fast that had a lethal effect.

We are here playing devils advocate and junior detective but we don't have the information the police have. This is why I am such a doubter also.

 

[indranee]

Exactly, this is so sad, Murray has two problems- a)what he gave to Michael (combination of drugs, dose of propofol, lack of monitoring and safety equipment & he left the room) and b) how he reacted after he found him. There is no excuse all these things but there is definitely NO EXCUSE for why he left the room and didn't call 911.

the thing is, either he is lying about the TOD or he did something very wrong after he found Michael not breathing. he's going to have to admit to either one of those.

either way, he's screwed. if I was so inclined, I'd stick a fork in him.

he's done.

he better work as much as he can right now. because he won't be, for a long time, later on.

 

[Ramona122003]

the thing is, either he is lying about the TOD or he did something very wrong after he found Michael not breathing. he's going to have to admit to either one of those.

either way, he's screwed. if I was so inclined, I'd stick a fork in him.

he's done.

he better work as much as he can right now. because he won't be, for a long time, later on.

As someone who loves to see both sides of the argument, I personally cannot wait to see what Murray's defense will come up with. I have twisted my brains for months about what excuse he could possibly come up with to get out of this and I can't think of a thing.

Will this go to trail or will he plea-bargain to save his butt. Personally, I am voting he will do the later.

 

[Beachlover]

As someone who loves to see both sides of the argument, I personally cannot wait to see what Murray's defense will come up with. I have twisted my brains for months about what excuse he could possibly come up with to get out of this and I can't think of a thing.

Will this go to trail or will he plea-bargain to save his butt. Personally, I am voting he will do the later.

I think part of me needs to somehow make 'sure' I know all the angles so that I am prepared for the trial. Of course, this is all in my head because I worry about the outcome. There have been huge publicized cases where you think its going to go one way and it goes completely another.

The thing I always remember is that we don't have all the information. We don't know what the people who were inside the house said to the police, we don't know what the Emergency Medical team found at the house and what they reported to the police. We don't know 'exactly' what they said or found. So we are going by limited information in many ways. We don't have the complete autopsy report.

We have a lot of 'he said', 'she said,' things out there and it all comes down to who do you believe or who will a jury believe and what information did the police find to either confirm their stories or contradict them.

There is no doubt that Murray is lying about some things, or all things. Or is there doubt? If we seem to have such a clear case of manslaughter then it is taking an awful long time to put the pieces together, isn't it?

I just think his lawyer is going to go for that serious 'doubt' issue and I don't know how that will work. The other thing he will do is try to discredit Michael and thats going to be hard to hear.

 

[Autumn II]

I think part of me needs to somehow make 'sure' I know all the angles so that I am prepared for the trial. Of course, this is all in my head because I worry about the outcome. There have been huge publicized cases where you think its going to go one way and it goes completely another.

The thing I always remember is that we don't have all the information. We don't know what the people who were inside the house said to the police, we don't know what the Emergency Medical team found at the house and what they reported to the police. We don't know 'exactly' what they said or found. So we are going by limited information in many ways. We don't have the complete autopsy report.

We have a lot of 'he said', 'she said,' things out there and it all comes down to who do you believe or who will a jury believe and what information did the police find to either confirm their stories or contradict them.

There is no doubt that Murray is lying about some things, or all things. Or is there doubt? If we seem to have such a clear case of manslaughter then it is taking an awful long time to put the pieces together, isn't it?

I just think his lawyer is going to go for that serious 'doubt' issue and I don't know how that will work. The other thing he will do is try to discredit Michael and thats going to be hard to hear.

You "want to be prepared for the trial?" I seriously doubt that there will BE a trial. I think Murray will plea-bargain, where at least there would be a more certain outcome for him.

"Serious doubt" issue? You've pretty much covered all angles in Murray's defense, in this thread, but I don't think there's a lot of "doubt" about Murray's culpability .Murray was the last doctor standing, and has already admitted giving Michael the Propofol. In a sense, what was or was not found in the house isn't relevant to whether or not Murray administered the fatal dose.

"Discredit Michael?" Michael could have not POSSIBLY given himself the Propofol, and I'd say that fact is pretty significant. What he "asked for" or did not "ask for," will never be known because he's not here to say.

I wonder where those Security tapes went, anyway?

 

[Beachlover]

I wish I had your confidence here. What security tapes?

 

[daisydaisy]

There are things that can go wrong and kill you with most any drug, even Tylenol/Acetaminophen. There are some drugs that work together (synergistic) and you would not give the full amount of either drug. Understand this part as it is important. What is lethal to you may not be lethal to me. I have seen people on extremely high doses of pain medications that would knock an elephant down and yet they are walking around like normal. If I took that same dose I would quite likely overdose.

There are not a lot of studies done on Propofol over long term use because it is not meant as a long term use drug.

Midazolam can cause a rapid development of drug tolerance and benzodiazepine dependence. Upon discontinuation a benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome can occur, including rebound insomnia. Gradual reduction of midazolam after regular use can minimise withdrawal and rebound effects. Tolerance and the resultant withdrawal syndrome may be due to alterations in gene expression, which results in long-term changes in the function of the GABAergic neuronal system. A study in rats found that midazolam is cross tolerant with barbiturates and is able to effectively substitute for barbiturates and suppress barbiturate withdrawal signs. Chronic users of benzodiazepine medication who are given midazolam experience reduced therapeutic effects of midazolam, due to tolerance to benzodiazepines.



So, if this drug was used often it becomes less and less effective.

Not having the full coroners report and not knowing what the doses actually are makes it impossible for us to determine.

So, yes, it is listed as acute Propofol intoxication but that can mean any amount that was given fast that had a lethal effect.

We are here playing devils advocate and junior detective but we don't have the information the police have. This is why I am such a doubter also.

I know there are a lot of factors that affect how an individual's body handles a drug (especially when multiple drugs are administered) & we know so little information about this case, but it is good that we are thinking of all angles.

Yes Midazolam and benzodiazepines do cause tolerance but as far as I know propofol does not? Also, in your opinion do you think it is possible in this case that 25mg propofol could have caused acute intoxication? Say Michael was 55kg (for argument's sake), 55x2.5mg is
an approx. 'normal' dose would be 137mg. Way more than 25mg Murray said he gave.

 

[Soundmind]

I think part of me needs to somehow make 'sure' I know all the angles so that I am prepared for the trial. Of course, this is all in my head because I worry about the outcome. There have been huge publicized cases where you think its going to go one way and it goes completely another.

The thing I always remember is that we don't have all the information. We don't know what the people who were inside the house said to the police, we don't know what the Emergency Medical team found at the house and what they reported to the police. We don't know 'exactly' what they said or found. So we are going by limited information in many ways. We don't have the complete autopsy report.

We have a lot of 'he said', 'she said,' things out there and it all comes down to who do you believe or who will a jury believe and what information did the police find to either confirm their stories or contradict them.

There is no doubt that Murray is lying about some things, or all things. Or is there doubt? If we seem to have such a clear case of manslaughter then it is taking an awful long time to put the pieces together, isn't it?

I just think his lawyer is going to go for that serious 'doubt' issue and I don't know how that will work. The other thing he will do is try to discredit Michael and thats going to be hard to hear.

well, that's the problem Beachlover, this case is no longer a manslaughter case . you have to admit no lawyer in his right mind would have allowed his client to say the things murray said in his police statement and does not expect a conviction on manslaughter . They were afraid of a second degree murder, murray thought he was smart, he tried to lead the investigation again, he knew if they figured out what exactly he did that night he would be convicted of second degree murder .

the media won't side with mj, the media twisted every witness testimony during the trial, some jurors said we would be in court all day, go home , watch tv and we could not believe they were talking about the same testimony we were hearing .

I know what murray will say , Murray will claim MJ overdosed himself , you have already presented this argument , you have already said mj probably moved his hand and something wrong happened and he died .

as you have tried to do here, he will have to prove that Dr.Adams was lying, Lee was lying, alvares was lying, the paramedics were lying, the security quards, the doctors at ucls , and he will question the police officers, the coroner's findings , the time of death , everything , he will have to prove their was a conspiracy to frame him .

MJ was dead for a long time , that fact alone will downplay any doubt the jurors have over what happened that day .

and you know what from mj's urine they would have been able to determine the exact amount ofm propofol mj was given that night, they would have been able to figure whether mj was given propofol only ten mintues , hour, or hours before his death . he will have to explain that , MJ did not go to sleep at 10.40 am NO WAY .

 

[daisydaisy]

the thing is, either he is lying about the TOD or he did something very wrong after he found Michael not breathing. he's going to have to admit to either one of those.

either way, he's screwed. if I was so inclined, I'd stick a fork in him.

he's done.

he better work as much as he can right now. because he won't be, for a long time, later on.

Yes, either way there is no defense. I'd do more than stick a fork in him!

As someone who loves to see both sides of the argument, I personally cannot wait to see what Murray's defense will come up with. I have twisted my brains for months about what excuse he could possibly come up with to get out of this and I can't think of a thing.

Will this go to trail or will he plea-bargain to save his butt. Personally, I am voting he will do the later.

Yes, there is no defense so it will be interesting to see tho.

You "want to be prepared for the trial?" I seriously doubt that there will BE a trial. I think Murray will plea-bargain, where at least there would be a more certain outcome for him.

I wonder where those Security tapes went, anyway?

What will he plea-bargain with? If it was deeper than just Murray, then if he plea-bargains surely the people he names would 'catch up with him' eventually?

 

[daisydaisy]

I know what murray will say , Murray will claim MJ overdosed himself , you have already presented this argument , you have already said mj probably moved his hand and something wrong happened and he died .

as you have tried to do here, he will have to prove that Dr.Adams was lying, Lee was lying, alvares was lying, the paramedics were lying, the security quards, the doctors at ucls , and he will question the police officers, the coroner's findings , the time of death , everything , he will have to prove their was a conspiracy to frame him .

How could he overdose himself? As soon as propofol hits the vein it makes you unconscious and Murray admitted giving him some, so Murray admitted Michael was unconscious when he left the room so how would this be possible?

 

[Soundmind]

read this case aout a male nurse , they were able to determine he self injected at least ten ampules of propofol in the hours before his death from his urine , they also could determine he did not die of a propofol overdose but of an adverse effect cause by a normal 2-25 mg/kg INJECTION .

http://www.drjunge.de/pdf/propofol_03.eng_web.pdf

I''ll say it over and over , murray did not try to wean mj off anything, Murray did not give mj benzos instead of propofol and was eventually forced by mj to give propofol at 10.40 am, murray bought midazolam with propofol on 12 may , it's a clear evidence the benzos were never bought to be used instead of propofol , they were bought to be used with propofol . it only means murray gave propofol way before 10.40am , and the coroner would have been able to determine the amounts murray gave that night , and for how long .

 

[Soundmind]

How could he overdose himself? As soon as propofol hits the vein it makes you unconscious and Murray admitted giving him some, so Murray admitted Michael was unconscious when he left the room so how would this be possible?

according to Beachlover, MJ could have moved his hand and the IV drip was run faster and MJ died , so mj overdosed himself . :smilerolleyes:

 

[Autumn II]

according to Beachlover, MJ could have moved his hand and the IV drip was run faster and MJ died , so mj overdosed himself . :smilerolleyes:

And that is extremely unlikely, given what we know about Propofol and its proper administration. Beachlover continues, for many, many pages, to find/express excuses for Murray, how this was in no way his fault. . . . not really. With all due respect, I, for one, am extremely tired of it and of how this is a thread with a lot of "questioners" (and rightly so) and only one "responder," with the point always being the many ways in which this was not Murray's fault.

I'm not on staff anymore, and am going to call it how I see it. I now believe, personally, that Beachlover is either Murray himself, or someone in his attorney's office, or from the PR firm that the attorney hired. I have no other way, at this point, to explain the ever-shifting/but ever-consistent, defense of Murray. Whatever else happened, Murray was the last doctor standing. Michael did NOT give the Propofol to himself, or cause himself to have an accident. "Nurse Lee" did not miraculously show up and give it to him. Murray was THERE. He went with Michael in the ambulance, and we know that. He refused to sign the death-certificate. He vanished from the hospital and he hid. His car was impounded. On his car-seat was the contract from AEG. Doesn't MATTER who signed it. It was there. . . His veracity is entirely suspect. He has "baby-mamas" all over-the-place, but yet is married. How can we believe.. anything. . that he has to say?

Whoever Beachlover is, I'd like to let everyone and her/him know that she/he has been doing MUCH more damage to Murray, than not. Whoever was or was not involved, there is no doubt that Murray. . .. was the last doctor standing.

Carry on, as I'm sure you all will,

Vic

 

[Beachlover]

according to Beachlover, MJ could have moved his hand and the IV drip was run faster and MJ died , so mj overdosed himself . :smilerolleyes:

But NO, I am NOT excusing Murray for that. It would be Murrays fault IF that happened for several reasons. He is responsible as he hung the drip. I only meant that it is possible the drip was running 'ok' and MJ was 'ok' and then Murray went out of the room and he moved his arm and got a huge bolus that could have lasted the entire time Murray was out of the room and by the time he got back it was too late.

This doesn't excuse Murray. It just gives an explanation as to a possible scenario.

 

[Beachlover]

And in response to Victorias post. No, I am actually just a fan and I have stated OVER and OVER that I do believe that Murray is guilty but I also state that I do not believe in this country that you are guilty until proven so.

Because we have not heard the entire scenario and have all the facts, and the physician in question seems to be a good physician (not taking into account his personal life), I am willing to hear him and everyone else out and wait for the facts.

So, as you said also, I have not helped his case either, so it is not likely that I am working for him or Murray himself. I am a Registered Nurse that is the same age as MJ and have been a fan for as long as I can remember.

I am totally against the 'hang him, make him suffer' attitude of many of the fans because I do in my mind believe that this man made a mistake and got scared and tried to cover it up. It is still wrong and he should be punished if that happened because he was careless and negligent.

I have also stated several times that I look at every angle. I did also say that you can all believe whatever you want to believe and that is your right too, just as not trusting or believing what people say is mine.

 

[KingOfPop1]

What is a bolus? I think that happened to me in the hospital last year.

I was on an IV drip and I moved my arm I guess in the wrong way in my sleep and the tissue in my arm started to expand with the fluid that was coming from the IV. I remember waking up and my arm looked like Popeye - very swollen and discolored. I immediately pushed the button for the nurse and she was horrified and was very upset that the previous nurse didn't put my IV in correctly. I remember the nurse saying I was a "hard stick" because I lost so much blood, but it was no excuse for what the previous nurse did. She said the IV work was shotty.

 

[Beachlover]

A bolus is simply a faster run of fluid, whether it be from an IV hanging in a bag or pushed in through a syringe. Since the Propofol that was found needed to be mixed I will assume he gave it through IV in a bag without a pump. Very dangerous.

You had what is called 'an infiltrate' and that can happen if the catheter (part that goes inside the arm) comes out of the vein for whatever reason. Patients get up and go to the bathroom and they pull it and it comes part way out, or they are sleeping and roll over and pull it, or they are eating dinner and hit their arm on the tray, etc. It just means that the fluid is running into the body but not through a vein. If this happens with some drugs you can have tissue necrosis (rotting of the skin) and some drugs can even cause you to lose the entire limb.

 

[Autumn II]

But NO, I am NOT excusing Murray for that. It would be Murrays fault IF that happened for several reasons. He is responsible as he hung the drip. I only meant that it is possible the drip was running 'ok' and MJ was 'ok' and then Murray went out of the room and he moved his arm and got a huge bolus that could have lasted the entire time Murray was out of the room and by the time he got back it was too late.

This doesn't excuse Murray. It just gives an explanation as to a possible scenario.

There is no excuse possible, and no explanation at all, yet. Murray was the last doctor standing. There might or might not have been others involved, but Murray is walking point on this. Does he WANT to walk point, or will he spill? He's in serious trouble, and I do hope he spills.

All of the medical/technical "data" (based on NO facts that we can discover, about what really happened) cannot possibly excuse the fact that Murray should NOT have been giving a general anesthetic in a home setting. Not once, not twice, and not ever. It does not matter what Michael did or did not "demand," nor do we know that he really did. That does not matter, at ALL. There was a doctor present.

Beachlover, I think we've all had about enough. I'd just like to tell you, if you ARE Murray (and that is possible) this is NOT helping. If you are someone from his attorney's office, you are NOT helping him. If you are from his PR firm, you are NOT helping him.

Surely you do not think that the "investigations" on MJJC are ALL that are happening? You don't have access to most of it, and you never will.

My advice to Murray? If you are being cast as the one taking the fall for this, save yourself before it's too late, and tell the TRUTH.

peace-out,

Vic

 

[KingOfPop1]

Oh man. I had acute pancreatitis and couldn't eat so I was being fed nutrients through the IV and they gave me Morphine AND Dilaudid pushed through the IV for pain maintenance.

Thanks for the explanation of bolus and infiltrate.

 

[Beachlover]

There is no excuse possible, and no explanation at all, yet. Murray was the last doctor standing. There might or might not have been others involved, but Murray is walking point on this. Does he WANT to walk point, or will he spill? He's in serious trouble, and I do hope he spills.

All of the medical/technical "data" (based on NO facts that we can discover, about what really happened) cannot possibly excuse the fact that Murray should NOT have been giving a general anesthetic in a home setting. Not once, not twice, and not ever. It does not matter what Michael did or did not "demand," nor do we know that he really did. That does not matter, at ALL. There was a doctor present.

Beachlover, I think we've all had about enough. I'd just like to tell you, if you ARE Murray (and that is possible) this is NOT helping. If you are someone from his attorney's office, you are NOT helping him. If you are from his PR firm, you are NOT helping him.

Surely you do not think that the "investigations" on MJJC are ALL that are happening? You don't have access to most of it, and you never will.

My advice to Murray? If you are being cast as the one taking the fall for this, save yourself before it's too late, and tell the TRUTH.

peace-out,

Vic

Now I am kinda annoyed. This is all YOUR opinion and I just said who I am.

Give it a rest. I have a right to voice my opinion just as much as you do. I have been respectful and I answer questions presented with as much honestly as I can.

I do hope that no one in your family in this country is accused of a crime. You seem a bit clueless. Also, you obviously only half read my posts and what I am saying.

I don't blame Murray for one minute for leaving and getting a lawyer. He is a black man and that was LA and I would not talk to the police without my lawyer present. Period.

 

[Beachlover]

Oh man. I had acute pancreatitis and couldn't eat so I was being fed nutrients through the IV and they gave me Morphine AND Dilaudid pushed through the IV for pain maintenance.

Thanks for the explanation of bolus and infiltrate.

Ouch on the Pancreatitis. Very painful and glad you are better now.

 

[Soundmind]

Now I am kinda annoyed. This is all YOUR opinion and I just said who I am.

Give it a rest. I have a right to voice my opinion just as much as you do. I have been respectful and I answer questions presented with as much honestly as I can.

I do hope that no one in your family in this country is accused of a crime. You seem a bit clueless. Also, you obviously only half read my posts and what I am saying.

I don't blame Murray for one minute for leaving and getting a lawyer. He is a black man and that was LA and I would not talk to the police without my lawyer present. Period.

well, you had a problem with Alvarez hiring a lawyer :mello:

 

[Autumn II]

Now I am kinda annoyed. This is all YOUR opinion and I just said who I am.

Give it a rest. I have a right to voice my opinion just as much as you do. I have been respectful and I answer questions presented with as much honestly as I can.

I do hope that no one in your family in this country is accused of a crime. You seem a bit clueless. Also, you obviously only half read my posts and what I am saying.

I don't blame Murray for one minute for leaving and getting a lawyer. He is a black man and that was LA and I would not talk to the police without my lawyer present. Period.

I am in no sense, and never clueless and as long as I continue to live, I will never, EVER, give justice for Michael "a rest." Never. I have read ALL of your posts, very carefully. I am a researcher by profession, and have finally . . . finally. . . become alarmed by your posts. I do not have an "opinion." I have a position, based on careful and detailed research.

Don't even THINK about pulling the "race-card" here. You have NO idea who I am. None. Of course, Murray deserves an attorney, and no one said he did not. He SHOULD have an attorney, and he would be a fool not to. If someone in my family were accused of a crime, for sure we'd get an attorney and not talk to cops.

What I'm finally taking exception to, here, is your consistent defense of Murray. To date, you are the ONLY person to do so.

 

[Beachlover]

well, you had a problem with Alvarez hiring a lawyer :mello:

No, I don't have a problem with it at all.

I just question why he would have to. Murray definitely needed one.

 

[Beachlover]

I am in no sense, and never clueless and as long as I continue to live, I will never, EVER, give justice for Michael "a rest." Never. I have read ALL of your posts, very carefully. I am a researcher by profession, and have finally . . . finally. . . become alarmed by your posts. I do not have an "opinion." I have a position, based on careful and detailed research.

Don't even THINK about pulling the "race-card" here. You have NO idea who I am. None. Of course, Murray deserves an attorney, and no one said he did not. He SHOULD have an attorney, and he would be a fool not to. If someone in my family were accused of a crime, for sure we'd get an attorney and not talk to cops.

What I'm finally taking exception to, here, is your consistent defense of Murray. To date, you are the ONLY person to do so.

Yet you accused him in your other post of running away. I merely said he went to get a lawyer which you should have realized. I would NEVER talk to the cops in that situation without one but yet you think Murray should?