I could have been found in a doctors bag meaning it wasnt intended for Michael but just something the doctor was carrying around.
No doctor will "just carry around" Propofol. No one. Never. It is an anesthetic and is not allowed to be used outside a hospital or a clinical setting. Simply because you need to be able to intubate a patient and ventilate the patient in case they are not breathing sufficiently.
Diprivan is a anesthetic.
Why would Michael need a anesthetic in his home?
Exactly. Who brought it there? Who was intending to use it and for what? Propofol is NOT to be used in a home setting!!
Multiple people including his family members have stated he suffered from insomnia for years. Diprivan is a very rapid acting iv anesthetic, and rapid re-awakening after it is stopped, within minutes one is awake after receiving it.
But it must involve continuous monitoring of cardiac, respiratory, and oxygenation status, with life saving equipment immediately available. It is never given outside a hospital or outpatient surgicenter type setting with MD's present at all times. It is not avaible through prescription, period.
Anything is possible in the dark world of people that could obtain and administer this medication, specifically physicians that could have come into Michael's world.
This is to me one of the seemingly most likely causes of what has happened, but it is truly just my opinion.
(and I use Diprivan daily in my work setting, must be recertified yearly to administer it, and only under the supervision of a on site physician)
Exactly. You need to monitor the patient at all times and need to have intubation gear and emergency "drugs" ready should problems arise. We intubate the patients and bag them during operations but those who just get sedated for short diagnostic measures will only get oxygen with a mask, but we have the ambu-bag and everything we need for intubation ready. Plus we have drugs ready should there be a problem with their heart rate, etc.
Stupid question: What is diprivan? Apparently a general anesthetic of some kind but what would make it lethal?
Pretty much what would make it lethal is the fact that you can stop breathing. And if no one ventilates you for you during the time that you are not breathing yourself, your brain won't get enough oxygen and you can figure out the rest...
But insomnia and trouble going to sleep after a such adrenaline rush are two different things!! Insomnia is when you are not able to sleep at all. I never heard MJ say he can't normally sleep. We know he is a night owl and sleep in the day that could just be a reversal of sleep cycle for him; not necessarily insomnia.
Again, I really don't trust that nurse, and then this info coming out like this. I am suspicious.
Well, Michael did say he had trouble sleeping when he was touring, and I can totally believe that. After the concerts he was probably really excited and energetic (like when one feels after exercising...I can's sleep either if I exercise late in the evening)...and then he was travelling almost every other day to a different city, to a different country, to a different time zone...so he was probably constantly jet-lagged. I can TOTALLY relate to that since I work a totally mixed schedule of day and night shifts and am often feeling "jet lagged" myself (even though I don't travel, but one day I'm up during the day, the next day I have to be up during the night, and so on...). And that can really mess up your sleeping patterns and you can easily have trouble sleeping, I know I do. And the irony in all that is that I've often joked in the OR about needing Propofol myself when we are giving the patients it saying "I would have needed that last night", if I had had trouble sleeping because of mixed work shifts. I've often said that and joked about it. Would have never used it, but it's easy to joke about it. So I can see how Michael may have come up with the idea if he indeed had problems getting enough sleep. HOEWEVER....joking about it is one thing...using it is another. And I don't know HOW any doctor could EVER agree to use it in a home as a "sleeping aid". That is completely, COMPLETELY irresponsible and dangerous! So if Propofol was used, then it is definately the DOCTOR to be blamed and not Michael!!
Thank you! this is the most sense I've seen in this thread and I would like to add my two cents on.
The DEA was seen coming out of Michael's home with a huge bad of medications that Mike had supposedly taken, now although the meds were in his home, at some point he had to have taken them either once or more than others because what would be the point of it being there? (IMO) I mean did he need them for display? decorations? what? think common sense about this.
On the other hand, it could and I'm taking this with a grain of salt, been a set as a result of stating that Mike abused his meds, yet see that's not the picture I'm getting, his present doctor with him at the time supplied mike with meds that he should'nt have had in his system just so the pain would ease. I don't think the doctor monitered mike, I don't think he was at his side 24/7 and I don't think Mike was aware of the doctor's intentions, he thought he had found someone who will help him. This is what makes the doctor suspecious (IMO), when paramedics arrived, why was'nt he present? why did he flee and it took one or two days for authorities to catch up with him? and when they did catch up with him, he had his lawyer by his side, it was'nt because he was nervous that he lost a patient and not just any patient, he was nervous bcause he know what he did was wrong and he know it was'nt no accident.
Needless to say, I would'nt be surprised if that's what they found in his home and if it was in his system.
Either the doctor wasn't there at all times IF he gave Propofol, or he was there but didn't have the right equipment to be able to save Michael. And it's possible that he was scared of getting caught of having used a substance that is not allowed to be used in a home setting, so he waited with his 911 call. If I am completely honest, the fisrt time I heard about Michael having suffered cardiac arrest and heard his doctor had been with him...if I'm honest...my first thought was..."I hope they weren't doing some cosmetic procedure in anesthesia at his home!"....I guess the reason why I thought of that is that I couldn't figure out why there was a doctor with him other wise and how he could go into cardiac arrest on his own...And the whole thing with MJ not breathing FIRST and having a pulse would go with the Diprivan theory. Question is....if his doctor usd Diprivan(Propofol) 1. Did he have an ambu-bag and oxygen ready 2. Did he have anything there to intubate Michael? 3. If not why?!! If yes, why didn't he use them immediately?! 4. If he used Propofol why didn't he do something about his BREATHING first? Looks he concentrated on his heart...but I haven't heard any reports of him trying to get oxygen into MJ's body!! It seems his heart stopped because he was not breathing properly and getting enough oxygen. 4. Did he tell the paramedics when they arrived what MJ had gotten, or did he hide it?!
conspiracy ideas will abound. Always have, always will. Sometimes with basis, sometimes without.
What matter to me is:
1. Daily use of prescription painkillers or having them in the house in my opinion does not equal prescription drug abuse. If they were needed for pain, it's not abuse.
2. There has also been mentioned anti-depressive meds - again not abuse if needed. Millions of people use the same daily.
3. Diprivan. If found, what on earth would be the point of planting it?? There is absolutely NO WAY that is Michael's responsibility, if that is what he was given. That would be the sole responsibility of the doctor who administered it without the proper safeguards. It does not matter how much Michael may have wanted it, if true. It was the doctor's responsibility to use it safely - which should never have been done at home - especially without proper monitoring/rescusitative equipment.
So if it was Diprivan - the only person to blame is the doctor. And if it WAS ditrivan - I would like to know if the doctor revealed that to emergency personnel and the doctors at the hospital.
Anyway, it's all speculation at this point until tox results are in, and no matter what, it doesn't bring Michael back.
Good point. Using prescription drugs is NOT equal to being an "addict" or abusing them. They did say he used prescription drugs but that could have been for anything. It could have been just antibiotics for an infection, for all we know.
I agree with this. I do think some personal accountability is there (not necessarily in this case.. we don't even know what he took, if anything. I'm just speaking in general). But the fact remains these should be tightly controlled, regulated drugs. I can't get this drug, neither should anyone else without going through 100% legitimate channels.
Well, sadly...it's surprisingly easy to get your hands on Propofol or any other anesthetic if you work in a hospital. Morphine, etc. are monitored carefully...Anesthetic drugs...not so much. I have never understood it really, but it's pretty easy access. I hope that will change.
Anyways...we don't know what happened, we need to wait for the toxicology reports. But IF Michael indeed died of complications of use of Propofol....it is really a tragedy....and I don't know how I will ever be able to handle it. It was SUCH an unnecessary death in that case. It was NOT meant to be that way. If it was just because his DOCTOR willingly abused an anesthetic drug and put Michael's life into jeopardy...I don't know how I will ever be able to accept Michael's death.
It is so difficult to accept he is gone anyways....but if his death could have been avoided...it is really going to break my heart into million pieces.
