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Diprivan WAS found at MJ home

I think it's really a shame that some people here are bickering at each other, while Michael is out there, waiting to being brought to his grave.
 
the guy who sold it and the guy who told him that it is safe - these are to be questioned. if they find them, they better don't tell their names, because I would be among the first to write them a clear letter, and i am sure, others would go there to be more explicit about their feelings.
 
rsw22 said:
And they are trying to blur the line between prescription drugs and illegal drugs.
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Not really, they're making a point to out the current problem of people abusing prescription drugs. There's a lot of stuff to rip the press about, but I personally don't think this is one of them. Sensationalizing the whole thing, yes, but the fact is abuse of prescription medication is a real problem.

Whoa182 said:
This would have already been confirmed if it were the case. This is one the things they would check for right away.
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It was confirmed. He died of cardiac arrest, with no foul play suspected. What they couldn't say was what caused the cardiac arrest, and this is pending toxicology results.
 
LisaB said:
What court case with another doctor Elusive?

I still don't trust that nurse. I really don't.
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i posted it in the original thread i started about this. the one with the interview with the nurse. a doctor was on cnn last night talking about it and midas found info about him. he worked for mj during history tour was sued over otherstuff. was a druggy himself and doing this courtcase in 2001 it was claimed the doctor had told ppl he gave mj the same drug during history tour but had made mj collapse cause of the amount. so ppl wonder if this is the doctor mj was refering to in the nurse article where she climed mj had told her another doc had given it to him in the past. if this is all true its frankly amazing mj lasted this long
 
MAY I please say that i don't believe in the reports that will be coming from now on... can we please remember that there's a lot of money involved there and AEG and others need badly to prove that Michael (RIP) was abusing drugs so they could take the insurance money.
so please let's keep our analytical eyes wide open to disern the lies that they will spread.

MAy i say that this dr. who waited for half an hour to call the 9ll!!!!! that just as he waited until Michael (RIP) gave his last breath to call the 9ll, he might very easily slip in those Diprivan drugs in Michael's house!!!!!

i think we all should bring our doubts into the light whever we have the chance.. i really so much doubt in the authinticity of the texcigology report that will be realesed.

MAY YOU REST IN PEACE OUR BELOVED ANGEL..
I LOVE YOU
 
at this point, diprivan is just a theory (and I think it is a good one since it puts many pieces together, like doc fearing to call 911). anyway, I don't know why people are acting as if it is a theory against Michael. for God sakes, if I walked an only day in MJ's shoes, I'd need anesthesia in that day. You are being very moralist here.
 
Why are so many people gainst believing that he may have used it. He was human an had a problem just like anyone else in his lifestyle would have crumbled. The only thing I'm saying is if he DID use it. That doctor must have known about it. In which case he will have targe on his head forever. I would knock him if I saw him
 
So the dr. is a druggy?lol interesting.

Prescription drug abuse is a real problem yes. I agree. We can end it there because we don't know the half of MJ's story.

Also, needle marks on MJ's body. IF this is true, please remember that MJ had other health issues that we know required at least steroid shots...and I am sure there are more issues he had.

Just please think and stop reacting.

And Hoofmark is right, we shouldn't be bickering. We should all just wait on the truth to come out (at least what we hope is the truth).
 
What one person sees as bickering another might see as friendly debate and discussion, but whatever.

If we all just stood idly by and waited without offering thoughts or opinions, most threads could be locked after the first post.
 
It was confirmed. He died of cardiac arrest, with no foul play suspected. What they couldn't say was what caused the cardiac arrest, and this is pending toxicology results.
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No, Heart attack is different from Cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest is when the heart goes into a weird rhythm, Ventricular Fibrillation and then the heart stops. The kind of heart attack some people are refering to is not the same thing and is due to to a blockage or something which then damages the muscle of the heart. Michael did not have a heart attack. If he did they would know about quickly
 
Just got back online and read through this thread. There will be absolutely NO quarreling or bickering on this board. NONE. Not NOW. Make your point and move on. If the bickering continues, your posts will be removed without comment. Please do not burden staff with this type of moderating at this moment in time. Certainly, folks, you understand the necessity for tolerance now?
 
Michael died of cardiac arrest, not a heart-attack. Those are different. The investigation is ongoing and foul-play, or not, cannot be determined yet. The toxicology report is not back yet, and the investigation is not over. Anything else is speculation, only.
 
this is what i posted in the other thread

nks to midas

*I knew the name was familiar. Old article from the NY Post.......

New York Post
February 9, 2000

JACKSON DRUG STUNNER IN 'GYNO' TRIAL

A one-time dope-addict doctor was accused yesterday of pumping Michael
Jackson full of drugs while on tour with the bizarre megastar. The
bombshell accusation came in Manhattan federal court, where Dr. Neil
Ratner was testifying against another doctor in an insurance-fraud
case. Sources said Ratner told colleagues he once gave the Gloved One
so much of a relaxant that Jackson collapsed during a world tour.
Ratner is a key prosecution witness at the federal trial of Dr. Niels
Lauersen, a celebrity gynecologist dubbed the "Dyno Gyno," who's
charged with defrauding health-insurance companies for fertility
treatments. Ratner said that in the past few years he worked as a "tour
physician" for Jackson, but refused on the stand to answer questions
about Jackson and drugs. "Would you give Michael Jackson drugs?" asked
Lauersen's lawyer, Ted Wells, referring to the singer's 1996-97
tour. "I'm not going to discuss a patient's personal medical
condition," answered Ratner. Seconds later, in a heated sidebar
conversation with Judge William Pawley, Wells accused Ratner of being
Jackson's personal drug pusher. Wells told the judge Ratner gave
Jackson drugs while the King of Pop was touring in Europe. "I think
what he is doing is illegal," insisted Wells, who has spent days
grilling Ratner on the witness stand, trying to paint him as a liar and
a thief. The judge ruled that Ratner did not have to talk about his
treatment of Jackson. Asked again about his work on the tour, Ratner
answered: "I administered medical treatment occasionally." Sources said
Ratner once told people in Lauersen's office that Jackson collapsed
after a show because Ratner had given him too much of a general
anesthetic called propofol. Propofol is often used to relieve anxiety
or pain, but larger doses cause unconsciousness. When told of the lurid
drug accusations that surfaced at the trial, Jackson lawyer Brian Wolf
said the Gloved One's medical history was confidential. Ratner has said
he was an out-of-control drug-using doctor in the late '80s before
getting sober. He has denied ever illegally prescribing drugs to
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When it becomes speculation based on every bit of information offered by our ill-informed, sensationalistic media, then we have to be careful how we react. We've crossed the line. It is not our place to prove further medium for all the info flying around that isn't confirmed by an authorative source.This is one time we need to wait. These 'discussions' are becoming distasteful.
 
The one thing I can't seem to understand is, this doctor that was with Mike was in fact a cardiologist wasn't he? So, you'd think that considering he's a said professional and is aware of the dangers of this medication, why would he administer this to Mike at all.?...IF he did so. If the doctor knew that it could possibly stop the patient's heart, why even take that chance. He knew about the mechanics of the heart etc. It just is sounding more scary. Look, I love Michael...I'm am beside myself with grief...but he was a human. My mother took sleeping mediaction and other seditives, she died of a heart-attack. I miss her everyday.
 
Niemand said:
at this point, diprivan is just a theory (and I think it is a good one since it puts many pieces together, like doc fearing to call 911). anyway, I don't know why people are acting as if it is a theory against Michael. for God sakes, if I walked an only day in MJ's shoes, I'd need anesthesia in that day. You are being very moralist here.
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RedRoses said:
Why are so many people gainst believing that he may have used it. He was human an had a problem just like anyone else in his lifestyle would have crumbled. The only thing I'm saying is if he DID use it. That doctor must have known about it. In which case he will have targe on his head forever. I would knock him if I saw him
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I THINK why we are so hesitant to believe that he was actually using drugs is because we are trying somehow to bring justice to the man.
Michael (RIP) as we all know wasn't suicidal and he is a very inteligent man so he surely knew what those drugs could do. we know that he is clever enough. and he really wanted to live especially for his beautiful kids.
so the suggestion is that this dr in coporation with others might have actuallly done something to Michael... that's why he didn't call the 9ll rightaway... and the fact that they are know refering to drugs being found is so they can get the insurance money. as i posted before, if the reports show that Michael (RIP) passed aways out of an overdose, then AEG will take the insurance money... do you think that AEG won't do any thing possible to get that money???!!!!! i don't think so!!!!!
and that's why i wish at least that we keep an analytical eye when reading the news.
we know Michael (RIP) had painkillers in 93, we know he went to rehab. then if we really believe he was an addict and he would use those drugs nomatter what, then don't you think that the last trial could have actually ended his life with all the drugs he could be using because obviosly he was in so much pain physically and emotionally...

if he survived the trial without takin an overdose, then why would he now, when we all saw his smile more than once, when we saw the rehersals in our own eyes and saw his enthusiasm and his kids smiles, why would he choose now to take so many sedatives and drugs that actually took his llife?!!!

that's why i have a lot of suspisions about the whole thing and i can't believe any report that is coming out. as i said, anyone could have sliped this Deprivian in the house to prove that Michael (RIP) was abusing drugs.. and in that case, AEG will take the insurance money...

when there is money (HUGE SUMS OF MONEY) involved, there's corruption, please try to remember that.
 
Thanks Elusive. I can't understand why MJ would collapse if getting propofol to go to sleep. He should be laying down preparing to sleep. I don't trust the NYPost and its anonymous 'sources' anywayz.
 
Whoa182 said:
No, Heart attack is different from Cardiac arrest. Cardiac arrest is when the heart goes into a weird rhythm, Ventricular Fibrillation and then the heart stops. The kind of heart attack some people are refering to is not the same thing and is due to to a blockage or something which then damages the muscle of the heart. Michael did not have a heart attack. If he did they would know about quickly
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Well, yeah, I said cardiac arrest. I guess I misread your post... I was just conveying that they did determine he died of cardiac arrest, and toxicology results will determine further information and hopefully what caused the cardiac arrest. If any foul play is involved, it will likely be included in the toxicology results as it's already been pretty much ruled out with the two autopsys.
 
LisaB said:
Thanks Elusive. I can't understand why MJ would collapse if getting propofol to go to sleep. He should be laying down preparing to sleep. I don't trust the NYPost and its anonymous 'sources' anywayz.
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yeah it does sound abit.. the way its written.theres just alot of coincedences building up here
 
rsw22 said:
This is why i suggested a thread with the truth would help.

The only injection marks found during autopsy were those injected into his heart by the hospital to try and rescucitate him.
The pathologist denied that they were the source of reports concerning exagerations to the autopsy.

The autopsy did not help them figure out why he died, so they await toxology reports.

It's surprising that when this woman says Diprivan, they suddenly say they found diprivan.

Don't forget Diprivan has to be given via IV. The doctor has categorically denied injecting Michael with any drug and has said, any prescription was for an ailment.
Michael did not have an IV in him when the paramedics went there, or else that info would be out by now.

The doctor's lawyer has asked the public to reserve judgement till toxology results are back.

So how did Michael take deprivan if there was no injection or drip on him?

Michael complained he wasn't feeling well and spoke to Frank about this. So his death is unlikely to be because of Deprivan, it most likely is some pain he was experiencing that he took with a pills prescribed to him by the doctor, or it was simply a heart failure.

I think 1993 was like this where everyone was running left right and centre with their wild stories and confirmations.

What helped in 2003 is that Bashir did the doc, fans got the rebuttal and knew the truth such that when the lies broke later, atleast they knew what was true and what was false.

The media needs shock to keep this "drug" story running, otherwise they have to focus on positive Michael news and his legacy. They want to scandalize him and they feel drugs story is the way.

Michael would definitely have lots of medication in his home, as do many people, incase he needs it.
I mean, a doctor employed to stay in the home would make a collection of a variety of drugs for various ailments should they arise.

It's like an engineer coming to fix the tap or do repair work, they come with an entire kit, even with stuff they are not going to use. The guy can have a set of screw drivers but end up using only one of a given size or none. They must be ready for action.

But the media is now taking all this and running with "there were many drugs, bags of drugs".
The two bags they took from his house aren't that much. In any case, we see him with medicine bags coming out of the hospital, so there is nothing "secret" about the bags of drugs.

And the doctor would definitely have drugs in his car as a practicing medic.

And they are trying to blur the line between prescription drugs and illegal drugs.
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*Cosign* Thanks for this post....This is the one that makes the most sense to me after reading 6 pages of this thread....
 
I THINK why we are so hesitant to believe that he was actually using drugs is because we are trying somehow to bring justice to the man.
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That is my point. That wouldn't be a moral issue like you seem to think (btw, I think Michael has said that about drugs in general). If Michael needed something chemical to help him with his hard life, so what? Who could judge him?

Michael (RIP) as we all know wasn't suicidal and he is a very inteligent man so he surely knew what those drugs could do.
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Many inteligent people use and abuse legal and illegal drugs. You talk like a teacher would talk to children at school "if you use drugs, you are a fool". Sometimes life hurts too much, that is all. And those people are not suicidal. That is why the doc will have to spend time in jail if the theory is right. He would have acted as a drug dealer. Indeed, he would be worse than a drug dealer because he would have that disguise of a doc and safe medicine.
 
At this point, I think it's safe to say that no news is sure to be 100% accurate. Not unless confirmed by the Jackson camp.

IF this Diprivan story is true though, I have to say that that doctor must have a diploma for "idiocy". What would have been the point of giving him Diprivan? Like others have mentioned before, it is an anaesthetic and once administrated, you instantly doze off; a few minutes later, you instantly wake up. It wouldn't have induced the 8 hours of sleep Michael presumably asked for. The only way would have been for the doctor supervising the whole thing (cause a doctor had to have been there! ) to administer it continuously during those 8 hours AND in combination with other drugs - which would have been a complete non-sense since there are many other ways to counter insomnia out there, ways that are legal and more efficient. Yes, I understand that he'd tried many other things, but I'm sure there were other solutions as well. What the heck, Diprivan should have never been a solution in the first place!!!!

I'll be waiting for the autopsy and toxicology results, speculating won't be doing us any good.
 
I'm a little concerned (a lot?) about this thread at this time. You can discuss if you really need to, but the fact is that we have NO valid information yet. We have no autopsy reports, no toxicology reports, no valid list of medications that may or may not have been taken out of Michael's house. We do not KNOW if he had an IV in place and the doctor took the extra time to remove it. We don't know if there were, or were not, needle-marks except for those he must have had on his chest from injections to the heart. We don't know if Michael had a spontaneous cardiac arrest and no drugs at all were involved.

We don't know ANYTHING for certain yet. May I suggest that if possible, you give maximum support to those who are still very much on the edge with grief? Not that you are not, but until there is valid information out there, we simply cannot speculate with any accuracy. Just a suggestion. . . . . . .
 
The problem with all of this rank speculation is this: Diprivan may not have anything at all to do with what happened OR it can be the only reason Mike died.

It can only be given via IV. The doc says he did not give Mike any injections or medications at the time. (If he's lying he'll probably be facing a trial at some point in the future.)

On the 911 call, there was no mention of an IV, nor was there a mention of an IV found next to Mike or in the room when the paramedics came.

So if Mike left this Earth, how was it because of diprivan seeing as how it can only be given via IV, and it only has effect as its actually flowing into the body?

On the flip side, if Mike was failed by diprivan, it means he didn't overdose on medication. The media is running themselves into a dead end with this story.

We just don't know what happened. At this point, for all we know, he could have had a severe allergic reaction to something; could have had a regular medicine interaction; could have died because of diprivan; could have taken too much medication. I mean, it could be ANYTHING. And that's the problem.

Don't turn this site into baby-TMZ.

If that weren't bad enough, apparently these bags of "drugs" were magically invisible until Monday. Thursday, it happens. Friday, Saturday, Sunday goes by when family members are removing personal items of Mike's from the house. Monday, apparently the invisibility wore off because the cops come back and low and behold, find "two bags of drugs" allegedly it in the house. See how easy it was for me to go there?

I remember during the trial on false molestation allegations, Dimond claiming they took "big boxes of evidence" from the house. Remember that? It turned out to be absolutely nothing. Remember those non-existent "love letters" which her law enforcement source claimed were absolutely there? Only, not.

How much of the stuff in those bags were full of "drugs", and how much were full of medical supplies like gauze, band-aids, alcohol preps, ointment, over-the-counter medicines like tylenol, children medication, etc, etc. etc?

This is WHY it's so dangerous to speculate on unsubstantiated or unfounded information which may or may not be in context.
 
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Whoa182 said:
well it will be found from toxicology if it was used :( whats the point of planting it in the home?
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This was probably already answered, but after watching numerous shows that I recorded and what Sanje Gupta (sp check that) said on CNN regarding this drug (that is NOT a controlled substance or important to the DEA) , YOU WILL NOT be able to find this in his system because it's gone as fast as you can say Humperdink!

I have the small bit of LKL recording with the one Nurse and Sanje Gupta talking about this from a few days ago...

My heart is crushed but also angry that the dr that was trying to revive him on the day Michael passed away did NOT call for 911 until 25 to 30 minutes AFTER he was trying to revive him.

I am furious... just furious. Bad enough to know he was calling this nurse on Father's day saying he was not feeling well.. and then to find out the NIGHT BEFORE he passed away, he was not doing well and a dr. was there, but the day he passed away, they waited 25 to 30 minutes before calling 911

I am just devestated!
 
you are right, whisper. I just hope that whatever comes out as the death cause, people don't blame Michael. it would make everything sadder. and if the cause is not natural, I also hope that fan community fights for justice just like during the trial.
 
CindyRilla said:
This was probably already answered, but after watching numerous shows that I recorded and what Sanje Gupta (sp check that) said on CNN regarding this drug (that is NOT a controlled substance or important to the DEA) , YOU WILL NOT be able to find this in his system because it's gone as fast as you can say Humperdink!

I have the small bit of LKL recording with the one Nurse and Sanje Gupta talking about this from a few days ago...

My heart is crushed but also angry that the dr that was trying to revive him on the day Michael passed away did NOT call for 911 until 25 to 30 minutes AFTER he was trying to revive him.

I am furious... just furious. Bad enough to know he was calling this nurse on Father's day saying he was not feeling well.. and then to find out the NIGHT BEFORE he passed away, he was not doing well and a dr. was there, but the day he passed away, they waited 25 to 30 minutes before calling 911

I am just devestated!
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Yes, Ditrivan WOULD be found in his system. There was no time for his body to clear it.
 
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