Christina Aguilera's New Album Bionic *Update Post 68: War With Label Over Sales"

[ASIS]

your last statement blows your entire argument right out of the water. first of all, what you say is not the truth. it's your opinion. secondly, no..i don't see any low points in MJ's career. again, the timing of both releases makes that impossible. thirdly, if Christina adopts your opinions, then her career is over. she shouldn't be panicking right now. she chose to go into a different direction. and you are ignoring what just happened on itunes. if you're willing to do this, then you are right. this argument is a lost cause and i'll do less than go to pm. i'll quit.

Why are you taking this so personally? How does my argument mean Christina's career is already over? Are you implying a single #3 video on itunes is equivalent to 3 #1 Singles on billboard? Are you honestly trying to tell me it's the same thing? She chose a direction and it's quite obvious, for now at least, that it's a mistake. And no, I'm sticking with the facts, not opinions, if you can prove that timing is the only factor that diminished Invincible's sales in comparison to Thriller then i'll reconsider. Until then, all you have going is pure speculation.

EDIT: and while where's here debating for less than a freaking day, You Lost Me fell 2 spots on iTunes charts. The album nor the Single are anywhere to be seen on sight either.

 

[144000]

Why are you taking this so personally? How does my argument mean Christina's career is already over? Are you implying a single #3 video on itunes is equivalent to 3 #1 Singles on billboard? Are you honestly trying to tell me it's the same thing? She chose a direction and it's quite obvious, for now at least, that it's a mistake. And no, I'm sticking with the facts, not opinions, if you can prove that timing is the only factor that diminished Invincible's sales in comparison to Thriller then i'll reconsider. Until then, all you have going is pure speculation.

i'll just say that you're disagreeing with yourself. and it's impossible to see what you say as anything other than speculation. i'm not taking anything personally. i'm not making any money off Christina. lol. i'm just saying that you have an unfortunate sabermetric way of looking at things. and it's a good thing ur not managing Christina. as long as she's happy with what she's doing, that's all that matters.

if virgin records owner Branson invests in something, and misses, i would call it a teachable moment. you would call it a failure. this is what this is all about. attitude makes all the difference in the world. and your attitude about this couldn't help Christina. her attitude about it, can keep her going. you can't possibly turn a subjective thing like this, into 'fact'ualization. invincibles sales can't diminish as long as the album is selling. get it?

but there is one truth here. a person's life is directed by how that person thinks.

 

[ASIS]

i'll just say that you're disagreeing with yourself. and it's impossible to see what you say as anything other than speculation. i'm not taking anything personally. i'm not making any money off Christina. lol. i'm just saying that you have an unfortunate sabermetric way of looking at things. and it's a good thing ur not managing Christina. as long as she's happy with what she's doing, that's all that matters.

This is very insulting, don't do it again. Argue my argument, don't argue my personality.

virgin records owner Branson invests in something, and misses, i would call it a teachable moment.

So you agree that Bionic was a miss?

 

[144000]

This is very insulting, don't do it again. Argue my argument, don't argue my personality.


So you agree that Bionic was a miss?

no. she sold on itunes. how is that a miss? i will take one thing from your argument. you asked how can i compare itunes with other achievments of hers? that's just it. i don't make the comparison. i count itunes as additional sales to her past sales. how can making money equate to losing money?

 

[ASIS]

no. she sold on itunes. how is that a miss? i will take one thing from your argument. you asked how can i compare itunes with other achievments of hers? that's just it. i don't make the comparison. i count itunes as additional sales to her past sales. how can making money equate to losing money?

Because she didn't make the album for free. It costed millions. And all they got is an album that's #130 on the charts, no single in the top 200. And a video premiere that's didn't even catch the first place.

 

[144000]

Because she didn't make the album for free. It costed millions. And all they got is an album that's #130 on the charts, no single in the top 200. And a video premiere that's didn't even catch the first place.

investing money is not the same as losing money. that takes me back to Branson.

she made money. she is on itunes. it's worth repeating. there are different charts made up, everyday...millions of ways to describe how something is performing. apparently, people make up new categories everyday. so, you might as well include itunes. you can't unring that bell. plus as long as the clock keeps ticking, she is still selling. so that is the undeniable proof that something cannot be called a failure, or a miss, unless her career is put to a complete stop, altogether. or if the clock stops ticking.

 

[ASIS]

investing money is not the same as losing money. that takes me back to Branson.

she made money. she is on itunes. it's worth repeating. there are different charts made up, everyday...millions of ways to describe how something is performing. apparently, people make up new categories everyday. so, you might as well include itunes. you can't unring that bell.

Investing? Investing in what? Her only project that's doing well is a video, not even the single is making a single bump on the industry. I really hope you're right for Christina's sake but. It seems like the album already run it's course 5 weeks from release.

 

[144000]

Investing? Investing in what? Her only project that's doing well is a video, not even the single is making a single bump on the industry. I really hope you're right for Christina's sake but. It seems like the album already run it's course 5 weeks from release.

why are you making that prediction? and furthermore, you are using the word 'seems'. and why don't you see that video as success? like i said, people make up categories everyday. take away some of those categories, and the video is more appreciated. the fact that those other categories are there, does not take away from the video. people are still purchasing it. and that vid includes the song. and why are you putting the kabosh on this after only one month?

 

[ASIS]

why are you making that prediction? and furthermore, you are using the word 'seems'. and why don't you see that video as success? like i said, people make up categories everyday. take away some of those categories, and the video is more appreciated. the fact that those other categories are there, does not take away from the video. people are still purchasing it. and that vid includes the song. and why are you putting the kabosh on this after only one month?

Because it's not making a splash on the market. As I've already noted, You Lost Me already fell 2 spots since we started debating. Yes, it's still making money, and yes, it's still a good thing. But it's slipping off so fast it's not even funny. The album has been out 5 weeks and yet it has barely broke the 200,000 mark. In comparison, Back to Basics has sold 346,000 copies in it's first week in the US alone. You honestly think that's not something to worry about?

 

[144000]

Because it's not making a splash on the market. As I've already noted, You Lost Me already fell 2 spots since we started debating. Yes, it's still making money, and yes, it's still a good thing. But it's slipping off so fast it's not even funny. The album has been out 5 weeks and yet it has barely broke the 200,000 mark. In comparison, Back to Basics has sold 346,000 copies in it's first week in the US alone. You honestly think that's not something to worry about?

You Lost Me fell 2 spots, where?

and how is the continuing of making money something to worry about? what is a 'splash'? she is still moving forward. when she stops selling altogether, then we have something to worry about. if she sold 346,000 in five weeks, would you call it a flop?

if she sold 200,000 of back to basics in the first week alone, and then 200,001 in five weeks of her latest, would you call that a flop?

if she sold 346,000 in five weeks of back to basics, and then, 200,000 of her latest in five weeks, would you call that a flop?

if she sold 346,000 in five weeks of back to basics, and 200,000 of her latest in the first week alone, would you call that a flop?

the fact that she's been out there a while, and people wanna look for a reason to be critical of her, because of her immense talent, as she continues while time passes, is what every release from now on, is up against. and that makes later releases more impressive than earlier ones, because the later releases have more adversaries than the earlier ones, because of human nature. we want to be harder on an artist, later. we didn't want to, when the artist first came out. so, a unit selling against our critical nature cannot be compared with a unit selling when we knew nothing of the artist, in the beginning. so the sale of one unit, of an established artist, is even more impressive than the single sale of one unit of someone we never heard of. and the clock keeps ticking. what we saw as a splash, years ago, is not seen as a splash, today. but that doesn't mean it's not a splash. it just means we no longer want to see success as success. i fell for it, when i first saw the article. now, i'm not falling for it, anymore.

 

[ASIS]

You Lost Me fell 2 spots, where?

and how is the continuing of making money something to worry about? what is a 'splash'? she is still moving forward.

on iTunes, she was 3.. now she's 5.

And continuing to make money is good, but not making enough to warrant profit is bad. I don't want her album to flop but it's looking like it will barely break even.

 

[144000]

on iTunes, she was 3.. now she's 5.

And continuing to make money is good, but not making enough to warrant profit is bad. I don't want her album to flop but it's looking like it will barely break even.

but how is it not warranting profit, if it is still making money? i edited my post, since you quoted it. you might want to look at it, again.

 

[Travis]

I know no one is calling Invincible or American Life flops - but I wanted to provide a little more information on the American Life album (I think we all know Invincible's history). American Life debuted at #1 in the USA and in many other countries. The single "Die Another Day" peaked at #8 and the title track "American Life" peaked at #38 on the Hot 100. As mentioned before, Madonna scored 5 #1 dance hits. The album went gold, and was later certified platinum in the US. Also mentioned before, it went on to sell over 5 million copies worldwide. Yes, it was one of her lowest performing albums in the states, but again, worldwide, it performed rather well despite the bad press that lead many to believe she failed. It didn't help that Madonna took an anti-war stance during a very tough time in US history (911 fallout/war) - made a controversial album cover and video (and of course the title track questioned our selfish ways as Americans) causing a bit of a backlash (not Dixie Chicks level of backlash but you get the point). The album in general was a VERY drastic change in style and sound (very rough around the edges and dark). Of course, despite bad press and whatnot, Madonna took the album on the road and cleaned house performing live all over the world with her Reinvention World Tour.

P.S. Many claimed Madonna's last album, Hard Candy, massively flopped because it sold "only" around 4 million copies worldwide and despite the album being a top 10 best seller of '08 (and don't forget that in today's economy album sales are in the crapper and record companies are going out of business left and right thanks to illegal downloads, etc). The album debuted at #1 in the USA and many other countries. Also, the single "4 Minutes" peaked at #3 in the US and #1 in most other countries across the globe and went on to become Madonna's biggest hit since "Vogue" 20 year prior, selling over 6 million copies worldwide of the single alone. She also scored 3 more #1 dance hits.

http://www.mediatraffic.de/albums-2008.htm

 

[Tony R]

Travis, you neglected to mention that it's also her best album. Also she never plays the blame game when an album doesn't sell well, no record company wars just moves on to the next project.

 

[Travis]

Travis, you neglected to mention that it's also her best album. Also she never plays the blame game when an album doesn't sell well, no record company wars just moves on to the next project.

You're so right. American Life is also my favorite album. It's so deeply personal and you can tell it comes from her heart. It's such a departure for her in so many ways.

And you're also right about Madonna never playing the blame game. She's always looking ahead and never standing still. She doesn't have time for it, and it's one of the many reasons I love her. She doesn't even really take the time to celebrate her accomplishments.

All the "best selling female artist" awards that have been handed out to Mariah and Celine were originally offered to her but she turned them down. Even MTV's "Icon" show dedicated to Janet was originally offered to Madonna but she wanted nothing to do with it.

I guess Madonna knows she's the Queen and doesn't feel the need to defend her throne. Either that or she simply doesn't care about awards and titles. It's probably a little bit of both.

 

[Starde]

I posted the video so the fact can't be argued. Christina DID throw her gum or whatever it was out in to the crowd. I challenge anyone to watch that and tell me that there was an assistant out in the crowd to catch it. Don't be ridiculous! Nice try. The proof is in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSclS5QHwzE

Also, I've never claimed Madonna, Mariah or any other artist to be an angels (nor do they) but unless you have video proof of what you claim Madonna did, I don't believe it. I'm a big fan and I've never heard about that. Also, even if it did happen, I don't know in what context it happened. Besides, Madonna isn't the one under fire here and there is a big difference between Xtina and Madonna or Mariah. Of course big stars have their quirks (liking things a certain way) but that has nothing to do with treating others around you like common garbage. Even MJ had his demands. Again, those are different things.

I have provided substantial proof of Xtina's bad reputation and behavior both in writing and in video.

No hard feelings here either.

I've been a fan of Christina, especially her music, since the late 90's, but after watching some of those videos above, I became very disappointed in her. :no: And it's a shame really since she's so talented.

 

[8701girl]

I just watched that vid of her throwing gum ...that was rude & unexpected

 

[144000]

i do think she needs to clean up her attitude. if she doesn't do that, that COULD give her a reason to worry about her sales in the future.

 

[prettygirlmj]

^ She needs to learn some humility from The Kings (Michael and Elvis). Both men were sweet and generous to anyone who stood before them.

She ain't going to be in the scene in 5 years if she keeps up with that attitude.

 

[8701girl]

i do think she needs to clean up her attitude. if she doesn't do that, that COULD give her a reason to worry about her sales in the future.

Yep totally.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

You're so right. American Life is also my favorite album. It's so deeply personal and you can tell it comes from her heart. It's such a departure for her in so many ways.

And you're also right about Madonna never playing the blame game. She's always looking ahead and never standing still. She doesn't have time for it, and it's one of the many reasons I love her. She doesn't even really take the time to celebrate her accomplishments.

All the "best selling female artist" awards that have been handed out to Mariah and Celine were originally offered to her but she turned them down. Even MTV's "Icon" show dedicated to Janet was originally offered to Madonna but she wanted nothing to do with it.

I guess Madonna knows she's the Queen and doesn't feel the need to defend her throne. Either that or she simply doesn't care about awards and titles. It's probably a little bit of both.

WOW.

REALLY? That is amazing...

 

[Travis]

WOW.

REALLY? That is amazing...

Yes, really. I don't think Madonna likes reflecting on the past too much. She doesn't seem to have time for it or enjoy getting rewards or titles thrown at her. She's always on the next big project. No time to look back.

 

[xo_lola_xo]

Yes, really. I don't think Madonna likes reflecting on the past too much. She doesn't seem to have time for it or enjoy getting rewards or titles thrown at her. She's always on the next big project. No time to look back.

That's ironic considering that she has a reputation of an attention seeker. She must be all for the music.

Back to Christina, she would do much better if she just lost the sheer arrogance and opened up.

 

[ASIS]

That's ironic considering that she has a reputation of an attention seeker. She must be all for the music.

Back to Christina, she would do much better if she just lost the sheer arrogance and opened up.

attention comes with the job really. EVERY star wants as much attention as possible. What Madonna doesn't want is being seen as a "then" person. She doesn't want these awards because she doesn't want people to think that she has done it all. She obviously has fuel left.

That's what I think anyway, travis help my BSing please

 

[Travis]

attention comes with the job really. EVERY star wants as much attention as possible. What Madonna doesn't want is being seen as a "then" person. She doesn't want these awards because she doesn't want people to think that she has done it all. She obviously has fuel left.

That's what I think anyway, travis help my BSing please

No, you're right. I think you hit the nail right on the head, so to speak. I'm sure Madonna doesn't like reflecting on the past or accepting awards (etc) because it makes her feel over and done (something to collect dust on a shelf). I don't think Madonna could ever take time off to just relax. She doesn't feel content unless she's doing something ambitious, be it an album, book, tour, clothing line or film (which Madonna is currently working on directing a film and unveiling a new clothing line with her daughter).

 

[Agent M]

but if the artist doesn't think they are disappointed, that's all that matters. if you are the fan, and you are disappointed..that's on you.

But Michael was "disappointed" with the lack of promotion and lower sales of Invincible, hence the tacky protest against Tommy Mottola then the CEO of Sony Music Entertainment.

if you are the fan, and you are disappointed..that's on you. that doesn't hurt the artist. i, as a fan, was not disappointed with Invincible sales

It does "hurt the artist" if large swaths of fans are disappointed because they are less likely to buy the album and singles, download, and request airplay. Invincible's relatively low sales are a reflection of its lack of popularity in comparison to the other albums. It's relatively low popularity is also reflected in the absence of songs in This Is It.

if you think Invincible was anything less than a bright spot in MJ's career.

no..i don't see any low points in MJ's career.

But are you honestly trying to tell me that MJ has no low points throughout his career? Are you trying to convince me that Invincible was just as successful as Thriller? If there is a peak, there is a base. Thriller was MJ's peak, and Invincible was his base. Take it how you will, but that's the truth.

In the March 2002 Vibe magazine interview, Michael was asked "How was it to be competing for sales with the likes of 'N Sync and Britney Spears, children who were basically born at the height of your fame?" [Britney and Justin were born in 1981; Thriller was released in 1982.] Michael answered the question by saying "it's a great honor. I'm happy." He didn't deny the fact that that period was "the height of [his] fame" due to the unparalleled commercial success and cultural impact of the Thriller album.

Invincible, while a very good album and successful by any standard other than Michael's own, was not a "bright spot" in his career. It was the "low point" Michael Jackson fans waited 8 years for him to hopefully recover from. That's part of the great tragedy of his premature passing. He was on the verge of a comeback from the lowest point in his career.

It will be interesting to see if Christina Aguilera can recover from Bionic, the low point of her career thus far. Hopefully, her fans won't have to wait 8 years to find out.

Travis, you neglected to mention that it's also her best album. Also she never plays the blame game when an album doesn't sell well, no record company wars just moves on to the next project.

Was that a jab at Michael who famously feuded with Sony as I alluded to above? Whatever the legitimacy of his complaints, however, I do he think could have handled the dispute with more dignity and tact.

All the "best selling female artist" awards that have been handed out to Mariah and Celine were originally offered to her but she turned them down. Even MTV's "Icon" show dedicated to Janet was originally offered to Madonna but she wanted nothing to do with it.

Well, Michael seemed to revel in receiving them so I don't know if you're cryptically criticizing him for it.

No, you're right. I think you hit the nail right on the head, so to speak. I'm sure Madonna doesn't like reflecting on the past or accepting awards (etc) because it makes her feel over and done (something to collect dust on a shelf). I don't think Madonna could ever take time off to just relax. She doesn't feel content unless she's doing something ambitious, be it an album, book, tour, clothing line or film (which Madonna is currently working on directing a film and unveiling a new clothing line with her daughter).

But couldn't being recognized for impressive achievements spur further such achievements? By her standards, what's so "ambitious" about that given the fact that she's done it all before? As for her foray back into film, well I guess you have to admire her persistence.

 

[ASIS]

Agent M, you need to realize that artists behave in different ways to keep pushing themselves forward. Michael for instance, took on a very mysterious persona when he became a cultural phenomenon. He refused to do any interviews for quite a long time. In fact, his interviews are so scarce it always seemed like an event whenever he made a new one. Other acts, such as the beatles, were very open to the world even when they were at the peak of their career. I don't think there is a correct behavior or a faulty one, the same is true with the way they like to view their achievements. Michael loved awards, and so does Madonna for that matter. The difference is, Madonna feels like these awards will ultimately cloud her mentality and will make her feel stuck in the past, whereas MJ found a way to deal with that problem.

BTW I think I know why Christina's album is tanking. She's not even the main freaking subject OF HER OWN THREAD :lol: that's just sad..

 

[Travis]

BTW I think I know why Christina's album is tanking. She's not even the main freaking subject OF HER OWN THREAD :lol: that's just sad..

I couldn't help but chuckle at that. And yes, honestly, I really don't think people find her all that interesting.

 

[144000]

But Michael was "disappointed" with the lack of promotion and lower sales of Invincible, hence the tacky protest against Tommy Mottola then the CEO of Sony Music Entertainment.

It does "hurt the artist" if large swaths of fans are disappointed because they are less likely to buy the album and singles, download, and request airplay. Invincible's relatively low sales are a reflection of its lack of popularity in comparison to the other albums. It's relatively low popularity is also reflected in the absence of songs in This Is It.




In the March 2002 Vibe magazine interview, Michael was asked "How was it to be competing for sales with the likes of 'N Sync and Britney Spears, children who were basically born at the height of your fame?" [Britney and Justin were born in 1981; Thriller was released in 1982.] Michael answered the question by saying "it's a great honor. I'm happy." He didn't deny the fact that that period was "the height of [his] fame" due to the unparalleled commercial success and cultural impact of the Thriller album.

Invincible, while a very good album and successful by any standard other than Michael's own, was not a "bright spot" in his career. It was the "low point" Michael Jackson fans waited 8 years for him to hopefully recover from. That's part of the great tragedy of his premature passing. He was on the verge of a comeback from the lowest point in his career.

It will be interesting to see if Christina Aguilera can recover from Bionic, the low point of her career thus far. Hopefully, her fans won't have to wait 8 years to find out.


Was that a jab at Michael who famously feuded with Sony as I alluded to above? Whatever the legitimacy of his complaints, however, I do he think could have handled the dispute with more dignity and tact.

Well, Michael seemed to revel in receiving them so I don't know if you're cryptically criticizing him for it.

But couldn't being recognized for impressive achievements spur further such achievements? By her standards, what's so "ambitious" about that given the fact that she's done it all before? As for her foray back into film, well I guess you have to admire her persistence.

Agent M, MIchael did not express disappointment in the sales of Invincible. he just expressed how angry he was at Sony. when he did the interview with Carson Daly, he showed he was fine with the performance of Invincible. especially with all the adversity against it. there are no valleys in MJ's career. especially when you consider the adversity he faced. and if you are implying that people are weak minded enough to listen to other people and not find out stuff for themselves, then you are underestimating a lot of people. Invincible hit number 1 in its first weeks, around the world, and Carson Daly interviewed him on mtv for it. it's just plain really sad for anyone to call that a failure, or even a 'relative disappointment'. but that kind of thinking is why artists might not want to tour anymore, if people are never satisfied. the bad habit is the more they get, the more they want, and they don't appreciate, what just happened, yesterday, when that yesterday was considered a dream, before it happened. and making comparison studies between albums is a bad, destructive way to look at business. looking forward. that's what it's all about. the reason why MJ's career is so successful, is because he does NOT see Invincible as a disappointment. that has been his whole mindset, as he, himself has voiced. and the reason why his success is so monumental, is because of his rare..very rare positive way of thinking. and the way he handled the sony situation in 2002 was just right. maybe you weren't in the firing line, and going through what MJ was going through for what seemed like too many decades, but, after awhile, enough is enough. better to walk a mile in the moccasin than make a judgment, without doing so.

also, i guess u didn't really watch the movie, but ''threatened' was featured in THis Is It. the movie. you really seem to be looking for the negative, where there is none. there are many who would love to have MJ's so called 'negatives' in his career.

 

[ASIS]

Agent M, MIchael did not express disappointment in the sales of Invincible. he just expressed how angry he was at Sony. when he did the interview with Carson Daly, he showed he was fine with the performance of Invincible. especially with all the adversity against it. there are no valleys in MJ's career. especially when you consider the adversity he faced. and if you are implying that people are weak minded enough to listen to other people and not find out stuff for themselves, then you are underestimating a lot of people. Invincible hit number 1 in its first weeks, around the world, and Carson Daly interviewed him on mtv for it. it's just plain really sad for anyone to call that a failure, or even a 'relative disappointment'. but that kind of thinking is why artists might not want to tour anymore, if people are never satisfied. the bad habit is the more they get, the more they want, and they don't appreciate, what just happened, yesterday, when that yesterday was considered a dream, before it happened. and making comparison studies between albums is a bad, destructive way to look at business. looking forward. that's what it's all about. the reason why MJ's career is so successful, is because he does NOT see Invincible as a disappointment. that has been his whole mindset, as he, himself has voiced. and the reason why his success is so monumental, is because of his rare..very rare positive way of thinking. and the way he handled the sony situation in 2002 was just right. maybe you weren't in the firing line, and going through what MJ was going through for what seemed like too many decades, but, after awhile, enough is enough. better to walk a mile in the moccasin than make a judgment, without doing so.

also, i guess u didn't really watch the movie, but ''threatened' was featured in THis Is It. the movie. you really seem to be looking for the negative, where there is none. there are many who would love to have MJ's so called 'negatives' in his career.

Invincible is NOT a flop, but it wasn't as successful as his previous records, ESPECIALLY thriller.