Christina Aguilera's New Album Bionic *Update Post 68: War With Label Over Sales"

[ASIS]

Trump can get a temper. we've seen that. the question is, DID he resign? i'm not looking for the smoke, here. i'm looking for the fire.

do you know why it's moot to ask my opinion of someone other than me? because a person's success depends on their own attitude. you can't really ask person A if person B is successful. that doesn't make any sense. you can only legitimately ask person A if person A is successful. person A's answer is the real answer. if you find Donald Trump, ask him if he thinks he's a failure. and i'm not asking for knee jerk. i'm asking for his general assessment of himself.

so i have to hear from GM, to answer your question.

i am able to answer about Michael, because i have heard his own quotes. his most poignant one, to me, is..

'believe in yourself, even if the whole world is against you'.

Good, so now that you acknowledge that our opinion isn't really the deciding factor, only Michael's opinion on this matter is important. And he also believes his period during the mid 80's was his height.

 

[144000]

Good, so now that you acknowledge that our opinion isn't really the deciding factor, only Michael's opinion on this matter is important. And he also believes his period during the mid 80's was his height.

we don't know what he believes. all we know is what he said. and his statements during more than one era state that he didn't believe that in only one era, was his height. you can't read a person's mind. you can only go by what he said. you also have to factor in that MJ was humble. people want him to say what they want to hear, so his statements of lifelong belief get overlooked in favor of peoples' hearing what only they want to hear. i believe that is selfish.

like i said, MJs Invincible album performed against a brick wall, and crashed through it, which is more than i can say for Thriller, which didn't have those obstacles, and they are both still selling. plus MJ believed that Invincible is better than Thriller. so that is the same as always speaking as a person at his peak. always at his peak. but again, he was humble.

i'm sorry, but i have to say this. you fighting me so hard to get me to lean on the side of saying MJ had a low point, and your trying to make it out as if it were truth, even though it isn't(and there is no other way to say it) is truly sad. but looking for a low point, so hard, and still being on this site, as a member is even more of a testament to MJ, than those members who may come across as 'yes' people. though i am objective. i just can't find a low point in his career. especially since he ALWAYS believed in himself, equally, throughout his life. and to be honest, i don't think there are any yes people on this site. great music never dies.

 

[ASIS]

we don't know what he believes. all we know is what he said. and his statements during more than one era state that he didn't believe that in only one era, was his height. you can't read a person's mind. you can only go by what he said. you also have to factor in that MJ was humble. people want him to say what they want to hear, so his statements of lifelong belief get overlooked in favor of peoples' hearing what only they want to hear. i believe that is selfish.

like i said, MJs Invincible album performed against a brick wall, and crashed through it, which is more than i can say for Thriller, which didn't have those obstacles, and they are both still selling. plus MJ believed that Invincible is better than Thriller. so that is the same as always speaking as a person at his peak. always at his peak. but again, he was humble.

Actually, he explicitly noted that period as his height:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMMQ9d7EcI&playnext=1&videos=z61TcSO8mrA

He also says even he can't keep up with thriller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4tpBImi18&playnext=1&videos=RSoHv_53OLU#t=05m10s

And thriller faced A LOT of walls, don't act like it was picnic for MJ.

I guess that's that then.
BTW the term "low point" doesn't NOT mean bad or unsuccessful, the fact that Vince is his low point means A LOT and it also speaks volumes at how successful MJ is. Oh and i'm not fighting you. If anything you're the one who started this argument and you're the one who criticized my personality a few pages ago.

 

[144000]

Actually, he explicitly noted that period as his height:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTMMQ9d7EcI&playnext=1&videos=z61TcSO8mrA

He also says even he can't keep up with thriller: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX4tpBImi18&playnext=1&videos=RSoHv_53OLU#t=05m10s

And thriller faced A LOT of walls, don't act like it was picnic for MJ.

I guess that's that then.

that's not that. like i said, he believed Invincible was better. and his whole life was no picnic, but 2001 was the most publicly humiliating business wise time in his life. so, his whole life was a peak. a statement, by a humble person, fashioned for hard hearted listeners in the media and a statement of belief are two different things. he also said, cleverly, that it's not how the story begins, but how it ends. and he was referring to the continuing sales of all his albums, including Invincible. and still, release time, is a big factor, especially when two albums are thirty years apart.

 

[ASIS]

that's not that. like i said, he believed Invincible was better. and his whole life was no picnic, but 2001 was the most publicly humiliating business wise time in his life. so, his whole life was a peak. a statement, by a humble person, fashioned for hard hearted listeners in the media and a statement of belief are two different things.

He never said Vince was better, he only said Invincible had "acceptable" songs. As you have said, 2000s were tough times for MJ and hence Invincible suffered commercially from it. I know that it would have performed significantly better if it was released on another time, but it wasn't. That period of his life was much worse than the one in the 80's or 90's for that matter. The fact that you know that period was humiliating business wise means you know Thriller was a much smoother ride, So why are you still not accepting that it was far more successful than Invincible?

 

[144000]

He never said Vince was better, he only said Invincible had "acceptable" songs. As you have said, 2000s were tough times for MJ and hence Invincible suffered commercially from it. I know that it would have performed significantly better if it was released on another time, but it wasn't. That period of his life was much worse than the one in the 80's or 90's for that matter. The fact that you know that period was humiliating business wise means you know Thriller was a much smoother ride, So why are you still not accepting that it was far more successful than Invincible?

because it was not far more successful than INvincible, and, the hard times make the sales of Invincible more significant, and he DID say Invincible was better, in a telephone interview online, promoting the Invincible album, where people got to call in and ask him questions, and he had a cold at the time. i may be off on that interview and may be mistaking it for another, but he definitely said Invincible was better.

again, people hoping to look for arrogance in his statements, instead of humility. he's not going to go about it saying like most artists, something like..'this is the shit'. the greatest music ever written'. instead, he said Invincible was better than thriller, therefore stating comparisons of his own albums, without sounding pompous about himself, compared to other artists. the term 'acceptable' is a term designed to sound humble. and you know that. that does not mean he didn't have a very high opinion of what he wrote, musically.

 

[ASIS]

because it was not far more successful than INvincible, and, the hard times make the sales of Invincible more significant, and he DID say Invincible was better, in a telephone interview online, promoting the Invincible album, where people got to call in and ask him questions, and he had a cold at the time. i may be off on that interview and may be mistaking it for another, but he definitely said Invincible was better.

He didn't, he said he always wanted outdo himself. But when asked about how the process of this specific album took place. He said he found the 16 of which were "acceptable", he also had a hard time remembering one of the songs (whatever happens to be more specific). In that same interview, he also said Thriller was the achievement he was most proud of when asked about his favorite record in Guinness's book of world records.

Thriller is a much more significant album than Invincible, it's the album that broke the barriers for black people in the entertainment industry.

 

[144000]

He didn't, he said he always wanted outdo himself. But when asked about how the process of this specific album took place. He said he found the 16 of which were "acceptable", he also had a hard time remembering one of the songs (whatever happens to be more specific). In that same interview, he also said Thriller was the achievement he was most proud of when asked about his favorite Guinness's book of world records.

Thriller is a much more significant album than Invincible, it's the album that broke the barriers for black people in the entertainment industry.

again, you are penalizing time of release. so, THriller hit first, but all the albums are still selling. Thriller doing what it did for breaking that barrier, has nothing to do with the success of Invincible. right now you are going down toward clearly giving your opinion about which album you like better. that's kinda going off topic, while we've already gone off the thread topic as it is. however, if we are describing the definition of success vs. failure, which is the gist of this thread, although Aguilera is supposed to be the artist we are talking about, then we're not going off the general topic.

but it is clear how much you like THriller. i like it too, but it's not more successful than Invincible. do you know when THriller was considered the best selling album of all time, the first time? it was when it hit the forty million mark. Bad probably passed that number by now, because it was behind by ten million, the year that Thriller hit 40 million. and that was yearsss ago. so..as long as the story is still being written, all his albums are his peaks. he's already outdone himself. but he was not the type of person to admit it. many people were waiting for him to, so they could kill him with their verbal attacks.

we seem to have forgotten that he sold out the 02, fifty shows. just another peak in his life. even moreso, because it came after a lifetime's worth of press-induced career destroying controversy. and 12 years without touring. but it didn't destroy MJ's career, did it? that's even a better peak than Thriller.

 

[ASIS]

again, you are penalizing time of release. so, THriller hit first, but all the albums are still selling. Thriller doing what it did for breaking that barrier, has nothing to do with the success of Invincible. right now you are going down toward clearly giving your opinion about which album you like better. that's kinda going off topic, while we've already gone off the thread topic as it is. however, if we are describing the definition of success vs. failure, which is the gist of this thread, although Aguilera is supposed to be the artist we are talking about, then we're not going off the general topic.

but it is clear how much you like THriller. i like it too, but it's not more successful than Invincible. do you know when THriller was considered the best selling album of all time, the first time? it was when it hit the forty million mark. Bad probably passed that number by now, because it was behind by ten million, the year that Thriller hit 40 million. and that was yearsss ago. so..as long as the story is still being written, all his albums are his peaks. he's already outdone himself. but he was not the type of person to admit it. many people were waiting for him to, so they could kill him with their verbal attacks.

Thriller is actually my third least favorite album. And Invincible is the one that made me the MJ fan I am today. You're reading into my personality again (quite inaccurately I might add), and I really don't appreciate that.

And again, you're saying they are still selling. And I know that, but i'm saying Thriller is still selling more than Invincible today (and no, the fact that it came before has nothing to do with it, as evident a few pages ago).

May I ask you another question? Which one is selling MORE today? Thriller or Invincible? And if you don't know that answer then how do you know they are selling at all?

 

[144000]

Thriller is actually my third least favorite album. And Invincible is the one that made me the MJ fan I am today. You're reading into my personality again (quite inaccurately I might add), and I really don't appreciate that.

And again, you're saying they are still selling. And I know that, but i'm saying Thriller is still selling more than Invincible today (and no, the fact that it came before has nothing to do with it, as evident a few pages ago).

May I ask you another question? Which one is selling MORE today? Thriller or Invincible? And if you don't know that answer then how do you know they are selling at all?

time of release has everything to do with it, and they are both selling equally, because they are both selling. period. and how do you know they are NOT selling. and if Invincible is what made you a fan, how do you know tons of other people weren't made fans by that same album?

 

[ASIS]

we seem to have forgotten that he sold out the 02, fifty shows. just another peak in his life. even moreso, because it came after a lifetime's worth of press-induced career destroying controversy. but it didn't destroy MJ's career, did it? that's even a better peak than Thriller.

This is my point all along. Invincible was his lowest point (WHICH DOES NOT MEAN BAD OR FLOP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT), yet he still managed to top himself again. Christina is not at her peak right now, but if she gathers her mind and works a little harder, she too can reach a new top. That's what I was saying all along.

 

[ASIS]

time of release has everything to do with it, and they are both selling equally, because they are both selling. period. and how do you know they are NOT selling. and if Invincible is what made you a fan, how do you know tons of other people weren't made fans by that same album?

So Christina's album is selling just as well as MJ's albums now? Just because it's selling?

Just what is your definition of the term "sale"?

EDIT: And I know they are selling because I look at the chart I posted which indicate the sales, you didn't even bother to read it. And the last question is irrelevant. I already said Invincible was successful, it obviously gained fans. Thriller brought more fans to the table, if that's where you are going with this.

 

[144000]

So Christina's album is selling just as well as MJ's albums now? Just because it's selling?

Just what is your definition of the term "sale"?

MJ is the best selling of all time. and continuing. nobody's going to catch him. MJ has hit the 40 million mark, at least twice with singular albums, plus a whole lot more, and still counting, with units overall. this whole debate began with you wanting to find a low point in MJ's career. why are you trying so hard for that? and why are you being selective about the things i say, to try to make your point. did you forget what i said about the 02 arena?

 

[ASIS]

MJ is the best selling of all time. and continuing. nobody's going to catch him. MJ has hit the 40 million mark, at least twice with singular albums, plus a whole lot more, and still counting.

Now this is confusing, you say two different albums are selling equally well despite one selling more than the other. Yet another artist's album can't compete even if it's also "selling"? I think Christina's album is selling just as well as all MJ albums simply because it's selling.

 

[144000]

Now this is confusing, you say two different albums are selling equally well despite one selling more than the other. Yet another artist's album can't compete even if it's also "selling"? I think Christina's album is selling just as well as all MJ albums simply because it's selling.

did she hit 40 million first, with one singular album. note, i said the word FIRST. and this wasn't a debate, initially about album sales, it was a debate about you trying to determine, very hard, a low point in MJ's career. did you forget, that i mentioned(now for the third time) the 02 arena?

 

[ASIS]

did she hit 40 million first, with one singular album. note, i said the word FIRST.

I'm talking about sales today, don't freeze time

 

[144000]

I'm talking about sales today, don't freeze time

now you missed the point. i didn't freeze time. i stated the first, and guess what? since the clock keeps ticking and mike keeps selling, that will keep him in front of everybody, with succession of albums over time, that run according to the time of their release. and again, you skipped the 02 arena.

 

[ASIS]

now you missed the point. i didn't freeze time. i stated the first, and guess what? since the clock keeps ticking and mike keeps selling, that will keep him in front of everybody, with succession of albums over time, that run according to the time of their release. and again, you skipped the 02 arena.

Which MJ album is selling more though? Thriller, or Invincible? You keep saying that they are both selling equally well simply because they are selling. So why is Christina's album doing worse than Thriller? It's also selling, right now, as we speak.

I'm not talking about how they will add to the artist, i'm talking about them as individual albums. Three different albums, Thriller, Invincible, and Bionic. Which one is selling more?

And how did I skip the O2 arena?

 

[144000]

Which MJ album is selling more though? Thriller, or Invincible? You keep saying that they are both selling equally well simply because they are selling. So why is Christina's album doing worse than Thriller? It's also selling, right now, as we speak.

I'm not talking about how they will add to the artist, i'm talking about them as individual albums. Three different albums, Thriller, Invincible, and Bionic. Which one is selling more?

And how did I skip the O2 arena?

i don't know how Bionic is doing. but since MJ has passed the forty million mark twice(at least) and is the best selling artist of all time, it's all intertwined. all his albums are doing amazingly well, and he's the best selling artist of all time, and that will never change. you forgot the 02, because we were discussing peaks and valleys in careers. the 02 is another peak. you are going off our subtopic. peaks and valleys in careers. that's the topic, we are debating. and is Christina Aguilera at a peak, a valley, or was she not given the chance to even get started?

 

[ASIS]

i don't know how Bionic is doing. but since MJ has passed the forty million mark twice and is the best selling artist of all time, it's all intertwined. all his albums are doing amazingly well, and he's the best selling artist of all time, and that will never change. you forgot the 02, because we were discussing peaks and valleys in careers. the 02 is another peak. you are going off our subtopic. peaks and valleys in careers. that's the topic, we are debating.

I already addressed the O2 thing in the previous page.

And this is what I don't get, the beatles are the best selling act of all time. Are you trying to tell me that MJ will NEVER be able to catch up? And what does MJ being the best selling artist have to do with thriller outselling Invincible? Yes they all add to his sales count but they are NOT sharing the same sales, they are different.

 

[144000]

I already addressed the O2 thing in the previous page.

And this is what I don't get, the beatles are the best selling act of all time. Are you trying to tell me that MJ will NEVER be able to catch up? And what does MJ being the best selling artist have to do with thriller outselling Invincible? Yes they all add to his sales count but they are NOT sharing the same sales, they are different.

how are the beatles the best selling act? and thriller isn't outselling Invincible. it's just reaching all it's plateaus first. and why are we continuing if you addressed the 02? i didn't see where you addressed it. and Invincible was not his lowest point. you are putting words in my mouth, by saying that i made your point for you, because i did not.

 

[ASIS]

how are the beatles the best selling act? and thriller isn't outselling Invincible. it's just reaching all it's plateaus first. and why are we continuing if you addressed the 02? i didn't see where you addressed it.

check the last page, I did address it.

Yes, Thriller IS outselling Invincible, read the chart I posted a few pages ago. And no, not first, but it reached plateaus Vince will NEVER reach.

And yes, Beatles are the most successful act, MJ is only the most successful solo artist.

 

[ASIS]

. and Invincible was not his lowest point. you are putting words in my mouth, by saying that i made your point for you, because i did not.

I never said you made your point for me :S

 

[144000]

check the last page, I did address it.

Yes, Thriller IS outselling Invincible, read the chart I posted a few pages ago. And no, not first, but it reached plateaus Vince will NEVER reach.

And yes, Beatles are the most successful act, MJ is only the most successful solo artist.

you're wrong. Vince will reach those plateaus. thriller is not outselling Invincible. and do you have the beatles supposed exact numbers? and Invincible was not MJ's lowest point. you put words in my mouth when you said i made your point, because i did not make your point.

 

[ASIS]

you're wrong. Vince will reach those plateaus. thriller is not outselling Invincible.

How do you know that? You said no one will ever reach MJ's sales but I can't say Invincible's sales will never reach thrillers?

and ask Smooth_criminal05. He has the charts.

 

[144000]

How do you know that? You said no one will ever reach MJ's sales but I can't say Invincible's sales will never reach thrillers?

and ask Smooth_criminal05. He has the charts.

reach MJ's pace? no. they won't. but Invincible is moving along with every other MJ album. no need for me to look at SC. i don't know if he's reliable or not. you're entitled to believe those charts if you want. and if the Beatles are...i'm not worried about that. MJ owns the publishing anyway. yes you did say i made your point. you said i proved that Invincible was MJ's lowest point.

 

[ASIS]

reach MJ's pace? no. they won't. but Invincible is moving along with every other MJ album. no need for me to look at SC. i don't know if he's reliable or not. you're entitled to believe those charts if you want. and if the Beatles are...i'm not worried about that. MJ owns the publishing anyway.

What are you talking about? It's not moving along with thriller. Thriller sold more than 4 times as much as Invincible in 2009 and its overall more than 6 times more successful.

There is a much better chance for someone to reach MJ status than Invincible reaching Thriller status.

And SC is very reliable, if you want you can ask him for the sources and he will hand it to you.

 

[ASIS]

r yes you did say i made your point. you said i proved that Invincible was MJ's lowest point.

Please quote me on that because I honestly don't remember me saying such a thing.

 

[144000]

What are you talking about? It's not moving along with thriller. Thriller sold more than 4 times as much as Invincible in 2009 and its overall more than 6 times more successful.

There is a much better chance for someone to reach MJ status than Invincible reaching Thriller status.

And SC is very reliable, if you want you can ask him for the sources and he will hand it to you.

It is moving along with THriller. and it's not his lowest point. all his albums move with Thriller. and there is not a much better chance of someone reaching MJ than Invincible reaching a peak that thriller hit first. all the albums keep selling, equally, relative with timing of release. i keep telling you that. and you believe SC is reliable. i don't know that. i don't care what he hands me. you come here, and say you became fan because of Invincible, and then deny it's selling, at the same time. and that IS what you are doing. you don't know how many more people out there love Invincible. you keep underestimating it. and yet there are so many talking about it. are you going to argue for at least 400 years to brow beat the lie that MJ had a low point?

and aside from that...burying Aguilera, before she has a chance to even leave the starting gate, and allow it to get cold. hurry and bury a career based on impatience.

 

[ASIS]

It is moving along with THriller. and it's not his lowest point. all his albums move with Thriller. and there is not a much better chance of someone reaching MJ than Invincible reaching a peak that thriller hit first. all the albums keep selling, equally, relative with timing of release. i keep telling you that. and you believe SC is reliable. i don't know that. i don't care what he hands me. you come here, and say you became fan because of Invincible, and then deny it's selling, at the same time. and that IS what you are doing. you don't know how many more people out there love Invincible. you keep underestimating it. and yet there are so many talking about it. are you going to argue for at least 400 years to brow beat the lie that MJ had a low point?

What... the hell... are you talking about? :wtf: