US Presidential Election ... [All recent threads merged here]

telecting Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.

True, but in 2000, we actually didn't elect Bush, the majority of voters elected Gore and it was the Supreme Court's decision that prevented Gore from taking office. In 2004, Bush wasn't seen as quite the joke that he is today and I think people were hoping he'd finish what he'd started. The Iraq war had only been going on for about a year at that point.
 
In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.

Well I'm not big on Obama either. It remains to be seen, I suppose, whether or not he's going to be a puppet or actually stand by his promises.

The popular vote itself doesn't actually elect the president. The electoral college does. So while a candidate can lose the popular vote, they can still get in to office if the electoral college votes are in their favor.
 
why do you consider obama a yes man?

Just by watching him. He says what he thinks people want to hear without listening to what is being said. He's coached. And when he doesn't know he agrees with people around him or changes the subject. He was directly asked a question awhile back and instead of answering it he said "Oh the people don't want to hear about that they want to know about..." He didn't have the answers for the question and rather than say he wasn't up to speed on that particular issue (which would have earned him respect) he decided to inform the public of what he wanted them to talk about. If we didn't want to know that answer we wouldn't have asked the question. He gives off the impression of ignorance. Or rather the impression that he thinks we are ignorant. But he covers it well you have to give him that. He plays the part he's been given.
 
In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.
Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.
 
Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.

Agreed. The person who is the most dangerous out of the candidates is Palin. Obama's and Clinton policies were very similar so for anyone to imply he is a blank slate is believing the PR that was spun against him. McCain still had a modicum of respect from me until the latest stunts (race baiting/making their crowds turn into a lynch mob/injecting the terrorist card and fear card) that he pulled when he started failing in the polls.
 
Also, let me share this with you guys. These comments are now coming from Republicans, as well as Democrats -- further expounding on why this is not the same:

Former McCain Campaign Chair John Weaver:


John Weaver, McCain’s former top strategist, said top Republicans have a responsibility to temper this behavior.


“People need to understand, for moral reasons and the protection of our civil society, the differences with Sen. Obama are ideological, based on clear differences on policy and a lack of experience compared to Sen. McCain,” Weaver said. “And from a purely practical political vantage point, please find me a swing voter, an undecided independent, or a torn female voter that finds an angry mob mentality attractive.”

“Sen. Obama is a classic liberal with an outdated economic agenda. We should take that agenda on in a robust manner. As a party we should not and must not stand by as the small amount of haters in our society question whether he is as American as the rest of us. Shame on them and shame on us if we allow this to take hold.”

Republican advisor David Gergen:


COOPER: There’s also the question of ruling after this, and bringing the country together. It’s going to be all the more harder to do that whoever wins with all this anger out there.


GERGEN: This—I think one of the most striking things we’ve seen now in the last few day. We’ve seen it in a Palin rally. We saw it at the McCain rally today. And we saw it to a considerable degree during the rescue package legislation. There is this free floating sort of whipping around anger that could really lead to some violence. I think we’re not far from that.


COOPER: Really?


GERGEN: I think it’s so—well, I really worry when we get people—when you get the kind of rhetoric that you’re getting at these rallies now. I think it’s really imperative that the candidates try to calm people down. And that’s why I’ve argued not only because of the question of the ugliness of it.

Republican Frank Schaeffer:


John McCain: If your campaign does not stop equating Sen. Barack Obama with terrorism, questioning his patriotism and portraying Mr. Obama as "not one of us," I accuse you of deliberately feeding the most unhinged elements of our society the red meat of hate, and therefore of potentially instigating violence.


[snip]


Stop! Think! Your rallies are beginning to look, sound, feel and smell like lynch mobs.


John McCain, you're walking a perilous line. If you do not stand up for all that is good in America and declare that Senator Obama is a patriot, fit for office, and denounce your hate-filled supporters when they scream out "Terrorist" or "Kill him," history will hold you responsible for all that follows.


John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.


Change the atmosphere of your campaign. Talk about the issues at hand. Make your case. But stop stirring up the lunatic fringe of haters, or risk suffering the judgment of history and the loathing of the American people - forever.


We will hold you responsible.

Retiring GOP Congressman Ray LaHood:


LaHood supports the McCain ticket, but doesn't like what he sees at some of the McCain-Palin rallies: When Barack Obama's name has been mentioned by Sarah Palin, there are shouts of "terrorist," and LaHood says Palin should put a stop to it.


"Look it. This doesn't befit the office that she's running for. And frankly, people don't like it."


Congressman LaHood says it could backfire on the Republican ticket.


He says the names that Obama is being called, "Certainly don't reflect the character of the man."

Ta-Nehishi Coates:


When the McCain campaign cast the spell of diabolical jingoism, they have no idea of the forces they are toying with. We remember Martin Luther King's murder as a sad and tragic event. Less remembered is the fact that ground-work for King's murder was seeded, not simply by rank white supremacy, but by people who slandered King as a communist.


This was not some notion bandied about by conspiracy theorist, but an accusation proffered by men who were the pillars of the modern Republican Party:

As late as 1964, Falwell was attacking the 1964 Civil Rights Act as "civil wrongs" legislation. He questioned "the sincerity and intentions of some civil rights leaders such as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., James Farmer, and others, who are known to have left-wing associations." Falwell charged, "It is very obvious that the Communists, as they do in all parts of the world, are taking advantage of a tense situation in our land, and are exploiting every incident to bring about violence and bloodshed."

Falwell was not alone. These men didn't kill Martin Luther King, but they contributed to an atmosphere of nationalism, white supremacy and cheap unreflective patriotism that ultimately got a lot of people killed. Confronted with Aparthied South Africa, men like Helms and Falwell used the same "communist" defense. While Mandella wasted away in prison, they dismissed the whole thing as a communist plot.

Let me be clear--This is the ghost that McCain Campaign is summoning. This is the Ring Of Power that they want to wield. The Muslim charge, the "Hussein" thing is nothing more than today's red-baiting, and it is what it was then--a cover for racists.
David Frum:


Those who press this Ayers line of attack are whipping Republicans and conservatives into a fury that is going to be very hard to calm after November. Is it really wise to send conservatives into opposition in a mood of disdain and fury for a man who may well be the next president of the United States, incidentally the first African-American president? Anger is a very bad political adviser. It can isolate us and push us to the extremes at exactly the moment when we ought to be rebuilding, rethinking, regrouping and recruiting.

Joe Klein:


But seriously, folks, I'm beginning to worry about the level of craziness on the Republican side, the over-the-top, stampede-the-crowd statements by everyone from McCain on down, the vehemence of the crowds that McCain and Palin are drawing with people shouting "Kill him" and "He's a terrorist" and "Off with his head."


Watch the tape of the guy screaming, "He's a terrorist!" McCain seems to shudder at that, he rolls his eyes... and I thought for a moment he'd admonish the man. But he didn't. And now he's selling the Ayres non-story full-time. Yes, yes, it's all he has. True enough: he no longer has his honor. But we are on the edge of some real serious craziness here and it would be nice if McCain did the right thing and told his more bloodthirsty supporters to go home and take a cold shower.

Digby:


We are entering a turbulent period in our country. Validating a bogus accusation that your political rival is a terrorist in our current environment is the most irresponsible thing I've seen a campaign do in many a year. They know they are very likely going to lose this election. And McCain certainly knows that the main reason he is losing is because of the dramatic failures of fellow failed Republican George W. Bush. But even knowing that his candidacy was always very likely doomed is not stopping him from releasing this poison into the bloodstream of the body politic, a poison which will be with us for a long time to come. I guess that's what McCain means when he says that Americans should fight for a cause greater than themselves. That cause, evidently, is him.

Andrew Sullivan:


McCain and Palin have decided to stoke this rage, to foment it, to encourage paranoid notions that somehow Obama is a "secret" terrorist or Islamist or foreigner. These are base emotions in both sense of the word.


But they are also very very dangerous. This is a moment of maximal physical danger for the young Democratic nominee. And McCain is playing with fire. If he really wants to put country first, he will attack Obama on his policies - not on these inflammatory, personal, creepy grounds. This is getting close to the atmosphere stoked by the Israeli far right before the assassination of Rabin.


For God's sake, McCain, stop it. For once in this campaign, put your country first.

John Sweeney:


Sen. John McCain, Gov. Sarah Palin and the leadership of the Republican party have a fundamental moral responsibility to denounce the violent rhetoric that has pervaded recent McCain and Palin political rallies. When rally attendees shout out such attacks as "terrorist" or "kill him" about Sen. Barack Obama, when they are cheered on by crowds incited by McCain-Palin rhetoric -- it is chilling that McCain and Palin do nothing to object.

Paul Krugman:


The crisis isn’t the only scary thing going on. Something very ugly is taking shape on the political scene: as McCain’s chances fade, the crowds at his rallies are, by all accounts, increasingly gripped by insane rage. It’s not just a mob phenomenon — it’s visible in the right-wing media, and to some extent in the speeches of McCain and Palin.


[snip]


What happens when Obama is elected? It will be even worse than it was in the Clinton years. For sure there will be crazy accusations, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see some violence.

Greg Sargent:


To my knowledge neither McCain nor Palin has uttered a single syllable of protest as their crowds indulged their fear and loathing of Obama. It's hard to overstate how reckless and lacking in leadership this is -- and how dangerous this is, too.


[snip]


But neither McCain nor Palin has taken a single step to do anything like that. Surely that's the big story here.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/102538/
 
Well I certainly don't agree with that. Obama and Clinton's (Hillary, that is), policies were practically dead on the same with different tweaks. There is no way that Obama is the same as McCain. McCain has made it clear that he plans war with Iran and that would lead others to jump in it, unlike the Iraq situation. McCain has clearly flip flopped on how he would deal with the economy to the point that his position is no longer clear.

And if anything happens to McCain while he is in office, Palin would be President and at this point, she makes Chency look like a boy scout.

No thank you for worse than what we have right now.

I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:
 
A couple of things I wanna respond to :lol:

Firstly to Shannon, yeah Obama comes across as a yes man, but that's what all good politicians do they say yes to everything and everyone to make them feel their idea has been taken on board... but it doesn't mean that yes he will do all the things he says yes to :lol: that's just politics. Plus no one likes to be told No... you say No after you've gotten their vote.

out of the comments mello just posted this one:
John McCain and Sarah Palin, you are playing with fire, and you know it. You are unleashing the monster of American hatred and prejudice, to the peril of all of us. You are doing this in wartime. You are doing this as our economy collapses. You are doing this in a country with a history of assassinations.

I agree with this one wholeheartedly. The monster is being unleashed and it's disgusting and I'm waiting for someone to tell me the difference between those people in the crowds chanting nigger with their death threats VS people in the middle east getting ready to stone a person to death... cause from where I'm sitting both acts are barbaric.
I'm thankful we've got nothing like this in our elections :ermm:
 
I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:

Trust me, I work just as hard and has just as much to lose as anybody else in America.

But I do think there needs to be some calming. David Brooks was correct in that we can't reduce ourselves to wedge issues and social warfare; we lose our ability to reason and act on emotion...

...and as we all know that has consequences -- intended and unintended...

Besides, as I said to Arx... the markets are on their own. I won't even open my IRA report....nope! You can't make me! :tease::tease::tease:
 
I just don't see where either one of them are going to benefit me - the lowly person who works hard and constantly gets F'd over by the government and big business.

Mello you posted a book :lol: Gotta take a minute to read it :yes:

He's going to lower your taxes, for one, and better regulate insurance companies to make it more affordable and allow you go across state lines for better insurance packages. McCain wanted to help make insurance better too, but he wanted to keep everyone's taxes the same and Obama wants to lower them.

Also, I know every president says they want to lower taxes, but I believe it to be true in Barack's case. He has said CLEARLY that if you make less thatn $250,000, you will pay lower taxes. That has been a huge selling point and one he will almost certainly be obligated to back up. I also think he's going to raise the economy stimulant checks to higher amounts. Maybe not as much as McCain wanted to since we'll be paying lower taxes, but we'll get more than the $600 most got back this past year.

And I truly believe he's going to do what Bush and the right so far seem reluctant to do, and that's set a timetable and goals for the Iraqi government so we can start reall pull-out of troops.

Whether these things will happen remains to be seen, but I truly believe that Obama cannot and will not fall short on those things.
 
no matter who we have as a president, rights willbe taken away, either gun rights or a woman's right to choose, we'll still have a struggling economy, and the war will still be nonsense.

both sides lie, at least the dems pretend to like us and act like we have something in common w/ them.

universal health care, an end to this 'war', and some answers and justice for those dealing w/ the shady mortgage companies would be ideal...but i don't reckon it'llhappen....

if u don't lik ewhat's going on now, then mccain ain't the answer cuz he voted the same as bush 90% of the time
 
Hey, I'd rather have any democrate than a republican. Because like you said Katie, it'll just stay exactly the same if McCain gets in, which I doubt he will. But they both suck, essentially, lol. Like arXter said, the lesser of two evils in the case of politics. I just wouldn't expect all that much "change" from Obama, seriously. Let's be realistic. Until people start to change the way they think, things won't shift hardly at all. And I always say its not politicians who can get people to change the way they see the world. They aren't that important or infulential in the big picture.
 
Well Whoopi said nto to expect too much change either because it could 50 years for the US to fix all the rubbish Bush got em into. I say she's right and I say Whoopi for president! :D

But I don't think there are many people voting for Obama just on the "Change" slogan anyway.
Same as I don't think there are many people voting for McCain because he's a maverick
 
John McCain. A Firecracker ready to go off.. NOT a good thing for the US.





Sarah Palin - a DISGRACE to all of us THINKING WOMEN!!
She makes DAN QUAYLE look like a TOWERING INTELLECTUAL. If you don't know who Dan Quayle is, I suggest you look for him on Youtube...



 
Well Whoopi said nto to expect too much change either because it could 50 years for the US to fix all the rubbish Bush got em into. I say she's right and I say Whoopi for president! :D

But I don't think there are many people voting for Obama just on the "Change" slogan anyway.
Same as I don't think there are many people voting for McCain because he's a maverick

Yeah, Whoopie for President! She's smarter then all of em'.
 
haha didn't he get called out? he said the us was fine at like 9 in th emorning and before noon the very same day said the us was in a crisis...look, dude runs my state so i think he's ok BUT he too damn old....if he dies, that crazy woman will be the prez...

and i wish obama chose someone else as his vp...cuz biden is boring
 
haha didn't he get called out? he said the us was fine at like 9 in th emorning and before noon the very same day said the us was in a crisis...look, dude runs my state so i think he's ok BUT he too damn old....if he dies, that crazy woman will be the prez...

and i wish obama chose someone else as his vp...cuz biden is boring

Actually, he's not boring. He may be appearing that way because he's trying really hard to tone things down and not make any gaffes. He's actually very charismatic and funny.







Also, John Kerry was a boring guy... shame he didn't get elected too.
 
Some new polls have come in from Rasmussen and other reputable sources, so here is a update on the national and state polls....

Obama currently has a 7 point lead in the polls on average. However, the US election is not a national vote. The votes are done state-wide. Each state holds a certain number of electoral votes. If a candidate wins a state, they win all of the electoral votes that state holds. Once a candidate surpasses 270 electoral votes cumulatively, they win the election. So more important than the national polls are the state polls.

Obama has gained some in the very important battleground state of Florida (which holds 27 electoral votes) and now holds a 5% lead over McCain. Obama also leads in the hotly-contested battleground state of Ohio (which holds 20 electoral votes) by 3 percentage points. Colorado remains close but Obama still leads by 4 percentage points on average. Missouri also favors Obama with the Democratic candidate holding on to a 3% lead over Republican opponent McCain. Missouri went to Bush in the last two elections. As did Nevada where Obama is currently leading by 3 percentage points on average.

Speaking of red states turned blue, Obama has a decent lead over McCain in Virginia. Leading by 6-7% in the state's polls. Virginia has voted Republican since 1968. This could be the first time in forty years that the state has voted for a Democratic candidate. Although not quite blue yet, other red states where McCain's numbers are dropping are West Virginia and Georgia. McCain holds a 2% lead over Obama in WV and a 6 percentage point lead in GA.

North Carolina, which hasn't voted for a Democratic candidate since Carter in 1976, is a tie according to most polls. It has alternated between Obama and McCain for the past few weeks. NC holds 15 electoral votes.

With the polls the way they are at the moment, Obama looks like winning well over 300 electoral votes. Much more than the 270 electoral votes needed to win the election. For McCain to win this election he will need to win, in addition to the states where he currently holds a firm lead, all the aforementioned states.
 
Virginia has voted Republican since 1968. This could be the first time in forty years that the state has voted for a Democratic candidate.

wow that's always interesting when a state changes... it shows you just how big things really are that people are moving out of the comfort zone, or that area has changed demographically
 
Thanks Bob George, I never knew about the States holding votes system before, now a few things make more sense to me. I'm an Australian, but have been so fascinated by this US election, and the system over there has been bewildering at times to say the least, especially how it is not compulsory to vote even! (it is the law you must vote here).

I'm enjoying this thread a lot, thanks to all who contribute!

ps- OBAMA/BIDEN '08 BABY! THERE IS NO OTHER REAL CHOICE!
 
and looks like the borrowing game is not just for the economics world.... with McCain borrowing Clinton's ideas for the financial crisis.


McCain talks economy with Hillary

On Sept. 24, Hillary Rodham Clinton received a surprise phone call from the man she’s often denounced as an economic know-nothing: John McCain.

This was no social call, even though Clinton likes McCain enough to keeps his photo on the wall of her Senate office. The GOP nominee had already chatted with Bill Clinton about the mortgage crisis and wanted to pick the senator’s brain about her new proposal to have the federal government buy up bad mortgages and renegotiate terms more favorable to homeowners on verge of default.

“McCain said he had been motivated by it, he was very complimentary about what she had proposed and wanted to know more,” said a person with knowledge of the call.

Clinton responded coolly. “She didn’t engage him, she just said, ‘Thank you’ and heard him out.”

Three weeks later, at the town hall debate in Nashville, Tenn., McCain rolled out a $300 billion anti-foreclosure plan that’s similar, if not identical, to Clinton’s — and subsequently credited the concept “to a suggestion that Sen. Hillary Clinton made not that long ago.”

Clinton dropped out of the race four months ago, but her presence looms large at tonight’s final McCain-Obama debate being held, appropriately enough, in her adopted state of New York.

Clinton was arguably the first candidate in either party to grasp the transformative political effect of the economic crisis, and her onetime rivals have been borrowing — liberally — from her policy and rhetorical playbooks.

“Everything in this election is being washed away by this stock market and economic stuff ... and she was the one who came out first with specific policies to deal with this, so she’s clearly having an influence on both of them,” said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.


“The reason why she’s so influential is because we never had a primary candidate who won 18 million votes,” said former Bill Clinton adviser Paul Begala, who likened the former first lady’s impact to that of third-party candidate Ross Perot in 1992.

Read more here
 
Back
Top