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US Presidential Election ... [All recent threads merged here]

wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I wish this stupid thing would end already so I can stop hearing about it, lol. Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has anything to worry about on that front. Then we'll see if he can live up to his hype.
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Would you rather see McCain and Palin live up to their hype? Or perhaps you like the race baiting that is going on right now....
 
mello1 said:
Would you rather see McCain and Palin live up to their hype? Or perhaps you like the race baiting that is going on right now....
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I don't know what you're talking about. I just don't see Obama as the savior that so many others see him as. His race means nothing to me, and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone else either. I think he'll make a fine President, I just don't think he's going to be some revolutionary or something radically different from any other democrat. He's a politician and says what needs to be said. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or is going to be shitty in office, it just means, in my view, that he isn't going to bring any sort of change that we haven't seen before. I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, which apparently you can't let go of, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. I don't even know what that statement of yours above is supposed to mean.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I don't know what the fu** you're talking about. I just don't see Obama as the savior that so many others see him as. His race means nothing to me, and it shouldn't mean anything to anyone else either. I think he'll make a fine President, I just don't think he's going to be some revolutionary or something radically different from any other democrat. He's a politician and says what needs to be said. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy or is going to be shitty in office, it just means, in my view, that he isn't going to bring any sort of change that we haven't seen before. I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn.
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Oh I think you do and your post makes no sense Nicole. And if you can't discuss things with me without thinking that I'm out to get you, then that's your problem.

The mere fact that any Democrat gets into the WH over virtally 20 years of a conservative philosophy that seeks to dumb down America by using wedge issues and class/social warfare to maintain power, IS change.

I don't know why Hillary supporters assume that people who support Obama view him as a messiah. He is SO NOT THAT.

Also, I don't insinuate. I say it. You can choose to reply to it or not. Or read more into what I say without explaining yourself or clarfiying or asking for a clarification.

That's up to you.
 
I'm not a "Hillary" supporter. I would have preferred her, simply because I like her more, but I don't actually support any politician or candidate. I'm not in to politics for the most part. Their stance was and is basically identical either way. And I'm fully aware that niether one is fully honest or is intending to keep their word on every issue. Obama has attained a sort of rock star image, for whatever reason, and people are desperate to get out of the current situation, so they're looking to him as someone who can flip everything overnight. And that's not going to happen. Like I said, I don't expect any sort of radical change from him. And NO, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you stop trying to be cute and just say what it is you mean. I have no ulterior motive with what I said. I mean just what's there. Every time you disagree with me, you come at me with that patronizing tone, as usual. It's so old its laughable. I don't know why you can't just ignore me. Because that's what I do with you. You can deny you don't have an issue with me all you want, but it's abudently clear that you do.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
He's a politician and says what needs to be said.
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you're right, he is way over-hyped but i think because of that it provides a lot of unnecessary cynicism against him (if you look at his policies and views, it's quite refreshing). i do agree a lot with his liberal/conservative mixture of stances on foreign policy and at least noticing the effect of lobbying and because of that i'd support his bid.

but as you hinted at, we're getting a follow-up to an American presidency and this job goes beyond one president's powers or ideals and we're already seeing the effect and pressures of others onto his stances and who knows how other people higher up in the chain will affect him - personnel we may not even know about. i'm no conspiracy theorist, but in such a secrative government, anything is possible.

but if you feel that way about Obama, i don't know how the hell you could get near even the mentioning of Hillary lol but that argument is hopefully dead and buried...
 
Obama and McCain's policies on war are very, very different. Obama wants a timetable and a plan of action to turn the Iraqi government over and to pull U.S. troops from Iraq, he wants more troops in Afghanistan and he wants to closely scrutinize and cut back on pumping money overseas on the war. McCain has not really said anything other than "we have to win" but has not made any concrete statements on how he plans to do that, he hasn't mentioned a timetable and basically has said he wants to cut spending but has done so under pressure more than because he really wants to.

I actually really like John McCain, but there's no way I'm voting to put a republican back in the white house, especially not after his VP choice.

Time will tell, but I have high hopes for Barack. Bill Clinton didn't have the movement Barack had, but he was facing an incumbent president and was seen as a young, charming guy and many doubted him, but the country had great prosperity under his term. The biggest story in his presidency was that he cheated on his wife. That speaks of how well things were going under his watch.

I think Barack will win (McCain's numbers are plummeting), but I am actually worried. As you know, our votes basically meant nothing in 2000 and the election was super-tight in 2004. Things seem to be going to smooth for something insane to not happen before or during election time. One jacked up state or some crazy voting controversy and who knows what will happen.
 
Well see, you understand what I mean. I'm not a supporter of Clinton, that was mischaracterized I think simply because I preferred her. And I only preferred her because Obama frankly rubs me the wrong way. Policy wise, they're both fine to me. Hillary isn't even the issue anymore, she's out of the picture. Obama just isn't going to be some miracal worker, is all I meant, and unfortunately, I think a lot of people are under the notion that he will be. When things don't start shifting radically or in a big way after a few months, I'm afraid people are going to be sorely dissapointed simply because of their own unrealistic expectations. I'm not critical of Obama because of his policies. I just think he's very slick and isn't going to be everything he's being hyped up to be, that's all. And that's ALL I meant by my statement. I wasn't trying to bait anybody or start any kind of argument. I was just saying, we'll see.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Obama just isn't going to be some mirical worker, is all I meant, and unfortunately, I think a lot of people are under the notion that he will be. When things don't start shifting radically or in a big way after a few months, I'm afraid people are going to be sorely dissapointed simply because of their own unrealistic expectations. I'm not critical of Obama because of his policies. I just think he's very slick and isn't going to be everything he's being hyped up to be, that's all.
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i agree with that, and i think part of the cause is that people look back at the last eight years and then hear all that rhetoric of "change, change; yes we can" and kind of hollywoodize it into massive expectations.

also, he's virtuallly preaching. and we know the effect that has on people lol
 
Yeah, exactly, lol. You see exactly what I meant. The word "change" keeps getting tossed around. You know, it's like that poem, "a rose, is a rose, is a rose..." lol. It's not that I don't think he'll be affective or do good things, but the way some people talk about him, it's like they expect the entire world to do a 180 degree turn from where it is now under him in office and that's just not going to happen. I don't think politics is the way to any kind of perminent, radical change period, lol. And yeah, Obama is very charasmatic and he does preach, which gets people stirred and riled up. He's a good performer, lol.
 
Well, it did a 180 under Bush's watch, lol.

Granted, pulling it out of the gutter is a lot easier than putting it in, but I'm not entirely sure people expect too much of Barack. I just think they're excited at the prosperity of at least SOME change. Let's get the price of gas back down, let's make healthcare less restrictive and cheaper, and let's give the Iraqis a timeline to get their government in control. I fully agree, it won't happen overnight and people hoping for that will be dissapointed, but I think if we start seeing change a little at a time, it will give people a lot of hope and faith.
 
i dont think ppl expect from obama to make radical changes and any kind of "revolution". they simply expect him to save the economy and go after the right ppl (terrorists) who are a threat to america and the rest of humanity and punish them for the indescribably horrible devilish crimes. they expect him to solve important domestic issues and make america stand on its feet again. i think obama is the right choice and hes the one who can and will do all that. i hope he gets elected and i'm positive he can make a great president for all americans. i think america desperately needs obama and i hope it gets him.
 
I can't tell you the number of people that are voting for Obama because hes black or Mccaine because he is white. I mean seriously thats all they have to say about it and they dont care about anything else.

Whats even sadder is I know these people and some are my friends. I've tried my best to encourage them to really look into each man then choose on that. Watch a debate or something no matter how boring it may be and you can pick up on something you agree on.

I'm mixed with black and white. So yeah, when I heard Obama was really in this thing of course I got excited. But that isn't the only reason I'm voting for him. I really wouldn't consider it a reason anymore because I cared enough to actually look into each man because I realized my judgment wasn't right.

I doubt theres anyone here like that but for the sake of it, if this applies to you, I encourage you to find other, better reasons. And if you know people like this encourage them.

Theres nothing wrong with being excited or supporting your race. But at the end of the day, when you do vote that should be the least of your concerns. And I also couldn't tell you the amount of people that say "Go Obama" or "Go Mccaine" and never bothered to register to vote. Thats whats really sad I guess.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I'm not a "Hillary" supporter. I would have preferred her, simply because I like her more, but I don't actually support any politician or candidate. I'm not in to politics for the most part. Their stance was and is basically identical either way. And I'm fully aware that niether one is fully honest or is intending to keep their word on every issue. Obama has attained a sort of rock star image, for whatever reason, and people are desperate to get out of the current situation, so they're looking to him as someone who can flip everything overnight. And that's not going to happen. Like I said, I don't expect any sort of radical change from him. And NO, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Why don't you stop trying to be cute and just say what it is you mean. I have no ulterior motive with what I said. I mean just what's there. Every time you disagree with me, you come at me with that patronizing tone, as usual. It's so old its laughable. I don't know why you can't just ignore me. Because that's what I do with you. You can deny you don't have an issue with me all you want, but it's abudently clear that you do.
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Then why are you even in this thread if politics is not of interest to you? Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me to comment on things that you clearly state that you aren't interested in.

And yes, Obama does attract large crowds. That's what happens when people in general are hungry for someone to do something to deal with this mess. Most reasoned people have already said, LONG before the primaries were settled that the damage that the Bush Administration has done would take 50 years to correct at best. So tell me something that I don't already know. I don't think people are that blind Nicole.

Also Nicole, I don't have to be cute. You mix up my responsibilities with moderating with my right to discuss matters on this forum with members -- even including you. But if you have such a beef with me personally, PM me and we can discuss it. And I thank you to move that aspect of the discussion off line.
 
I've tried that in the past mello, and last time I did, I recieved no response from you. You are being cute because you won't say what it is you meant by "perhaps you like the race bating thats going on right now". I don't know what that's supposed to mean and you won't say.

I'm mildly interested in this race, but politics doesn't take up a large chunk of my time of a daily basis. But I'm allowed to comment on this particular issue if I so desire. All I said was we'll see if he can live up to his hype, because in my view, people are overestimating what he'll be able to do, I could be wrong and if I am, I'll readily admit that, but until then, we'll see. That's all I meant, and you had to start in on me like you always do.

Bush messed things up, that's true superstition, but people also don't realize it was in part Clinton's idel hands in the previous term which set up some of what happened under Bush's watch.
 
Roxanne said:
they simply expect him to save the economy and go after the right ppl (terrorists) who are a threat to america and the rest of humanity and punish them for the indescribably horrible devilish crimes. they expect him to solve important domestic issues and make america stand on its feet again.
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those would be miracles in and of themselves. expecting that much of the next US president would be naive imo.

as i said quite some time ago here, it's like choosing the lesser of two evils because we're far from getting a candidate that is willing to even change a lot of the backward views that still exist among the masses - instead they give in to those people's notions and speak the words that'll get the candidate their votes. electing Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.
 
Right arXter, exactly. Of course I would much rather have Obama in office then McCain. McCain isn't going to help anything. But like you said, expecting all that from Obama is too much and as you also very intelligently pointed out, the real problem lies in the fact that people continue to have the same mind set and perceptions that they've had for a long, long time, backward thinking as you said. And the only way to real change, shifting the way the world works, is to change the way people think and see. I don't see that coming from any politician, especially not anytime soon. But of course I would rather see Obama in office. At least he'll try to start the process of improvement.
 
there's nothing wrong with preaching as long as it's not idle. I don't think its idle in Obama's case. Getting people riled up and excited about an IMPORTANT election and IMPORTANT issues I definitely don't see as a bad thing.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
At least he'll try to start the process of improvement.
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Well, that's the idea here.

I oon't know what kind of people you come in contact with, but anyone who thinks Obama will correct all of America's problems is oblivious to the circumstances surrounding this election. As J5master stated, there's nothing wrong with attracting large crowds and getting them excited about the voting process. America hasn't been in this kind of hole since the Great Depression. Obama's no golden token, but there's a reason why Obama's being hyped the way he is all around the world.
 
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It's just the general feeling I get from the way people talk about and support Obama. Not unrealistic. When people get desperate, they look to anyone and anywhere for the answers. I think people are forgetting that Obama is a politician, like any other, and while his policies are fine, he isn't really radically different or special from any other politician. I just get the feeling from people that they view him as such.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I've tried that in the past mello, and last time I did, I recieved no response from you. You are being cute because you won't say what it is you meant by "perhaps you like the race bating thats going on right now". I don't know what that's supposed to mean and you won't say.

I'm mildly interested in this race, but politics doesn't take up a large chunk of my time of a daily basis. But I'm allowed to comment on this particular issue if I so desire. All I said was we'll see if he can live up to his hype, because in my view, people are overestimating what he'll be able to do, I could be wrong and if I am, I'll readily admit that, but until then, we'll see. That's all I meant, and you had to start in on me like you always do.

Bush messed things up, that's true superstition, but people also don't realize it was in part Clinton's idel hands in the previous term which set up some of what happened under Bush's watch.
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I don't what you are referring to, but like I said before, if you got a beef with me, PM me. That part of this discussion on here ends now.

Also, if you had simply asked me what I meant, I would have been more than happy to tell you instead of what you've been saying. Now are you asking me or what? Let me know.

And while Clinton [Bill, that is], did things on his watch that I didn't agree with, messing up the economy was not one of them.
 
arXter said:
those would be miracles in and of themselves. expecting that much of the next US president would be naive imo.

as i said quite some time ago here, it's like choosing the lesser of two evils because we're far from getting a candidate that is willing to even change a lot of the backward views that still exist among the masses - instead they give in to those people's notions and speak the words that'll get the candidate their votes. electing Bush for a second term doesn't quite show the best standard of public intelllect.
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I agree with this arxter (but not necessarily the 'lesser evils' part). The market forces cannot be fixed with a govt solution now. It has to play itself out unfortunately until it stabilizes. The bail out package was never going to stop the inevitable, but it doesn't help when Congressmen were coerced into going along with this bill the second time around, lest federal marital law would be enacted.

The problem with 'electing Bush the second time', is that he wasn't really elected in 2000 and there is now clear evidence that Ohio was sufficiently tampered with to affect the 2004 outcome. Voting reliability is still a huge problem here and people still fail to comprehend the problems. The best thing we've done was to start early voting and people are voting early in droves as to avoid waiting until Nov. 4th and discover that they have been illegally thrown off the voting rolls and there is nothing they can do about it.

Lastly, a lot of Republicans are truly disgusted with their own party and how it's been commandeered by fringe elements. I point you to this ed opt piece by David Brooks that is very revealing:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/10brooks.html

You can also read some of the enomous comments this piece generated. While I don't agree with some of the statements he made, particularly the one about Palin, I do agree with the overall sentiment that the GOP has reduced itself to social warfare issues, while demonizing any analytical thought.

I think people have now seen the consequences of their collective uninvolvement when you allow such fringe factors to rule the day.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Did I say he messed up the economy? I asked in my initial response to you and you've failed to answer.
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No, you didn't ask Nicole.

I don't like at all what you're insinuating with me. You obviously have an issue with me, which apparently you can't let go of, you always have, and frankly, I don't give a damn anymore. I don't even know what that statement of yours above is supposed to mean.
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That is what you said. But since you just won't say, 'Hey Mello1, what did you mean by that?', I will tell you anyway:

What I meant Nicole is that based on what we have to choose from: McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden, the time for lamenting Obama's 'rockstar' status or whether is he selling more than he can deliver is irrelevent. The McCain/Palin ticket is simply unacceptable because they are resorting to fearmonging tactics that can get someone killed. It is illegal to even joke about assassinating a Presidental candidate or the President of the United States. By McCain and especially Palin not moving to immediately state unequivocally that talk like that is illegal and will not be tolerated, they have tacitly stroke the flames of fringes beyond the fringe who think that it is the green light to do something tragic.

That is what I meant and if you just had simply asked me without all of the drama about what I 'do to you', you would have save yourself unnecessary anguish.
 
I couldn't have been more direct, mello, when I said, in my first sentence, which you've convinently left out, "What the fu*k are you talking about?" I asked you pretty direct.

And I still have no idea what you've said above has to do with what I said. All I stated was that Obama is being over hyped and I doubt he can live up to it. It was a simple statement which said nothing more then it appeared to. You could have saved yourself a lot of unneeded anguish if you had just simply said "I don't think it's important as to whether Obama can live up to his hype given the alternative", but instead you tried to be clever and patronizing.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
I couldn't have been more direct, mello, when I said, in my first sentence, which you've convinently left out, "What the fu*k are you talking about?" I asked you pretty direct.

And I still have no idea what you've said above has to do with what I said. All I stated was that Obama is being over hyped and I doubt he can live up to it. It was a simple statement which said nothing more then it appeared to. You could have saved yourself a lot of unneeded anguish if you had just simply said "I don't think it's important as to whether Obama can live up to his hype given the alternative", but instead you tried to be clever and patronizing.
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That's not asking Nicole. And since I cannot be more clear, then there is nothing more I can do to explain it to you.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Yeah, that's asking. It's just very blunt, because you pissed me off.
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No, it was being disrespectful and you don't get far by doing that. Now this is the last time I'm going to say this to you and please do not respond. If you want to discuss personal matters with me, please do so via PM.

Thank you.
 
lol, hystarical. Anyway, like I said, Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has to worry about that. Unless our good ol' electoral college fails us once again. Gotta love the US voting system.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
lol, hystarical. Anyway, like I said, Obama is going to win, I don't think anyone has to worry about that. Unless our good ol' electoral college fails us once again. Gotta love the US voting system.
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In my personal opinion that wouldn't be to America's advantage. McCain may not be the best choice but I don't believe Obama has any idea of what the hell he's doing. He's a yes man with celebrity status and that makes him as dangerous as McCain.
 
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