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Today Show Recordings of Michael- Fearful of Dr. Thome

benscarr said:
How come Frank Dileo laughed of the question of Michael being controlled, and saying that no one was controlling Michael on the his interview with Larry King on CNN. And now he's saying that Michael was scared of Dr. Tohme Tohme who was controlling his finances and not letting Michael talk to his lawyers etc.
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EXACTLY!
Dileo is covering his a** right now
 
This pisses me off so much guys!

It just feels like Michael was constantly struggling, all these executives and these businessman and managers, accountants and financers, this huge army of people trying to fuck him over, lying cheating and stealing.

It feels like he was constantly struggling against them guys, all this shit forced upon him and forced into his life and he was doing his best to get rid of them because they were FUCKING UP HIS LIFE and making things worse.

He was fighting them until the day he died :(
 
Oceangirl said:
there is no prove that the money generated from the tribute is going to a charity .
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Jermaine has been involved in charities before and still is, I dont know how much will be donated to charity, I believe some of it will be donated to charities. I dont believe all of it will go to charity, In most case it never do.
 
very funny cuz on lkl frankie boi said mj wasn't scurred of noone...so did he think of a new story while in the tanning booth?
 
Yeah, it seems that Frank talked too much and everything he said he wanted to make it seems as if things were hunky-dorey. Michael felt uneasy, you could tell. The man was good at making business dicisions but when the wrong people got in his life, they could bully him around. He got this when he was younger, I don't he ever really felt he could stand up to some. The man felt controlled and prob. feared...period.
 
jrsfan said:
Joe Jackson has been trying to get something investigated by the media on Thome for awhile now. He's talked to Geraldo as Geraldo said so on Bill O'Reilly's show. On LKL he talked about Thome:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/20/lkl.01.html

JACKSON: Of course I do. I want to find out all I can about his situation there with certain people. For instance, Dr. Thome...

KING: All right.

JACKSON: Dr. Thome, he's no doctor. And he was fired by Michael and this is a terrible guy, he got about nine -- eight or nine different aliases.

Joe's interview was on the 20th & Thome returned the money on the 24th according to TMZ. Kind of a coincidence.

My guess when he took the phone call, someone from the family was reminding him to mention Thome as one of his talking points. I really can't figure out why noone in the media, esp. CNN since Joe gave it to them, has done any real investigating on Thome. In this story it seems as though Dileo gave it to them, probably handed over the paperwork, contacted the spiritual adviser for them. I would agree Dileo is doing this as a diversion. I think he works for Branca because in LKL interview he says 'our attorneys'.

I am certain one of the first thing Joe & Katherine did was hire private investigators.



As far as Jermaine goes with Thome, I think he just got fooled. Thome is expert at fooling people (that's why there were all those lawsuits) & Jermaine like MJ is easy to fool. Scam artists really know what they are doing. Also, it was reported not just Jermaine liked the idea of Neverland - I think initially Joe & some brothers too - but I think the ladies of the family won - Latoya was really against it publicly & we don't really know about Janet & Rebbie.
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A more balanced perspective that I agree with.
I don't like folks insinuating that Jermaine had it in for Michael & set him up. He could be just as fooled as Michael was. Maybe he's taking his wife's word for Tohme's character.

But I can't discount the fans' accounts of Tohme from personal experiences.

The full facts ain't out yet. We're just gonna have to trace everything to the timeline. Who introduced who when & do some educated speculation on motives of actions.

I don't know if I trust anybody around Michael right now. But I also can't just dismiss them offhand like that. The timeline will settle it all.
John Lucas
 
ExoticPrincess said:
Fishy, fishy, fishy!

Trust nobody right now!

Remember the whole debacle with the auction earlier this year? how ridiculous was that? Tohme signing off on the auctioning of MJ's stuff when MJ apparently had no idea he had made that move, hence MJ cancelling the auction and trying to get his stuff back!

I just keep wondering why in God's name did MJ find it so easy to hand over Power Of Attorney to people? he's quoted on that tape saying he has no idea whats in his accounts, why?
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The bigger money you make, the harder it is to keep track of it all. You can't keep all this stuff in your wallet & so you have to have money managers. This explains how Michael keeps getting sued over payment issues. The people entrusted to handle his money weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing.

I always thought that was weird Michael selling off his stuff like that. You don't give stuff like that away all willy-nilly.
I don't trust Frank DiLeo nor do I trust Tohme at this point.

I'm neutral & cautious against all parties until I get further facts.
John Lucas
 
Yeah, I agree John. I can't see Jermaine putting his brother in peril like that. He prob. was just as convinced bout this guy, Thome prob. suger-talked them both.

So, Jermaine's present wife, was once married to Thome? I think this is what I heard. Soo confusing....all these people connected and not in a nice way at times...
 
benscarr said:
How come Frank Dileo laughed of the question of Michael being controlled, and saying that no one was controlling Michael on the his interview with Larry King on CNN. And now he's saying that Michael was scared of Dr. Tohme Tohme who was controlling his finances and not letting Michael talk to his lawyers etc.
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EXACTLY! Weren't people talking about how Frank was saying that Michael's ego needed to be stroked before you could get him to do anything? :no:
 
myfavouritewintercoat said:
Is Jermaine still associated with Tohme does anyone know? What worries me if this is true is Tohme's links to Colony Capital(who own most of Neverland) and Philip Anschutz, owner of AEG. If you haven't already read this article I posted in this thread:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72708 (or link to article which was printed before Michael died in the LA Times here - http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-et-michael-jackson31-2009may31,0,1441957.story?page=1)
It made me think after reading that and knowing of all their links 'were they planning on opening Neverland like Graceland and is that why Jermaine(friend of Tohme) was pushing for a burial there as it would bring more profit. I mean if this clip of Michael talking is true then WHY was Tohme at the hospital with Jermaine when Michael died when he'd been fired...?!
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I dont think Jermain get any profit from MJ's Neverland if it becomes like Graceland.why he should do that,He receive nothing from profit or lost of MJ's estate and by the way bceouse Dr thome was there ,itdoesnt mean he was with Jermain.You will introduce the people that you think are good at their job to your friends or family but this you who make the decison not the one who recommend some one to you. So it was MJ's decison not Jermain and I dont think Jermain wanted to hurt his brother.He wanted to help him,Jermain didnt know that Thome thome is a snake.
 
blueocean said:
Jermaine has been involved in charities before and still is, I dont know how much will be donated to charity, I believe some of it will be donated to charities. I dont believe all of it will go to charity, In most case it never do.
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Katherin supporte the chariety concert in vienna so we should trust them.
 
Michael's finances ultimately led to June 25. He would not have met Thome If he was financialy unstable and he signed up for 50 shows when he really didn't want to do them. The article in the LA times, had all those suits using Michael's financial state to threaten him to do the shows. It was all about the money or lack thereof. The fact that MJ's estate is solvent proves that he's financial situation could have been handled properly had he had people who had his best interest in his corner. Rest in peace my brother, Thome will get his day.
 
Okay, I'm just seeing this thread. I was immediately sucked into and stuck in the other breaking news thread but I gotta say I'm not surprised by any of this, IF true. I know a lot of ppl are going after AEG but I've had a sneaking suspicion that Colony was the one to watch. That statement from Barak about not being into boys or girls or drugs was a WTF moment if I ever read one...and coming from someone Michael had a shared interest with was just gross! I remember having a debate on here with someone about Tohme before and I said the reason he was probably still around Michael after the auction debacle was possibly becuz he came with the Colony deal and maybe Michael couldn't get rid of him. No confirmation on that but eventually he was fired but it STILL seems like Michael could not get rid of this guy. The whole issue with Julien's not knowing who to give Michael's stuff to afterwards was suspect. He just wouldn't go away. Couldn't believe it when the footage of him at the hospital was shown.

And that interview he gave after MJ's death where he was still claiming to be in charge.... :blink: Lawd!! I'm sure it will all come out when ppl start trying to cover their arses. We're going to hear lies, truths, half-truths, you name it. It's not like Michael is here to dispute or refute anything. grrrrr
 
benscarr said:
How come Frank Dileo laughed of the question of Michael being controlled, and saying that no one was controlling Michael on the his interview with Larry King on CNN. And now he's saying that Michael was scared of Dr. Tohme Tohme who was controlling his finances and not letting Michael talk to his lawyers etc.

Joesph Jackson isn't very articulate, and Leonard Rowe looked like he was trying to force his way in to being Michael's manager for his own financial reasons. But both Joesph and Leonard Rowe appear to be making a lot of sense about Michael being controlled with who he could and couldn't see now etc now Dr. Tohme Tohme's name has been bought up.
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Good point. But I think at the point Colony came in the picture (and this may have already been stated in here) Michael may have been vulnerable to the place of doing whatever someone wanted him to do in order to get him out of that mess, including turning over his entire financial life to these ppl in order to fix things. The thing is once Michael probably got stronger, Colony may have sensed they could no longer control him, hence the emotional abuse. We can see some of that abuse in the article from the L.A. Times where Barak is almost reminding Michael that he OWES him...or should feel indebted to him. However, he stated it in a way to suggest he hoped Michael would remember those who helped him once he was riding high again. That's an emotional threat, imo.

At the same time I have a problem with these "MJ was being controlled" stories to some degree as well. Why? Becuz Michael was obviously able to reach out and talk to this woman, the spiritual adviser, if this is to be believed. If he could talk to her, he could have reached out to whoever else he wanted to, right? Maybe sometimes Michael had his reasons for allowing ppl to take over his life to an extent. Only he would know why...altho Imma guess he put up with things until he felt he didn't have to anymore. Of course, by then, sometimes it was too late and damage had been done. :(
 
benscarr said:
How come Frank Dileo laughed of the question of Michael being controlled, and saying that no one was controlling Michael on the his interview with Larry King on CNN. And now he's saying that Michael was scared of Dr. Tohme Tohme who was controlling his finances and not letting Michael talk to his lawyers etc.
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Good point...!
 
wendy2004 said:
Good point. But I think at the point Colony came in the picture (and this may have already been stated in here) Michael may have been vulnerable to the place of doing whatever someone wanted him to do in order to get him out of that mess, including turning over his entire financial life to these ppl in order to fix things. The thing is once Michael probably got stronger, Colony may have sensed they could no longer control him, hence the emotional abuse. We can see some of that abuse in the article from the L.A. Times where Barak is almost reminding Michael that he OWES him...or should feel indebted to him. However, he stated it in a way to suggest he hoped Michael would remember those who helped him once he was riding high again. That's an emotional threat, imo.

At the same time I have a problem with these "MJ was being controlled" stories to some degree as well. Why? Becuz Michael was obviously able to reach out and talk to this woman, the spiritual adviser, if this is to be believed. If he could talk to her, he could have reached out to whoever else he wanted to, right? Maybe sometimes Michael had his reasons for allowing ppl to take over his life to an extent. Only he would know why...altho Imma guess he put up with things until he felt he didn't have to anymore. Of course, by then, sometimes it was too late and damage had been done. :(
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Another good point..
 
wendy2004 said:
Good point. But I think at the point Colony came in the picture (and this may have already been stated in here) Michael may have been vulnerable to the place of doing whatever someone wanted him to do in order to get him out of that mess, including turning over his entire financial life to these ppl in order to fix things. The thing is once Michael probably got stronger, Colony may have sensed they could no longer control him, hence the emotional abuse. We can see some of that abuse in the article from the L.A. Times where Barak is almost reminding Michael that he OWES him...or should feel indebted to him. However, he stated it in a way to suggest he hoped Michael would remember those who helped him once he was riding high again. That's an emotional threat, imo.

At the same time I have a problem with these "MJ was being controlled" stories to some degree as well. Why? Becuz Michael was obviously able to reach out and talk to this woman, the spiritual adviser, if this is to be believed. If he could talk to her, he could have reached out to whoever else he wanted to, right? Maybe sometimes Michael had his reasons for allowing ppl to take over his life to an extent. Only he would know why...altho Imma guess he put up with things until he felt he didn't have to anymore. Of course, by then, sometimes it was too late and damage had been done. :(
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Agreed 100%. My best guess it's most likely his demeanor and his character more than anything. I don't think he was being controlled by force, threats, etc... history makes it look like he had trouble putting his foot down with some people. The only time I've ever seen him really lashing out was at Sony. Maybe he took his art to heart more than he did his personal affairs. He had people pulling him in a million directions and it seemed like getting things in order was always an ordeal for him. Shame he had to have such a wide network of people handling things for him.

That's just my opinion, but who really knows.
 
wendy2004 said:
Good point. But I think at the point Colony came in the picture (and this may have already been stated in here) Michael may have been vulnerable to the place of doing whatever someone wanted him to do in order to get him out of that mess, including turning over his entire financial life to these ppl in order to fix things. The thing is once Michael probably got stronger, Colony may have sensed they could no longer control him, hence the emotional abuse. We can see some of that abuse in the article from the L.A. Times where Barak is almost reminding Michael that he OWES him...or should feel indebted to him. However, he stated it in a way to suggest he hoped Michael would remember those who helped him once he was riding high again. That's an emotional threat, imo.

At the same time I have a problem with these "MJ was being controlled" stories to some degree as well. Why? Becuz Michael was obviously able to reach out and talk to this woman, the spiritual adviser, if this is to be believed. If he could talk to her, he could have reached out to whoever else he wanted to, right? Maybe sometimes Michael had his reasons for allowing ppl to take over his life to an extent. Only he would know why...altho Imma guess he put up with things until he felt he didn't have to anymore. Of course, by then, sometimes it was too late and damage had been done. :(
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Plausible view on both points. You pointed out he may have become vulnerable and that made me picture him getting extremely tired after the trial and everything else he went through and wanting to get any mess fixed as quickly as possible. Who else wouldn't feel that way? I mean, with that level of power he had, all these shady people were around him AND with all the stress from all the things he went through, he may have reached exhausting state...which makes him even more vulnerable to seeking out whatever is needed to fix the problem quickly and move on...

And I agree on the way you think they were emotionally abusive. These guys can turn into some ugly gangsta even though they would never call themselves that.
 
Michael should never have parted ways with Branca in 1990. Since that time there has been a revolving door of advisers. accountants etc. By bringing him back into the fold, he admitted his mistake. The jury is still out on Tohme. Supposedly he did return the $5.5 million.
 
I'm 100% behind everyone who feels this is just a Diversion on Franks' Part.

Dr. Tohme, is a very shady dude, I'm with Victoria on this. I immediately became suspicious of him when we first got pics of MJ and him going to and from a meeting at one of those fancy hotels in L.A., the body language spoke volumes. Michael seemed uncomfortable and submissive around him. His personality or what I know of it seemed to all but shrink in the presence of Tohme during those pics( meetings).

I Guess Frank want us to forget how the fans from rehearsals went to him ( and karen) after seeing Michael and out of concern wanted him to do something and his repsonse was "hold off", then days later our Michael was gone from us forever.
 
wendy2004 said:
Good point. But I think at the point Colony came in the picture (and this may have already been stated in here) Michael may have been vulnerable to the place of doing whatever someone wanted him to do in order to get him out of that mess, including turning over his entire financial life to these ppl in order to fix things. The thing is once Michael probably got stronger, Colony may have sensed they could no longer control him, hence the emotional abuse. We can see some of that abuse in the article from the L.A. Times where Barak is almost reminding Michael that he OWES him...or should feel indebted to him. However, he stated it in a way to suggest he hoped Michael would remember those who helped him once he was riding high again. That's an emotional threat, imo.

At the same time I have a problem with these "MJ was being controlled" stories to some degree as well. Why? Becuz Michael was obviously able to reach out and talk to this woman, the spiritual adviser, if this is to be believed. If he could talk to her, he could have reached out to whoever else he wanted to, right? Maybe sometimes Michael had his reasons for allowing ppl to take over his life to an extent. Only he would know why...altho Imma guess he put up with things until he felt he didn't have to anymore. Of course, by then, sometimes it was too late and damage had been done. :(
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I love it when people take a balanced view.
Michael wasn't no puppet. But he was deluded & fooled by people who wormed their way into his circle. He put trust in people & those people in order to control Michael (& his money) put up walls between people who would look out for him & sew so much discord & confusion that he wouldn't know who to trust or who not to trust.

This is how his family sometimes couldn't get in contact with him. We forget that Michael didn't stay at a cozy residence. He lived in places that were very big & you couldn't see with your eye in total.

What Michael SHOULD have done was to get some private family phone & used it as a lifeline in case something went wrong. Maybe he did & someone stole his number hijacking his phone.
I always felt that the further Michael got away from his family the worse off he would be. Sure, some members did him wrong in the past but ultimately those are the people who got his back.

And I also believe that sometimes that distance was also by Michael's command. Like anytime, sometimes you don't want to be bothered by your family & its drama.

Some of the fans here have the same controlling attitude toward Michael as the manipulators in his circle. And it's out of a different place & intent but still leads to the same path. They want to wall him off from people they don't think will benefit them. And sometimes that includes family. They want to keep him all to themselves.

That's why I would advise fans to watch it when they start jumping on Jermaine & insinuating some foul deeds on his end. Word To The Badd was so long ago & some of that was caused because Jermaine couldn't get in contact with Michael. A common thread as we can plainly see here. They coulda worked out their beef but there was no contact.

I remember a 1993 ABC PrimeTime Live interview with most of the Jackson family & Rebbie mentioning not speaking to Michael for over a year. And not REALLY speaking deeply with Michael since their grandma's funeral in 1989. She said Michael's really busy.

One reason I can trust Michael is because throughout the years there were so many constants. You saw common behaviors no matter what era. And the barrier that would sometimes creep up between him & his family is one of them (it's even mentioned in the Jacksons miniseries).

The question is who's ultimately responsible for that barrier. I believe it's mostly manipulators in his circle with occassional permission from Michael when he didn't want to deal with his family for whatever reason.
He & the family did have contact. This past May for instance. But there were real walls there & that's one thing we have to figure out.

It could be that dismissing Joe as his manager way back when was not so much the best move at least when it came to keeping confusion out of the ranks with relations with his family. So many strangers Michael had to take a chance on. Some may have done him right, others done him wrong. And Joe didn't always make the best decisions but Michael didn't have to worry about him stealing from him or double-crossing him.

I bet you if I were to interview Joe, he would say the same thing. "Michael should have let me manage him."
John Lucas
 
What a sad day it is today. Two months since Michael passed away.
This is all so shocking to read. I din't know much about this Tohme guy,
I knew about the may 5th letter. I feel really really sad, and confused.
Michael should have never taken advice from Jermaine about Tohme.
I have never trusted Jermaine en never will. I don't trust him anymore since
I heard 'word to the badd' in 1991 I think it was. And now it's too late.
God I wish I could have done something to help Michael.
He was surrounded by such awfull people. I feel sick now.
Thank you all for the information, we have to get the truth out.
May dr Murray en 'dr' Tohme be in prison soon.. and stay there fore as long as I live.
Love you Michael.
 
I just want everything to be over so we can celebarte Michael's life properly. :(
Everyday there seems to be new information that just makes things all the more complicated. At the end of the day Money is the instigator of everything. Tohme, Murray - they don't care about right or wrong cause at the end of the day they still get paid.
This is what the world has come to :( Money's controlling everyones mind.
 
johnlucas.. i take your points

but lets not forget all paths here seem to lead back to Jermaine

Thome Thome, Colony Capital, Barakk, Nation of Islam.... AEG .. the link in all this is JERMAINE

why were Nation of Islam worming their way in everywhere???? why was Jermaine pushing for Neverland Burial ?? maybe cos his mates at colony capital part own it?? Whys Jermaine ringing up the Lester family saying Mjs kids are being isolated??#

Anyway.. i hope todays Leaked info doesnt mean this Thome info is ignore.. idnt it a strange coincidence that it was leaked just after this went out?

And no.. Dileo isnt off the hook. he's still not being HONEST about the state of MJs health
 
I have doubts these recordings are even real. Sounds too high to be Michael like someone is trying to be Michael. Maybe even a female. I still think its fake.
 
I still want to know why Nation of Islam were Michael's bodyguard? They did not certainly helped him on 25th June? Why was Tomhe at the hospital when he was obviously fired..Who called him and why? Dileo is full of lies and sh** by trying to cover up he is messing up. Why did Jermaine want Michael buried at Never Land? who will be getting monetary gain when the tribute to Michael happens in Austria?
Michael was too soft spoken he should cuss and kick butt, then people would of stop badgering or trying to control him. He was too trusting..Maybe Tomhe has a hit man out for Dileo and the Spiritual woman..
Those around him were fired then hired and the circus continued even now..eventually they will trip over themselves. It is like the Wild wild west!!
I still cannot get my head around this..That Murray did not know the address of the Carolwood residence..
'Who are to Guard the Guards?'
 
If all this is true (and that audio recording sounds real) ...i hate to say this, because i hate the dude ALOT. But it would mean Halperin WAS right about this, we all ridiculed him and his ridiculous stories...and i bet alot of that was nonsense, but he got this right. IF this is true...which certainly starts to seem so.
 
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