To mods: Will the authenticity deniers continue to be allowed to disrupt all threads?

[PCR]

exactly, it was heartbreaking, the way some 'believers' are making out we enjoy this is pathetic and very immature. It's like going against you own morals to support those particular tracks and who wants to do that. Some non believers are also way out of line with their comments.

Yes.
We all are free to disagree, but please, let's do it in a more civilized way.
In the end, it is all about Michael Jackson's music! That's all!

 

[Kikuchiyo]

we have all been happily discussing michaels music for years now. As soon as some questionable tracks appear, the CONNECTED community starts to break, hmmm.... i'll say no more.

I would say that's very perfidious way to explain that something is wrong with Cascio tracks or that Michael isn't on Cascio tracks. :smilerolleyes:

Fact is Michael's music doesn't connect all the people (around the world).
Michael's music/voice/dance is magical because he sings/dance with such an intense passion, with heart and soul so through his singing/music/dance he can affect listener/spectator. Generally, music has special power to bring people together, to change, to calm down, to cheer, to manipulate, to control us etc. but at the end each listener is attached to their own particular subjective experience. We don't feel every song in the same way and we don't like same songs equally. Of course when people share mutual feelings and interests then they can feel connection with others.
You obviously don't like "Breaking News" (or you don't hear Michael in it) but many people here love that song and they feel very connected.

Regarding believers and non-believers the biggest problem is there is only one truth so at the end one side is wrong.
Legally speaking Michael Jackson is on Cascio tracks.

 

[love is magical]

Same here.

I mean... sorry, "believers" (I can't believe we are using labels :no, do you think we really enjoy at all having doubts about this album?

How selfish from you, guys!!!! How selfish!!!!
Some of you must know I was there, almost every single day in the "Next album" thread, waiting for updates, waiting patiently. I was hating all the rumors about any "fake" tracks, I was there saying all the time that I didn't give a damn about rumors, for I just know for sure as soon as I heard the first line of the song... The day they released BN I SPENT THE NIGHT WAITING FOR IT!! It was 5 AM when it came....

... how do you think I felt? Do you think I jump out of joy and said "I knew, I knew it was not him!!!"?"

Sorry but... IT BROKE MY HEART!!! So many of you loooooveee so much saying you love Michael and loooveee saying "start with the man in the mirrow" and "heal the world" and "we are here for each other, we are family" and always "with L.O.V.E.".... why on earth for just one minute try to put in the place of us having doubts? We are not happy having doubts, guys. It hurts!!!

Again: we should not insult ANYONE if that person doesn't agree with us, whatever we think about those tracks.

Thank you! Exactly how I felt at 12:10 am Monday, November 8. Heartbroken, confused, frustrated... It's not a good feeling.

Thanks again for speaking my mind.

 

[kopwatcher]

I think we've all had our say to death now. I think the doubters are slowly coming to terms with the fact the album isn't going to change, so all we can do is do what we feel is right. Let's just concentrate on the other tracks we haven't heard yet.

 

[PCR]

Thank you! Exactly how I felt at 12:10 am Monday, November 8. Heartbroken, confused, frustrated... It's not a good feeling.

Thanks again for speaking my mind.

Thanks to you! :hug:
You usually speak my mind too.

This is no easy, guys, I tell you, it's terrible! I have been waiting for this album soooo long, just as you all, please.

 

[butterflies]

Yeah, long time no see

All MJ fans should be united again without calling names to each other just because some people have diffrent opinions, it's their right to express their different opinion either some people like it or not.

Yes, everyone does have a right to an opinion, but some people feel the need to go in every single thread and post negative comments. It really does bring everyone else down and makes it impossible to feel excited or happy about anything. It isn't censorship when you own a forum, and you have rules. Just like there are threads for talking about non-MJ related topics and all the others. You are supposed to post in the right folder, or it will be moved. That isn't censorship. If people just think the album is fake, they hate Sony and won't buy the album, then they can have their own little section to go and discuss that. I don't see anything wrong with it.

 

[butterflies]

I'd be happy if I'd be delegated to another place and I'll stay in my happy corner and won't go out, because I can't see the word "fake" anymore. It makes me literally sick. So the sub-forum doesn't have to be for anti-Cascio songs people. I'd be totally okay with a sub-forum for pro-Cascio songs people. I just really need a calm quiet place to wait for the album and to discuss it. Because now it's all over the forum. Even in the threads that are not about these songs. You go to the Blue Gangsta thread and read "wow, this is real MJ, and those songs are fake", then you go to the TV promo thread and you read "wow, what a nice promo, but sadly the songs are fake" etc Some people are enjoying it so much that they repeat the fake talk over and over just to say the word "fake" one more time. One poster even re-wrote the chorus of Bad to the tune of "fake". At some point it just becomes too much.

I am a peaceful person. And I don't want to argue with people. When I come to this board, I am not looking for an argument. I am looking for a civil and friendly discussion with people who are supposed to be one big global MJ fan family. I have enough arguments outside the fandom, I don't need it here, especially since for me as a fan the blissfully happy time was over when Michael passed and there are very few chances for joy now. This album for me is one of these few chances. I know I won't be able to enjoy it like I enjoyed HIStory, or BOTD, or Invincible, but whatever amount of joy I can get out of this, I want. And it's being ruined every day

I believe the root of all this is fans who dont see the BIG picture
Sony is in the business to make money. All record companies are.
They are a business. That is thier main purpose. They promote distibute
and sell the artist work. They dont make the Magic

Its Michaels music that will connect the world and it will
regarless of 3 questionable tracks that fans argue over
We should Just Allow Michael's music do what it is suppose to do. :wub:

As usual, a great, reasoned post from JMie.

I would also be happy to go to a corner, with all the 'positive' MJ fans, and not have to listen to the same comments from the 'FAKE!' 'fans' over and over again.

I wouldn't mind but it's so bloody repetative;

Posi fan 1 - "I love the new advert for the upcoming album!"

Negi fan - "Yes. But the vocals are 'FAKE!"

Posi fan 2 - "I love the advert as well, the way the new album cover comes alive!"

Negi fan - "Yes, But the voclas are 'FAKE'!"

Posi fan 3 - "I hope we get to see the advert in our country!"

Negi fan - "But the vocals are FAKE!"


The problem is, this is a forum to discuss an artist and his latest album. Once you have said "It is fake and I'm not going to buy it", what else is there for you to contribute? Nothing! Just repeating the same thing, but in a slightly different way each time, adds absolutely nothing to a discussion.

Surely if you are not going to buy the album, you go to the threads regarding the album, you say "I'm not buying it because it's fake!", and then off you go? Why keep coming back to repeat the same thing?

Leave the rest of us to discuss the 'detail' of what you have decided not to buy.

I agree with all of this completely.

 

[SmoothCollins]

I'm finding this thread interesting because it's bringing out people from both sides talking about being respectful and just accepting other peoples opinions (in a good way) - and then out of the woodwork comes one random person every now and then to disrupt the thread with some rude disrespectful remark.

I think that shows that the majority of us actually ARE respectful, from both sides, it's just these random people who don't post here very often come along and start calling names, and then we get riled up thinking that everyone from an opposing viewpoint is causing the problem.

Maybe if we just ignore them, kind of like you would do if a child is misbehaving for attention, they'll stop trying to cause problems. Or just acknowledge them, and let them know that even if you're of the same or different opinion, they can do it in a respectful way.

 

[butterflies]

I'm finding this thread interesting because it's bringing out people from both sides talking about being respectful and just accepting other peoples opinions (in a good way) - and then out of the woodwork comes one random person every now and then to disrupt the thread with some rude disrespectful remark.

I think that shows that the majority of us actually ARE respectful, from both sides, it's just these random people who don't post here very often come along and start calling names, and then we get riled up thinking that everyone from an opposing viewpoint is causing the problem.

Maybe if we just ignore them, kind of like you would do if a child is misbehaving for attention, they'll stop trying to cause problems. Or just acknowledge them, and let them know that even if you're of the same or different opinion, they can do it in a respectful way.

You have a good point, but sometimes it's the smaller group who is the loudest and demanding attention. I just think that if we are discussing a song like "Hold My Hand", there shouldn't be any discussion in that thread about the Cascio songs. It isn't about those. Maybe if we just try harder to stick with the actual topic, then everything won't turn into an argument. Obviously from all the posts here, there are a lot of people who have been upset by all of this.

 

[SmoothCollins]

^^ yeah I agree with you, butterflies. They shouldn't be doing that. I'm really starting to realize that it's not one group or the other that's causing all the issues. It's that loud minority from both sides that won't let it go.

I think the majority, from people who are bothered by the tracks to people who love the tracks, have accepted it and mostly just agree to disagree.

For me, even though I don't support the 3 tracks, I love seeing other people get happy about the album and I obviously don't start disrupting or picking on people because it's not that big of deal to me. There are countless other members who are just like me on that. It's just the disrespectful few from both sides of the opinion who are doing it.

It bothers me just as much when I see someone being rude in a thread (from saying "you're not a fan" to "it's fake, you're wrong"), no matter which opinion they have.

I firmly believe that both sides are bothered by anyone of ANY opinion who's being disrespectful or blatantly off topic in threads. They are just the loud vocal minority who won't quit. We have several examples in this thread itself from both sides of the opinion.

 

[kottur13]

You have a good point, but sometimes it's the smaller group who is the loudest and demanding attention.

"Smaller group"? I think you'll find that the "doubters" are the majority. 56.36%, to be precise.

 

[kopwatcher]

"Smaller group"? I think you'll find that the "doubters" are the majority. 56.36%, to be precise.

I think they mean the disrespectful minority from both camps.

 

[SmoothCollins]

This is probably taking it way too far lol, but what if we came up with some sort of "respect" mods - people who are going to be fair, non biased, in their assessments (like the regular mods are) who would go through and put some sort of mark on someone's username stats if they're being purposefully disruptive or blatantly rude in their remarks?

That way it would encourage them to stop doing it, AND other users in the thread could see "oh this person has a history of trying to cause discord", so that we know to not give them extra attention by replying to their provoking remarks.

If the person shapes up, the marks go away in a few weeks? The more rude remarks, the more marks they get? I know it's kind of a negative way to deal with it, but I think it would be effective as long it's staff who's doing the marking (that way it's not biased).

 

[kottur13]

I think they mean the disrespectful minority from both camps.

Ah, okay. I thought that might be what he / she meant, but I feel it is necessary to state it anyway as having opinions discredited because "doubters" are considered "conspiracy theorists" (by some) needs to stop (not directing this at anyone at all, just a general statement).

 

[SmoothCollins]

"Smaller group"? I think you'll find that the "doubters" are the majority. 56.36%, to be precise.

She's not talking about anyone from either side- she's refering to the people who are purposely trying to stir up trouble from both sides.

It's really beside the point to make "sides". We are all MJ fans doing what we think is best for Michael, and I respect people for HOW they are expressing their opinions and not what their opinions are at this point.

 

[DarkMJ]

observe very often the forum ... And since the first announcement of Sony has become .... Anything, I find myself more here!

Too post is useless in the new album Forum.
GAZ do something! please? ... why not simply:

Subject: Announcement of a new album: No comment.
Topic: New album and title talk.
Subject: Poll Yes or No loves loves: No comment

. Point. nothing else.

Do what you want. sub-forum or not! Me no matter !
source the problem for = 3 songs ... XD

If Sony are not the courage to change the 3 tracks on 800. for an album ... O_O
Then there were other albums! Coming soon ...

 

[kottur13]

It's really beside the point to make "sides". We are all MJ fans doing what we think is best for Michael, and I respect people for HOW they are expressing their opinions and not what their opinions are at this point.

Yes, I don't really like this whole "believer" / "non-believer" thing either, but sometimes we need to be collectively referred to as such to make discussion easier.

 

[SmoothCollins]

:flowers: yeah I know what you mean. People can definately find ways to refer to people of another opinion without snarky labels though.

Saying something like "people who support the 3 tracks" or "people who don't support the 3 tracks". It might take a few more keystrokes, but it's worth not generalizing people I think .

 

[Ben]

The thing is, if everyone agrees on the need for more respect to their fellow fans, then we can also all self regulate the threads without adding more work to the mods. Whatever our opinion, we can ask the agressive ones to calm down, b/c in the end, on both sides (how sad that I have to use that word), they're just a minority.
And, again, as I've said several times, we're here for the same reason.

 

[Garden]

Same here.

I mean... sorry, "believers" (I can't believe we are using labels :no, do you think we really enjoy at all having doubts about this album?

How selfish from you, guys!!!! How selfish!!!!
Some of you must know I was there, almost every single day in the "Next album" thread, waiting for updates, waiting patiently. I was hating all the rumors about any "fake" tracks, I was there saying all the time that I didn't give a damn about rumors, for I just know for sure as soon as I heard the first line of the song... The day they released BN I SPENT THE NIGHT WAITING FOR IT!! It was 5 AM when it came....

... how do you think I felt? Do you think I jump out of joy and said "I knew, I knew it was not him!!!"?"

Sorry but... IT BROKE MY HEART!!! So many of you loooooveee so much saying you love Michael and loooveee saying "start with the man in the mirrow" and "heal the world" and "we are here for each other, we are family" and always "with L.O.V.E.".... why on earth for just one minute try to put in the place of us having doubts? We are not happy having doubts, guys. It hurts!!!

Again: we should not insult ANYONE if that person doesn't agree with us, whatever we think about those tracks.

Yes, it can have been like that for you, I won't doubt your words.
Yes, but still this are words. And I feel, just by the way of things went, and by how people speak, I feel doubt about some people's agenda or even their in/dependant thinking.
Conspiracies to not buying the album existed from the moment that people knew there was going to come an album. Anti Sony war.
Than the count down for breaking news, I stayed awake all nigh too. It was exciting in a positive way. Then the moment it was released. Suddenly the count down thread was innunded with "It is FAKE, OMG IT IS FAKE!" How can people in little seconds be so sure of that and with dozens together?
Well, I think it is very good possible things were long time ago discussed and agreed in the chatting rooms. Personally, I know some fans in anti-album conspiracy mode, even a conpatriote of me.
It explains the quasi agressive activist style from some of them...
Not every doubter or non-believer is like that, but more and more people got converted...
Sometimes I thought I was watching an electoral campaign...

 

[Garden]

Earlier I spoke out the idea of giving more warnings, even banning... but no, it wasn't a good idea.
I have already seen people running to Max Jax (it was in the first days of chaos and 10 day bans), and there they couldn't wait to scream out that Gaz had banned them just for not believing the tracks were not fake...
I even defended Gaz and soon the entire thread was all over this.
And in fact, we maybe mustn't complain, here it's been very peaceful in comparison with some other forums...
No, I think subforums isn't good either, they will scream it is APARTHEID.

 

[angel2]

Thank you for this thread bodf ... THANK YOU !!!

This continual negativity and moaning is just too much & taken too far ... especially when we should all be so thankful ... and celebrating that Michael is still very much with us in spirit & SO LOVED around the world.

We have lost Michael ... but we have not ... & we should feel blessed with all these gifts left for us by him.

Peace

 

[MJMarty]

Hmm... I've read all the posts in here so far, and there's good points in favor and against the idea of the subforum... I do find it annoying when threads seem to get trailed off into the vocal fight tangents but I'd be wary at dividing this community... How could you limit access or more importantly, make sure no one is left out?

Before Michael died I only ever looked at the public threads on here as a guest because I always felt kind of weird being a teenager and obsessed with someone who was in every sense of the word "unpopular" with my peers. I'd trail through the "new sightings" thread for hours on end!

When Michael died, I needed people to talk to and relate with, because it was a massive loss and no one understood and noticed. The "This Is It" forum and the news about possible future projects that got not just me, but other people excited too on here was what pushed me on through latter 2009. And so I found a little home here with people who had a massive attribute in common - LOVE for Michael Jackson.

Nowadays, it's rare for me to be on here for more than half an hour at a time. Too many threads that move at the speed of light because of arguing. Too many of the older members that were so good to me and other newbies now post almost nothing any more. I come here now just to look into the turmoil for any links to leaks or new info about projects. Every sense of the word community is totally gone from here for me now...

 

[Sophielo]

I just find it so sad how the sense of community in a sense has been lost because of what's happened. I used to be part of MJ forums years ago but as uni got busier that died down a bit and wasn't very active in the MJ online forums. After Michael passed I had no idea what to do. Like everyone there was no one I feel I could talk to as no one understood. I kept things bottled up and the summer of 2009 was the worst period of my life. I was depressed, lonely, worked myself to the bone as if I stopped for one minute all I could think of was Michael and it hurt too much to think about him. I was thinking of things that I never ever though I would even contemplate. Then in September I decided to take the plunge and get back involved in the MJ online community and it saved me, it really did. I felt I could say how I felt and not be judged as everyone was feeling the same as I was. And through coming back online I seriously have had the most amazing people come into my life and I thank Michael for that, its not a co-incidence that the people I consider my best friends came into my life at the period where I was at my lowest.

Sorry to digress but a year later all I see is arguing. I see the sense of community that helped me get through a very dark time in my life slipping away and giving away to fighting and arguing. I just want the community back. The people who I could pur my heart out to. Not this. Not the name calling and the fighting. Lets bring the love and the community back.

 

[Garden]

.....
Sorry to digress but a year later all I see is arguing. I see the sense of community that helped me get through a very dark time in my life slipping away and giving away to fighting and arguing. I just want the community back. The people who I could pur my heart out to. Not this. Not the name calling and the fighting. Lets bring the love and the community back.

Feeling with you. But I think we will not get there before those "loud" people that's been agitating people all over the place will stop doing that (me too maybe, as I have lost patience), and when they/we cannot stop by them/ourselves they/we should be warned or whatever it needs, from mods.
IMO.
Sorry for my direct style, I've spend too much time on forums last weeks and it is not good for me.

 

[Petrarose]

This is probably taking it way too far lol, but what if we came up with some sort of "respect" mods - people who are going to be fair, non biased, in their assessments (like the regular mods are) who would go through and put some sort of mark on someone's username stats if they're being purposefully disruptive or blatantly rude in their remarks?

That way it would encourage them to stop doing it, AND other users in the thread could see "oh this person has a history of trying to cause discord", so that we know to not give them extra attention by replying to their provoking remarks.

If the person shapes up, the marks go away in a few weeks? The more rude remarks, the more marks they get? I know it's kind of a negative way to deal with it, but I think it would be effective as long it's staff who's doing the marking (that way it's not biased).

The bolded makes me very nervous. It brings to my mind ideas and practices of stigmatizing which is a horrible thing that occurred in history. I hope we do not do this. Let us keep going forward and not backward.

 

[deano]

The truth very often comes out without people even knowing. This is how I see it;

The 'believers' seem happy to have their own forum to discuss all things 'positive' - and they are also happy for the 'doubters' to have their own place to discuss the 'negatives' as much as they like.

The 'doubters' are not happy for this to happen.

This surely tells you all you need to know?

The 'doubters' want to force the 'believers' to HAVE TO listen to what they say - whereas the 'believers' don't care if the 'doubters' listen to what they have to say.

Do people not see that one of these in reasonable, and one unreasonable!? Can people not see the 'motives' for the 'doubters' wanting only one forum - so everybody HAS TO listen to them?

Is it so strange that 'positive' Michael Jackson fans only want to discuss 'positive' things about Michael Jackson!!??

If I want to hear 'negative' shi* about MJ I can just pick up the trash tabloids or turn on the trash TV channels -I don't expect to hear the same shi* when I come on something that 'claims' to be a Michael Jackson forum.

Is it just me!?

 

[Petrarose]

^^^Remember Deano you are supposed TO BE NICE. ^^^

 

[kopwatcher]

deano, I think people came to an understanding in this thread. Then you trampled all over it.

 

[Petrarose]

Can someone make a Be Nice siggy?