eh no because we already have several threads (including this thread which examines what we can do and sub-forum possibility) that examine the same topic. It simply wasn't needed.
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To mods: Will the authenticity deniers continue to be allowed to disrupt all threads?
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eh no because we already have several threads (including this thread which examines what we can do and sub-forum possibility) that examine the same topic. It simply wasn't needed.
Calotte12
Proud Member
Not a conspiracy ? ahah so what is it then ?
Its on the same level than MJ being alive.
Its on the same level than MJ being alive.
smoothcriminal12
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This is what I mean. You are belittling our opinions and making it seem that you guys are better than us.
I've tried to stay on here, but I've pretty much had it with this forum.
kottur13
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Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
Exactly!Calotte12;3121475 said:
In almost every single thread conversation is heading in "conspiracy theory" direction. :ranting:
This is from Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Definition of CONSPIRACY
1 : the act of conspiring together
2 a : an agreement among conspirators
2 b : a group of conspirators
conspiracy defined for English-language learners »
1 [count] : a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
2 [noncount] : the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal
Definition of CONSPIRACY THEORY
a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators
And what we have here... :scratch:
In almost every single thread people claim that Michael Jackson isn't lead vocal on few songs on "Michael". And that's possible only IF a group of conspirators: Michael Jackson Estate, Cascios, Teddy Riley, unidentified singer(s), Sony management and other known and unknown people have made a secret illegal plan!
souldreamer7
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Labels..Labels. Agree to disagree when needed.
SmoothCollins
Proud Member
Yeah I'm not happy this thread is still going. We're not going to seperate. There are times in life where you're going to be around (and work with) people who don't agree with you. It's good practice for all of us because it's something unavoidable in life. We need to learn how to deal with it:
If someone attacks you for your opinion, you report it.
If someone tries to provoke you, just ignore it.
If someone goes off topic in a thread, if you reply to them, you're part of the problem- just ignore them and report it if necessary.
And see individuals instead of labels- that's true for everything in life. If you're calling people labels or names, you're part of the problem, no matter which opinion you're of.
I think most of us agree at this point that the problem isn't what opinion you have, but how we treat other people on here with our words. The vocal minority and angry/ upset few do not represent the rest of the forum. Let us move on :flowers:
If someone attacks you for your opinion, you report it.
If someone tries to provoke you, just ignore it.
If someone goes off topic in a thread, if you reply to them, you're part of the problem- just ignore them and report it if necessary.
And see individuals instead of labels- that's true for everything in life. If you're calling people labels or names, you're part of the problem, no matter which opinion you're of.
I think most of us agree at this point that the problem isn't what opinion you have, but how we treat other people on here with our words. The vocal minority and angry/ upset few do not represent the rest of the forum. Let us move on :flowers:
love is magical
Proud Member
Kikuchiyo;3121577 said:
Many people who don't support the tracks tried very hard to have a constructive discussions here. Many people are reasonable and respectful. It doesn't matter how hard we tried. We always got generalized and labeled.
Why the good posts are ignored? Why the valid questions are never answered? Time and time again, we are put down and ridiculed. Many supporters of the tracks get into attack mode and never bother trying to understand other's point of view.
I don't need you to educate me on what a conspiracy is. I know what it is and I'm not part of it.
JMie
Guests
awww :wub::wub::wub: how gorgeous is this man and his smile?? I know I wanted to write something before I saw this photo, but then I just sat staring in my monitor and smiling without a single thought in my head. I think we should so these random posts of Michael's photos more often, then there'll be less arguing and more admiring :wub:
Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
Look, everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want, rational or not... I have never questioned that. But I don't understand WHY some people INSIST on "songs are fake" discussions. Of course it takes two to tango but...
There is no constructive discussion because there isn't a single evidence (legal proof) about "songs are fake" besides "I don't hear Michael because..." argument and NOTHING will change their/our/my mind. So at the end it's "my father is stronger then your father" type of discussion. So what's the point? To prove what? Just argue for the sake of arguing? To ruin other people's fun? What?
Sony and Estate of Michael Jackson have results of voice identification tests and that is probably irrefutable proof but those results aren't published. It's dead end. End of story. I am pretty sure even if this subject go to court nothing will change, we'll still have two opposite sides like always in human history.
I come here to enjoy myself and relax in friendly conversations with fellow fans but I feel like
.Kind Regards!
Daniel.San
Proud Member
Kikuchiyo, I think people "insist" on talking about how they don't believe the songs are legit because it's a strong belief to hold. One that says that the world's greatest entertainer has a posthumous release where some of the songs are creating controversy amongst fans who have been following Michael for years/decades.
To say that the doubters post "songs are fake" threads almost as if it's being paraded around to create an argument is a bit silly. It would be like one of the doubters asking why the others NEED to drill it in that IT DEFINITELY IS HIM every time a Cascio track discussion is brought up.
I also see particular members still going around labelling sets of fans.
"L.O.V.E. forum" and "HATERS forum"... really? What about DOUBTERS instead of HATERS? By all means keep your "L.O.V.E." title, the break down of each letter of the word "love" is used so commonly around MJJC that i've forgotten it's original purpose. It's all yours.
To say that the doubters post "songs are fake" threads almost as if it's being paraded around to create an argument is a bit silly. It would be like one of the doubters asking why the others NEED to drill it in that IT DEFINITELY IS HIM every time a Cascio track discussion is brought up.
I also see particular members still going around labelling sets of fans.
"L.O.V.E. forum" and "HATERS forum"... really? What about DOUBTERS instead of HATERS? By all means keep your "L.O.V.E." title, the break down of each letter of the word "love" is used so commonly around MJJC that i've forgotten it's original purpose. It's all yours.
love is magical
Proud Member
Look, everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want, rational or not... I have never questioned that. But I don't understand WHY some people INSIST on "songs are fake" discussions. Of course it takes two to tango but...
There is no constructive discussion because there isn't a single evidence (legal proof) about "songs are fake" besides "I don't hear Michael because..." argument and NOTHING will change their/our/my mind. So at the end it's "my father is stronger then your father" type of discussion. So what's the point? To prove what? Just argue for the sake of arguing? To ruin other people's fun? What?
Sony and Estate of Michael Jackson have results of voice identification tests and that is probably irrefutable proof but those results aren't published. It's dead end. End of story. I am pretty sure even if this subject go to court nothing will change, we'll still have two opposite sides like always in human history.
I come here to enjoy myself and relax in friendly conversations with fellow fans but I feel like
Kind Regards!
Since you quote my post, I think it's fair for me to respond. Again, it appears that you generalize the people who don't support the Cascios tracks as "fake songs conspiracy theorists". It seems you don't perceive the viewpoints from people who don't support the tracks constructive and that they don't contribute to the current discussion.
I can't speak for others. I, myself, don't support Breaking News because of its quality, not its authenticity. I never used the word "fake" when expressing my opinion. I never doubt that Michael was in the song, but the vocals are badly manipulated and layered.
Eventhough my opinons are far from the extreme, I, sometimes, don't feel comfortable posting. As a matter of fact, many members here share similar views. Many members have issue with the quality of the demos. We never point fingers to the Cascios. I never attempt to prove anything, for everyone's taste is subjective. I never attempt to ruin other's fun. I still don't get why people keep saying their fun and excitement is ruined by other fans. If you feel strongly about a song, you don't care what other said, you still love it. For instance, I love Heartbreaker; yet, 90% of people here don't have much nice to say about that song. I still love that song and have fun listening to it.
All I want to do is to express my opinion in a respectful manner. I enjoy engaging into a discussion with someone who shares similar opinion. At the same time, I enjoy having a conversaion with people who have different opinion. Sometimes, the difference in us is enlightening. I feel I learnt a lot from those who are different than me.
As long as we keep our posts respectful and reasonable, we are adding to this forum and contributing.
dirtydiana27
Proud Member
I agree Daniel. This is a red-hot topic among fans, but we must remember that we are ALL fans. When we use the word "haters", it has always meant "those who talk, write and generally bash Michael--the DDs of the world. Those of us who DOUBT some of the tracks on "Michael" should not be labelled "haters". We are merely Michael Jackson fans who disagree with other Michael Jackson fans about the authenticity of some songs released without Michael's approval. Michael was all about L.O.V.E.---not hate! Let's all agree to respect each other's opinion---we can all AGREE to DISAGREE without "hate".
butterflies
Proud Member
Kikuchiyo;3121577 said:
:yes: Right on!! People then get upset if we say they believe in some kind of conspiracy, but yet that's what it would have to be. Sony, the Estate and the Cascios would have had to come up with a plan to put "fake" songs on the album and see if they could fool everyone into buying it. Yep, sounds like a conspiracy theory to me! Like it or not.
dirtydiana27;3122759 said:
I agree that no one should be called a hater, that's not fair.
Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
:blink:
Hmmm, obviously we have a problem in communication. I never talked about people who don't support songs because of quality. Read again my conspiracy theory post. I said: In almost every single thread conversation is heading in "conspiracy theory" direction..
So if you didn't talk about authenticity deniers in your first reply WHY did you quote/replied to me at the first place? I didn't wrote a single word against people who don't support Cascios' songs because of quality. Then if you read again my second post I again only wrote about people who insist on "songs are fake" discussions etc. so... :scratch:
I repeat, I am only talking about authenticity deniers and conspiracy theorists. Some of them hijacked almost every single thread with repetitive claims.
I am talking about atmosphere. There is so much negativity and hate in almost every single thread. Flame wars, flame baits, topic hijacking etc. Yeah, that's a real fun! :holiday:
I second that!
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love is magical
Proud Member
:blink:
Hmmm, obviously we have a problem in communication. I never talked about people who don't support songs because of quality. Read again my conspiracy theory post. I said: In almost every single thread conversation is heading in "conspiracy theory" direction..
So if you didn't talk about authenticity deniers in your first reply WHY did you quote/replied to me at the first place? I didn't wrote a single word against people who don't support Cascios' songs because of quality. Then if you read again my second post I again only wrote about people who insist on "songs are fake" discussions etc. so... :scratch:
I repeat, I am only talking about authenticity deniers and conspiracy theorists. Some of them hijacked almost every single thread with repetitive claims.
I am talking about atmosphere. There is so much negativity and hate in almost every single thread. Flame wars, flame baits, topic hijacking etc. Yeah, that's real fun! :holiday:
I second that!
You are absolutely right. I'm not an autheticity denier. The reason I came to this thread and the reason I quoted you because I wanted to voice out my concern, as I'm totally against the sub-forum idea.
One thing I have obseved is that the discussion is not trending to "conpiracy direction" until the people who support the tracks react and label the non-supporters "conspiracy theorists". When you dedicated a post specifically on definition of "conspiracy", you pretty much brought up that idea yourself. You feel people who don't support the tracks hijacked the threads. In the mean time, I can also claim that the supporters hijacked every thread by calling the non-supporters "non-fans", "idiots", "delusional", etc. Don't you see the insults come from both side. I don't see the doubters are asking a sub-forum for the people who support the album.
The negativity and hate are not brought solely by the so-called "authenticity deniers" (I'm not one of these people, but I understand where they are coming from.) All these people love and respect Michael. How's that hate? They love Michael, but not the 3 tracks on the album MICHAEL. What's so wrong about it? That's not hate nor negative. What's wrong is that when one group of fans single out another group of fans because they don't share similar taste, similar passion on one matter? The truth is many supporters are doing exactly that and starting the negativity themselves.
The One.
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AAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!
I'm sorry but this is just so frustrating to me. Why do we have to keep discussing the same subject in every damn thread?
Couldn't there be one thread for all three Cascio songs where those who want can discuss their authenticity and the rest of the forum could be kept clear of that constant fight??
I'm sorry but this is just so frustrating to me. Why do we have to keep discussing the same subject in every damn thread?
Couldn't there be one thread for all three Cascio songs where those who want can discuss their authenticity and the rest of the forum could be kept clear of that constant fight??
butterflies
Proud Member
No, it goes to the conspiracy theory talk when people start saying that Sony and the Estate put fake songs on the album, in cohoots with the Cascios who are also lying and going along with fake songs being put on the album. I've seen people say that people are being bought off, etc. That would be a conspiracy.
I really like you, and I've loved other posts by you, and I have no doubt that you love Michael and are a true fan. You are not one who has caused any problems because when you say you dislike a song, you give reasons, and you do not attack anyone. You definitely do not seem to be doing it just to disrupt people or to make anyone unhappy, but there are SOME who do just that.
Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
That's chicken or the egg debate.
IMO some conspiracy theorists deliberately put flame baits in their (ontopic) comments. That's the trigger. I can quote countless examples of that.
I don't understand why do you think that? I never ment that. Really!
If I unintentionally offended you, I apologize!
I agree with you but as I said IMO conspiracy theorists are triggers.
They put flame baits and then we have flame wars, pointless discussions etc.
That's because doubters need listeners. Their opinion isn't official one (legally speaking) so they are miserable.
They need people from other side who'll listen what they have to say and some of them are simply on crusade to recruit new followers.
The problem is like I said before there isn't a single evidence (legal proof) about "songs are fake" besides "I don't hear Michael because..." argument and NOTHING will change their/our/my mind so it's pointless to bring that same subject in almost every thread.
I absolutely agree.
Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
@butterflies
I completely agree with you!
I completely agree with you!
love is magical
Proud Member
@Kikuchiyo: No, you didn't offend me. There is no need to apologize. I guess I might have overreacted myself. And, it's true that minority from both sides are causing problems here.
@Anna, there is always love and passion in MJ forum. Just because people are debating doesn't mean that we have no love, if we don't love Michael this much, we won't be spending our time here passionately discussing our views. Love doesn't mean everyone has to agree and share the same views. This forum is very diversified and people bound to have different opinions. Again, people who don't support or decide not to buy the album love Michael very much. They are not destroying Michael's legacy. I think it's important for us to respect other's decision and be more considerate.
@Anna, there is always love and passion in MJ forum. Just because people are debating doesn't mean that we have no love, if we don't love Michael this much, we won't be spending our time here passionately discussing our views. Love doesn't mean everyone has to agree and share the same views. This forum is very diversified and people bound to have different opinions. Again, people who don't support or decide not to buy the album love Michael very much. They are not destroying Michael's legacy. I think it's important for us to respect other's decision and be more considerate.
smoothcriminal12
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You're right.
All we have is bickering and fighting. For the past few months, the only thing I've seen on this forum is rudeness and fighting. --
Some of you don't understand. Us "authenticity deniers" are MICHAEL FANS AS WELL. We just believe that these songs are not Michael - and we sure as heck have a good reason to. Don't belittle us or make fun of us because we don't believe it's Michael. Jeez.
And no, it is not a conspiracy theory. It's as much of a conspiracy as your beliefs are.
Kikuchiyo
Proud Member
I just saw thread and post#2 and and I give up. This is masochism, it's become more pain than fun. Some people here DELIBERATELY flaming almost every single thread and because of freedom of speech they are protected like polar bears.
The title of this sub-forum is Michael - The Immortal Experience:
Description: Michael Jackson has for decades entertained us the fans with his music and shows, today we turn a new corner in the milestone that gives us another chance to enjoy his god given talent through music and video. Here we discuss Read and enjoy Michael - The immortal World Tour - Vision and much much more.
I must say clearly misleading description. :scratch:
Everyone is entitled to believe whatever but on this forum I see more hatred and ignorance regarding album "Michael" then on general Internet forums. I had a personal tragedy in my life but I don't hate anyone and yet some people here openly spread hatred against new album, Teddy Riley, Cascio family etc. only because they BELIEVE in something.
Overall, a very unhealthy atmosphere!
Kind Regards!
P.S.
Happy New Year to Everyone!
The title of this sub-forum is Michael - The Immortal Experience:
Description: Michael Jackson has for decades entertained us the fans with his music and shows, today we turn a new corner in the milestone that gives us another chance to enjoy his god given talent through music and video. Here we discuss Read and enjoy Michael - The immortal World Tour - Vision and much much more.
I must say clearly misleading description. :scratch:
Everyone is entitled to believe whatever but on this forum I see more hatred and ignorance regarding album "Michael" then on general Internet forums. I had a personal tragedy in my life but I don't hate anyone and yet some people here openly spread hatred against new album, Teddy Riley, Cascio family etc. only because they BELIEVE in something.
Overall, a very unhealthy atmosphere!
Kind Regards!
P.S.
Happy New Year to Everyone!