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To mods: Will the authenticity deniers continue to be allowed to disrupt all threads?

Gaz said:
Who is for a sub forum,

As the community is now divided perhaps this is the only way forward.
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I'm sorry but I don't think that would solve the problem. For me it feels like we would be even more divided if we are separated to different "subforums" based on what we believe.

The only solution imo is that every single member takes a good look at him/herself and sees how he has acted. It's clear that the fanbase is divided at the moment but seariously couldn't we all try to be grown ups for a while? It shouldn't be so hard to be able to discuss things without making it personal and without trying to feed your own opinion to everyone who thinks otherwise. It has always been a rule here for us to have our own opinions with respect to others and the same rule is still on.
If you don't agree with someone, you can state your opinion but don't have to keep saying the same arguement over and over again and make the other feel like it's wrong to think otherwise, just let everyone have their own opinion!

Sorry, end of rant :)
 
deano said:
The 'believers' seem happy to have their own forum to discuss all things 'positive' - and they are also happy for the 'doubters' to have their own place to discuss the 'negatives' as much as they like.

The 'doubters' are not happy for this to happen.

This surely tells you all you need to know?
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You're shooting yourself in the foot. It shows that we don't want the community to be divided. It could also show that the "believers" want to be off in their own little world where they can't see other people's opinions because it upsets them for some reason, but I don't think that's true, although it makes more sense than your implication.
 
There're no positive fans or negative fans. We're all fans, and we all still grieving. You can not lump everybody together b/c not all those you call negative have spammed the other threads, and vice versa.
Stating what you did is taking a shortcut that sounds too agressive, Deano. I don't see how creating 2 parts in the forum could work. The only thing it would create 2 different communities, which is horrifying to me.
This situation is new, and confusing. The only one we could blindly trust is gone. To me, it's only natural that it takes a bit of time for us to find ways to adjust, even if it's a bit bumpy in the beginning. We need to stick together, next year will certainly be hard enough.
 
Next year obviously the trial is coming up and that is a time where we need each other the most. With the prelim next month and trial hopefully not too long after we need each other. I am against sub forums personally as I feel we're too divided as it is, and feel that is a way of dividing us even further.
 
Giant Enemy Cat said:
You're shooting yourself in the foot. It shows that we don't want the community to be divided. It could also show that the "believers" want to be off in their own little world where they can't see other people's opinions because it upsets them for some reason, but I don't think that's true, although it makes more sense than your implication.
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You're one who thinks the Cascio tracks are 'FAKE' and you won't be buying the album I take it?

Again I say, it's the anti-'Michael' 'fans' that are most against the 'positive' fans having a good time and discussing the album in a 'positive' light.

Funny that!
 
deano said:
Again I say, it's the anti-'Michael' 'fans' that are most against the 'positive' fans having a good time and discussing the album in a 'positive' light.
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No. It's a few agressive ones annoying people with different opinions. On BOTH parts. Period.
 
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deano said:
You're one who thinks the Cascio tracks are 'FAKE' and you won't be buying the album I take it?

Again I say, it's the anti-'Michael' 'fans' that are most against the 'positive' fans having a good time and discussing the album in a 'positive' light.

Funny that!
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Actually, I don't like the idea of different sub-forums either. And I don't think I'm one you call "anti-Michael".

Ben971 said:
No. It's a few agressive idiots annoying people with different opinions. On BOTH parts. Period.
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And did you realise that by calling someone an idiot you probably just caused a little more negativity to the thread..
 
The One. said:
And did you realise that by calling someone an idiot you probably just caused a little more negativity to the thread..
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Maybe, sorry. :agree: Post edited. Got frustrated for a minute.
I dont understand people, whatever their opinions, who keep posting the same stuff again and again, without paying attention to the topic.

And again, it's far from being the majority of each "side". That was my point.
 
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Wait, guys, making two sub-forums? No waaay, are you serious?
Is it a civil war or what? :bugeyed
 
oooh, i don't like the idea of sub-forums...People just need to check themselves..Simple as that...The report button and ignore list are beautiful things :cheeky:
 
deano said:
The truth very often comes out without people even knowing. This is how I see it;

The 'believers' seem happy to have their own forum to discuss all things 'positive' - and they are also happy for the 'doubters' to have their own place to discuss the 'negatives' as much as they like.

The 'doubters' are not happy for this to happen.

This surely tells you all you need to know?

The 'doubters' want to force the 'believers' to HAVE TO listen to what they say - whereas the 'believers' don't care if the 'doubters' listen to what they have to say.

Do people not see that one of these in reasonable, and one unreasonable!? Can people not see the 'motives' for the 'doubters' wanting only one forum - so everybody HAS TO listen to them?

Is it so strange that 'positive' Michael Jackson fans only want to discuss 'positive' things about Michael Jackson!!??

If I want to hear 'negative' shi* about MJ I can just pick up the trash tabloids or turn on the trash TV channels -I don't expect to hear the same shi* when I come on something that 'claims' to be a Michael Jackson forum.

Is it just me!?
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Your missing the point, this is nothing to do with MJ, nothing at all. Nobody would be on this sight if they had one bad word about MJ. Comparing us to tabloids, for doing ever single action with LOVE for MJ and everything he stood for is quiet frankly pathetic. You just don't understand do you...........
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
Your missing the point, this is nothing to do with MJ, nothing at all. Nobody would be on this sight if they had one bad word about MJ. Comparing us to tabloids, for doing ever single action with LOVE for MJ and everything he stood for is quiet frankly pathetic. You just don't understand do you...........
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I think we can only speak for ourselves. Not everybody is as conscious in this as you are Mjultimatemusiclegen...
I think Deano maybe should have said "some of us..." or "some of the loud screaming people.." or "some trolls" on both sides :-D...

*now says to self : hush garden, never mind, stop it*

But... in general, I have always wondered how people from day 1 on could say "we hear", "we think" as if they/we shared one couple of ears and one brain...
 
mc8755 said:
Hmm... I've read all the posts in here so far, and there's good points in favor and against the idea of the subforum... I do find it annoying when threads seem to get trailed off into the vocal fight tangents but I'd be wary at dividing this community... How could you limit access or more importantly, make sure no one is left out?

Before Michael died I only ever looked at the public threads on here as a guest because I always felt kind of weird being a teenager and obsessed with someone who was in every sense of the word "unpopular" with my peers. I'd trail through the "new sightings" thread for hours on end!

When Michael died, I needed people to talk to and relate with, because it was a massive loss and no one understood and noticed. The "This Is It" forum and the news about possible future projects that got not just me, but other people excited too on here was what pushed me on through latter 2009. And so I found a little home here with people who had a massive attribute in common - LOVE for Michael Jackson.

Nowadays, it's rare for me to be on here for more than half an hour at a time. Too many threads that move at the speed of light because of arguing. Too many of the older members that were so good to me and other newbies now post almost nothing any more. I come here now just to look into the turmoil for any links to leaks or new info about projects. Every sense of the word community is totally gone from here for me now...
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This is a great post. It's sad but also very true. I feel the same way. I've been a member since 2003, and it's never been like this before, and I find it very sad. There is just so much negativity all the time.
 
Garden said:
Yes, it can have been like that for you, I won't doubt your words.
Yes, but still this are words. And I feel, just by the way of things went, and by how people speak, I feel doubt about some people's agenda or even their in/dependant thinking.
Conspiracies to not buying the album existed from the moment that people knew there was going to come an album. Anti Sony war.
Than the count down for breaking news, I stayed awake all nigh too. It was exciting in a positive way. Then the moment it was released. Suddenly the count down thread was innunded with "It is FAKE, OMG IT IS FAKE!" How can people in little seconds be so sure of that and with dozens together?
Well, I think it is very good possible things were long time ago discussed and agreed in the chatting rooms. Personally, I know some fans in anti-album conspiracy mode, even a conpatriote of me.
It explains the quasi agressive activist style from some of them...
Not every doubter or non-believer is like that, but more and more people got converted...
Sometimes I thought I was watching an electoral campaign...
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Sorry, but... how far is this reasoning for that of the "conspiracy" reasoning many use to disregard opinions against the Cascio tracks? Of course it took me a minute to know MJ was not 100% in BN. And I was following this with many friends over the world in FB too and the reaction was the same. Everywhere from Hong Kong, to NYC, LA, Santiago or Uk, many of us had the same reaction and I can tell you for sure none of us had coordinated that reaction. In fact, MJJC didn't accept any posts in some 20 minutes. And we can all agree BN is far from the best track in the album, so I would forever keep my original opinion: that was a totally wrong decition of the Estate/Sony. Nothing had happened if they would have started with Hollywood Tonight or Best of Joy, for instance.

Certainly, I can't talk for the whole world in this. I have seen many petitions and the like to boycott the album as soon as it was known $ony was the chosen partner.

I know a lot of people who say buying this album (or any other) from Sony is almost a crime. But they are able to express their opinion in a very polite way. Then I know someone who is sure there are no vocals added to Michael and he asked who of the people in his FB didn't agree with him. I say I didn't for I do have doubts about 3 tracks and he deleted me from his "friends" list.

So... who is the one right here? I don't know, but I do know taking any sides of this silly fight is quite chidish. And creating tricky stories is not the best answer either. That applies to both sides too.

And again: I AM TOTALLY AGAINST DIVISION in this forum or anywhere ese. We are all entitled to our opinions, but we also must respect others' opinions.

For instance, I want to know why people trust the 10 tracks completely. I want to know because I try to keep my mind open to suggestions and different point of views expressed in a polite way.

Dividing the forum will only encourage us to keep our mind closed to different opinions.

Is that what you want from a forum? Is that what you want in general terms? I don't want that. I want to learn from others, for if there is one thing I am totally sure of, it's that I don't know it all.
 
Garden said:
But... in general, I have always wondered how people from day 1 on could say "we hear", "we think" as if they/we shared one couple of ears and one brain...
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I think perhaps you're reading just a bit too much into it. It's a very simple concept; people independently came to their own decision with their own two ears, and whaddya'know, many people came to the same conclusion. There's only so many conclusions you can come to: Fake, real, or not sure.

You could quite easily use the same reasoning to suggest all the people who hear MJ on the tracks are in cahoots with each other!
 
deano said:
The truth very often comes out without people even knowing. This is how I see it;

The 'believers' seem happy to have their own forum to discuss all things 'positive' - and they are also happy for the 'doubters' to have their own place to discuss the 'negatives' as much as they like.

The 'doubters' are not happy for this to happen.

This surely tells you all you need to know?

The 'doubters' want to force the 'believers' to HAVE TO listen to what they say - whereas the 'believers' don't care if the 'doubters' listen to what they have to say.

Do people not see that one of these in reasonable, and one unreasonable!? Can people not see the 'motives' for the 'doubters' wanting only one forum - so everybody HAS TO listen to them?

Is it so strange that 'positive' Michael Jackson fans only want to discuss 'positive' things about Michael Jackson!!??

If I want to hear 'negative' shi* about MJ I can just pick up the trash tabloids or turn on the trash TV channels -I don't expect to hear the same shi* when I come on something that 'claims' to be a Michael Jackson forum.

Is it just me!?
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Somebody remove this button from Deano's keyboard>>>> '

I'm begging you.

Deano I have one thing to say, a lot of the negativity comes from yourself. You fuel the fire, if you go round calling fans 'anti Michael' then you are bound to generate reactions from people. More arguements and more talk about fake vocals.

You cant seriously compare some of us to tabloids, thats just beyond ridiculous. I understand your frustrated but thats just way over the top. People are reacting this way out of love for Michael.
 
"Here we go again, as the story unfolds, there will be a lot more to say about Michael Jackson." - Breaking News

The authenticity deniers are out in full force today on every thread.
 
It's actually a little depressing that some fans can't recognise MJ when they hear him, just because his vocals sound slightly different.
 
I don't want no subforums at all.

I could write answers (I won't say it will be the good answers, I am no know-it-all) to everything that is said in reaction to my post, but I am not going to do it.
It is useless.

Only one thing : after the twitter of T, the Opis/pus None thing and so on, with this controversy concerning the vocals, long time warriors against this/any new MJ album had found a royal weapon.
 
My head will explode! Today, every single thread is full of [BEEP]. :perrin:

JMie said:
I'd be happy if I'd be delegated to another place and I'll stay in my happy corner and won't go out, because I can't see the word "fake" anymore. It makes me literally sick. So the sub-forum doesn't have to be for anti-Cascio songs people. I'd be totally okay with a sub-forum for pro-Cascio songs people. I just really need a calm quiet place to wait for the album and to discuss it. Because now it's all over the forum. Even in the threads that are not about these songs. You go to the Blue Gangsta thread and read "wow, this is real MJ, and those songs are fake", then you go to the TV promo thread and you read "wow, what a nice promo, but sadly the songs are fake" etc Some people are enjoying it so much that they repeat the fake talk over and over just to say the word "fake" one more time. One poster even re-wrote the chorus of Bad to the tune of "fake". At some point it just becomes too much.

I am a peaceful person. And I don't want to argue with people. When I come to this board, I am not looking for an argument. I am looking for a civil and friendly discussion with people who are supposed to be one big global MJ fan family. I have enough arguments outside the fandom, I don't need it here, especially since for me as a fan the blissfully happy time was over when Michael passed and there are very few chances for joy now. This album for me is one of these few chances. I know I won't be able to enjoy it like I enjoyed HIStory, or BOTD, or Invincible, but whatever amount of joy I can get out of this, I want. And it's being ruined every day :(
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:clapping:

deano said:
The truth very often comes out without people even knowing. This is how I see it;

The 'believers' seem happy to have their own forum to discuss all things 'positive' - and they are also happy for the 'doubters' to have their own place to discuss the 'negatives' as much as they like.

The 'doubters' are not happy for this to happen.

This surely tells you all you need to know?

The 'doubters' want to force the 'believers' to HAVE TO listen to what they say - whereas the 'believers' don't care if the 'doubters' listen to what they have to say.

Do people not see that one of these in reasonable, and one unreasonable!? Can people not see the 'motives' for the 'doubters' wanting only one forum - so everybody HAS TO listen to them?

Is it so strange that 'positive' Michael Jackson fans only want to discuss 'positive' things about Michael Jackson!!??

If I want to hear 'negative' shi* about MJ I can just pick up the trash tabloids or turn on the trash TV channels -I don't expect to hear the same shi* when I come on something that 'claims' to be a Michael Jackson forum.

Is it just me!?
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:clapping:
 
Greg Philiganes just confirmed it is MJ on Breaking News :

french revue "vibrations"

Voici la retranscription de la réponse de Greg Phillinganes à la question:
"Pouvez-vous confirmer que vous avez tout à fait reconnu la voix d'mj sur le lead vocal du titre breaking news? Que pensez vous de la controverse concernant l'authenticité des prises de voix d'mj sur certains morceaux?"

Greg Philiganes :

C'est michael qui chante. Il y avait de la controverse autour de lui de son vivant,si bien que cela ne me surprend guère qu'il y en ait encore maintenant qu'il est parti.il serait assez stupide pour ceux qui gèrent la succèssion de sortir de nouvelles musiques d'mj avec de fausses pistes vocales.personne ne semble considérer les ramifications de cela.
 
botdf said:
Every thread, including positive nice threads like, e.g. 30 second commercial is available, is consistently destroyed by a small group constantly posting, "yeah but it's fake", in about a dozen different ways, usually with multiple posts by the same person.

Deniers, we would appreciate you to not post these denials to every thread. Please keep these denials to specific threads created for the deniers. Deniers don't interest me right now, nor do they interest the vast majority of MJJC participators.

Please, for the sake of this board, and others, just stop posting denials over and over again.

And to the mods: will there ever come a point where you can start moving authenticity denial posts to a separate thread? It would make this forum a much better place.

Thanks very much, and have a nice day. I'm definitely looking forward to this release.

Mods: feel free to delete this post as well.
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Finally some sense, i really can't beieve there is still fans questioning this, anyway if they really need to persist then at least keep it to the threads that were created for the doubters.
 
Gottobethere said:
Finally some sense, i really can't beieve there is still fans questioning this, anyway if they really need to persist then at least keep it to the threads that were created for the doubters.
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Although I'm for some songs and against others on the album, I agree. All the negativity as a whole might end up chasing people away from here. I hate to say that. But that is very true for me personally.
 
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Why do you make it seem like we are disrupting the threads? I hate how you guys all treat us "deniers" like we're the scum of the Earth.
 
I post a new thread

Fakes Vocals ---> Conspiracy Section

And it got erased in seconds. I wonder why, its the best solution.
 
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