To mods: Will the authenticity deniers continue to be allowed to disrupt all threads?

[Petrarose]

I don't know, but it sounds like censorship, segregation of groups (like people), dictatorship and other not nice things. Certainly there is a better way to keep harmony--simply do not fight with someone who has a different view, laugh at them when they change their view, or be disparaging. BE NICE.

 

[Ashtanga]

 

[potpot]

Lol ^^^

 

[potpot]

I think instead of trying to come up with ways to divide us, we should try to come up with ways to unite us.

I remember after June 25, 2009 things were a bit hectic around here. But after a while things were back to normal. So that's why I believe this is only temporary.

Soo true this will clam down like as soon the clock strike midnight on Dec. 14 (US date)...

 

[Hess]

BUY AND SUPPORT MICHAEL !!!

Let's make MJ the only artist EVER to have a #1 album for 5decades in a row !!!!

BUY BUY - SUPPORT SUPPORT!!

 

[Soundmind]

I don't support the ban of any members, everyone here loves the man, at least I hope so, as long as they are respectful of MJ and other members I hope they can voice their opinions freely.

 

[JMie]

I am glad we had this talk yesterday. I think we all needed it to get all the frustration out of our system. Today the board seems much calmer and happier. Thank you to everyone!! HUGS!

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

^^^most boards run amok on Fridays, end of the week, people are done, tired...usually by Friday evening things calm down when people had a bite to eat and a drink or so...

 

[Ben]

I totaly agree with Giving Tree. And I think the solution Sophie offered is just fine. It shouldnt have to go as far as dividing the forum on this issue. Everybody's on edge, but still, as it's been said, we're adults (supposedly) and each and everyone of us should act, and type with respect. We dont agree on the tracks, fine. There's no need to jump at each other's throats. A little bit of autoregulation should be enough.
We agree on Michael, and that's what matters.

 

[billyblues]

hate? why are u accusing us of hate? i am not hating. i am just trying to get sense from this.

michael said his music is supposed to CONNECT and make all feel ONE, and that his goal in life was to bring "UNION" through his music and dance

so why is michael music not doing this now??? to me it is strange that michaels music is breaking fans apart instead. something is clearly wrong about his music now, at least the casio tracks. that is all im saying. there is not hate

and what about the hate showed from fans who support the album to those who dont?

one last thing, I don't if sony's purpose to make this album was to make money or fulfull Michael's true desire to connect everyone across the world in peace and love.....but i think that may be where the root of all this is

Maybe because some doubters sound like a bunch of kids who watched too many conspiracy movies and us believers are the "blind people" who can't see the truth. Simple as that, that's why MJ's music is not connecting people.

You really think that MJ's music alone has the magical power of connecting people? Then you should welcome reality. No offense meant. People are to blame for their own attitudes, including the fact that they feel like offending/"flaming" others for not sharing of their opinion in every single topic.
Some people around here would enjoy this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mouaGcXxoM&feature=player_embedded

I NEVER before felt like if people were spoiling my fun with something. This is the first time I can honestly say that they ARE spoiling my fun and of others about this album, including comments about we being "idiot" and so on because we "can't see it's not MJ!! ZOMG!!". And the worse about it? I listen to 2 or more "new" tracks back to back and frankly, it's the same guy singing in all of them. There's absolutely nothing SCREAMING "FAKE!!" in most of what I heard. It's just people being paranoid and doubters for the sake of being paranoid and doubters. And then they find their playground around here spoiling the fun of people with their "oh so big logical sense" and "I know Michael!!".

I'm all for logical and respectful discussions, including about the new songs being fake or not. But 90% of the guys around here are either trying to plain offend those who believe because "they know Michael" or trying to sound like "internet smart guys" in their posts, so they'll sleep better at night. It's been ridiculous. I don't like censorship, but it's been going too far lately.

 

[Garden]

I believe the root of all this is fans who dont see the BIG picture
Sony is in the business to make money. All record companies are.
They are a business. That is thier main purpose. They promote distibute
and sell the artist work. They dont make the Magic

Its Michaels music that will connect the world and it will
regarless of 3 questionable tracks that fans argue over
We should Just Allow Michael's music do what it is suppose to do. :wub:

This !

 

[Eline15]

I totaly respect everybody who think the tracks are real, but please also respect me for having doubts. I am not going to boycot anything, because I still think it's important for this album to have good sales. There are just 3 tracks that I'm not going to listen to. There have been planted to many seeds in my head to ever enjoy this tracks. But I'm happy for people who like them and support them. Let's bring some love back to this forum

 

[kottur13]

But 90% of the guys around here are either trying to plain offend those who believe because "they know Michael" or trying to sound like "internet smart guys" in their posts, so they'll sleep better at night. It's been ridiculous. I don't like censorship, but it's been going too far lately.

90%? I don't think so. More like 10%.

You need to realise that's it's not only (some of) the doubters who are being morons. I'm not going to name any names, but there are just as many (if not more) people on the other side of the fence being VERY aggressive, spouting this "If you don't believe it's MJ, you're not a fan" or "You're crazy conspiracy theorists" crap, and some are even flat out insulting people because they don't share their views.

 

[Garden]

I'd be happy if I'd be delegated to another place and I'll stay in my happy corner and won't go out, because I can't see the word "fake" anymore. It makes me literally sick. So the sub-forum doesn't have to be for anti-Cascio songs people. I'd be totally okay with a sub-forum for pro-Cascio songs people. I just really need a calm quiet place to wait for the album and to discuss it. Because now it's all over the forum. Even in the threads that are not about these songs. You go to the Blue Gangsta thread and read "wow, this is real MJ, and those songs are fake", then you go to the TV promo thread and you read "wow, what a nice promo, but sadly the songs are fake" etc Some people are enjoying it so much that they repeat the fake talk over and over just to say the word "fake" one more time. One poster even re-wrote the chorus of Bad to the tune of "fake". At some point it just becomes too much.

I am a peaceful person. And I don't want to argue with people. When I come to this board, I am not looking for an argument. I am looking for a civil and friendly discussion with people who are supposed to be one big global MJ fan family. I have enough arguments outside the fandom, I don't need it here, especially since for me as a fan the blissfully happy time was over when Michael passed and there are very few chances for joy now. This album for me is one of these few chances. I know I won't be able to enjoy it like I enjoyed HIStory, or BOTD, or Invincible, but whatever amount of joy I can get out of this, I want. And it's being ruined every day

I agree.
For me ... it is not so much a problem that people believe tracks are fake but : IMO,

1. People that really belittle others who believe (or vice versa not believe), should be at least warned by the mods. We'll have to report.
2. Those who have been/ still are on a mission to convince people that tracks are fake, sometimes on the border of agressive, should at least be warned by the mods.
3. I think those who repeatedly show that behaviour of being on that mission should be temporarily banned.
4. Subforums for fake and not-fake believers are no good idea. Isolating almost "extremes" is not good. They only can get more extreme. How can they come together again?

 

[SmoothCollins]

I agree with sophielo and ginvid, it's not about the opinions, it's about empathy and respect. Calling everyone who doesn't believe "full of hate" or "troublemakers" is generalizing and mean spirited. If you want a forum of understanding and support, you need to show it to people who don't share your opinion.

Ignore the people who are trying to provoke (on either side of the opinion), or reply in a calm and understanding way, and they will eventually have nothing more to argue about. I've been an MJJ fan for 19 years and have experienced this again and again- some people (on BOTH sides) are just the type of person who likes to argue- don't give into them and let it ruin anything for you... that's what keeps them going.

I have never attacked or been rude to anyone for not sharing my opinion on here. I'm always respectful, nice, and empathetic to other people's views- yet just because I don't support the 3 tracks, I'm still being grouped as a "hater" or a "troublemaker" and being asked to not participate in some threads? I'm not asking the people who believe they're real to go play with themselves and be thrown into their own forum- all I want is for you to be respectful of my opinion like I am of yours. :flowers: Please don't label me for my views just because some people aren't being respectful.

 

[Garden]

I'd be happy if I'd be delegated to another place and I'll stay in my happy corner and won't go out, because I can't see the word "fake" anymore. It makes me literally sick. So the sub-forum doesn't have to be for anti-Cascio songs people. I'd be totally okay with a sub-forum for pro-Cascio songs people. I just really need a calm quiet place to wait for the album and to discuss it. Because now it's all over the forum. Even in the threads that are not about these songs. You go to the Blue Gangsta thread and read "wow, this is real MJ, and those songs are fake", then you go to the TV promo thread and you read "wow, what a nice promo, but sadly the songs are fake" etc Some people are enjoying it so much that they repeat the fake talk over and over just to say the word "fake" one more time. One poster even re-wrote the chorus of Bad to the tune of "fake". At some point it just becomes too much.

I am a peaceful person. And I don't want to argue with people. When I come to this board, I am not looking for an argument. I am looking for a civil and friendly discussion with people who are supposed to be one big global MJ fan family. I have enough arguments outside the fandom, I don't need it here, especially since for me as a fan the blissfully happy time was over when Michael passed and there are very few chances for joy now. This album for me is one of these few chances. I know I won't be able to enjoy it like I enjoyed HIStory, or BOTD, or Invincible, but whatever amount of joy I can get out of this, I want. And it's being ruined every day

This is the way that I feel too.

 

[Ben]

Maybe because some doubters sound like a bunch of kids who watched too many conspiracy movies and us believers are the "blind people" who can't see the truth.

Come on, this kind of comment is not necessary or nice either. Dont get me wrong and dont see any offense here. I totally understand your point of view and frustration. But from what I've seen, both "sides" are guilty here.

I appreciate the "some" you added though. And I hope you'll enjoy the album

 

[SmoothCollins]

Who is for a sub forum,

As the community is now divided perhaps this is the only way forward.

I really hope you know I love MJJC (I've been a member for almost 8 years) and that's why I'm saying this. As the owner, you're in a leadership position, and I can see that you're wanting to hear everyone out and do the right thing. :flowers:

Because of that, it dissappoints me to see you giving up a little hope and accepting division instead of being firm on how we can all have different opinions and be respectful of one another. (I can understand why you have though- you've put a ton of thought and effort into trying to make this a more positive place and people still keep being disrespectful).

People look to you for leadership and to make the best decision for the board.

I'm not meaning any disrespect or telling you what to do, and I hope you know that- I just thought you should know that your attitude has a big influence on others here because of your position. I know you were working hard for tolerance and respect, so I hope you keep the faith in that :flowers:


*hides* (I mean well, I promise :angel: )

 

[Kirshach]

Just one addition: posting things like 'you have to grow up', 'it's MJ, you, idiots', etc, you only inflame those fightings. Believers are not really better non-believers I must say...
I'm saying this for like 1000th time: just stop insulting each other. Let everybody have his own point of view. Stop blaming people who have a different opinion with you and don't reply to provocations.

 

[VCBabyMJfan]

Love please and hold eachother hands

 

[L.T.D]

I agree to a certain extent. That kind of talk should be restricted to the threads in which they are relevant.

Its not right to be talking about Cascio tracks being fake in threads to do with Hold My hand and Another Day. I may be guilty of this myself. But we should leave talk like that to the threads talking about the Cascio tracks. Like the Monster thread.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

You really think that MJ's music alone has the magical power of connecting people? Then you should welcome reality.

Would you say that to the face of Michael Jackson. You quiet clearly him saying just that in This Is IT, or at least that what he wants to do. This website wouldn't exist if that wasn't to a certain extent true, we have all been happily discussing michaels music for years now. As soon as some questionable tracks appear, the CONNECTED community starts to break, hmmm.... i'll say no more.

 

[SmoothCollins]

^^ I agree- I've met so many people I would have never met if it weren't for Michael. I have proof in my own life, so it is reality to me :flowers: My best friend (who means the world to me) is from another race, country, and religion- and we've been friends for almost 8 years because of meeting here actually.. Michael brought us together, and in times when we argue or fight it's Michael's music that reminds me how to behave better .

 

[billyblues]

Would you say that to the face of Michael Jackson. You quiet clearly him saying just that in This Is IT, or at least that what he wants to do. This website wouldn't exist if that wasn't to a certain extent true, we have all been happily discussing michaels music for years now. As soon as some questionable tracks appear, the CONNECTED community starts to break, hmmm.... i'll say no more.

Michael's intentions are not the same as reality, I'm sorry. Of course I wouldn't say it to his face because his intention is connecting people through his music.

But yes, I would say to MJ (and he knows how much I love him, so it's not like I would be trying to something that would hurt him) that it wouldn't just do it by itself when people themselves are to blame for their attitudes, as I said before. That was my point and next time PLEASE quote the entire context... People around here are not connected because of their attitudes towards the "fake or not" matter. Not because it isn't MJ or something (which was what the user I quoted led people to understand through her words). It's their attitude and lack of love. I actually think it is beautiful that michaelslady thinks like that... But reality is different, sadly.

And thanks Ben971 for understanding my post, anyway. That "some" you mentioned was there exactly with the intent you saw.
And Giant Enemy Cat: 90% of the doubters I saw (sorry for not mentioning it before) were trying to do one or both of the things I mentioned (especially trying to sound like "smart guys" in order to put people down and boost their e-penis/internet ego - which is very, very annoying may I say). I never said them all were doing it. I hope you'll understand now... I'm not saying that the believers are much better either, anyway. Just expressing my frustration towards the doubters based on my experience, in all honesty... As I mentioned, it's the first time I really feel my fun being spoiled by this kind of thing.

 

[love is magical]

^^Smooth Collins, thank you so much for your insightful posts. Very beautifully written. I agree with everything you said.

I am not a believer nor a doubter. I don't like the version of Breaking News streamed from michaeljackson.com. I never heard the leaked version of Monster or KYHU. Last night, when I heard the snippet of KYHU, I fell in love with it. So, I'm confused and don't know that to believe. However, I can totally understand why people have doubts. I understand where they are coming from. It's all from their passion on Michael's music. These people really want to guard his legacy.

So, if all of us who have different opinons stop rushing to judge and defend our position and start to consider more, we really have no need for sub-forums.

Like many have said earlier, the insults come from both sides. Many believers call doubters nasty names. For the one who expressed that their excitement and fun is spoiled, may I suggest you to take a step back and look at the current discussion as a debate? Just ignore the post that is disrespectful.

My excitement was gone in the past few weeks not because of what people said here, but because of what I heard from mj.com. Last night, when I heard the snippets, my excitement is coming back. Good music is good music. It doesn't matter what other said. Good music is wonderment to the heart and soul.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Michael's intentions are not the same as reality, I'm sorry. Of course I wouldn't say it to his face because his intention is connecting people through his music.

But yes, I would say to MJ (and he knows how much I love him, so it's not like I would be trying to something that would hurt him) that it wouldn't just do it by itself when people themselves are to blame for their attitudes, as I said before. That was my point and next time PLEASE quote the entire context... People around here are not connected because of their attitudes towards the "fake or not" matter. Not because it isn't MJ or something (which was what the user I quoted led people to understand through her words). It's their attitude and lack of love. I actually think it is beautiful that michaelslady thinks like that... But reality is different, sadly.

And thanks Ben971 for understanding my post, anyway. That "some" you mentioned was there exactly with the intent you saw.
And Giant Enemy Cat: 90% of the doubters I saw (sorry for not mentioning it before) were trying to do one or both of the things I mentioned (especially trying to sound like "smart guys" in order to put people down and boost their e-penis/internet ego - which is very, very annoying may I say). I never said them all were doing it. I hope you'll understand now... I'm not saying that the believers are much better either, anyway. Just expressing my frustration towards the doubters based on my experience, in all honesty... As I mentioned, it's the first time I really feel my fun being spoiled by this kind of thing.

Don't let it get you down. I'm a 'non believer'. But i'm not gonna try and force my opinion on you or anything. If you believe it to be Michael then thats great, i wish i could too i'm just terrified of the thought that it isn't and that i'm thinking it is, i'm sure the same is true opposite is true for the non believers. It's like one of life's many choices, do you go left or right? people have made their choice on these tracks, lets all move on from it, there is no point in trying to seperate the community, because in time it will fully heal again

 

[PCR]

Who is for a sub forum,

As the community is now divided perhaps this is the only way forward.

I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THE IDEA!!! In fact, Gaz, to be very honest, I think it is even offensive. Why on earth we all have to agree? And most of all, why if there are so many of us who have different opinions now have to say I AGREE to what the majority seems to say?

What is the idea of a forum if we are not allowed to have opinions and to share those opinions?

All that said, I think we must all try our best to express our opinions in a decent way. It is not nice when we call each other "fake fan" or "5 minute fan" just because we think/ we don't think some tracks include fake vocals.

I really don't see the point in dividing the community any more, for it is already quite divided and if you keep given space over and over again to censorship, you will get the same thing that all censhorship get: MORE PROMOTION TO THAT YOU ARE CENSORING.

How is it we can't disagree in a peaceful way? Sorry, but... why not?

:doh:

 

[PCR]

My excitement was gone in the past few weeks not because of what people said here, but because of what I heard from mj.com. Last night, when I heard the snippets, my excitement is coming back. Good music is good music. It doesn't matter what other said. Good music is wonderment to the heart and soul.

Same here.

I mean... sorry, "believers" (I can't believe we are using labels :no, do you think we really enjoy at all having doubts about this album?

How selfish from you, guys!!!! How selfish!!!!
Some of you must know I was there, almost every single day in the "Next album" thread, waiting for updates, waiting patiently. I was hating all the rumors about any "fake" tracks, I was there saying all the time that I didn't give a damn about rumors, for I just know for sure as soon as I heard the first line of the song... The day they released BN I SPENT THE NIGHT WAITING FOR IT!! It was 5 AM when it came....

... how do you think I felt? Do you think I jump out of joy and said "I knew, I knew it was not him!!!"?"

Sorry but... IT BROKE MY HEART!!! So many of you loooooveee so much saying you love Michael and loooveee saying "start with the man in the mirrow" and "heal the world" and "we are here for each other, we are family" and always "with L.O.V.E.".... why on earth for just one minute try to put in the place of us having doubts? We are not happy having doubts, guys. It hurts!!!

Again: we should not insult ANYONE if that person doesn't agree with us, whatever we think about those tracks.

 

[MJultimatemusiclegen]

Same here.

I mean... sorry, "believers" (I can't believe we are using labels :no, do you think we really enjoy at all having doubts about this album?

How selfish from you, guys!!!! How selfish!!!!
Some of you must know I was there, almost every single day in the "Next album" thread, waiting for updates, waiting patiently. I was hating all the rumors about any "fake" tracks, I was there saying all the time that I didn't give a damn about rumors, for I just know for sure as soon as I heard the first line of the song... The day they released BN I SPENT THE NIGHT WAITING FOR IT!! It was 5 AM when it came....

... how do you think I felt? Do you think I jump out of joy and said "I knew, I knew it was not him!!!"?"

Sorry but... IT BROKE MY HEART!!! So many of you loooooveee so much saying you love Michael and loooveee saying "start with the man in the mirrow" and "heal the world" and "we are here for each other, we are family" and always "with L.O.V.E.".... why on earth for just one minute try to put in the place of us having doubts? We are not happy having doubts, guys. It hurts!!!

Again: we should not insult ANYONE if that person doesn't agree with us, whatever we think about those tracks.

exactly, it was heartbreaking, the way some 'believers' are making out we enjoy this is pathetic and very immature. It's like going against you own morals to support those particular tracks and who wants to do that. Some non believers are also way out of line with their comments.

 

[kottur13]

exactly, it was heartbreaking, the way some 'believers' are making out we enjoy this is pathetic and very immature. It's like going against you own morals to support those particular tracks and who wants to do that. Some non believers are also way out of line with their comments.

I'm starting to realise that all this is down to misunderstanding and the emotion brought on with all this controversy. It seems like a lot of the "believers" are personally seeing so many of the disrespectful "doubters" (or the same small group of people doing it over and over again) that they think we're ALL like that. Up until last night, I was not aware that people were attacking the Cascios and God knows who else despite them having no reason to do so. That's just not on.

This thread is great because it's got rid of a lot of the friction. Go back to two - three days ago and the atmosphere in here was pretty hostile, but as we continued to debate and discuss, our motives and beliefs became more clear to each other. We're having much more civilised discussion and there are hardly any insults being thrown around. This is why we need a place where we can ALL post our opinions freely.

^ You're going to have to imagine that I posted this in the "Monster" thread, because that's where I mistakenly thought I was posting this. ;D