yaazgurl
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What do you mean? You don't think they've show enough for 2nd degree murder? I am surprised they are resting so soon however.
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Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread
- Thread starter ivy
- Start date
bouee
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can someone explain the legal stuff above please ? I'm sorry, I'm a bit lost
thanks
ruchie
Proud Member
That would be nice with no parole and he goes to a jail that would scare the beJesus out of him. You know there are MJ fans in jail......
Tell em one thang,Don't bother picking up the soap unless you really need it...:tease:.
elusive moonwalker
Guests
no more prosecution witnesses. you dont need the coroner to testify. its only the prelim.
its rare for the defence to call witnesses. by law the ycan do it but it doesnt happen much. the pros maybe had more witnesses but decided not to show them as they have already shown enough evidence for it to be sent to trial
The Lost Child
Proud Member
so if the prossecution doesn't call any witness and the defense as well, will we hear today if there will be trial?
elusive moonwalker
Guests
not sure. if it ended today i think the judge would take the weekend to look over things. how does it normally work? do they give a ruling within a matter of hours or do they go away and look through everything like a jurror
chernoff said it in some interview
The Lost Child
Proud Member
In Session
Alvarez says Murray invited her on a trip to England – Murray already told her that he was accompanying #MJ on the same trip.
Alvarez says Murray invited her on a trip to England – Murray already told her that he was accompanying #MJ on the same trip.
PCR
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:bugeyed
uke:naaa, not your fault, I know about your numbers confussion, but I got lost with the witness today and who said what and where we are now :scratch:
PrincessMichaela
Proud Member
Is court in session over the weekend or will it continue Monday (assuming it doesn't come to a conclusion today)? Pardon my ignorance. =/
ginvid;3180542 said:
I actually think it's the opposite. The 11.30 timeline is what the police came up with after looking at the evidence like the phone calls, etc. And the 10.40 timeline is from Murray's police interview (see the smokinggun link I posted). But that's just me guessing about the 11.30 timeline. Maybe Chernoff just "adopted" that one, since 10.40 am would mean he died possibly hours before the 911 call?
List of phone calls:
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3178246&postcount=11
AT&T employee:
10:29 am call from ? to Murray’s phone 22 minutes
So there was a call from an unknown number to Murray at about 10.30 am.
11:51 am a call placed from Murry to 3832 11 minutes.
And that's Murray calling girlfriend's number.
Sprint Nextel employee:
10:34 am from Murray to 3233 8 and a half minutes
Wrong number, but again at around 10.30 am.
Confusing.
PrincessMichaela
Proud Member
The Lost Child;3180554 said:
So, hold up...not knowing Murray was his doctor -_- (or anyone's doctor :smilerolleyes
, - she just thought her bf happened to have been invited overseas by Michael Jackson on his tour?! To....hang out? Nice.Trials and Tribulations is following Murray Prelim and they are taking detailed notes.They are also making updates from the court. They do not wish their full notes to be copied and posted so as they post a update I'll go through and make a summary here. If you want to read their full posts you can visit Trials and Tribulation website.
Bridget Morgan
- Morgan met Murray in 2003 at a club and has a social relationship with him. She called Murray on June 25th but didn't talk with him.
Nicole Alvarez
- Alvarez met Murray in 2005 at a club she works.
- She says Murray stays with her 2-3 nights and doesn't know where he is when he's not with her. "Well, I don’t have expectations of Dr. Murray, so that’s fair to say. That’s just a rule that i live by."
- She learns sometime that Murray is MJ's personal doctor (she's quite confused about when she learned it though).
- She says Murray would leave the house at 9-10PM and return between 7-10AM (although there wasn't a pattern).
- She was invited to go to England.
- She says Murray told her that packages will come to her house and asked her to just bring them inside. She says he didn't tell her the contents or say that they were important. She says she never opened any of the packages. She says she never asked about the packages (what they were for).
- She says as the packages were for Murray she didn't pay attention to the sender.
- Murray is staying with her now.
Bridget Morgan
- Morgan met Murray in 2003 at a club and has a social relationship with him. She called Murray on June 25th but didn't talk with him.
Nicole Alvarez
- Alvarez met Murray in 2005 at a club she works.
- She says Murray stays with her 2-3 nights and doesn't know where he is when he's not with her. "Well, I don’t have expectations of Dr. Murray, so that’s fair to say. That’s just a rule that i live by."
- She learns sometime that Murray is MJ's personal doctor (she's quite confused about when she learned it though).
- She says Murray would leave the house at 9-10PM and return between 7-10AM (although there wasn't a pattern).
- She was invited to go to England.
- She says Murray told her that packages will come to her house and asked her to just bring them inside. She says he didn't tell her the contents or say that they were important. She says she never opened any of the packages. She says she never asked about the packages (what they were for).
- She says as the packages were for Murray she didn't pay attention to the sender.
- Murray is staying with her now.
Milka;3180560 said:
The 10:40 one is definitely the one Chernoff said was false. The smoking gun is quoting from the Affidavit that was released from the police. That is the one Chernoff said was police conjecture and not given by Murray (yeah like they would just make that up).
I will look for some info about the 11:30 timeline. I will post it if I find it.
I trust the affidavit. That Murray and Chernoff want to make it disappear is not surprising. That's probably where the "I didn't have a watch" came from.
mthalen
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The 11:26 one was to a patient of his, Murray got the voicemail and left a message, listen to it here (the page says it's from 11:54, but in court they presumably said 11:26):
http://www.radaronline.com/videos#/66872310001
That doesn't sound like he had just killed MJ... So I think it's safe to assume that Murray found MJ during the 11:51-12:02 phonecall.
http://www.radaronline.com/videos#/66872310001
That doesn't sound like he had just killed MJ... So I think it's safe to assume that Murray found MJ during the 11:51-12:02 phonecall.
volitional
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The judge can decide there and then but given this is a high profile case it's likely he'll take some time in coming back with his decision. If the defence aren't going to provide any witnesses then I don't see why we won't get a decision by Monday.
Personally I don't understand why the DA went the preliminary hearing route, They would have gotten an indictment from a grand jury.They've shown so much evidence to the defence all the defence have to do is adapt their story and timeline with the prosecutions evidence.
Plus why couldn't they have charged Murray with two offences the 2nd Degree Murder and this lesser charge. They threw the book at Michael with every charge they could think off.
Ingelief
Proud Member
yeah and problaby death because he would not gave michael whild on the phone dont believe that so it was earlyer than that, so michael died alone..
this is what a believe after hearing the testimonys.. but whe have to wait for the time line thats in court. when is that exactly?
CNN In Session
The next witness is Bridgette Morgan. She met Murray at a club in 2002 and says they developed a 'social relationship'.
Nicole Alvarez is the next witness called. She says and Murray met around 2005 at a club in Las Vegas.
Alvarez says that she and Murray developed an ‘intimate relationship’ but she doesn’t recall if he told her that he was still married.
In March of 2009 Alvarez gave birth to Murray’s son.
Alvarez testifies Murray would sleep overnight at her apartment ‘quite frequently’…up to 2 weeks at a time.
Alvarez is unsure about the year she learned Conrad Murray was working for Michael Jackson.
Alvarez says Murray invited her on a trip to England – Murray already told her that he was accompanying MJ on the same trip.
Alvarez testifies on a few occasions Murray would tell her that some packages would be delivered for him to her apt.
Alvarez confirms that on several occasions, the shipper for the packages was Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas.
The next witness is Bridgette Morgan. She met Murray at a club in 2002 and says they developed a 'social relationship'.
Nicole Alvarez is the next witness called. She says and Murray met around 2005 at a club in Las Vegas.
Alvarez says that she and Murray developed an ‘intimate relationship’ but she doesn’t recall if he told her that he was still married.
In March of 2009 Alvarez gave birth to Murray’s son.
Alvarez testifies Murray would sleep overnight at her apartment ‘quite frequently’…up to 2 weeks at a time.
Alvarez is unsure about the year she learned Conrad Murray was working for Michael Jackson.
Alvarez says Murray invited her on a trip to England – Murray already told her that he was accompanying MJ on the same trip.
Alvarez testifies on a few occasions Murray would tell her that some packages would be delivered for him to her apt.
Alvarez confirms that on several occasions, the shipper for the packages was Applied Pharmacy Services in Las Vegas.
Justthefacts
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Seeing how Murray already spoke to the cops it would be kind of stupid to change the story. You saw how well that worked in 05
summer
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:lol:
Well, let's not forget that was Tom Sneddon with a vendetta and Janet "the Psycho" Arvizo we were talking about back then. Does anyone remember when they added the conspiracy and "holding at Neverland against their will" stuff to the charges? Maybe there will be charges added still in Murray's case too?
Maybe because Murray probably wasn't the only one she was sleeping with either? -_- :lol: :lol: But seriously....how can can you NOT KNOW when you became pregnant when you already HAVE your child??!!!! But like I assumed....she apparently is not the sharpest crayon in the box. :doh:
Besides...what witnesses could they possibly have that could in any way help Murray since EVERYONE who was there while it all went down have spoken AGAINST Murray saying he didn't give proper care...didn't monitor MJ... didn't call 911 right away...did CPR on the bed with one hand...hid bottles....didn't tell the EMTs nor the ER doctors what drugs exactly he had given to MJ....so WHAT witness could POSSIBLY help him...because that already was all the people who were there....including the girlfriend on the phone....The only witnesses they can call would be someone who'd be there to say "oh MJ was a drug addict"....but even that would not be wise because that would put Murray into a VERY bad situation once again...if he knew MJ had a drug problem...what was he then doing, giving him valium, etc. for weeks? And how can he leave him alone with an i.v. on his leg and the drugs next to his bed in that case? That woudl be Murray shooting into his own foot if he did that. Besides.....it's not enough that they just SAY Michael was addicted...this is the court....you have to PROVE it....also....this whole thing is because Michael DIED.....so....did he die because he overdose himself? No. And Murray will have a VERY hard time showing MJ could have injected himself. Why? First, because he himself has already admitted to having given Propofol. So the second you give that, you do NOT leave the patient...and he has admitted he left MJ alone for 2 minutes. Second, he did not have the equipment there that you need when giving Propofol. And let's not forget Murray has already admitted he gave Propofol for SIX WEEKS....and gave 50 mg and not 25 mg on the nights before. And he STILL didn't have the equipment there. So if they try to go and say "oh but I asked for the equipment but AEG didn't give it to me"....Well, first, that document was from the day before MJ died, if I remember correctly, so what was his plan for the six weeks before that when he was giving Propofol? Second, if you don't have the equipment, you DO NOT GIVE Propofol. THAT SIMPLE. And also, Murray saying that MJ just HAPPENED to wake up exactly when he was away...and let's not forget he said himself he was away 2 minutes MAX. So....show me someone who wakes up from sedation and is able to have the coordination to pull liquid from a vial into a syringe and has the ability to aim the syringe to the tiny connector on the i.v.....NOT LIKELY. So no matter what Murray tries....sorry..not gonna work, and it will all be equally damaging to himself.
:toofunny: :toofunny:
Oh this is good....if the prosecution can establish that Muray met all these women in a club and had sex with all of them....BECAUSE....wasn't there reports that Murray was seen in a strip club and drinking on the NIGHT he started treating MJ...June 24th/25th?!!! Wasn't there reports that one of the strippers said she saw him and is willing to testify. It should get interesting if that is indeed the case. And if they already have all these women saying he met them in a club....it would be easy to believe he was indeed in some strip club because he seems to have a habit of hanging out in those places, looking for women. :yes: I wonder how his oh so holy supporters back home in Texas from his church will feel about him then and how much they wanna support him after they hear he hangs out in strip clubs and has a woman in every city. :cheers:
And Alvarez not "remembering" anything and not knowing how much her rent is...not knowing what was in the packages....Yeah..sure....I wonder if they could imply she can be prosecuted too for having the Propofol in her house....if she would start remembering things then? :lol:
Last edited:
elusive moonwalker
Guests
defence are calling witnesses. and yeah i agree now about the GJ especially considering how much evidence the pros have shown. to me u need to show hardly anything show that murray was with mj when he got in trouble which murray has admitted to . show murray had the diprivan and thats about it.
Ingelief
Proud Member
from trials and tr.
When he was not there, where did he stay.? I do not know.
When he left your house you didn’t know where he stayed? (No.)
Nicole alvaraz..
This is just stupid he is the man of your child and when he is not with you you dont know where he is sleeps of lives???
When he was not there, where did he stay.? I do not know.
When he left your house you didn’t know where he stayed? (No.)
Nicole alvaraz..
This is just stupid he is the man of your child and when he is not with you you dont know where he is sleeps of lives???
Doctor's private life in the spotlight
Prosecutors put a spotlight on Dr. Conrad Murray’s complicated personal life Friday, summoning to the witness stand three mistresses –- two former and one current -- as they continued laying out evidence against the doctor in Michael Jackson’s death.
Only one of the women, the doctor’s current girlfriend, testified at length about him. But their testimony suggested that prosecutors may try link the financial costs of Murray’s romantic life with his desire to keep the $150,000-a-month job with the singer.
“When you began an intimate relationship with Dr Murray … were you aware he had six other children?” Deputy Dist. Atty. Deborah Brazil asked Nicole Alvarez, the mother of his toddler son.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor, who will determine whether there is enough evidence to try Murray for involuntary manslaughter, said the question was irrelevant and ordered Alvarez not to answer.
Murray, 57, is married to a medical-school classmate but has fathered children with several other women, including Alvarez, the mother of his 20-month-old son.
Murray was simultaneously dating another woman, Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding, and it was her testimony that bore most directly on Jackson’s death. She was on the phone with Murray around the time the doctor found the singer stricken in bed. She said he abruptly stopped responding to her comments.
“I just remember saying, ‘Hello, hello, hello! Are you there? Are you there,’” Anding recalled. She said she heard “a commotion, as if the phone was in a pocket or something,” followed by coughing and a “mumbling of voices” that she did not recognize.
She said she called Murray back and also texted him, but was unable to reach him.
Jackson died June 25, 2009 after going into cardiac arrest in a bedroom of his rented Holmby Hills home. The coroner determined that he died from a combination of the surgical anesthetic propofol and several sedatives.
Phone records indicate that Murray made 11 calls during the time that authorities say he should have been closely monitoring Jackson.
Bridgette Morgan, another former girlfriend, testified briefly that she had phoned Murray about a half-hour before Jackson stopped breathing, but did not reach him.
The most extensive testimony came from Alvarez, a 29-year-old actress who met Murray in 2005 when he was a customer at a Las Vegas “gentlemen’s club” where she worked.
Asked by Brazil asked if she knew the doctor, who lived in Las Vegas with his wife and children, was married when they met, she said she couldn’t remember. Later in her testimony, however, she said that Murray’s permanent residence was “in Las Vegas with his wife.”
She gave birth to their son in March 2009 and said she was planning to take the baby to London with Murray for Jackson’s planned concert stand at the O2 Arena.
Brazil produced packing slips showing six deliveries from a Las Vegas pharmacy -– the pharmacy from which Murray ordered propofol -- to the apartment where she lived and Murray paid the rent. She said Murray told her he was having packages shipped to the apartment, but she never opened the boxes or looked closely at the return address.
Alvarez said that she knew Murray left her apartment each night to treat Jackson, but that the physician told her “absolutely nothing” about those treatments.
“Dr. Murray and I were on a need-to-know basis. He’s a professional man and I know my position and my place in his life and it is not my duty to know” the details of his medical practice, she said.
Alvarez was a prickly and at times hostile witness for the prosecution, asking Brazil to repeat questions so often that the judge admonished her to pay better attention.
When the prosecutor asked about her expectations of Murray’s schedule while he was treating Jackson, she replied testily, “To begin with, I don’t have expectations of Dr. Murray, so I wouldn’t expect anything … that’s just a rule I live by.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...tors-private-life-in-spotlight-in-court-.html
Prosecutors put a spotlight on Dr. Conrad Murray’s complicated personal life Friday, summoning to the witness stand three mistresses –- two former and one current -- as they continued laying out evidence against the doctor in Michael Jackson’s death.
Only one of the women, the doctor’s current girlfriend, testified at length about him. But their testimony suggested that prosecutors may try link the financial costs of Murray’s romantic life with his desire to keep the $150,000-a-month job with the singer.
“When you began an intimate relationship with Dr Murray … were you aware he had six other children?” Deputy Dist. Atty. Deborah Brazil asked Nicole Alvarez, the mother of his toddler son.
Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor, who will determine whether there is enough evidence to try Murray for involuntary manslaughter, said the question was irrelevant and ordered Alvarez not to answer.
Murray, 57, is married to a medical-school classmate but has fathered children with several other women, including Alvarez, the mother of his 20-month-old son.
Murray was simultaneously dating another woman, Houston cocktail waitress Sade Anding, and it was her testimony that bore most directly on Jackson’s death. She was on the phone with Murray around the time the doctor found the singer stricken in bed. She said he abruptly stopped responding to her comments.
“I just remember saying, ‘Hello, hello, hello! Are you there? Are you there,’” Anding recalled. She said she heard “a commotion, as if the phone was in a pocket or something,” followed by coughing and a “mumbling of voices” that she did not recognize.
She said she called Murray back and also texted him, but was unable to reach him.
Jackson died June 25, 2009 after going into cardiac arrest in a bedroom of his rented Holmby Hills home. The coroner determined that he died from a combination of the surgical anesthetic propofol and several sedatives.
Phone records indicate that Murray made 11 calls during the time that authorities say he should have been closely monitoring Jackson.
Bridgette Morgan, another former girlfriend, testified briefly that she had phoned Murray about a half-hour before Jackson stopped breathing, but did not reach him.
The most extensive testimony came from Alvarez, a 29-year-old actress who met Murray in 2005 when he was a customer at a Las Vegas “gentlemen’s club” where she worked.
Asked by Brazil asked if she knew the doctor, who lived in Las Vegas with his wife and children, was married when they met, she said she couldn’t remember. Later in her testimony, however, she said that Murray’s permanent residence was “in Las Vegas with his wife.”
She gave birth to their son in March 2009 and said she was planning to take the baby to London with Murray for Jackson’s planned concert stand at the O2 Arena.
Brazil produced packing slips showing six deliveries from a Las Vegas pharmacy -– the pharmacy from which Murray ordered propofol -- to the apartment where she lived and Murray paid the rent. She said Murray told her he was having packages shipped to the apartment, but she never opened the boxes or looked closely at the return address.
Alvarez said that she knew Murray left her apartment each night to treat Jackson, but that the physician told her “absolutely nothing” about those treatments.
“Dr. Murray and I were on a need-to-know basis. He’s a professional man and I know my position and my place in his life and it is not my duty to know” the details of his medical practice, she said.
Alvarez was a prickly and at times hostile witness for the prosecution, asking Brazil to repeat questions so often that the judge admonished her to pay better attention.
When the prosecutor asked about her expectations of Murray’s schedule while he was treating Jackson, she replied testily, “To begin with, I don’t have expectations of Dr. Murray, so I wouldn’t expect anything … that’s just a rule I live by.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...tors-private-life-in-spotlight-in-court-.html
rita.gibson
Proud Member
Did Erin say that if they had gone the grand jury route they would have got their indictment but wouldn't have been able to up the charges,
I'm sure I recall her saying this can anyone verify please?
I'm sure I recall her saying this can anyone verify please?
PaceMioDolceCuore
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ivy;3180602 said:
Oh my God, these quotes, between her and Murray, good God. :bugeyed