Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread

[Ingelief]

new update trial and tribulations about day 2

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/

 

[sophie]

i wrote:
i also wonder whether murray always gave a second propofol bolus when mj was waking up, and he messed it up on june 25 because he was distracted by his gf and gave the bolus too fast. this would also explain why he had a propofol bolus ready at hand when he realized mj was coughing and waking up.

response:
here we go, we kinda find excuses for Murray... these explanations of Murray 'miatakes' can be used by his defense... lawyers are reading....

the defence wont admit this. if murray admitted to administering propofol in a rapid bolus injection while being on the phone with his girlfriend + not bother to have resuscitation equipment ready + all the other stuff he did like not calling 911 immediately or hiding evidence (which can be proved by independent eyewitness testimony) this case would be as well as over. murray would admit he's guilty of the charge he's accused of.

 

[Justthefacts]

A witness from out of town? I wonder if it is Doctor David Adams?

 

[Autumn II]

A witness from out of town? I wonder if it is Doctor David Adams?

I've read that Murray's two assistants from Houston have been called to testify. The ones who were called to remove items from the storage locker. Could be them?

I'd like to make a suggestion, that hopefully will keep the thread running smoothly for its purpose? For those who still want to theorize about the more detailed medical information, there is a "Medical Experts" thread where that conversation is ongoing. (propofol levels are being discussed in that thread, among other things.) I, for one, want to focus here on the testimony today! Thanks.

Medical experts opinions about the case and medical informationhttp://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95374

 

[ginvid]

Can every one please calm down here?

I don't recall anyone here being a medical expert. So there is no need for someone to act as if they have all of the answers. You don't. You have conjecture and what you think is the most probable scenario.

If you think you know something, and ou have more knowledge than some, don't get upset or act condescendingly if someone needs an explanation. We are ALL here to try to understand what is going on because we want justice for MJ. To that end, we can all be a bit more gracious and understanding towards one another.

We can all remember that we are all trying to understand what went on. So some are saying what they think happened based on how they see the evidence. That means we all have to decide what information we will accept. Please do your own research and do not take as fact what may or may not be.

Also, TBH this thread is really not for scenarios about what we think happened. We have other threads for that. this thread is to try to comprehend the testimony being presented for that day. So please let's keep this thread relegated to just this.

Thanks!

 

[Cookie Monzter]

Look, Summer is an RN, and I have a Ph.D.,and it's too technical for US! There will be expert testimony at the trial, NO doubt. There is no possible way to come to any pharmacological conclusions here, about how much propofol was administered, and we really are going to have to wait for the trial to get enough info to make any judgments on that.

I agree. There are too many factors here that we don't know and will be necessary to calculate an accurate estimate of the total amount of propofol administered. It is not as simple as calculating differences in concentrations in liquids which can be figured out based on examples in other people. As already mentioned, there are many things influencing the concentration of propofol in urine that one would find starting with simple things like the differences in the kidney function of each individual, how well hydrated/dehydrated they were and more complicated factors like drug interactions. All of these things, and others, affect how a drug is cleared from the body and comes out in the urine.

If the experts come to the same conclusion, then great. I'm sure there will be experts testifying on these issues in the actual trial, we can discuss it with more certainty then. But I don't think we should take these as facts at the moment. I am a doctor and I wouldn't be happy to estimate these numbers either, based on the limited information we have.

 

[Love.him]

No one here said he did. I don't know why you made this comment.

Michael did not die from not feeling well.

Maybe you felt that way, but I don't see anyone else doing that. It should be looked into b/c it might show negligence on Murray's part. If Michael said he wanted to go to a hospital he should have been taken to one. Nothing wrong with making sure everything was OK.

Excellent. Thank you for reminding us of that. For a moment we were all lost in speculating about why A or B did not bring Michael to the hospital. We had forgotten that Michael was killed during night/early morning by the hands of Murray.