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Preliminary Hearing 7/1/11 Day Four. Discussion thread

Maybe Michael kept telling Kenny and others he was fine and eveything was under control. They didn't live with him and see what was going on with Murray. I wouldn't be surprised if they feel bad now that they noticed something and realized they could have done something to help Michael.
 
summer said:
If he would have askd me to do it, I would have tied him into his bed
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You are sure that would be the only reason u doing that..... :naughty: ::girl_whistle: :p
sorry thouht id try and lighten the mood here
 
Marlon did not speak to Michael. Marlon said he talked to Frank Dileo and Frank told Marlon that Michael told him he wasn't feeling well that night and Frank said he went home and he had no idea what happened after Michael got home. Marlon was asking Frank what was going on with Michael after MJ was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead.
 
Autumn II said:
Look, Summer is an RN, and I have a Ph.D.,and it's too technical for US! There will be expert testimony at the trial, NO doubt. There is no possible way to come to any pharmacological conclusions here, about how much propofol was administered, and we really are going to have to wait for the trial to get enough info to make any judgments on that.

Yes, I remember that Marlon said that. I hope ALL that is looked into, very carefully.
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I like to understand and thinking about how a jury would understand all this. All this information feels over my head.
 
8701girl said:
You are sure that would be the only reason u doing that..... :naughty: ::girl_whistle: :p
sorry thouht id try and lighten the mood here
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To be honest, that is what MJ needed.. He needed some caring woman with some tender love and care to take care of him. Being pumped with sedatives and propofol was not the answer. Mike needed love and caring. Someone to make sure he was fed well and taken care of. He didn't have that.
 
StacyJ said:
Marlon did not speak to Michael. Marlon said he talked to Frank Dileo and Frank told Marlon that Michael told him he wasn't feeling that night and Frank said he went home and he had no idea what happened after Michael got home. Marlon was asking Frank what was going on with Michael after MJ was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead.
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That is what I must have read or heard. I couldn't remember exactly thanks.
 
StacyJ said:
Marlon did not speak to Michael. Marlon said he talked to Frank Dileo and Frank told Marlon that Michael told him he wasn't feeling well that night and Frank said he went home and he had no idea what happened after Michael got home. Marlon was asking Frank what was going on with Michael after MJ was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead.
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Yeah, I remember that's what Marlon said. That it came from Frank. Wonder if Frank will be called to testify?
 
8701girl....:doh: :lol: :lol: You're too much! :lol: :lol:

StacyJ said:
To be honest, that is what MJ needed.. He needed some caring woman with some tender love and care to take care of him. Being pumped with sedatives and propofol was not the answer. Mike needed love and caring. Someone to make sure he was fed well and taken care of. He didn't have that.
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Now, THAT he could have "hired" me for!! :D No, wait....:scratch: That would make me sound like one of Murray's women. :bugeyed :lol: Let me re-phrase that...I would have gladly spent time with him and made sure he is okay and healthy. :wub: (And he would not have needed to pay anything either..."All the women who independent"...:cheers::lol:).
 
Geraldo Rivera's show is on now and he will be talking about the hearing later on...in case anyone here wants to catch it or record it.
 
StacyJ said:
Marlon did not speak to Michael. Marlon said he talked to Frank Dileo and Frank told Marlon that Michael told him he wasn't feeling well that night and Frank said he went home and he had no idea what happened after Michael got home. Marlon was asking Frank what was going on with Michael after MJ was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead.
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But Travis said that night Michael was in rear form and seemed extra happy. He danced and sang as he never did before. now Frank is saying Michael said he was unwell. What is going on here.
 
If Frank knew that Michael wasn't feeling well, he should have come up to the house or called an ambulance and gotten Michael to the hospital. If Michael had requested to go to the hospital, why didn't anybody take him? I just don't understand that. He would still be alive right now if somebody had gotten him checked out. This is all enraging, stupid and sad. I still can't believe it.
 
Justthefacts said:
Michael did not die from not feeling well.
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Excellent. Thank you for reminding us of that. For a moment we were all lost in speculating about why A or B did not bring Michael to the hospital. We had forgotten that Michael was killed during night/early morning by the hands of Murray.
 
summer said:
Right. :mello: Whatever. :mello: I love people who have no medical background but act like experts. Always love them at the hospital too especially when they try to tell us how to take care of patients because they read "this and that" in the internet, so of course they know everything better than us. After all...we only went to nursing school or medical school and have years of experience...but they researched in the INTERNET...so...of course they are smarter and know everything better than we do. Don't mind me. I'm only a RN....Carry on then. :mello:
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Fair enough. When the coroner's expert testifies MJ did not receive anything exceeding 200mg that day. what are you going to say?


By the way Falagan already said the levels in MJ were "huge" near 150mg:smilerolleyes: , and his client only gave 25mg.So their expert told them that, or maybe Murray himself. When he said that? the hearing to retest the fluids.
 
Soundmind said:
Fair enough. When the coroner's expert testifies MJ did not receive anything exceeding 200mg that day. what are you going to say?


By the way Falagan already said the levels in MJ were "huge" near 150mg:smilerolleyes: , and his client only gave 25mg.So their expert told them that, or maybe Murray himself. When he said that? the hearing to retest the fluids.
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Whatever the coroner testifies is fine with me. I asked you to post links to where you got the quotes from. And only asked (and still ask) you to not start posting blood/urine levels and say "it is this because of that" unless you have the medical expertise. Let the experts do that. Period.
 
Soundmind said:
Fair enough. When the coroner's expert testifies MJ did not receive anything exceeding 200mg that day. what are you going to say?


By the way Falagan already said the levels in MJ were "huge" near 150mg:smilerolleyes: , and his client only gave 25mg.So their expert told them that, or maybe Murray himself. When he said that? the hearing to retest the fluids.
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Don't know about Summer, but I'm going to say I waited for expert testimony to make a judgment about that. Murray's team will have experts, and the DA will have experts, and they probably won't agree. There was NOTHING in the autopsy report about how much was administered, so we'll wait for the experts to reveal what they have calculated about that. Because WE, here, certainly don't know, and have no way to know without knowing all the variables (that I mentioned in an earlier post.)

I would hardly trust Murray's statement about how much he gave, given the lack of veracity so far. . . . and we don't know WHO that statement was based on. So, I'll wait for testimony.

Gearing up for tomorrow's testimony, now.
 
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but also you cant compare cases with each other without the background. Also the calc you make is from a amount of urine that is so high i believe because the were trying to revive him and pumped alot of fluids in him.. so maybe.. u have to calculate it with a lower amount of ml of urine.

And also if you look at the cases the urine is the lowest but the blood is more like another case.. so why is there a different? comparable bloodlevels but no comparable urine levels?

i hope the experts are going to explain it..

i only have two years of lab education and i find it very difficult so i agree with summer here
 
Ingelief said:
And also if you look at the cases the urine is the lowest but the blood is more like another case.. so why is there a different? comparable bloodlevels but no comparable urine levels?
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I just looked at it again after reading your post - you know, you could also interpret it as ... high in blood, low in urine - short survival time, low(er) in blood, high(er) in urine - long(er) survival time.

Bottom line - we have no idea what we are talking about, including Soundmind. This is going nowhere.
 
Does anyone have the TMZ story where they listed the drugs the coroner investigator found Michael's house?
 
Bottom line - we have no idea what we are talking about, including Soundmind. This is going nowhere.
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Talk about yourself please, you don't understan, it's not my problem, period.


Justthefacts :
TMZ:
- 3 - 10 mg/ml 1% lydocaine vials (2 empty, 1 3/4 full)
- 1 empty bottle propofol 200 mg
- 1 pulse monometer
-1 empty vial lorazepam 4 mg
- 2 empty vials midazolam 10mg
- 1 empty vial propofol 1g/100ml
- 1 black nylon bag
- 1 dark blue costco bag
- 1 light blue canvas bag
- 1 pill bottle with 13 tablets containing 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, 80 mg aspirin
- 4 vials propofol 200mg/20ml
- 2 vials 5 mg flumazenil
- 1 vial lorazepam
- 1 vial lidocane
- 200mg vials of propofol (1 full, 1 1/4 full)
- 1 empty bag I.V. drip of sodium chloride with syringe
- 1 ziplock baggy containing 18 tubes of Benoquin

Note that one of the items seized was a canvas bag. Bodyguard Alberto Alvarez told cops Dr. Murray told him to put vials of propofol in a plastic bag and put that bag in a canvas bag
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This is the coroner's report with the evidence collected from the house:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

If you read what was in mentioned in the coroner's report you will find TMZ were incorrect about many things


Propofol 3- 100ml vials
Propofol 8- 20ml vials
Lidocaine 6- 30ml vials

Flemazinel 4-5ml vials

Lorazepam 2 -4ml vials

Lorazepam 1 - 10ml vial

Midazolam 5 -10ml vials
 
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Soundmind said:
Talk about yourself please, you don't understan, it's not my problem, period.
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Stop being condescending! Enough already. You basically ruined a perfectly peaceful thread with your attacks. It's not like everybody but you in here is an idiot.
 
I was attacked first. You said: "we have no idea what we are talking about, including Soundmind"


How do you know that?
 
Soundmind said:
I was attacked first. You said: "we have no idea what we are talking about, including Soundmind"


How do you know that?
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That wasn't an attack - see the "we". That was an observation based on the fact that one can read just the opposite into the examples that you have given. Which means, nobody knows.

Also, do you want me to show you your posts attacking other people in the last few days? I'll just try to do my best to not reply to your posts anymore, you don't want a discussion, you want to force your theory on people and if they don't agree with you, you basically call them stupid. Trying to discuss things with you doesn't make any sense. You have a theory that you believe in, most other people in here are actually trying to discuss the hearing and, like I said before, are trying to piece the puzzle together from what is said in the hearing.
 
sophie said:
i have the same theory regarding murray using benzos to keep mj sedated over the night, and use propofol only for "show effect" to induce sleep. i was posting this here last year when we discussed the autopsy report.

i also wonder whether murray always gave a second propofol bolus when mj was waking up, and he messed it up on june 25 because he was distracted by his gf and gave the bolus too fast. this would also explain why he had a propofol bolus ready at hand when he realized mj was coughing and waking up.
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here we go, we kinda find excuses for Murray... these explanations of Murray 'miatakes' can be used by his defense... lawyers are reading....
 
StacyJ said:
To be honest, that is what MJ needed.. He needed some caring woman with some tender love and care to take care of him. Being pumped with sedatives and propofol was not the answer. Mike needed love and caring. Someone to make sure he was fed well and taken care of. He didn't have that.
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Yep i totally agree with u
 
summer said:
8701girl....:doh: :lol: :lol: You're too much! :lol: :lol:



Now, THAT he could have "hired" me for!! :D No, wait....:scratch: That would make me sound like one of Murray's women. :bugeyed :lol: Let me re-phrase that...I would have gladly spent time with him and made sure he is okay and healthy. :wub: (And he would not have needed to pay anything either..."All the women who independent"...:cheers::lol:).
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Hey what can i say its mj :naughty:

:bugeyed UGH! nooooo u dont wanna sound like one off murray's women, that would be so totally wrongtown!
 
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