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Preliminary Hearing 10/1/11. Day Five. Discussion Thread

The Lost Child said:
so maybe Murray wasn't flushing it down the toilet but I don't know...?
I can't imagine, he couldn't think to give Michael 15 litters of propofol, could he?
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I can't IMAGINE that he was flushing it down the toilet! I mean, I highly doubt Michael was counting vials in boxes, and doing a running tally? That would be incredibly strange! Why would he even THINK to do that? Makes no sense to me. And why would Murray order so many boxes? He could just have the same one out, as if it was a new one all the time?

I think he gave Michael EXACTLY that much propofol, and that's totally outrageous!
 
AllForLove said:
This kind of things could be paid with a personal card when they are supposed being shipped for a clinic ? weird :scratch:
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Not personal- as a business you could open an American Express account for your company. That's done all the time. Or maybe he did use a personal card. I'm just speculating. Many businesses in the US (CLINICS!) do their business with credit cards and order and pay their bills this way- that is absolutely not unheard of in any medical setting in the US.

Especially in private practice.

Automated payments and "transfers" and deduction from a checking account are in it's infancy in the US. Europe for example functions completely different. I nearly fell over when I realized how many people still send physical, personal checks around and how businesses (!) pay with company credit cards and checks. (that can bounce...)
 
StaceyMJ said:
Why would Murray need to buy those quantities to flush it down the toilet? All he would need is a full bottle or however many he would need to make it look convincing, and an empty one (or the same amount again).
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Of COURSE! He would have absolutely no need for those quantities. Now, the neurological symptoms reported to nurse Lee make a LOT more sense. I don't think anyone can withstand daily anesthesia, for months, without adverse effects. This feels like the twilight zone!
 
twinklEE said:
no he claimed it was his clinic's address although it was his baby mama's. the pharmacy didn't double check to see if that was indeed a clinic or not. ?
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Preposterous! I just cannot believe that was allowed to happen.
 
I'm thinking maybe he was buying all the propofol in advance for the UK? Cuz him getting prop there was extremely unlikely? Idk just guessing :dunno:
 
twinklEE said:
no he claimed it was his clinic's address although it was his baby mama's. the pharmacy didn't double check to see if that was indeed a clinic or not. ?
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That's what I said, Murray told Lopez that it was a clinic :) one more lie
 
twinklEE said:
I'm thinking maybe he was buying all the propofol in advance for the UK? Cuz him getting prop there was extremely unlikely? Idk just guessing :dunno:
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He would have had to go through customs, and that would have been a problem. The laws/regulations on prescription meds are quite strict, I think?
 
Autumn II said:
Of COURSE! He would have absolutely no need for those quantities. Now, the neurological symptoms reported to nurse Lee make a LOT more sense. I don't think anyone can withstand daily anesthesia, for months, without adverse effects. This feels like the twilight zone!
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Yep, I mean how would anyone even know the effects this would have on such an intense schedule of dosages. I doubt it's even been done before it's that ludicrous.
 
StaceyMJ said:
Yep, I mean how would anyone even know the effects this would have on such an intense schedule of dosages. I doubt it's even been done before it's that ludicrous.
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I think you are quite right. I very much doubt that this has EVER been done before. Even a seriously burned patient who must have frequent surgeries, doesn't have THAT MANY consecutive anesthesias! That would cause all sorts of havoc.

I think we can pretty much discount that he "flushed it down the toilet," so were IS the rest of the propofol, if he didn't use it? Did anyone search his girlfriend's house? I think it ALL went into Michael, and that is outrageous!
 
Autumn II said:
He would have had to go through customs, and that would have been a problem. The laws/regulations on prescription meds are quite strict, I think?
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oh right, i totally forgot customs, your right it would have been hard/impossible for him to get that quantity through customs.
That's what I said, Murray told Lopez that it was a clinic :) one more lie
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oh ok, I misunderstood you then, I thought you said he let it delivery to a clinik :flowers:
 
Pace said:
That's actually cheap compared to what he would normally charge his patients as a Cardiologist.

Who knows whom he supplied on the side? Maybe that was some kind of business start up plan? Wouldn't be the first Doctor who deals with the power of his prescription pad.
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Yeah, shockingly cheap. It's around the price of a vial of insulin in the US. As for the propofol side-business... I doubt it, but at the same time I don't think we could discount anything with this guy at this point. :doh: I read or saw before that some folks in the medical profession abuse propofol, little bits at a time.
 
twinklEE said:
I'm thinking maybe he was buying all the propofol in advance for the UK? Cuz him getting prop there was extremely unlikely? Idk just guessing :dunno:
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That's a possibility. Laws in the UK are a lot stricter than in the US as drugs are more tightly regulated over here.
 
The 19th witness to take the stand is Jaime Lintemoot, a senior criminalist at the LA County Coroner’s Office.
 
He wouldn't be able to get propofol through customs though... No way. I hope the prosecution calls cherilyn lee to testify that murray told michael propofol was safe. I think it's very obvious now that mj was suffering side effects of all that propofol on the 19th. Murray wasn't trying to wean mj off the propofol because he was worried he was becoming addicted he was freaking out because it was making him ill and he couldn't get away with it for much longer. Greedy idiot.
 
Customs for bringing drugs into the UK isn't actually as strict as you might think. Normally it's just a case of having the necessary paperwork and as he's a doctor he could easily get that. I will look into it at work tomorrow as we deal with customs issues a lot.
 
StaceyMJ said:
Why would Murray need to buy those quantities to flush it down the toilet? All he would need is a full bottle or however many he would need to make it look convincing, and an empty one (or the same amount again).
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because his game required he bring vials daily, un opened vials , and when mj would woke up empty vials needed to be there also so MJ would not doubt what was going on .


130- 1000mg = 130000mg , 200mg to maintain sedation for 30 minutes , make your calculations that alone means Murray sedated MJ for 13.5 days for 24 hours .

That's only the 100ml propofol. we did not talk about lorazepam and midazolam and the smaller propofol vials.

Does that make any sense to you ?

By the way the male chef who worked in May said he saw Murray taking MJ's credit card all the time , and he bodyguards also. He said everyone ws stealing from him
 
Sophielo said:
That's a possibility. Laws in the UK are a lot stricter than in the US as drugs are more tightly regulated over here.
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Yeah, that's the funny thing is the US...you and your oral contraception will be treated like criminals on the loose when trying to enter the US (tourists are seriously advised to bring prescriptions for their regular medications when coming into the US...countless High School Exchange students fought hard to bring their antibabypill stash for an entire year into the US, only to be questioned...:hysterical:- but once you're past US customs, feel free to buy the 500 family pack of Ibuprofen in the next store on sale.

From experience traveling into the European Union and US customs- US customs are a lot trickier.

Having said that, I still don't see how he planned to either get the Propofol past customs, or how he wanted to acquire it there. (besides Miss Etoks claims)
 
He wouldn't be able to get propofol through customs though
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they would have had a huge amount of luggage etc.and theres the issue if they would have even be stopped and searched. would have been unlucky if they would have found it

etok claimed she was getting the stuff for mj in the uk.
 
Autumn II said:
He would have had to go through customs, and that would have been a problem. The laws/regulations on prescription meds are quite strict, I think?
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At first I thought that too, maybe in advance for UK ... although that quantity (or treating insomnia with it) is insane. But yeah, then I thought he probably wouldn't get it through customs.
 
ivy;3185584 said:
The 19th witness to take the stand is Jaime Lintemoot, a senior criminalist at the LA County Coroner’s Office.
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CNN In Session

Lintemoot analyzed samples of Michael Jackson’s blood for the presence of propofol

Ivy's note: My understanding that she went over propofol amounts found in different samples, tissues and organs and how they did the tests, what they have tested or not tested.
 
You seem to forget the most fundamental of all! During the This Is It preparations we used to see Michael almost on a daily basis going out shopping with the kids, going for his skin treatment and so on. No man can move around if he is given so much propofol. We seem to forget those days that Michael was all around walking and talking! Dr. Death ordered the amounts but surely didn't give it.
There is another possibility that we haven't thought yet. Maybe Dr. Death was "treating" other "patients" with propofol as well...
I'm a million per cent sure that Murray isn't a doctor anyway!
 
TMZ

Did Michael Jackson Drink Propofol???

Michael Jackson may have drank himself to death by consuming a juice box laced with Propofol -- at least that's what Conrad Murray's defense team suggested in court today.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, was questioning a Senior Criminalist from the L.A. County Coroner's Office about the 70 grams of fluid found in MJ's stomach at the time of the autopsy ... fluid that tested positive for traces of Propofol.

Flanagan noted the presence of a juice box on MJ's nightstand ... and asked if it had been tested for Propofol ... raising the possibility that MJ was sippin' on the anesthetic shortly before he died.

The criminalist testified he had not tested the juice box.

So what's Flanagan's point? He might be suggesting that MJ was secretly self-administering his Propofol ... which would support Murray's defense theory that MJ accidentally caused his own overdose.
 
US customs wouldn't be an issue as it would be leaving the country. It would be the UK that would be the issue and I'd love to know what Murray's brainless plan for that was. Regardless though it would be near enough impossible to get propofol like that once in the UK.
 
ivy;3185597 said:
CNN In Session

Lintemoot analyzed samples of Michael Jackson’s blood for the presence of propofol

Ivy's note: My understanding that she went over propofol amounts found in different samples, tissues and organs and how they did the tests, what they have tested or not tested.
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wonder if the Loz and the = marks will get clarifyed
 
ivy said:
TMZ

Did Michael Jackson Drink Propofol???

Michael Jackson may have drank himself to death by consuming a juice box laced with Propofol -- at least that's what Conrad Murray's defense team suggested in court today.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, was questioning a Senior Criminalist from the L.A. County Coroner's Office about the 70 grams of fluid found in MJ's stomach at the time of the autopsy ... fluid that tested positive for traces of Propofol.

Flanagan noted the presence of a juice box on MJ's nightstand ... and asked if it had been tested for Propofol ... raising the possibility that MJ was sippin' on the anesthetic shortly before he died.

The criminalist testified he had not tested the juice box.

So what's Flanagan's point? He might be suggesting that MJ was secretly self-administering his Propofol ... which would support Murray's defense theory that MJ accidentally caused his own overdose.
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:doh::mello: deary me they really are desperate. just when u think they couldnt come up with any more stupi reasons they do
 
By the way the male chef who worked in May said he saw Murray taking MJ's credit card all the time , and he bodyguards also. He said everyone ws stealing from him
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This is just sad man, this is just extremely sad, and I'm sure it's always been this way, ppl, employees, friends, earlier family stealing from him
I'm also positive that the propofol was billed on Michael's card. I'm sure Murray misused that too.
 
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