Preliminary Hearing 10/1/11. Day Five. Discussion Thread

[elusive moonwalker]

they found lidocaine also in his stomach .lol

well i guess he drank that aswell :tease::doh:

 

[Petrarose]

the CPR ruptured his stomach and it went in from there.. also he had drunk it it would be found in his mouth and throat

No doubt the medical experts will inform this idiot of this^^during the trial. However, I am sure the defense will come up with another theory.

 

[izilda]

One thing that bothers me about this Prelimenary Hearing is that the "Money" is not being followed or discussed. The D.A. should realize that "Money" is the motive for this crime, and the "Root of all Evil".
I don't believe in the series of accidents theory. :no:

I agree

 

[Ingelief]

I'm thinking maybe he was buying all the propofol in advance for the UK? Cuz him getting prop there was extremely unlikely? Idk just guessing :dunno:

how does he wanted to get it in the plane? i though thats not possible? illegal so many meds? certainly in the uk there strict rules about it

 

[StaceyMJ]

I don't think Murray was treating other patients with propofol. I also don't think he was treating MJ with that much propofol. i think we do have to remember that Mj was going out. Even at rehearsals he did not seem out of it.
If Murray bought only one vial that he continously recycled, how could he account for what he gave MJ? Meaning, if he submitted a bill to MJ for supplies, or an accounting of the propofol being done, if only one vial was present, then how could he explain that? He had to keep up appearances.

Also, propofol leaves you groggy, MJ does not appear to be that way when we see him in TII or when we see him walking around (there was talk of him being groggy when coming from Klein's office). As said from members, you are not supposed to eat before having propofol, but according to Kai's testimony, it was noticeable that MJ had not eaten that particulsr night, showing this was not a pattern for him.

And, if a person needs a bit to "awaken" from the effects of propofol, then why would he be asking for it so late in the day that morning? When by accounts. MJ should have been getting ready to leave for practice?

I think this whole propofol story is a red herring. And if MJ did drink propofol, there is what happened with the propofol instead of Murray flushing it down the toilet, He was lacing his drinks with it.

This is just me trying to put things together and understand what happened here. I think Murray and this whole propofol story is FOS. IMHO.

OK, but if Michael was under the impression he was under propofol on other occasions as well then surely he wouldn't have eaten those nights either?

 

[chanel05]

I'm thinking maybe he was buying all the propofol in advance for the UK? Cuz him getting prop there was extremely unlikely? Idk just guessing :dunno:

He would have had to go through customs, and that would have been a problem. The laws/regulations on prescription meds are quite strict, I think?

i know im late....
idk if this is true but i remember hearing that mj was looking for doctors and such to either give or supply him propofol over there... i also dont think that would have made it on a plane either, so this could be true

 

[xthunderx2]

unless Michael didn't KNOW he was drink propofol....Murray could of put it in the drink box himself.....I know conspiracy theory..but I had to throw it out there

 

[elusive moonwalker]

etok.....

i know im late....
idk if this is true but i remember hearing that mj was looking for doctors and such to either give or supply him propofol over there... i also dont think that would have made it on a plane either, so this could be true

 

[athina_livadi]

Michael was with his kids shopping and walking and going to rehearsals and he was fine! Not to mention all the production procedures for This Is It back in those days! He was hands down to everything concerning his art and whatever accompanied it! The kids were with him almost in his every walk out!

 

[PCR]

I) Resuscitative transmural hemorrhage of stomach .
transmural hemorrhage of stomach : a hemorrhage of the wall of the stomach causes blood circulating the body to abnormally spill into the stomach. In other words propofol and lidocaine were in the blood and when the blood spilled into the stomach due to the resuscitation attempts they found traces of propofol and lidocaine in his stomach

Poor Michael...

 

[bouee]

they found lidocaine also in his stomach .lol

:hysterical::clapping:

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

they found lidocaine also in his stomach .lol

Yeah, well, MJ's supposed to be superhuman from the very beginning. Most of us wouldn't be standing with all these benzos. Apparently MJ not only can take buckets of that- no, he can also self-inject and kindly wait with passing out until all went through- no, he can also stomach lidocaine and propofol drinks. It's probably by the great power of telekinesis that any of the medication ended up in Michael. Sorta flew through the air and just conveniently landed in Michael.

What's next?

Don't forget that Conrad Murray is either a magician, or just really the crunchy-earthy type who can monitor someone's vital signs without technology- in a dark room, no less.

He also knows how to pinpoint east/west/south/north and the setting sun- to know how to drive to an unknown address to be at work on time- all without a watch.

It's probably the Swami that Michael brought in for the Smooth Criminal lean. :cheeky:

Next, we will see a revival of a really old theory that's not so popular anymore: The Butler/Gardener did it.

 

[PCR]

Michael was with his kids shopping and walking and going to rehearsals and he was fine! Not to mention all the production procedures for This Is It back in those days! He was hands down to everything concerning his art and whatever accompanied it! The kids were with him almost in his every walk out!

Well... fans around him during his last 8 months have a very different opinion of the way he looked the last 20 days, especially the last 2 weeks. He was also spending a lot of time at Klein's, up to 4-5 hours. And that is not conspiracy theory, that's a fact, I am afraid

 

[Petrarose]

Michael was with his kids shopping and walking and going to rehearsals and he was fine! Not to mention all the production procedures for This Is It back in those days! He was hands down to everything concerning his art and whatever accompanied it! The kids were with him almost in his every walk out!

That is a good point and is why I cannot believe that he was getting this drug every night in large quantities.

 

[The Lost Child]

OK, but if Michael was under the impression he was under propofol on other occasions as well then surely he wouldn't have eaten those nights either?

But he has eaten. Chase said when he saw on 25th he hasn't eaten his dinner she found it strange.

I'm still trying to catch all your thoughts here: some of you are saying Murray was giving MJ placebo and in fact was flushing it down or whatever? So the point is MJ wanted to be treated w/propofol?

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

OMG!! The juice box thing is ridiculous. Why weren't they saying this from the very beginnning since they act like they know everything. And the juice box was never tested. Yet they're running with this "Michael drinking Propofol" business. Now the whole thing just getting straight-up crazy.

 

[twinklEE]

Well... fans around him during his last 8 months have a very different opinion of the way he looked the last 20 days, especially the last 2 weeks. He was also spending a lot of time at Klein's, up to 4-5 hours. And that is not conspiracy theory, that's a fact, I am afraid

that's not a fact it became a 'fact' when the guy died and minds rand wild, until then all the stalkers were happily harassing his butt, following him everywhere without letting him breath for a split second.

 

[ginvid]

OK, but if Michael was under the impression he was under propofol on other occasions as well then surely he wouldn't have eaten those nights either?

But Murray was saying he was giving this to MJ for 6 weeks. If Murray was giving this to MJ every night for 6 weeks, and MJ had not eaten those nights, then it would not stick out and seem unusual to Kai that MJ had not eaten that night.

 

[StaceyMJ]

But Murray was saying he was giving this to MJ for 6 weeks. If Murray was giving this to MJ every night for 6 weeks, and MJ had not eaten those nights, then it would not stick out and seem unusual to Kai that MJ had not eaten that night.

Ah ok, I get ya. I think lol. So you mean that MJ was fully aware he wasn't getting propofol up until the night of 24th? soundmind seems to think Murray was tricking Michael into thinking he wasn't having propofol in the way he believed he was.

 

[twinklEE]

Michael 'wanting' something or not, is irrelevant it was up to Murray to GIVE it to him, Michael could not have gotten Propofol himself, so even IF he wanted to be treated with it, it was still up to Murray to say yes or no. As the physician he was the one in control and not Michael, regardless of what he (Michael) may or may not have demanded, he didn't put a gun to Murray's forehead. It was all Murray's decision whether to give him something or not.

 

[Petrarose]

But Murray was saying he was giving this to MJ for 6 weeks. If Murray was giving this to MJ every night for 6 weeks, and MJ had not eaten those nights, then it would not stick out and seem unusual to Kai that MJ had not eaten that night.

Good point. She said that she noticed that the dinner was still in the refrigerator and Murry did not come down for his juice. This gives the impression that usually the dinner was eaten, so something was different that night. Why did he come home and not eat that particular night? I also think she used the work "they" meaning that both of them eat, so why Murry did not eat too?

 

[TarinJade]

TMZ

Did Michael Jackson Drink Propofol???

Michael Jackson may have drank himself to death by consuming a juice box laced with Propofol -- at least that's what Conrad Murray's defense team suggested in court today.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, was questioning a Senior Criminalist from the L.A. County Coroner's Office about the 70 grams of fluid found in MJ's stomach at the time of the autopsy ... fluid that tested positive for traces of Propofol.

Flanagan noted the presence of a juice box on MJ's nightstand ... and asked if it had been tested for Propofol ... raising the possibility that MJ was sippin' on the anesthetic shortly before he died.

The criminalist testified he had not tested the juice box.

So what's Flanagan's point? He might be suggesting that MJ was secretly self-administering his Propofol ... which would support Murray's defense theory that MJ accidentally caused his own overdose.

Wouldn't it burn your intestines?
As they use lidocaine or somthing for the pain when it's injected.

Yeah, sure he was sipping it from a juice box...and then he was eating a biscuit laced with lidocaine to dilute the flavor!

 

[StaceyMJ]

Michael 'wanting' something or not, is irrelevant it was up to Murray to GIVE it to him, Michael could not have gotten Propofol himself, so even IF he wanted to be treated with it, it was still up to Murray to say yes or no. As the physician he was the one in control and not Michael, regardless of what he (Michael) may or may not have demanded, he didn't put a gun to Murray's forehead. It was all Murray's decision whether to give him something or not.

I'm not sure who that was directed at but as far as I can see in this thread that is the general consensus of all of us.

 

[xthunderx2]

Murray keeps calling Michael.."my friend"...if he really felt that Michael was his friend..then he would tell the truth and stop trying to make Michael look like a damn nut...he doesn't deserve this...he really doesn't.

 

[chanel05]

You seem to forget the most fundamental of all! During the This Is It preparations we used to see Michael almost on a daily basis going out shopping with the kids, going for his skin treatment and so on. No man can move around if he is given so much propofol. We seem to forget those days that Michael was all around walking and talking! Dr. Death ordered the amounts but surely didn't give it.
There is another possibility that we haven't thought yet. Maybe Dr. Death was "treating" other "patients" with propofol as well...
I'm a million per cent sure that Murray isn't a doctor anyway!

idk about that... also at the time, muarry was probably exclusively working for mj. im not sureif that true about "him not being able to move around after being given so much propofol". the one thing that doctors not about propofol is how quickly it leaves your system, and how it doesnt leave you groggy like other anisthesia(sp).

Also, propofol leaves you groggy, MJ does not appear to be that way when we see him in TII or when we see him walking around (there was talk of him being groggy when coming from Klein's office). As said from members, you are not supposed to eat before having propofol, but according to Kai's testimony, it was noticeable that MJ had not eaten that particulsr night, showing this was not a pattern for him.

And, if a person needs a bit to "awaken" from the effects of propofol, then why would he be asking for it so late in the day that morning? When by accounts. MJ should have been getting ready to leave for practice?

propofol doesnt leave you groggy. thats why it is considered one of the best anisthesia(sp) there is. i remember after mj died anisthesia(sp) experts were talking about propofol and saying that.

etok.....

thanks

 

[Milka]

Michael 'wanting' something or not, is irrelevant it was up to Murray to GIVE it to him, Michael could not have gotten Propofol himself, so even IF he wanted to be treated with it, it was still up to Murray to say yes or no. As the physician he was the one in control and not Michael, regardless of what he (Michael) may or may not have demanded, he didn't put a gun to Murray's forehead. It was all Murray's decision whether to give him something or not.

I've said this a couple of times, and it can't be said enough. I agree 1000 %.

 

[ScrEAm.Jack5on]

TMZ

Did Michael Jackson Drink Propofol???

Michael Jackson may have drank himself to death by consuming a juice box laced with Propofol -- at least that's what Conrad Murray's defense team suggested in court today.

Murray's attorney, J. Michael Flanagan, was questioning a Senior Criminalist from the L.A. County Coroner's Office about the 70 grams of fluid found in MJ's stomach at the time of the autopsy ... fluid that tested positive for traces of Propofol.

Flanagan noted the presence of a juice box on MJ's nightstand ... and asked if it had been tested for Propofol ... raising the possibility that MJ was sippin' on the anesthetic shortly before he died.

The criminalist testified he had not tested the juice box.

So what's Flanagan's point? He might be suggesting that MJ was secretly self-administering his Propofol ... which would support Murray's defense theory that MJ accidentally caused his own overdose.

When he said that, could the prosecution not say the actual truth about the whole ruptured stomach thing from the coroner report?? Cause some public will believe this..

 

[twinklEE]

Since Kai Chase specifically mentioned that Michael's food was untouched on that particular night, it seems as if Michael regularly ate his meals. Which kinda narrows the the chances of Murray really treating him with Propofol every night for six weeks, as your not supposed to eat before receiving it. Let's assume Soundmind is right and Murray was all about tricking Michael, by making him believe he was receiving Propofol while in reality he was pumping him up with all the other addictive drugs, wouldn't he have told Michael not to eat then too? As it would make sense? Why did Michael eat all the other nights but didn't on that particular night?

 

[bouee]

I'm wondering what was the point of the testimony about the emails earlier ? We already knew CM was too busy to monitor his patient, so why bring this out ?

 

[StaceyMJ]

Since Kai Chase specifically mentioned that Michael's food was untouched on that particular night, it seems as if Michael regularly ate his meals. Which kinda narrows the the chances of Murray really treating him with Propofol every night for six weeks, as your not supposed to eat before receiving it. Let's assume Soundmind is right and Murray was all about tricking Michael, by making him believe he was receiving Propofol while in reality he was pumping him up with all the other addictive drugs, wouldn't he have told Michael not to eat then too? As it would make sense? Why did Michael eat all the other nights but didn't on that particular night?

Exactly, it doesn't add up. There was something different about that night.