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MJ lip-syncing

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I'm sorry Arty I don't agree. I don't think that fans would have made any difference complaining after the concert. And I don't think Michael would have taken it quite that well. He wouldn't have understood our criticism.

And regarding record company protests, no matter how successful the Sony protests were, they were made a mockery of and didn't really make a bit of difference. No proper singles were released and Vince was put to one side.
 
Arty said:
Beautiful written Thanks:)
I totaly agree with you I wanna hear his vocal voice no matter it is perfect or not. It´s jus so sad a waste of talent if he doesen´t use his voice. For example Earth Song there is a performance of Mike where he is singing the last part live and it´s so great and a lot of fans would´v loved to hear the whole song live.
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and actually, Michael is not a good mimer for he is a great singer ！
because you can easily figure out his mime......when he mimed he always tended to cover his mouth,then you know"michael is telling us he is miming"lol~
in 80-90s ,seems that he didnt have a habit of covering his mouth during his performance.i wonder, why he covered his mouth??
 
the thing is this. It´s much bigger than only talking about music the lip-syncing issue is about his health too.

When Michael was performing during the Dangerous time for example Remember the Time he was lip-syncing and he was getting away with it because the fans didn´t complain.

So this made him perform even if he was sick cause he knew lip-syncing works and noone is complaining at the show.

If the fans protestet against the lip-syncing right from the start in the early 90´s Mike knew Ok I can only give a show when I´m healthy because I must sing live otherwise the people are not stisfied and if I´m sick I cannot deliver live vocals.
So he would´ve planned the following tours different. Less shows for example and more breaks and better looking out for his health.

So he would´ve cared more for his own health and Sony would ´ve too. If Michael know the fans would not accept lipsyncing for the This it it Concerts than Michael would not even think to perform at this stage before he gets better. So everyone thought Ok he is very sick but he can get away wit lip-syncing so let get the This is it show on and look what it did to Mike.

Can´t you all see where fan responses like " I don´t care if he sings or not he can lie on the ground I´ll go see him just to be in his presence bla bla lead to? The managers than think yepp they´ll pay even if he´s dead sick so roll him on stage
they don´t care.
 
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Ummmm,Arty,i guess no fans would have pointed it out to Michael"hey!!we dont wanna hear the voice track,we wanna your raw emotion!!"thats impossible......because he is Michael Jackson.he can get away with it because of his fans.
 
GinnyJackson said:
This argument gets really old. I don't care if he sang live or if he mouthed the words. You got to see a legend in ACTION. With all the dancing around the stage this man did you would get out of breath to. I can't sing for that long and dance either. I get so sick of reading that fans were mad that he did this... Get over it and you do what he did for an hour and a half and see how tired and out of breath you get then state your argument. Get over this argument already. He did it for his own reasons and if you went to one of the concerts thank god you got to see him alive and well and dancing and doing the thing that he loved most which was entertain people. To bad for you if you cant handle that he lip-synced the words. To bad for you if you feel your money wasn't well spent.

If you haven't guessed i am a little on edge with all this stuff and some personal issues. So if i offend someone i'm apologizing right now for it.
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Agree!!!
He was a perfectionist who focused on every detail of the way he sang, danced, moved or spun when he was on stage. Undoubtedly he wanted his every single performance to be flawless and he always accomplished it. I'm not an artist so I don't know the exactly reason why an artist lip-sync but I think he had his own reasons when he made such decision and I totally respect every decision he made!
 
vivianmiho said:
Ummmm,Arty,i guess no fans would have pointed it out to Michael"hey!!we dont wanna hear the voice track,we wanna your raw emotion!!"thats impossible......because he is Michael Jackson.he can get away with it because of his fans.
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I don´t think all of his fans are Yes Men. The Yes Men destroyed his life and I have a much better opinion of the fans so please don´t put all the fans in the category of the Yes Men.
This is not fair and it hurts. I was always speaking against the lip-syncing and a lot of other fans too!!
 
Lady with the Tramp said:
Agree!!!
Undoubtedly he wanted his every single performance to be flawless and he always accomplished it. I
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But paradoxical because of his lip-syncing the performance was not flawless because the main part was missing-his beautiful voice.
 
Arty said:
This is the best joke I´ve read on the internet!!! Post of the Year!!!

It´s like we all know Johnny Depp is a great actor so why bother doing another movie Johnny if you can hear us do something else show us how you can repair a car we already know your acting skills.............

OH MY GOD :D :D this is sooo funny :D
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I understand where Arty is coming from in the respect of linking good health to being able to put on a live performance and therefore you're saying that if the fans standards were sooooo high then he would have known he couldnt have done This Is It and therefore would still be alive.

Thats great in a perfect world BUT

With time and age and lifes cruelties sometimes we just have to do the best we can do with what we have got. He must have had a personal reason to do the concerts - I dont think you can go out to do something just for other people alone, personally you have to get something out of it, whether that be for money/for his kids to see him/ or just to test himself.

If no one had bought the tickets because we demanded perfection then I would be concerned the effect that would have had on him.
 
People seem to forget to be critically to someone doesn´t mean you don´t care it´s the opposite it´s because you care and love someone you´re critically otherwise why even bother!
 
pamiiee said:
If no one had bought the tickets because we demanded perfection then I would be concerned the effect that would have had on him.
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I agree that would be wrong. It should ´ve started much earlier and not at this point.

Just let us wait and see. Maybe Mike was in good health and singing live(as Kenny is saying) in just a few weeks we all know the answer maybe earlier when the trailer arrives.
 
i agree. some artists lip-synch for a variety of reasons, sometimes theyre a little hoarse and its better to go on with the show than cancel. other times theyre doing a lot of dancing around and its easier to have some lipsynch - usually artists will lipsynch certain songs and then sing live for the rest of the tour

Lady with the Tramp said:
Agree!!!
He was a perfectionist who focused on every detail of the way he sang, danced, moved or spun when he was on stage. Undoubtedly he wanted his every single performance to be flawless and he always accomplished it. I'm not an artist so I don't know the exactly reason why an artist lip-sync but I think he had his own reasons when he made such decision and I totally respect every decision he made!
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Arty said:
I don´t think all of his fans are Yes Men. The Yes Men destroyed his life and I have a much better opinion of the fans so please don´t put all the fans in the category of the Yes Men.
This is not fair and it hurts. I was always speaking against the lip-syncing and a lot of other fans too!!
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no....im sorry for not expressing myself clearly,which makes you misread my meaning:D
I mean no fans would have told it to him when they were actually face to face
when you are in his presence,will you try to say"i hate your miming!" ??
he may reply"oh,boy!i am embarrassed!!"lol~~
or the YES men have chance to meet him but they wont say that while the NO man wanna tell him about their real thoughts but they never get a chance

Arty said:
People seem to forget to be critically to someone doesn´t mean you don´t care it´s the opposite it´s because you care and love someone you´re critically otherwise why even bother!
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exactully,thats what the second kind fans really wanna say.i wanna Michael be better so i have some complaints because i love him!and i dont beat him like his father,right?:p
 
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Before I post: I respect Mike's decision to lip sync his vocals in History and Dangerous tours because he did it as a compromise. I would rather his voice stay intact to record future records than risk damage.

However: Fans go to concerts for different reasons, because they like different aspects of the artist to different degrees. Some fans might be more into the dancing aspect and some might be more into the vocals.

I have to be honest, I would be there for live vocals. If there wasnt live vocals I would be disappointed with that *aspect* of the show. It doesnt mean I wouldnt appreciate the show overall (of course I would be enthralled by the dancing and in awe of his presence), and nor does it make me a bad fan or ungrateful.
 
vivianmiho said:
no....im sorry for not expressing myself clearly,which makes you misread my meaning:D
I mean no fans would have told it to him when they were actually face to face
when you are in his presence,will you try to say"i hate your miming!" ??
he may reply"oh,boy!i am embarrassed!!"lol~~
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no I´ve not misread. You say "I mean no fans would have told it to him when they were actually face to face"

This is a YES MAN! A YES MAN always says YES because they are afraid of someone they don´t won´t to hurt the feelings of someone and usually in Mikes case it´s about money.
The motto is: Say nothing or at least Say Yes so he doesen´t get angry at me and so I´ll get a paycheck the next month"

You can say for example: Mike man I love the Bad Tour so much your singing and dancing was so great. Please Mike in future tours sing more songs live like in the bad tour the fans love your live vocals so muc it would be a dream come true to hear Who is it live"

So you must not talk about hating etc. You can be nice but still get to the point it´s not very hard to do.

It won´t make he difference if Mike hears this 1-2 times but if he hears it a lot and gets a lot of fan mails etc about live vocals etc then there is a good change he would do something about it. At least a much much better chance than if he gets only mail and responses where they praise his performances.
Even Rodney Jerkins says when he worked with Mike Mike always wanted to be treated like a normal guy and he would say to Rodney very often "please tell me when you don´t like something" " I need to know"
 
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pamiiee said:
....or stand by like his mother........
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sure!!but his mother also complained"Michael,you should not be with children in the room without a third ppl present!!"
and we complained"Michael,you should not mime while you have such beautiful voice!!"^^
 
Arty said:
You can say for example: Mike man I love the Bad Tour so much your singing and dancing was so great. Please Mike in future tours sing more songs live like in the bad tour the fans love your live vocals so muc it would be a dream come true to hear Who is it live"

So you must not talk about hating etc. You can be nice but still get to the point it´s not very hard to do.
Even Rodney Jerkins says when he worked with Mike Mike always wanted to be treated like a normal guy and he would say to Rodney very often "please tell me when you don´t like something" " I need to know"
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okay^^ you design a good example~~~but has Michael ever been told about that?i wonder
 
vivianmiho said:
okay^^ you design a good example~~~but has Michael ever been told about that?i wonder
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I wonder myself. But I don´t think so. Unfortunatley he was surrounded with a lot of Yes Man.It would be really interesting to hear how he would response if someone for example another artist was talking to him about the lip-syncing subject

Imaging for example James Brown talking to Mike after a history concert.

James Brown". Yo Mike great dancing and everything but come on Mike why did you lip-sync s much I would´ve loved to hear you sing live"
 
Arty said:
I wonder myself. But I don´t think so. Unfortunatley he was surrounded with a lot of Yes Man.It would be really interesting to hear how he would response if someone for example another artist was talking to him about the lip-syncing subject

Imaging for example James Brown talking to Mike after a history concert.

James Brown". Yo Mike great dancing and everything but come on Mike why did you lip-sync s much I would´ve loved to hear you sing live"
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hahahah Mike":doh:boy,plz...... "
i cant imagine cuz i seldom see michael being put in such a embarrassing situation.....the only once i can think of is when he were asked if he was a virgin at that time by Oprah^^
 
Another thing I find quite interesting is this.

Mike was always very concerned about his legacy he always wanted to be No1.and was planning his legacy very carefully for example not to much interviews and TV performances( he even didn´t won´t to di Motown 25 in the beginning) etc etc.

Again he was a perfectionist even when planning his legacy. My question is why did he thought that the lip-syncing would not have a negative effect on his legacy has a performer. Mike was very clever and he was learning from other megastars and created with the knowledge his legacy.
James Brown , Jackie Wilson Elvis etc they never lip-synced Mike was smart enough to know that if you lip-sync it will hurt your reputation as a great performer because only teeny stars lip-sync. This part I don´t understand at all.
 
Listen, Arty, you really don't know what was going on in Michael's life at that time, so why don't you just leave it alone?
 
I don't care Michael did a lip syncing he still a great singer. I noticed his voice start changing since 2000.
 
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benscarr said:
Everyone lip-syncs these day's because a) they don't know how to sing and dance at the same, and know nothing about pacing themselves and b) they aren't natural singers and dancers.

The point is Michael Jackson in the 1970's and at his peak as a live artist in from 1979-89 sang and danced live amazingly. The lip-syncing didn't start until the Dangerous Tour, and but it didn't get out of hand until the HIStory Tour. I do think Michael did have throat problems in the 1990's (the 1992 leg of the Dangerous Tour was cancelled early because of thrait proplems Michael was having), and may have been ordered by doctors not to do long tours otherwise he would lose his voice (this is just an opinion of mine, not a fact), which is the reason the HIStory Tour was 90% lip-synced. But it should be pointed out the the Dangerous and HIStory Tours were the only tours that had a lot of lip-syncing, Michael sang live on every tour from 1970-89.
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K.O.S. said:
I think people who waste time on such discussions should take a look at the Victory Tour and the Bad Tour, and then you will know that Michael Jackson is the only performer in the history of music who could sing with full power flawless and dance in a tempo no other performer could match.

But Michael could not do both equally good as he got older and started to contract Laryngitis while touring.

Michael was a perfectionist. He had to choose. Either sing 100% or dance 100%. He chose dancing, because at the end of the day and it is important fans understand this. In Michaels concerts there were a lot of people who normally don't call themselves fans.

He wasn't just delivering concerts to the die hard fans, but to everyone.

And the majority goes to MJ concerts to see him dance.
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You know I was wondering why he did it, since he is such a perfectionist, and you're right, he wouldn't have done it unless he felt it necessary. I don't like when people do it, but that's because nowadays there are so many people in the music industry who can't sing. Michael had proven his incomparable talent already, and he obviously felt that the performance as a whole would be much stronger if he lip-synched some of the songs.
 
I don't mind lipsyncing , but I always thought it was a bit tacky that he used the same vocals from the 80's and the 70's, and didn't even bother to re-record the tracks to make it sound different.

That's the only complaint I can make on this subject.
 
fridu_reyk said:
I don't mind lipsyncing , but I always thought it was a bit tacky that he used the same vocals from the 80's and the 70's, and didn't even bother to re-record the tracks to make it sound different.

That's the only complaint I can make on this subject.
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Can I ask you a question besides Michael Jackson what music do you hear. I know Mike is probaly your No.1 but are there other artists you listen to?
 
George Michaels voice has changed so much, with age it has added body like a good wine. So I can see where you're coming from Arty. Do you feel with the lip sync thing that we were missing out on a development of voice? That Michael was trying to keep the vocals of his youth rather than develop as an aging performer - which I guess if he had then perhaps physically he wouldnt have also tried to go back in time?

I know when I saw Genesis (reformed) couple of years ago that Phil Collins had adjusted obviously because he couldnt get certain notes and the partial deafness - which was very interesting and I suppose with age there can be developments of a plus side and also add something different.
 
the reason elvis didnt lipsynch on tour i think was that lipsynching only really started in the 1990s. before that most of the artists i remember were singing alive.

in 1990 things changed though and as a madonna fan i remember her saying during some shows 'okay, im gonna lipsynch.... oooooh!' she would make a mockery out of it even though she was singing over backing vocals anyways for many different blond ambition shows. she would always lipsynch now im following you on the blond ambition tour. and other songs like vogue she would usually sing over the backing vocal. sometimes you could hear her huffing and puffing away like a chimney because of the physical demands of the dancing on stage
 
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