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Michael Jackson's doctor says others gave him propofol

hey have people monitoring him so he cant leave the country,
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if hes got his passport i dont see how he can be stopped. u want to make sure he cant leave u take his passport off him
 
elusive moonwalker said:
if hes got his passport i dont see how he can be stopped. u want to make sure he cant leave u take his passport off him
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Even if he did leave the country, LAPD are still going to watch him. They would know exactly where he is going, what flight he is taking, what day he is leaving, and if he had a round-trip ticket.

If a suspect become a flight risk, they have the right to arrest them and take his passport. So, all this talk about him running away is just paranoia.
 
yeah i doubt he would go anywhere anyway.just commenting on the other comment
 
Authorities taking their time in Jackson case

by Brittni DeHart | September 22, 2009
http://www.chargerbulletin.com/2009/09/22/authorities-taking-their-time-in-jackson-case/

‘Weaning’ Jackson off propofol?
Dr. Jayson Hymes, an anesthesiologist and specialist in pain medication and addiction, said authorities are confronted with a central question: "It's not illegal to be a bad doctor but when does it go from bad medicine to so unbelievably stupid it's criminal negligence?"

He said investigators may be questioning Murray's claim that he was trying to "wean" Jackson off the powerful anesthetic by giving him decreasing doses.

"It makes no sense," said Hymes. "You don't wean people off propofol. People don't go around craving propofol. What he needed to be weaned off of were all the other drugs."

As for Jackson's demand for propofol, he said, "He didn't understand that anesthesia is not sleep. If he wanted restorative sleep, he was going in the wrong direction."

Los Angeles attorney Harland Braun, a celebrity defense attorney who also has represented doctors in court, suggested prosecutors may take the case to a grand jury and let it investigate the evidence and recommend action.

Loyola University Law School professor Laurie Levenson said history hangs over prosecutors as they build the case. The district attorney's office is shadowed by memories of the O.J. Simpson and Robert Blake murder acquittals and the Phil Spector case that took two trials just to win a second-degree murder conviction.
Prosecutors will want to make sure they have a very strong case before proceeding.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Even if he did leave the country, LAPD are still going to watch him. They would know exactly where he is going, what flight he is taking, what day he is leaving, and if he had a round-trip ticket.

If a suspect become a flight risk, they have the right to arrest them and take his passport. So, all this talk about him running away is just paranoia.
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There was something about a month ago how the LAPD and LVPD got a bit antsy as Murray was apparently looking at tickets to Brazil. You're right, if they believe someone who is under investigation will leave the country then they can take their passport away.
 
Soundmind said:
By the way Murray was supposedly the doctor who would revive not the doctor who would administer , Dr. Admas was contacted to be the doctor who would administer but he declined for whatever reason .

from an article posted on Foxnews , murray contacted a fellow doctor in Houston or Vegas to join him as part of the medical team for the This is it . I believe that was also contacted to be the one who would administer . but he declined because he could not leave his family and clinic for a long period . so murray told mj" i'll do it myself"
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Where did you get this information from?
 
yaazgurl said:
Where did you get this information from?
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Michael Jackson's Doctor Not Licensed to Prescribe Controlled Drugs in California
Monday, July 06, 2009
By Jana Winter


According to federal drug regulations, Michael Jackson's personal physician couldn’t legally prescribe even a powerful cough medicine for the King of Pop in California, and he couldn’t go to the pharmacy to get drugs for him, either.

Federal authorities told FOXNews.com that Dr. Conrad Murray is not licensed to administer certain levels of controlled medications in the state, and that if he gave Demerol or Oxycontin to Jackson, as has been reported, it would have been illegal.

To possess the drugs in California, Murray would have had to bring them with him from Nevada or Texas, which is illegal, or administer drugs that other doctors had provided locally or that Jackson had ordered online from abroad, which is also illegal.

Murray's lawyers insist that the doctor didn’t give Demerol or OxyContin to Jackson. Murray's attorney, Ed Chernoff, released a statement Monday declaring “Dr. Murray didn’t prescribe or administer anything that should have killed Michael Jackson.”
Federal law requires doctors to register with the Drug Enforcement Agency in the jurisdiction in which they administer, dispense or prescribe controlled substances ranging in potency from extra-strength cough syrup to potent painkillers. Murray is licensed to practice medicine in three states, and he is required to register with the DEA in all three if he wants to be able to provide
equal drug treatment to all his patients.


“Dr. Murray has DEA registration numbers in Nevada and Texas, but he does not have one in California,” a federal law enforcement official told FOXNews.com. “You absolutely have to have a registration number to prescribe controlled substances, and there was nothing in California.”

Potency decreases as schedule numbers increase: Schedule V drugs include codeines like Robitussin A-C and Pediacof; Schedule IV: Valium, Xanax, Ambien, Sonata, Lunesta; Schedule III: Anabolic steroids, Vicodin; Schedule II: Demerol, OxyContin, Percocet, Ritalin. Schedule I drugs, like heroin, PCP or Peyote, have no medicinal purposes.

The intravenous anesthetic Propofol, whose brand name is Diprivan, is not classified by the DEA as a scheduled drug, due to the rarity of its abuse and the dangerous level of potency and monitoring involved in administering the drug, which normally occurs only in a hospital setting.

Miranda Sevcik, a spokeswoman for Murray's legal team, said she did not have information about the doctor's DEA registration status in California.

"We don't have that information," she said. "If it's relevant to the investigation, I'm sure it'll be looked into. If it's not, it won't be."

Last Monday, investigators with the Los Angeles County Coroner’s Office removed two bags filled with prescription medications from Jackson’s Holmby Hills home. Among the drugs recovered were bottles of Diprivan, at least some of which were found without labels indicating where they came from, law enforcement sources told FOXNews.com.

"We're not answering to questions about Diprivan nor are we answering to any substance, food or drink that could be found in his system as well," Sevcik said. "We just don't know at this piont. That is why we're waiting on the official report."

Murray's attorney, Chernoff, said any drugs the doctor gave Jackson “would have been prescribed in response to a specific complaint.”

Jackson complained to Murray that he was having trouble sleeping, the doctor's attorneys said, but sleeping pills like Ambien or Sonata fall into the Schedule IV category, and Murray would not have been legally allowed to prescribe them.

Depending on the results of Jackson’s autopsy report — the full toxicology results won’t be back for another few weeks — criminal cases could be pursued if violations of federal drug laws are found to have caused his death.

Jose Martinez, a spokesman for the DEA in Los Angeles, said his office was referring all media inquires to the LAPD, offering only this statement: "We routinely offer assistance to any agency regarding the Federal Controlled Substance act, however at this time we have nothing further to comment about the death of Michael Jackson"

The LAPD did not respond to requests for comment. It has called Murray a cooperating witness.

As investigators work to track down the source of numerous prescriptions found in Jackson’s home, they are also checking up on the cadre of doctors who became part of the King of Pop’s final inner circle. Murray was one of its newest members; he met Jackson just three years ago.

In late 2006, Michael Jackson returned to the United States after a year of self-imposed exile following his acquittal on child molestation charges. After months in Bahrain, and then in Ireland, Jackson and his three children arrived in Las Vegas amid swirling rumors of a comeback concert series there.

When Jackson’s daughter, Paris, then 7, became ill, he asked his security detail if anyone knew of a concierge doctor who could come by the house to check on her. One of his bodyguards said he knew a guy: Dr. Conrad Murray.

Murray, a cardiologist who runs a practice in Las Vegas and another in Houston, makes house calls to high-profile clients in Sin City — and in Washington and New York.

Friends and former patients say his Zen-like manner, holistic approach to healing and Chopra-esque spirituality likely contributed to the forging of his friendship with Jackson.

It was that friendship, not Murray’s specialty in cardiology, that led Jackson to chose Murray to join him on tour, Murray's attorneys say. In May, Murray signed on in an official capacity to be Jackson's personal physician — to the tune of $150,000 per month — for the duration of his 50-concert series in London. Murray says concert promoter AEG LIVE currently owes him $300,000, according to his attorneys.)

The money was one of the main reasons Murray decided to go on tour with Jackson, says Rev. Floyd Williams, 80, who is Murray's friend and patient. Murray had developed a booming concierge business — he was jetting off to see patients in New York and Washington while building his practice in Las Vegas. Three years ago, Murray joined the Freemasonry, the international fraternal society that dates back to the early 17th century. His friends say this new network galvanized his growing side business.

But despite his success, Murray's clinic in a lower-middle-class neighborhood in Houston had been hemorrhaging money. His patients couldn’t pay, and Murray couldn’t cover the costs. But he wanted to keep the clinic open, his friend said, so he took out a series of loans.

Williams said that Murray asked him whether he should leave his patients to go on tour with Jackson. He said he encouraged Murray to go, to make loads of money, and then to come back and continue to operate his growing practice —and to keep the clinic open — without the crippling debt.

In May, Murray said yes to Jackson, and in the last few months he made several trips to Los Angeles to work out the details of the contract and to meet with the star. One of Murray's patients, Donna DiGiacomo, 51, said she had heard that Murray had asked a colleague — a hospital doctor — to join Jackson’s medical team, but that doctor said he could not leave his family and business for such a long period of time.

Murray stayed at his own place in Los Angeles on most nights. But when asked, and only on occasion, he spent the night at Jackson’s rented Holmby Hills home, one of the doctor’s attorneys, Matt Alford, told FOXNews.com in an earlier interview.

On June 24, Jackson finished up a rehearsal at the Staples Center and asked Murray to stay the night. The next day around noon, Murray went to check on Jackson and found him lying on his bed unconscious, but with a weak pulse, the doctor's attorneys say.

Murray performed CPR for about 30 minutes and tried to call 911, but could not call out on the landlines, which had been turned off for security reasons. He could not use his cell phone because, his attorneys have said, he did not know the exact address of the house. After performing CPR on Jackson, who lay on his bed, for approximately 30 minutes, and after yelling out for someone else in the home, he left the pop star to try to find someone who could call 911. He found a chef in another part of the house. The chef then found a bodyguard, Alberto Alvarez, and while Murray rushed back to Jackson’s room and continued CPR, Alvarez called 911.

The time was 12:21 p.m.

Paramedics arrived three minutes later and worked on Jackson at his home for approximately 40 minutes before he was transported to UCLA Medical Center. Jackson continued to have a pulse while he was in the ambulance, according to Murray.

At 2:26 p.m., Jackson was pronounced dead. Murray says he broke the news of Jackson’s death to his three children, Prince Michael, 12, Paris, 11, and Blanket, 7, outside the emergency room.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,530242,00.html
 
Beachlover said:
Here is what I found from CNN:

Tonight, new information on Jackson's history with potent sleep drugs -- 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta has been on the trail of a doctor who we've learned worked for Jackson on tour in the late 1990s, an anesthesiologist himself with a checkered medical past. Sanjay what have you learned?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll tell you. We know several things now. Sources close to Michael Jackson tell us that during the "History" tour back in '96 and '97 Jackson was actually traveling with what looked like a mini clinic, including an IV pole, drips and what looked like a rack with lights and monitors and such.

Sources who had the opportunity to see Jackson at various points during the tour say Jackson was traveling with at least two doctors and one of whom was anesthesiologist Dr. Neil Ratner.

Now, one source said he asked Ratner about all this elaborate equipment, and Ratner said he was there because Michael simply couldn't sleep. Now Ratner went on to say, according to the source, "I take him down at night" -- referring to Jackson -- "and I bring him back up in the morning."

Now, a source said Michael Jackson often appeared groggy. And when the source asked Jackson about all of this equipment, he just said he needed sleep. So, it was pretty remarkable, Anderson, to just hear that so clearly. COOPER: Well Sanjay, I mean, over the past couple of nights we've talked to each other about how dangerous powerful anesthetics can be. Do we know anything about precautions taken to protect Jackson on this tour?

GUPTA: Yes, we do. Sources say that Ratner would keep the equipment in his hotel room, which would be next to Jackson's. And he would use that for monitoring Jackson's vital signs when he was asleep, or under, as the source put it.

Now, there was a "Vanity Fair" article that said a former business associate of Jackson's said the singer had a quote, "sleep disorder," and then Ratner confirmed that to us today on the phone.

But I really want to talk to him some more, so we tracked him down, Anderson, today at the Woodstock, New York, where he now lives with his wife. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA (on camera): We've come here because your name was obviously associated with Michael Jackson. And people said that there was a question of whether or not you gave anesthesia to him while he was on tour. And we just wanted to come to the source, you, and hear and find out if that had happened.

DR. NEIL RATNER, FORMER PHYSICIAN OF MICHAEL JACKSON'S: I'm very upset. I'm distraught. Michael was a good person.

I can't talk about it right now. It's really something I don't want to talk about right now. I've lost a friend and I feel very badly about that.

GUPTA: There were two people, and I just want to allow you to respond to this. And you can or you don't have to. But I think it's important that you hear this. We have a couple of different sources have said they would see IV equipment, what sounded like probably pumps, they described as sort of an audio rack sort of looking thing in a hotel room with Michael. And they made it sound like that was your stuff. Are they wrong? I was really...

RATNER: I don't want to talk about this topic at all now. I really have nothing to say about it right now. You know? The man hasn't had a funeral, and the man hasn't been buried. It's inappropriate. I don't want to talk about it right now. And I appreciate it if we could end this now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Ok to be fair, it sounds like they had monitoring equipment but to say it was BY THE BOOK is a far stretch. Even then it was probably a very risky thing to do and in my opinion should not have been done.

Everyone seems to get very upset when I say these things and they think I am not blaming Murray, but that is not true. Of course he is the last man standing and to blame, but I also see that this could have happened years ago and some small part of me is angry at Michael too for allowing this to happen. I know a lot of people will disagree and say that I am wrong, but this is my personal feeling and I am just mad that he let this happen. He was so young and had so much going for him.

Darn it....I want him not to be gone.
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I Agreee with your comment when you say"by the book is a far stretch".....by the book would of ment ...not administering the propofol out of a hospital setting.,,,,,,,and Murray is even more to balme........he didnt use any types of monitors whats so ever...and he even left Michael alone.
 
mj had almost a hospital setting with his on the history tour so what's your point ?
 
If you are referring to me...my point is........I agree....on the history tour yes he did have all the equipment he need....however....this time around...with Murray....there was no equipment......just Ivy Poles.....no monitor.....If you however were not referring to me...I apologies...:)
 
not only this but a hospital setting is inside a hospital OR........not a make shift hospital room where there was not real doctors doing real surgeries......this is the real use for propofol...not suppose to be used to get to sleep ...as we all know....and Murray knew this too...he was the stupid ass that used it he was the stupid ass that Killed Michael.
 
you quoted beachlover , her point was the doctors on history book did not do everything by the book as i said , you seem to agree with me on this point that the doctors indeed did follow the instructions and that's why mj had never suffered anything back then and why he thought it was safe . on the other hand murray did nothing of that and that's why mj is now no longer with us .


not only this but a hospital setting is inside a hospital OR........not a make shift hospital room where there was not real doctors doing real surgeries......this is the real use for propofol...not suppose to be used to get to sleep ...as we all know....and Murray knew this too...he was the stupid ass that used it he was the stupid ass that Killed Michael
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we are talking legally here , what they were bound to do by law , legally they followed all the instructions on the bottles set by the manufacturor . medically propofol was not a treatment for insomnia , they can always claim they were being 'innovative' .
 
Drug Propofol eyed in Michael Jackson's death investigation: Rx for trouble
Michael Daly

Tuesday, July 7th 2009, 2:49 AM



LOS ANGELES - To spend a week at the epicenter of the Michael Jackson tragedy, and to hear talk of the three fatherless kids, and see thousands of his distraught fans is to wonder if his death could have been prevented.

And as I watched the elaborate preparations for his sendoff today, the question came: Why is a drug considerably more dangerous than Russian roulette as unregulated as bubblegum?

The coroner's report is not yet in, but investigators are paying special attention to Propofol, one of the drugs found at Jackson's house, and the one that an expert says has a 100% death rate for most abusers.

"All the reports I've read of those patients have died," said Dr. Paul Wischmeyer of the University of Colorado. "A cc too much of this drug can change you from being high to being dead.

"It's not like heroin or cocaine or other drugs where there is a margin for error. There is no margin for error for this drug. It kills people."

The only abusers who stand a chance are the few doctors who become addicted. Wischmeyer led a 2006-07 study of Propofol after a colleague died from the drug. The study surveyed 126 teaching hospitals, which reported 25 abusers. Seven, or 28%, had died using the drug. Six were medical residents. One was a medical assistant.

Wischmeyer then did a less formal investigation into nonphysician abusers and found that taking the drug amounted to a death sentence.

"That somebody would be receiving this at home, that's just unfathomable," he said.

Despite such dangers, the study found more than 70% of the facilities surveyed did not regulate the drug. These accounted for all seven of the medical-staff fatalities. "It sits out on carts," Wischmeyer said.

His study cites the case of one 31-year-old doctor who began taking the drug "to reduce his feelings of boredom, inner tensions and depression." He was soon injecting himself dozens of times a day.

A case study presented back in 1992 by the journal Anesthesiology described another doctor in his early 30s who started taking Propofol for "a variety of stressors." He was soon injecting himself 10 to 15 times a day.

"He stated that by this stage he was no longer taking the Propofol because of stress but because he had an overwhelming compulsion and craving to use the drug again," the study noted.

The abusers tended to have a prior history of drug abuse, not unlike Jackson's struggle with painkillers.

"Propofol was often the final drug used in a pattern of controlled substance abuse," the study noted. "This pattern may be because of the ease of obtaining Propofol."




Another allure was that the drug was not only fast acting, but fast departing, with "a short duration of debilitating symptoms," rendering the abuser briefly unconscious, but leaving none of the sleepiness and other after-effects of narcotics. An abuser could knock himself out and snap back ready to handle patients or, in the case of a megastar, rehearse for 50 shows.

Indeed, someone with a high level of "stressors" and tormented by insomnia might be very attracted to a drug that allowed him just to check out for a while and be able to function afterward.

That would especially be the case if that someone were not a doctor and was unaware of what the 2007 study terms the drug's "narrow window of safety."

Such a someone might even imagine that there was no danger at all with a doctor present.

How is someone with no medical education supposed to have any idea that abusing such a drug could be so lethal?

And why on Earth was the drug not immediately regulated after that 2007 study documented its dangers?

The reports that Propofol was found at Jackson's home is all too familiar to anyone who has read Wischmeyer's study.

"In all cases ... Propofol-filled syringes, empty vials, or other Propofol paraphernalia were found in close proximity to the deceased," the study noted.

If the drug is indeed the cause of death, the lack of regulation may make it difficult for investigators to trace it to whoever gave it to him.

Wischmeyer hopes that at least the powers that be will finally make Propofol more regulated than bubblegum.

"If anything good can come form the tragedy of his death ..." he said
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Beachlover , giving a drug with no margin of error without following the instructions from the manufacturor is an evidense of " noregard to human life" , what more evidence do you want ?

and before people say he abused propofol read carefully about the abusers , they reinject themselves many times a day . something mj never did .
 
Propofol is safe when being adminstered by a trained anesthesiologist, with a room full of medical equipment, and other doctors on standby. What on earth posessed Murray to even think about doing this in a bedroom, let alone leave that person unattended. It just angers me so much that MJ's death could have, and should have, been prevented.
 
From Medscape Medical News
American Society of Anesthesiology Issues New Recommendations for Safe Use of Propofol
Caroline Helwick

Information from Industry. October 21, 2009 (New Orleans, Louisiana) — At its 2009 annual meeting, the American Society of Anesthesiology (ASA) is formalizing recommendations to facilitate the safe use of propofol. At a press briefing, a panel of ASA Directors described the new recommendations and their rationale.

John Dombrowski, MD, from Washington, DC, said that the recent death of Michael Jackson raised safety concerns about the anesthetic agent, but "we were looking at these issues way before his death."

Kenneth Elmassian, DO, from East Lansing, Michigan, who is president-elect of the Michigan Society of Anesthesiologists, added that "there has been recent notoriety for this drug, which is actually a safe and marvelous agent." Approximately 30 million Americans undergo anesthesia each year, and 90% of these cases involve propofol, he noted.

"But it needs to be provided in an appropriate setting in which physiologic rescue can be performed if needed," he emphasized.

ASA Position

The ASA unequivocally maintains that propofol should be used in a medical setting by professionals trained in the provision of general anesthesia, with proper supervision by a physician trained in anesthesia and qualified to provide rescue should too much drug be given. Building upon this position, the ASA is making several new recommendations, the panel said.
In March 2009, the ASA Board of Directors voted to recommend to the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) that propofol be labeled a controlled substance. The tighter control and monitoring that accompany scheduling of the drug is expected to reduce the potential for abuse.

In a 2007 study of 126 academic anesthesiology programs (Anesth Analg. 2007;105:897-898), 18% of the centers reported at least 1 incident of abuse over 10 years, involving 25 individuals, 7 of whom died. This represented a 5-fold increase from previous surveys and provided the impetus for the recommendations, Dr. Elmassian said. These recommendations were cited in the DEA's recent decision to make fospropofol, a short-acting "light" version of propofol, a schedule IV controlled substance, he said.

The ruling, which is expected to become official November 3, means that its use must be controlled and documented. The requirements for a schedule IV drug are less stringent than for schedule II controlled substances (i.e., narcotics), and compliance should be simple, he explained.

The prevailing belief, before the 2007 study, was that propofol abuse simply did not occur, Dr. Dombrowski added. "Indeed, [cases of abuse] are very rare, but when they occur they are tragic," he observed. He cited 1 example of an anesthesiologist injecting propofol 50 times a day to catch naps and stay alert. This anesthesiologist is now undergoing rehabilitation for substance abuse, he said.

"By making this a controlled substance, we will know when a provider is using it inappropriately."

The ASA representatives said they are hopeful that the DEA will also consider making propofol a schedule IV drug.

ASA Outlines Recommendations for Safer Administration of Propofol

Data from other sources have led to recommendations for more thorough monitoring of the patient receiving propofol, said Hector Vila, MD, from Tampa, Florida, who is chair of the ASA Ambulatory Surgery Committee.

This information is coming from the Closed Claim Project (a retrospective case-review system), the Anesthesia Quality Institute, and the Anesthesia Patient Safety Foundation. Summary analyses from the Closed Claim Project recently documented the association between propofol and adverse events related to breathing.

From 1989 to 2005, the FDA received 186 reports of deaths among patients receiving propofol, and this is considered an underestimate. "This does not include the 'near misses'," Dr. Elmassian pointed out. "Most of us have been involved in rescuing patients from the precipice."

As a result, during the annual meeting, the ASA House of Delegates approved the following safety monitoring proposals:

Monitoring for exhaled carbon dioxide should be considered during endoscopic procedures in which sedation is provided with propofol alone or in combination with opioids and benzodiazepines, especially during these procedures on the upper gastrointestinal tract.
Careful attention to airway management must be provided during endoscopic retrograde cholangiopancreaticography procedures performed in the prone position where ventilatory monitoring, airway maintenance, and resuscitation could be especially difficult.
"The use of these approaches will lead to increased patient safety," Dr. Vila predicted. "The technology is widely available in the anesthesia delivery system already and is not expensive."

Dr. Dombrowski added that, "in addition to having the anesthesiologist keep his or her eye on the patient, measuring exhaled CO2 adds another layer of protection."

He emphasized that anesthesiologists are "in the forefront of patient safety." The Institute of Medicine, he noted, has singled out anesthesiologists "as the leaders in quality and safety," mainly because of the technological advances in the field (i.e., pulse oximetry), the standardization of medications and equipment, and improvements in training.

Dr. Elmassian, Dr. Dombrowski, and Dr. Vila have disclosed no relevant financial relationships.

American Society of Anesthesiologists (ASA) 2009 Annual Meeting: Press Briefing. Presented October 19, 2009.
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none of these instructions were followed by murray even though he knew he was dealing with a drug with no margin for error, yet some here want us to trust them when they say their is no evidence murray'actions demonstrated no regard to human life .
 
Soundmind said:
Beachlover , giving a drug with no margin of error without following the instructions from the manufacturor is an evidense of " noregard to human life" , what more evidence do you want ?

and before people say he abused propofol read carefully about the abusers , they reinject themselves many times a day . something mj never did .
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I am only trying to figure out facts and legal issues because thats what will come out of the arrest and trial if there is one. I never said he was addicted to Propofol as it is not a narcotic. He may have been persistent and wanted that drug because he knew how well it worked but thats not the same thing.

So, if this is "no regard for human life" and can be proved by the police, what charge is it?
 
Soundmind said:
Hepatic Effects

Abnormal liver function test results have been reported in adults receiving propofol for sedation in a critical care setting, but a causal relationship to the drug has not been established.


http://www.medscape.com/druginfo/monograph?cid=med&drugid=3519&drugname=Propofol+IV&monotype=monograph&secid=4
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So, that is inconclusive because the patients may also have had other drugs. Also, keep in mind these patients were all in a critical care setting so that means they are already sick.
 
second degree murder , unintentional killing caused by a dangerous conduct with no regard to human life
 
Soundmind said:
none of these instructions were followed by murray even though he knew he was dealing with a drug with no margin for error, yet some here want us to trust them when they say their is no evidence murray'actions demonstrated no regard to human life .
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This is not the Physicians Desk Reference. I think we have to go there because he is not bound to read other journals. (yes...it is a pain in the neck...I know)
 
sloride said:
Propofol is safe when being adminstered by a trained anesthesiologist, with a room full of medical equipment, and other doctors on standby. What on earth posessed Murray to even think about doing this in a bedroom, let alone leave that person unattended. It just angers me so much that MJ's death could have, and should have, been prevented.
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150,000.00 a month.
 
Everyone here is parsing hairs. I don't get it??

Dr. Conrad Murray is responsible for Michael Jackson's untimely death. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Dr. Conrad Murray is not a trained anesthesiologist, yet, he gave Michael Jackson a substance (Diprivan) that he wasn't trained in giving. There was no heart monitoring equipment, no blood pressure monitor, nothing to monitor Michael Jackson's oxygen levels. There were no breathing apparatuses. There was no defibrillator. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this doctor had a willful disregard of human life because if he HAD regard for HUMAN LIFE he would have had the ABOVE EQUIPMENT? No??

C'mon guys.

He went above and beyond negligence by not having the common equipment used to administer ANY anesthesia. He went above and beyond negligence by not calling an ambulance when he discovered that Michael was in some sort of arrest. Murray couldn't even perform CPR properly!! Why didn't he remove Michael off the bed when performing his one handed CPR? Didn't want anyone in the room to notice that RIGOR was starting to set in?

When the EMT's got there, they wanted to call it - meaning they wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.. but because Murray was the ranking physician, the EMT's had to follow his orders and take Michael to the hospital while working on Michael in vain. Michael was dead and long gone by the time he got to UCLA medical center. The EMT records are on TMZ so don't ask me to link them here. You can find it.

Was Dr. Murray negligent? Sure. Now lets prove murder in the second degree. Was there malice? A willful disregard of human life? Did Dr. Murray cover anything up while in the house? Why did he take 40 plus minutes to call for help? Why didn't he know common CPR? He's a cardiologist, correct? How could he NOT know the proper way to administer CPR? And since he's a Doctor, why didn't he have the proper equipment to monitor Michael Jackson? Why did he flee the hospital after Michael's death? Remember, no one could find Dr. Murray. Why didn't he SIGN the death certificate? Ephedrine was found in Michael's body and we all know Ephedrine is commonly used in conjunction with anesthesia like Diprivan in order to treat hypotenstion (Low Blood Pressure). How much was given to Michael during the 6 weeks Murray treated him? How many close calls did Michael Jackson have under Dr. Murray's care? Did Dr. Murray care?? Or did he have a willful disregard of a human life by administering without having equipment and specialists to monitor Michael Jackson while he was under sedation? MURRAY is the one in control because HE IS THE PHYSICIAN. Michael is the patient who was given a lethal dose or dosages of Propofol and other drugs, which ended his life.

These are the questions that a grand jury will probably answer. Matter of fact a Grand Jury was already convened and Murray's girlfriend was questioned. I have a feeling they are trying to determine which charge to go for and I'm betting that the D.A. is going to go for Murder 2 because there was a willful disregard of human life which resulted in death. Murray didn't mean for Michael Jackson to die. But because he was SO careless, Michael DIED.

*sigh*

Even Dr. Kevorkian even used a HEART MONITOR - damn.
 
Beachlover said:
This is not the Physicians Desk Reference. I think we have to go there because he is not bound to read other journals. (yes...it is a pain in the neck...I know)
Click to expand...

again , the manufacturer has very similar instructions printed on the bottles nd murray failed to follow them , what is these journals are more comprehensive explanation but the basic instructions are provided by the manufacturer and murray was BOUND by law to follow them else his patient would certainly die and this is what happened with mj .
 
Trish said:
Everyone here is parsing hairs. I don't get it??

Dr. Conrad Murray is responsible for Michael Jackson's untimely death. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Dr. Conrad Murray is not a trained anesthesiologist, yet, he gave Michael Jackson a substance (Diprivan) that he wasn't trained in giving. There was no heart monitoring equipment, no blood pressure monitor, nothing to monitor Michael Jackson's oxygen levels. There were no breathing apparatuses. There was no defibrillator. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this doctor had a willful disregard of human life because if he HAD regard for HUMAN LIFE he would have had the ABOVE EQUIPMENT? No??

C'mon guys.

He went above and beyond negligence by not having the common equipment used to administer ANY anesthesia. He went above and beyond negligence by not calling an ambulance when he discovered that Michael was in some sort of arrest. Murray couldn't even perform CPR properly!! Why didn't he remove Michael off the bed when performing his one handed CPR? Didn't want anyone in the room to notice that RIGOR was starting to set in?

When the EMT's got there, they wanted to call it - meaning they wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.. but because Murray was the ranking physician, the EMT's had to follow his orders and take Michael to the hospital while working on Michael in vain. Michael was dead and long gone by the time he got to UCLA medical center. The EMT records are on TMZ so don't ask me to link them here. You can find it.

Was Dr. Murray negligent? Sure. Now lets prove murder in the second degree. Was there malice? A willful disregard of human life? Did Dr. Murray cover anything up while in the house? Why did he take 40 plus minutes to call for help? Why didn't he know common CPR? He's a cardiologist, correct? How could he NOT know the proper way to administer CPR? And since he's a Doctor, why didn't he have the proper equipment to monitor Michael Jackson? Why did he flee the hospital after Michael's death? Remember, no one could find Dr. Murray. Why didn't he SIGN the death certificate? Ephedrine was found in Michael's body and we all know Ephedrine is commonly used in conjunction with anesthesia like Diprivan in order to treat hypotenstion (Low Blood Pressure). How much was given to Michael during the 6 weeks Murray treated him? How many close calls did Michael Jackson have under Dr. Murray's care? Did Dr. Murray care?? Or did he have a willful disregard of a human life by administering without having equipment and specialists to monitor Michael Jackson while he was under sedation? MURRAY is the one in control because HE IS THE PHYSICIAN. Michael is the patient who was given a lethal dose or dosages of Propofol and other drugs, which ended his life.

These are the questions that a grand jury will probably answer. Matter of fact a Grand Jury was already convened and Murray's girlfriend was questioned. I have a feeling they are trying to determine which charge to go for and I'm betting that the D.A. is going to go for Murder 2 because there was a willful disregard of human life which resulted in death. Murray didn't mean for Michael Jackson to die. But because he was SO careless, Michael DIED.

*sigh*

Even Dr. Kevorkian even used a HEART MONITOR - damn.
Click to expand...

exactly spot on :(
 
Trish said:
Everyone here is parsing hairs. I don't get it??

Dr. Conrad Murray is responsible for Michael Jackson's untimely death. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Dr. Conrad Murray is not a trained anesthesiologist, yet, he gave Michael Jackson a substance (Diprivan) that he wasn't trained in giving. There was no heart monitoring equipment, no blood pressure monitor, nothing to monitor Michael Jackson's oxygen levels. There were no breathing apparatuses. There was no defibrillator. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this doctor had a willful disregard of human life because if he HAD regard for HUMAN LIFE he would have had the ABOVE EQUIPMENT? No??

C'mon guys.

He went above and beyond negligence by not having the common equipment used to administer ANY anesthesia. He went above and beyond negligence by not calling an ambulance when he discovered that Michael was in some sort of arrest. Murray couldn't even perform CPR properly!! Why didn't he remove Michael off the bed when performing his one handed CPR? Didn't want anyone in the room to notice that RIGOR was starting to set in?

When the EMT's got there, they wanted to call it - meaning they wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.. but because Murray was the ranking physician, the EMT's had to follow his orders and take Michael to the hospital while working on Michael in vain. Michael was dead and long gone by the time he got to UCLA medical center. The EMT records are on TMZ so don't ask me to link them here. You can find it.

Was Dr. Murray negligent? Sure. Now lets prove murder in the second degree. Was there malice? A willful disregard of human life? Did Dr. Murray cover anything up while in the house? Why did he take 40 plus minutes to call for help? Why didn't he know common CPR? He's a cardiologist, correct? How could he NOT know the proper way to administer CPR? And since he's a Doctor, why didn't he have the proper equipment to monitor Michael Jackson? Why did he flee the hospital after Michael's death? Remember, no one could find Dr. Murray. Why didn't he SIGN the death certificate? Ephedrine was found in Michael's body and we all know Ephedrine is commonly used in conjunction with anesthesia like Diprivan in order to treat hypotenstion (Low Blood Pressure). How much was given to Michael during the 6 weeks Murray treated him? How many close calls did Michael Jackson have under Dr. Murray's care? Did Dr. Murray care?? Or did he have a willful disregard of a human life by administering without having equipment and specialists to monitor Michael Jackson while he was under sedation? MURRAY is the one in control because HE IS THE PHYSICIAN. Michael is the patient who was given a lethal dose or dosages of Propofol and other drugs, which ended his life.

These are the questions that a grand jury will probably answer. Matter of fact a Grand Jury was already convened and Murray's girlfriend was questioned. I have a feeling they are trying to determine which charge to go for and I'm betting that the D.A. is going to go for Murder 2 because there was a willful disregard of human life which resulted in death. Murray didn't mean for Michael Jackson to die. But because he was SO careless, Michael DIED.

*sigh*

Even Dr. Kevorkian even used a HEART MONITOR - damn.
Click to expand...

This post should be read by everyone.
 
Trish said:
Everyone here is parsing hairs. I don't get it??

Dr. Conrad Murray is responsible for Michael Jackson's untimely death. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Dr. Conrad Murray is not a trained anesthesiologist, yet, he gave Michael Jackson a substance (Diprivan) that he wasn't trained in giving. There was no heart monitoring equipment, no blood pressure monitor, nothing to monitor Michael Jackson's oxygen levels. There were no breathing apparatuses. There was no defibrillator. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this doctor had a willful disregard of human life because if he HAD regard for HUMAN LIFE he would have had the ABOVE EQUIPMENT? No??

C'mon guys.

He went above and beyond negligence by not having the common equipment used to administer ANY anesthesia. He went above and beyond negligence by not calling an ambulance when he discovered that Michael was in some sort of arrest. Murray couldn't even perform CPR properly!! Why didn't he remove Michael off the bed when performing his one handed CPR? Didn't want anyone in the room to notice that RIGOR was starting to set in?

When the EMT's got there, they wanted to call it - meaning they wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.. but because Murray was the ranking physician, the EMT's had to follow his orders and take Michael to the hospital while working on Michael in vain. Michael was dead and long gone by the time he got to UCLA medical center. The EMT records are on TMZ so don't ask me to link them here. You can find it.

Was Dr. Murray negligent? Sure. Now lets prove murder in the second degree. Was there malice? A willful disregard of human life? Did Dr. Murray cover anything up while in the house? Why did he take 40 plus minutes to call for help? Why didn't he know common CPR? He's a cardiologist, correct? How could he NOT know the proper way to administer CPR? And since he's a Doctor, why didn't he have the proper equipment to monitor Michael Jackson? Why did he flee the hospital after Michael's death? Remember, no one could find Dr. Murray. Why didn't he SIGN the death certificate? Ephedrine was found in Michael's body and we all know Ephedrine is commonly used in conjunction with anesthesia like Diprivan in order to treat hypotenstion (Low Blood Pressure). How much was given to Michael during the 6 weeks Murray treated him? How many close calls did Michael Jackson have under Dr. Murray's care? Did Dr. Murray care?? Or did he have a willful disregard of a human life by administering without having equipment and specialists to monitor Michael Jackson while he was under sedation? MURRAY is the one in control because HE IS THE PHYSICIAN. Michael is the patient who was given a lethal dose or dosages of Propofol and other drugs, which ended his life.

These are the questions that a grand jury will probably answer. Matter of fact a Grand Jury was already convened and Murray's girlfriend was questioned. I have a feeling they are trying to determine which charge to go for and I'm betting that the D.A. is going to go for Murder 2 because there was a willful disregard of human life which resulted in death. Murray didn't mean for Michael Jackson to die. But because he was SO careless, Michael DIED.

*sigh*

Even Dr. Kevorkian even used a HEART MONITOR - damn.
Click to expand...

onething also Murray did not allow the paramedics to move mj immeditaley to UCLA eventhough there was no medical justification for that 43 minutes delay . add to that lorazepam was indeed a contributing factor to his death , murray claimed he gave a drug that would have countered it effect yet no such drug was detected in mj's system , the drug found in his bag and not detected in mj's body won't make things very pleasant to the jurors
 
Trish said:
Everyone here is parsing hairs. I don't get it??

Dr. Conrad Murray is responsible for Michael Jackson's untimely death. There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Dr. Conrad Murray is not a trained anesthesiologist, yet, he gave Michael Jackson a substance (Diprivan) that he wasn't trained in giving. There was no heart monitoring equipment, no blood pressure monitor, nothing to monitor Michael Jackson's oxygen levels. There were no breathing apparatuses. There was no defibrillator. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that this doctor had a willful disregard of human life because if he HAD regard for HUMAN LIFE he would have had the ABOVE EQUIPMENT? No??

C'mon guys.

He went above and beyond negligence by not having the common equipment used to administer ANY anesthesia. He went above and beyond negligence by not calling an ambulance when he discovered that Michael was in some sort of arrest. Murray couldn't even perform CPR properly!! Why didn't he remove Michael off the bed when performing his one handed CPR? Didn't want anyone in the room to notice that RIGOR was starting to set in?

When the EMT's got there, they wanted to call it - meaning they wanted to declare Michael Jackson dead.. but because Murray was the ranking physician, the EMT's had to follow his orders and take Michael to the hospital while working on Michael in vain. Michael was dead and long gone by the time he got to UCLA medical center. The EMT records are on TMZ so don't ask me to link them here. You can find it.

Was Dr. Murray negligent? Sure. Now lets prove murder in the second degree. Was there malice? A willful disregard of human life? Did Dr. Murray cover anything up while in the house? Why did he take 40 plus minutes to call for help? Why didn't he know common CPR? He's a cardiologist, correct? How could he NOT know the proper way to administer CPR? And since he's a Doctor, why didn't he have the proper equipment to monitor Michael Jackson? Why did he flee the hospital after Michael's death? Remember, no one could find Dr. Murray. Why didn't he SIGN the death certificate? Ephedrine was found in Michael's body and we all know Ephedrine is commonly used in conjunction with anesthesia like Diprivan in order to treat hypotenstion (Low Blood Pressure). How much was given to Michael during the 6 weeks Murray treated him? How many close calls did Michael Jackson have under Dr. Murray's care? Did Dr. Murray care?? Or did he have a willful disregard of a human life by administering without having equipment and specialists to monitor Michael Jackson while he was under sedation? MURRAY is the one in control because HE IS THE PHYSICIAN. Michael is the patient who was given a lethal dose or dosages of Propofol and other drugs, which ended his life.

These are the questions that a grand jury will probably answer. Matter of fact a Grand Jury was already convened and Murray's girlfriend was questioned. I have a feeling they are trying to determine which charge to go for and I'm betting that the D.A. is going to go for Murder 2 because there was a willful disregard of human life which resulted in death. Murray didn't mean for Michael Jackson to die. But because he was SO careless, Michael DIED.

*sigh*

Even Dr. Kevorkian even used a HEART MONITOR - damn.
Click to expand...

you're so right about everything
 
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