Michael Jackson's doctor says others gave him propofol

[Memefan]

In all fairness, how can you blame doctors doing a procedure on his face for this? Do you think that you would be able to stand having your face cut or needles stuck in it, near your eyes and other painful places if you were awake for it? Just to be fair.

Do you think Hoefflin agreed to do all these facial surgeries because they WERE required...or was it an excuse to get Propofol? If Hoefflin was a good doctor, he would have tell his patient he had had enough cosmetic surgery around the Bad era. But greed wouldn't let him counsel his patient and took him ti the wrong path.

But he kept doing surgeries on MJ's face to the point where he messed up Michael's face, that is not ethical.

 

[Soundmind]

propofol is not great not wonderful even when it is administered properly..if someone needs to be administered w Dipravi-Propol just to go to sleep outside of a hospital setting or a surgery taking place there is something wrong!
Sleep should be natural if someone is insomniac proper care and assistance should be given..propofol hardly fits the term of "proper care and assistance" for an insomnia...
and this where it all starts....why wasnt MJ given proper care and assistance to manage his insomnia for YEARS?! how did he became such a SEVERE insomniac?! that is what also should be investigated..not just what happened on that tragic night

he had always been a severe insomniac especially when he rehearsed or toured , what happened during the history tour and then again during the rehearsal for This is it "I finaly got something to make me get some rest when I HAVE NO CHOICE but to do so "

 

[Soundmind]

Do you think Hoefflin agreed to do all these facial surgeries because they WERE required...or was it an excuse to get Propofol? If Hoefflin was a good doctor, he would have tell his patient he had had enough cosmetic surgery around the Bad era. But greed wouldn't let him counsel his patient and took him ti the wrong path.

But he kept doing surgeries on MJ's face to the point where he messed up Michael's face, that is not ethical.

Hoefflin and Klien both are mentally unstable and both destroyed mj's beautiful face because both were ugly creatures in the inside .

are you suggesting that mj did these surgeries to receive propofol?

well, during the history tour he certainly needed no such excuse to get it .

 

[Ramona122003]

Do you think Hoefflin agreed to do all these facial surgeries because they WERE required...or was it an excuse to get Propofol? If Hoefflin was a good doctor, he would have tell his patient he had had enough cosmetic surgery around the Bad era. But greed wouldn't let him counsel his patient and took him ti the wrong path.

But he kept doing surgeries on MJ's face to the point where he messed up Michael's face, that is not ethical.

No offense, but since we have no idea what proceeders he actually had done, you cannot say if he had 'too much'. You also do not know the situation of these operations, so we are in no position to judge.

Also, I heavily doubt Michael had surgery just to get Propofol since he clearly had no problem taking it without surgery.

 

[loveforever]

Michael suffered from insomnia, I believe he did seek the proper and safe treatments for his insomnia during those years. but when he was on tour or rehearse, he had to sleep. he tried the sleeping pills but those didn't work. when the doctor you trust told you "propofol is safe, don't worry, I will watch you.", propofol became the best choice and his temporary treatment to keep him 8 hours rest.
you have to keep in mind, michael only used propofol when he was on tour, all he wanted is to sleep for next day performance.

 

[RainbowAngel]

they did everything by the book , they were at least two doctors , one of them an anaethesist , all the necessary equipments were available . a mini clinic was there . by the law they did everything right , they were 'innovative' in using it as a 'sleep aid' . that was it .


again Dr.Adams adminiter it to 6000 patients in 8 years and no one died .

propofol is GREAT , WONDERFUL drug when administered properly .

What kind of doctors did MJ had? All those doctors are only after big money so they won't tell MJ to take herbal medicine and treat his problem the natural way like rehabilitation or cancel his tour. They gave his most expensive medicine and it's doesn't matter how safe it is or what kind of long term side effects it will have later. Poor MJ.
Yeah, MJ had a more responsible entourage with all the equipments needed to "treat" his illness during History tour but for TII tour, he had a crappy doctor and people around who didn't really care.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

Well to be fair, a persons body can become used, so to speak, to certain forms of medicine to the point where they simply don't work anymore, So to say that his sleep issue was something that can easily be cured really isn't fair unless your his personal physician and knew about everything that went on inside the mans body. With my illness, I've told wrong countless times about what works for me and what doesn't by those who claim to be professionals in their field of work, when I know for experience, it doesn't work for me, thats when my personal physician steps in and lets those others know to comply to what I ask for.


When suffering from medical shortcomings even as simple as insomnia, there's a chance that over time, what once worked for you, doesn't work anymore. Once you finally find the thing that works, that becomes your preferrable option to fix whats wrong, its happened to me. So we don't really know what Michael tried using before getting into propofol, so to act as if we do, isn't really fair.

 

[indranee]

Soundmind, the thing about Adams bothers me. so he refused to pair up with Murray because of family reasons. the whole thing with Ratner and the other German doctor is interesting. one puts him to sleep, the other wakes him up. that means both the doctors got some rest during part of the night while Michael was under. Murray decided to do this all by himself. what does that mean? does that mean he was foregoing sleep himself?

what if he did fall asleep (didn't we hear a rumor about that)? what if part of his lies was that he wasn't able to stay awake part of the night to watch Michael. apart from the lack of monitors, this would definitely be possible.

I dunno. it just seems to me to be too much for just one man to handle. our bodies are tied naturally to the diurnal cycle (even Mike felt that despite his vampiric tendencies (meaning he become more alert in the evening... I'm like that too)). and Murray was supposed to stay awake for 8 hours at night, every night.

 

[BubblesLuvsMichael]

But Murray is the one that gave him the propofol that caused his death. He admitted giving it to him. Other doctors should not have given it either but Murray was the one that did that day and he was negligent and careless. He is responsible and should be held accountable for the choices he made that day.

:agree: :clapping: Exactly, I agree with everything you just said, couldn't of put it any better myself as far as I'm concerned Murray was the last person to administer the drugs therefore in my eyes he's the one that's responsible.

 

[8701girl]

:agree: :clapping: Exactly, I agree with everything you just said, couldn't of put it any better myself as far as I'm concerned Murray was the last person to administer the drugs therefore in my eyes he's the one that's responsible.

I agree!

 

[Soundmind]

Michael suffered from insomnia, I believe he did seek the proper and safe treatments for his insomnia during those years. but when he was on tour or rehearse, he had to sleep. he tried the sleeping pills but those didn't work. when the doctor you trust told you "propofol is safe, don't worry, I will watch you.", propofol became the best choice and his temporary treatment to keep him 8 hours rest.
you have to keep in mind, michael only used propofol when he was on tour, all he wanted is to sleep for next day performance.

I think mj sould have not taken propofol, I think he should have rehearsed for 24 hours each day, who needs to sleep , only human beings sleep yeah and even animals have the right to sleep but not Michael Jackson . and I think he had no right to complain of severe insomnia , he should not have taken painkillers when his head was burnd , he should have suffered and suffered , that was the solution. if he did not take those painkillers, his tolerance would not have been build up and he would not have used propofol and he would not have been dead and I would be now in London watching him entertain my ass because my entertainment and my pleasure are first before his pains and suffer , I'm human , he was not .

also when Randy stole his money he should have not sued his team of lawyers and accountants, he had no right to question his motives , Randy knew better , janet believed so , I believe janet , Michael did not know what was best for him , janet did .

he also should have joined his brothers on tour , because he owed them everything , katherine believed so , but he refused to listen to her , so she had to step and hold an intervention because God forbid there was a problem with her sons , the problem was MJ .

I think he should not have moaned about joe , what's wrong with being stripped off your cloths , oiled and then beaten , joe was his father who refused to allow him to call him dad , still mj was a spoiled kid and ungrateful son and backstabbing brother , and junkie father ......etc .

 

[Ramona122003]

What kind of doctors did MJ had? All those doctors are only after big money so they won't tell MJ to take herbal medicine and treat his problem the natural way like rehabilitation or cancel his tour. They gave his most expensive medicine and it's doesn't matter how safe it is or what kind of long term side effects it will have later. Poor MJ.
Yeah, MJ had a more responsible entourage with all the equipments needed to "treat" his illness during History tour but for TII tour, he had a crappy doctor and people around who didn't really care.

Actually, Michael did take herbal medications for his insomnia before he died. It was given to him by Nurse Lee who was trying to treat his insomnia with a more natural solution. She had stated herself that she would give him herbs to sleep, but he would just wake up in less than 4 hours and couldn't fall back to sleep. She even changed his diet and gave him vitamins, but they did not work either.

So, that says that Michael was not full of crap when he said other medication did not work for him and he did try other solutions. He has also suffer from insomnia for most of his life, even when he was a preteen, so if it was easily 'cure', it would had been done years ago.

 

[marebear]

I think mj sould have not taken propofol, I think he should have rehearsed for 24 hours each day, who needs to sleep , only human beings sleep yeah and even animals have the right to sleep but not Michael Jackson . and I think he had no right to complain of severe insomnia , he should not have taken painkillers when his head was burnd , he should have suffered and suffered , that was the solution. if he did not take those painkillers, his tolerance would not have been build up and he would not have used propofol and he would not have been dead and I would be now in London watching him entertain my ass because my entertainment and my pleasure are first before his pains and suffer , I'm human , he was not .

also when Randy stole his money he should have not sued his team of lawyers and accountants, he had no right to question his motives , Randy knew better , janet believed so , I believe janet , Michael did not know what was best for him , janet did .

he also should have joined his brothers on tour , because he owed them everything , katherine believed so , but he refused to listen to her , so she had to step and hold an intervention because God forbid there was a problem with her sons , the problem was MJ .

I think he should not have moaned about joe , what's wrong with being stripped off your cloths , oiled and then beaten , joe was his father who refused to allow him to call him dad , still mj was a spoiled kid and ungrateful son and backstabbing brother , and junkie father ......etc .

What?

 

[Ramona122003]

I think mj sould have not taken propofol, I think he should have rehearsed for 24 hours each day, who needs to sleep , only human beings sleep yeah and even animals have the right to sleep but not Michael Jackson . and I think he had no right to complain of severe insomnia , he should not have taken painkillers when his head was burnd , he should have suffered and suffered , that was the solution. if he did not take those painkillers, his tolerance would not have been build up and he would not have used propofol and he would not have been dead and I would be now in London watching him entertain my ass because my entertainment and my pleasure are first before his pains and suffer , I'm human , he was not .

also when Randy stole his money he should have not sued his team of lawyers and accountants, he had no right to question his motives , Randy knew better , janet believed so , I believe janet , Michael did not know what was best for him , janet did .

he also should have joined his brothers on tour , because he owed them everything , katherine believed so , but he refused to listen to her , so she had to step and hold an intervention because God forbid there was a problem with her sons , the problem was MJ .

I think he should not have moaned about joe , what's wrong with being stripped off your cloths , oiled and then beaten , joe was his father who refused to allow him to call him dad , still mj was a spoiled kid and ungrateful son and backstabbing brother , and junkie father ......etc .

Who are you ranting against? No one said any of these things.

 

[Soundmind]

Soundmind, the thing about Adams bothers me. so he refused to pair up with Murray because of family reasons. the whole thing with Ratner and the other German doctor is interesting. one puts him to sleep, the other wakes him up. that means both the doctors got some rest during part of the night while Michael was under. Murray decided to do this all by himself. what does that mean? does that mean he was foregoing sleep himself?

what if he did fall asleep (didn't we hear a rumor about that)? what if part of his lies was that he wasn't able to stay awake part of the night to watch Michael. apart from the lack of monitors, this would definitely be possible.

I dunno. it just seems to me to be too much for just one man to handle. our bodies are tied naturally to the diurnal cycle (even Mike felt that despite his vampiric tendencies (meaning he become more alert in the evening... I'm like that too)). and Murray was supposed to stay awake for 8 hours at night, every night.

I don't know what Adams reasons were to refuse, I know one thing one of murray's clients who defended him said murray contacted a friend of him who was a doctor himself to join him as mj's doctors and that doctor declined because of family and other patients. whether that doctor was Adams or not i have no idea , but be sure Adams was no friend of murray .


sleeping , was a very simple answer and explanation for what happened , but something tells me he can't claim that for whatever reason .

no one would be able to sleep in a bedroom with firepalces on in june in california , NO WAY .

he certainly did not give propofol at 10.40 am , it was way before that , something happened during that night or the morning, he was seen outside the bedroom before that time and that's why he pushed the timeline to almost 11 am .

 

[Soundmind]

Who are you ranting against? No one said any of these things.

everyone who says this man was an addict because he wanted to sleep , everyone who says his family tried to hold an intervention and he denied them access, anyone who says he had other EFFECTIVE options but he used propofol regardless , anyone who blame him partially for his death . anyone who says he should not have taken meds before , even though he had medical justifications and everyone knows about it , yet they ignore it and keep talking about dependency , tolerance , addiction , intervention.

 

[Ramona122003]

everyone who says this man was an addict because he wanted to sleep , everyone who says his family tried to hold an intervention and he denied them access, anyone who says he had other EFFECTIVE options but he used propofol regardless , anyone who blame him partially for his death . anyone who says he should not have taken meds before , even though he had medical justifications and everyone knows about it , yet they ignore it and keep talking about dependency , tolerance , addiction , intervention.

I think the reason some people do this is because the world at large is ignorance about drugs and long-term illnesses.

Some people cannot understand when you have a long-term and sometime lifetime medical problem you treat it the best you can by using either medications or more natural means. The problem comes when none of these methods work for a variety of reasons. It is hard to understand with all our advancement in treating illnesses that some people are still suffering, even with all these treatment choices.

We tend to think all illnesses can be treated with the right medicine, herbs, or even physiological help. Afterall, there must be some solution for a person's medical problem. The sad fact is, that is often not the case. Just because one medicine, herb, or treatment works for one person, does not mean it will work for the next. If everything can be easily cure, people would not be ODing on medication to get some relief.

These people are often blame for their own deaths because people think that they didn't try everything. There must had been something in the world that could of helped them. They didn't need to do this. Unless you walked in that person's shoes and felt what they felt, you can never say they didn't try everything.

However, that is not how human nature works.

 

[GOLDSPACESUIT45]

I found the link on yahoo but I can't copy and pasted it now cause iam log by a iPod touch but if anyone can help me find the link I would be happy. Thank you.

 

[Sirena]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beneath the sarcasm ... you speak truths.

Agree :clapping::clapping::clapping:

I think mj sould have not taken propofol, I think he should have rehearsed for 24 hours each day, who needs to sleep , only human beings sleep yeah and even animals have the right to sleep but not Michael Jackson . and I think he had no right to complain of severe insomnia , he should not have taken painkillers when his head was burnd , he should have suffered and suffered , that was the solution. if he did not take those painkillers, his tolerance would not have been build up and he would not have used propofol and he would not have been dead and I would be now in London watching him entertain my ass because my entertainment and my pleasure are first before his pains and suffer , I'm human , he was not .

also when Randy stole his money he should have not sued his team of lawyers and accountants, he had no right to question his motives , Randy knew better , janet believed so , I believe janet , Michael did not know what was best for him , janet did .

he also should have joined his brothers on tour , because he owed them everything , katherine believed so , but he refused to listen to her , so she had to step and hold an intervention because God forbid there was a problem with her sons , the problem was MJ .

I think he should not have moaned about joe , what's wrong with being stripped off your cloths , oiled and then beaten , joe was his father who refused to allow him to call him dad , still mj was a spoiled kid and ungrateful son and backstabbing brother , and junkie father ......etc .

 

[CatherineNZ]

I think mj sould have not taken propofol, I think he should have rehearsed for 24 hours each day, who needs to sleep , only human beings sleep yeah and even animals have the right to sleep but not Michael Jackson . and I think he had no right to complain of severe insomnia , he should not have taken painkillers when his head was burnd , he should have suffered and suffered , that was the solution. if he did not take those painkillers, his tolerance would not have been build up and he would not have used propofol and he would not have been dead and I would be now in London watching him entertain my ass because my entertainment and my pleasure are first before his pains and suffer , I'm human , he was not .

also when Randy stole his money he should have not sued his team of lawyers and accountants, he had no right to question his motives , Randy knew better , janet believed so , I believe janet , Michael did not know what was best for him , janet did .

he also should have joined his brothers on tour , because he owed them everything , katherine believed so , but he refused to listen to her , so she had to step and hold an intervention because God forbid there was a problem with her sons , the problem was MJ .

I think he should not have moaned about joe , what's wrong with being stripped off your cloths , oiled and then beaten , joe was his father who refused to allow him to call him dad , still mj was a spoiled kid and ungrateful son and backstabbing brother , and junkie father ......etc .

Bravo :clapping::clapping::clapping:
at least somebody told it!!!!!!! i'm going to copy and save that. sooo true

 

[vargak]

he had always been a severe insomniac especially when he rehearsed or toured , what happened during the history tour and then again during the rehearsal for This is it "I finaly got something to make me get some rest when I HAVE NO CHOICE but to do so "

agree. but no one is born to be a severe insomniac - people become one
it is a managable condition but it has to be cared for in the appropriate manner...
prescribing one sedative after the other stronger followed by stronger is not really appropriate care is it

 

[music65]

It all started with the 93' allegations, this is what cause the insomnia, and because he was so sensitive it cause him to think about all that was happening. As a result he could not sleep properly.

 

[Rasta Pasta]

Michael Jackson's Doc Shipped Propofol From Vegas to LA, Records Show

E! Online - Natalie Finn - ‎7 hours ago‎
AP Photo/Houston Chronicle, Pool Photographer Dr. Conrad Murray has admitted to giving Michael Jackson the surgical anesthetic propofol to help him sleep, ...
Nevada: Records on Jackson Death New York Times

Michael Jackson's doctor bought powerful anesthetic a month before singer's ... Los Angeles Times

Warrant: Drug in Jackson case came from Vegas firm The Associated Press

ABC News - AFP

 

[Sophielo]

We can all speculate as to what happened, what should have happened, why was he given propofol to help him sleep, should MJ be held accountable due to personal responsibility, should the HIStory doctors have given it to him in the first place etc but here are the facts here. Dr Conrad Murray bought vials of Propofol from a Las Vegas pharmacy. Dr Conad Murray, despite having little or no training in adminstering anesthesia decides to do it anyway. Dr Conrad Murray does this with no medical equipment in the room in case anything goes wrong. On the morning of June 25th 2009 Dr Conrad Murray, after adminstering sedatives all night to get Michael Jackson to sleep finally adminsters Propofol. Michael Jackson 'goes under.' Dr Conrad Murray LEAVES the room to make phone calls. Dr Conrad Murray returns to find Michael Jackson not breathing. Michael Jackson later dies from 'acute Propofol intoxication.' The investigation is later ruled 'homicide' and 'death at the hands of another.'

All the speculation in the world does not change things. It is Dr Conrad Murray who's negligence resulted in a man's death. Dr Conrad Murray should not only never be allowed to pactice medicene again but should also be in jail.

 

[vargak]

It all started with the 93' allegations, this is what cause the insomnia, and because he was so sensitive it cause him to think about all that was happening. As a result he could not sleep properly.

you are on the right track....it began before 93...93 and what happened afterwards were contributing factors...

 

[vargak]

All the speculation in the world does not change things. It is Dr Conrad Murray who's negligence resulted in a man's death. Dr Conrad Murray should not only never be allowed to pactice medicene again but should also be in jail.

agree...I would also like to see those held responsible who have not provided acceptable level of care and management of MJs insomnia over the years..

 

[hilliver]

If this is Murrey's defence then it just doesn't cut it. Others like Klein may have given it to him legitimatelly for proceedures, and it doesn't matter who else had done it in the past, it does not excuse Murrey for giving it to him for no legitimate purpose, if he suspected Michael was addicted it was the very reason why he should not have given it to him.

Murrey had no means of monitoring him and no means of dealing with a crisis, either he left Michael alone while he died, or he did find him with a pulse and still waited before calling for help, CPR on a domestic bed!

Murrey is scratching around for a defence and he has none. Michael was introduced to this drug by doctors and any of them that gave him the stuff for any other purpose than medical proceedures should also be prosecuted, but Murrey is the man who enventually killed him and he should be jailed for it.

 

[MJstarlight]

I don't know what Adams reasons were to refuse, I know one thing one of murray's clients who defended him said murray contacted a friend of him who was a doctor himself to join him as mj's doctors and that doctor declined because of family and other patients. whether that doctor was Adams or not i have no idea , but be sure Adams was no friend of murray .

sleeping , was a very simple answer and explanation for what happened , but something tells me he can't claim that for whatever reason .

no one would be able to sleep in a bedroom with firepalces on in june in california , NO WAY .

he certainly did not give propofol at 10.40 am , it was way before that , something happened during that night or the morning, he was seen outside the bedroom before that time and that's why he pushed the timeline to almost 11 am .

something still does not add up?? :scratch:

 

[snowhite]

maybe it wasn't illegal to use it at least in Europe but why would a doctor prescribe something as dangerous as propofol why? this is what I don't understand! people keep blaming Michael but I say the doctors are guilty, giving someone a dangerous anesthetic to sleep is unheard of

 

[Staffordshire Bullterrier]

Oh man, why did he even start with this 'med' in the first place. There are so much better and normal meds to fall asleep, such a shame and so sad.