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oldmoon20 said:
The whole time watching that I wanted to do this :throwingstones:
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yes and when during the Diane Sawyer interview- MJ was being goofy and playful - she glared at him ; gave him the evilest look.... man i feel so sorry for MJ for being married to her.
 
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BillieJean84 said:
Oh & my other question is how did Priscella feel about it?? I think she was disappointed or was against the whole thing??? Did she like MJ??
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Some reports are that Priscilla didn't trust MJ. That she believed MJ was just using Lisa to clean up his image after the false accusations.
 
I think it maybe went both ways. I think maybe at first she tried but than when he would leave because he just couldn't handle the fact that she wasn't getting pregnant she decided to just quit trying since he would get upset and than she began to start lying to him about it all.
 
oldmoon20 said:
I think it maybe went both ways. I think maybe at first she tried but than when he would leave because he just couldn't handle the fact that she wasn't getting pregnant she decided to just quit trying since he would get upset and than she began to start lying to him about it all.
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They were both very stubborn. They weren't communicating and working together. The marriage was strained with many issues. MJ was frustrated, spending less time with her, and she wasn't willing to be intimate with him. MJ was feeling like he was being controlled by Lisa,and she felt like he was neglecting her wants and needs, doing what he wanted regardless of how it looked, and how she felt about it. (from the book The Magic & Madness)
 
forevernmyheart said:
They were both very stubborn. They weren't communicating and working together. The marriage was strained with many issues. MJ was frustrated, spending less time with her, and she wasn't willing to be intimate with him. MJ was feeling like he was being controlled by Lisa,and she felt like he was neglecting her wants and needs, doing what he wanted regardless of how it looked, and how she felt about it. (from the book The Magic & Madness)
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Hmm... makes sense.
So them hanging out after the divorce, was it because since they were no longer married and obliged to please one another they were able to stand each other again since there wasn't as much tension and maybe less to be expected between the two of them.
 
oldmoon20 said:
Hmm... makes sense.
So them hanging out after the divorce, was it because since they were no longer married and obliged to please one another they were able to stand each other again since there wasn't as much tension and maybe less to be expected between the two of them.
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I believe they both came to some realizations. LMP & MJ had a drawing to each other in spite of their differences and issues. IMO, They had an intense attraction.
 
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forevernmyheart said:
I believe they both came to some realizations. LMP & MJ had a drawing to each other in spite of their differences and issues. IMO, They had an intense attraction.
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Your right. I think after the divorce they tried to work stuff out and at least be nice to each other. Im guessing they didnt want any animosty towards each other after the divorce, but i think no matter how hard they tried to work things out- s***it always got in the way for them.
 
Omg, I can't believe I finally managed to finish reading this fascinating thread (took me all day off & on). :)

I just wanted to give my POV, as a lifelong Lisa Fan since 1977 (I'm a little over a year older than Lisa btw). Also, I've been a Michael Jackson Fan as well practically all my life, though not as intense as a Lisa Fan (lol, I've got scrapbooks I've kept of her throughout my life).

Disclaimer: I'm a fan of BOTH of them, was overjoyed when they married & heartbroken when they divorced, not to mention devastated for the both of them when Michael died. :(

IMHO Lisa met her match in Michael, in more ways than one.

You have to understand Lisa was raised an only child, spoilt by her dad when he was alive, and though not as spoilt by her mom, still a child that was used to getting her own way, one that knew she was Elvis Presley's Daughter & what that entailed, and she ruled the roose when she was at Graceland! The opposite was true when she was with her mom. Her mom came first, even Michael Edwards (Priscilla's boyfriend from 1978-1984; he also wrote a book entitled "Priscilla, Elvis, & Me") said that both Priscilla & Lisa Marie had one thing in common ~ it was all about them ~ he recalled one time when they were getting into his brand new jeep to go have a picnic down at the beach, and how Priscilla & Lisa fought to be the ONE that got to sit in the front seat (of course her mom won), but what stood out to him years later was the fact that each one had to get her way. This ties into how he said Priscilla used him to try to get into modeling with the Ford Modeling Agency. As soon as she found out that he was model for said company she went after him at the party they both met at, plying him with questions about the company, how she wanted to model, et al. He told her she was gorgeous enough to do commercials, but was too short for the runway, and this was reaffirmed by Eileen Ford, whom told her the same thing. Thus, her dreams of being a top model were dashed, however she still managed to do a few Wella Balsam Shampoo Commercials. Also, she partnered with a friend to start their short-lived children's boutique after she divorced Elvis. And she had a few minor roles as an actress. Not to mention she was fortunate to oversee Elvis's Estate. All this due to her having pursued & eventually married the most famous rock star of her era. She's always been proud of the fact that she was the only one to become Mrs. Elvis Presley. She said she hung on, despite everything (i.e. Elvis's fooling around, long absences, etc.), and in the end she got what she dreamed of ~ she became Mrs. Elvis Presley.

The reason why I discuss Priscilla Beaulieu Presley is because in order to understand Lisa (& subsequently Lisa's marriage & relationship to Michael Jackson) you first have to start with her mom (& dad). It all goes back to them. Your parent(s) are your role models after all, and children generally emulate what they see around them from such a young age. And in Lisa's case she saw her mom, this beautiful creature, perfect, well-mannered, polite, never cussing, proper, a lady. Whereas OTOH, there was her dad, this larger-than-life figure, totally opposite from her mom, whom spoiled her & let her stay up all hours of the night when she was with him. To her he must have seemed like a God. Then he dies, and she's left with her mom, whom she also adores, but no matter how much she tries she cannot please. Priscilla wanted Lisa to be bilingual & enrolls her in a preppy school, which Lisa failed horribly at, then she makes her take piano lessons, which also didn't work out. And all during this time Priscilla is not a stay-at-home mom, no, she's too busy with her career & life after Elvis. Going to parties, setting up a boutique, modeling, doing shows, acting on the t.v. show Dallas, taking acting lessons, living with her live-in-lover Michael Edwards, et al. You get the picture, it's all about Priscilla. No wonder Lisa turned out the way she did. Her adoring famous father dies, her mom's too busy with her own life to really care about being a devoted stay-at-home mom to her young daughter, instead leaving her in the care of an aur pair couple, and Michael Edwards as well (one whom came into her bedroom at night just to stare at Elvis's Daughter, creepy). So Lisa rebels by taking drugs & running around with a boy almost twice her age, has sex for the first time at the age of 15 (one week after her 15th birthday btw), all a cry for attention. Finally, things come to a head when she's 17, after a 3-day drug binge she (with the help of her mom) checks herself into the Scientology Celebrity Centre to get off drugs & get clean, which Thank God she did. :)

While at the aforementioned Centre she becomes interested in a guy named Danny Keough, also a Scientologist & a young musician in his own right (having played with his own band), whom she also thinks looks like her dad, and who is already in a relationship with another girl. But Lisa doesn't care, she wants him for herself, so goes after him with a vengeance and eventually wins him in the end. They date for a couple of years & she eventually becomes pregnant at the age of 20 (right before she spent the summer in England in 1988), and she & Danny get married & have little Riley Keough in May of 1989. Lisa becomes restless, though she adores her new baby, she wants to do something. She takes acting lessons, but they go nowhere, then she writes songs with her hubby with perhaps hopes of singing herself one day. But what's looming above all others is the fact that when she turns 25 she will inherit her dad's entire estate. So to prepare for that fact she decides that her little family needs to move from the modest home they were living in to a gated community into a house that is the size of Graceland. Of course she gets her way, as usual, despite the fact that her hubby Danny was not pleased. He sees not the young girl he dated & married years before, but now an heiress in the making. This makes him uncomfortable, as he wants to be the man/the breadwinner in the relationship, but that's impossible now. So this creates marital discord. They try to work things out, Lisa even becoming pregnant with her second child (as she doesn't want Riley to be an only child like she was, knowing all too well the pain of being an only child), so she gives birth to Benjamin in the Fall of 1992.

All well this is going on, Lisa had cut a demo of Aretha Franklin's classic hit "Baby, I Love You", and her dad's manager Jerry Schilling had procured a record deal for her based on this demo. However, she became pregant with Benjamin, so had to put it on hold. Now this is when things get interesting. Lisa is unhappy with her marriage to Danny, and in walks Michael Jackson. The same Michael Jackson that had asked his manager years before to help him set up a date with Lisa Marie Presley, even going so far as to personally ask Priscilla Presley himself if he could meet her daughter well she was on the set of Dallas. Priscilla recants this episode verbatim in her interview with Oprah in 2005. Btw, both she & Michael had a mutual acquaintance (think they both shared the same manager), which is how Michael managed to meet Priscilla, for the sole purpose of asking her if he could meet her daughter Lisa. Unfortunately, Priscilla balked, and said "she's only 16, no"; something about how he was too old for her (Michael was 26 at the time). Readers, don't you find this ironic? ;) Lol, Priscilla was only 14 when she met 24 yr. old Elvis, and 16 yrs. old when she went to live with him in Graceland.

***Note: Lisa's male relatives on her dad's side have mentioned on several talk shows, magazines, etc., how Priscilla was jealous of her daughter Lisa. She didn't want Lisa getting more attention than herself, thus she always held her back, didn't even want her to sing, made her feel insecure. Instead of encouraging her, she did the opposite. This is one of the reasons why they felt Lisa married Michael, to get out from under her, they mentioned this way back in 1994/95.***

Okay, back to the story, however it happens, Lisa & Michael finally meet in December of 1992 at a mutual acquaintance's house (i.e. the famous painter). Lisa's there to play Michael her demo, as Michael said he was interested in hearing it, but instead she finds herself fascinated by Michael. Because at first she didn't want to meet him, she thought he was weird, etc., but when she finally did she was blown away! He was nothing like his public persona, he sets her straight from the get go, and they hit it off, calling one another, developing a close friendship, even eventually secretly traveling together for a few charity functions. She confides in him her marital woes, and Michael starts to court her in earnest when she separates from Danny (& his own troubles blow up in his face), eventually leading to Lisa divorcing her first husband Danny Keough & marrying Michael Jackson in May of 1994.

As was Michael's gentlemanly ways & morals/values, he waited until he was married before he lost his virginity (per LaToya Jackson, whom said Michael lost his virginity at the age of 35). Btw, I find this part fascinating as well in regards to the similarity between Priscilla & Elvis (i.e. Priscilla was a virgin when she married Elvis, just like Michael was when he married Lisa, not only that both Priscilla & Michael were the prim & proper well-mannered polite ones). Lol, only Lisa & Elvis were not. :D And like the old saying goes, you marry first for love, second for convenience, and third for companionship. So Michael obviously married Lisa for love. :) Yes, Michael was suffering through the child molestation allegations at the time, but to me this was just a coincidence, as he met & courted Lisa at least a year before that happened. And she was there for him when it did eventually blow up in the public, and she was his shoulder to cry on throughout it all. It strengthened their relationship, two against the world. Unfortunately, it fell apart due not only to their stubborness on both sides, but also outside forces played a significant role (re: mother-in-law Priscilla Presley, whom couldn't stand Michael, and made it known to Lisa, whispering in her ear).

Now I go back to what I said way earlier about Lisa being used to having her own way, an only child, et al. Well she met her match in Michael Jackson. He was no pushover, which people tended to think just because he was an innately nice & kind man. She wanted him with her 24/7 (she even mentions in last year's PEOPLE magazine how she & Michael Lockwood have never been apart even one day). Totally the opposite with Michael Jackson, whom was a huge star in his own right, whereas the two men that Lisa said "she knew instantly she would have kids with" were basically nobodies (i.e. Danny Keough & Michael Lockwood), they followed Lisa around, not the other way around. They did & do her bidding, not so Michael Jackson & Nicolas Cage. No wonder Lisa had kids with the two former ones, as she could have her way with them, she was in charge, she was the star, the man of the house if you will. Just like her mom with Marco Garibaldi. And unfortunately I think Lisa just might end up with her mom's fate ~ all alone in the end.

One of the saddest love stories ever IMHO, because, yes, it is obvious to me that they loved one another deeply, but they just couldn't make it work. It takes compromise on BOTH sides in order to make a successful marriage really work. Time, energy, perseverance, devotion, love, to name a few. Neither was willing to put in the time & energy, et al. Despite all that they still loved one another & couldn't get each other out of their systems, as evidenced by their songs & lyrics, as well as their actions. They say the opposite of love is hate. And obviously Lisa was a woman scorned, lashing out in hurt & anger at Michael years later, calling him a month prior to his death trying to find out what was in his mind, why did he marry her? And, unfortunately, never getting any answers. Sadly, she's suffering, and this time she might not make it through. She said after she divorced him she got sick, shriveled down to 85 pounds, had panic attacks, had her appendicts taken out, lived off of broccoli soup for a year or two, got the lead taken out of her fillings, went through hell wondering if she could've did things differently, and eventually her sadness turned to anger, thus her song-writing catharsis & the eventual release of her first album & subsequent album. And just when she was at a comfortable place in her life, married with newborn twins, Michael dies. And all the indifference she thought she built up shattered! She loved him, loves him, that is obvious. But he's gone now & there is nothing she can do about it, except talk to friends & relatives about it, write her feelings down on paper, write lyrics/songs, work on her album. But always, Michael (like Elvis) will be lurking in the background. I hope she makes it through this time around.

***Note: Linda Thompson, Elvis's ex-girlfriend & lifelong friend of Lisa Marie, has always said that she thinks Lisa saw Elvis in Michael. Thus, her connection to him, his world, trying to get to know her dad through Michael. How odd things turn out, it comes full circle. I hope her daughter & son, and Michael's kids can break the whatever-you-call-it. Choose a different path, try not to emulate their parents. JMHO.***
 
Oops, one more thing I wanted to say. Lisa likes to play games, and Michael knew this, never forget that Michael was the more intelligent one (he could see right through her games). And I think it is obvious that Michael was also the more mature one in a lot of ways that counted. For example, whereas Lisa was more concerned about just her own kids, Michael was concerned about ALL kids, not just his own. And he saved himself for marriage, which takes a heck of a lot of restraint/faith/prayer/belief in God, whereas Lisa was just the opposite. Michael knew he was not cut out for marriage, what it did to the woman, so he never married again, especially seeing what his brothers went through. No wonder Michael had a distrust of women, burned once, didn't want to be burned again. :(

And when I mention about how Lisa likes to play games, I meant she has a history of playing men against each other. For example, when she was married to Danny she used to flirt outrageously with his best friend Luke. Coincidentally, after she divorced Michael she went back to Danny, but then ended up sleeping with his best friend Luke. And in that time she also managed to get engaged to singer/musician John Ocasjewik (spelling?). And then when she hooked up with Nicolas Cage she used to make him jealous by talking to Michael Jackson all the time on the phone. You get the picture. Immature, childish behavior on the part of Lisa. I sincerely hope she has grown up & doesn't do this to Michael Lockwood. This was another observation that Michael noted & mentioned in one of his songs, about her games, as follows:




Michael Jackson lyrics►Heartbreaker lyrics



Deceitful eyes, she's got those come get me thighs
She only knows how low that she can go
She speaks the lines that can control my mind
Wherever she goes I know my eyes follow
She blew a kiss, I swear that it was meant
Only for me, then spoke with her body
Her only goal is just to take control
And I can't believe that I can´t tell her no

[CHORUS]
That girl I can't take her
Should have known she was a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right through her she's a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen it coming heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right thriough her
She's a heartbreaker

She plays a game with such an innocent face
I didn't know heartbreaking was her case
Her actions confess and put me through the test
I was surprised that I was caught inside
Now she's thinking that I will never know
Ans she'll keep playing until I let her go
But I hope in time that she will finally realize
I'm onto her game and she'll get played the same

[CHORUS 2x]

I never thought that I would stop dreamin' about you
Stop being without you
But everyone told me so, to stop caring about you
And start being without you
But I'll find a way to go and start doin' without you
And stop talkin' aboout you
And what will she say?
She will say I was the man that got away





P.S. I find it funny that Michael paid over a million dollars to obtain the Gone With The Wind Oscar around the time that he & Lisa finally broke it off in 1999/2000. Lol, methinks Scarlett reminded him of Lisa. ;)




One more thing, there's one lyric in Lisa's song "SOB" (about Michael Jackson) that I find ironic, as follows:

"you said I won't forget and I don't remember"


This is obviously not true, and Michael knew it (btw I honestly think Michael had precognition/psychic ability to a certain extent), and now Lisa knows it...
 
I just had to post reading that MJ was saving himself for marriage- reminded me of even Hugh Hefner waited for marriage. lol I know its off topic but it reminded me of that.
 
Nadine66 said:
Oops, one more thing I wanted to say. Lisa likes to play games, and Michael knew this, never forget that Michael was the more intelligent one (he could see right through her games). And I think it is obvious that Michael was also the more mature one in a lot of ways that counted. For example, whereas Lisa was more concerned about just her own kids, Michael was concerned about ALL kids, not just his own. And he saved himself for marriage, which takes a heck of a lot of restraint/faith/prayer/belief in God, whereas Lisa was just the opposite. Michael knew he was not cut out for marriage, what it did to the woman, so he never married again, especially seeing what his brothers went through. No wonder Michael had a distrust of women, burned once, didn't want to be burned again. :(

And when I mention about how Lisa likes to play games, I meant she has a history of playing men against each other. For example, when she was married to Danny she used to flirt outrageously with his best friend Luke. Coincidentally, after she divorced Michael she went back to Danny, but then ended up sleeping with his best friend Luke. And in that time she also managed to get engaged to singer/musician John Ocasjewik (spelling?). And then when she hooked up with Nicolas Cage she used to make him jealous by talking to Michael Jackson all the time on the phone. You get the picture. Immature, childish behavior on the part of Lisa. I sincerely hope she has grown up & doesn't do this to Michael Lockwood. This was another observation that Michael noted & mentioned in one of his songs, about her games, as follows:




Michael Jackson lyrics►Heartbreaker lyrics



Deceitful eyes, she's got those come get me thighs
She only knows how low that she can go
She speaks the lines that can control my mind
Wherever she goes I know my eyes follow
She blew a kiss, I swear that it was meant
Only for me, then spoke with her body
Her only goal is just to take control
And I can't believe that I can´t tell her no

[CHORUS]
That girl I can't take her
Should have known she was a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right through her she's a heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen it coming heartbreaker
That girl I can't take her
Should have seen right thriough her
She's a heartbreaker

She plays a game with such an innocent face
I didn't know heartbreaking was her case
Her actions confess and put me through the test
I was surprised that I was caught inside
Now she's thinking that I will never know
Ans she'll keep playing until I let her go
But I hope in time that she will finally realize
I'm onto her game and she'll get played the same

[CHORUS 2x]

I never thought that I would stop dreamin' about you
Stop being without you
But everyone told me so, to stop caring about you
And start being without you
But I'll find a way to go and start doin' without you
And stop talkin' aboout you
And what will she say?
She will say I was the man that got away





P.S. I find it funny that Michael paid over a million dollars to obtain the Gone With The Wind Oscar around the time that he & Lisa finally broke it off in 1999/2000. Lol, methinks Scarlett reminded him of Lisa. ;)




One more thing, there's one lyric in Lisa's song "SOB" (about Michael Jackson) that I find ironic, as follows:

"you said I won't forget and I don't remember"


This is obviously not true, and Michael knew it (btw I honestly think Michael had precognition/psychic ability to a certain extent), and now Lisa knows it...
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping: Hi, Nadine, Great Posts!
 
Linda Thompson was just another bimbo who used Elvis for money and spit him out after 4 years claiming she "tried to save him", but at the same time forgot to mention that Elvis was taking care of her entire family when he had no obligation to do so. when I look at Elvis I see so much of Michael, a man who people took advantage of for money and who was surrounded by snakes who play the best friend card when they make up stories. his reputation is now ruined forever because of them and Priscilla didn't do anything to defend him her only preoccupation was to live off his money
why did Lisa marry MJ because she loved him? she never said that before, all I ever heard was she "wanted to see what it's like" to be married to someone bigger than her. the other explanation - "I was out of my mind". in the Playboy interview she was pissed about how people were saying she used him for her career, so she needs to say she was the one who married out of love and that she was the victim and he was the manipulator
when MJ was crying at night worried about himself and his kids in 2005 she was sitting on Oprah's sofa laughing her ass off about her marriage to MJ. now she has the gall to say her husband helped her with her grief? what about Michael's pain?! how much do you bet she's going to use him to draw sympathy to herself and promote her new CD, just wait and see. speaking of joke, wasn't the Nick Cage marriage a joke? and wasn't he an Elvis fan, didn't HE use her?
when LMP called him an addict like her dad in her blog - who jumped to defend him? where were his friends when people were dancing in his grave? MJ was alone he was truly alone, his kids are the only ones who are going to stand up for him and defend him
 
Err, Michael did not lose his virginity to LMP. That was gone before he met her. He was kind of a player. Maybe not a man-whore, but he could certainly hit it when he wanted to and with whomever.
 
IrishFaery, I know there are a lot of rumours out there, but the one whom can clear it all up is dead. And another whom may know personally is not talking (at least not yet). Thus, I choose to believe what I have garnered over the years through interviews, books, et al. I know both Tatam O'Neal & Brooke Shields said he was a virgin/asexual even. And I know he was also a great kisser per Stephanie Mills, whom dated him when they filmed "The Whiz", and she also said they never had sex. Lastly, I know he was a devout Jehovah's Witness until the age of around 27/29. Finally, he was a gentleman, old-fashioned, still believed in morals & values (yeah, so do I!), and wasn't attracted to such women as Madonna. He wanted marriage, children, the right way. Unfortunately, his dream didn't work out that way. :(

Both Michael & Lisa brought a lot of baggage into the marriage (I've already mentioned Lisa's, and most fans know of Michael's). Obviously they made a connection, there was an attraction, but that wasn't enough. They also were both stubborn, hard-headed, each wanted their own way. No compromise. And it didn't help with all the outside forces (i.e. handlers, mother-in-law, media, ex-husband, Debbie Rowe, etc.). Way too much drama, both high profile celebrities. Destined to fail unfortunately. Seriously, look at Hollywood, how many marriages last wherein both parties are celebrities? The only one that comes to mind is Paul Newman & Joanne Woodward, that's it.

Michael's situation with Lisa reminds me of Brad Pitt & Jennifer Aniston. However, Brad eventually found his so-called soulmate in Angelina Jolie. She gave him the baby(s) he always wanted, and they travel together with their brood to do charity work & also to take turns making movies. Family always there, never apart. This is the type of situation Michael wanted for himself, a mate that was willing to follow him around the world if need be, to share his cause(s), to have his babies, to grow old together. Btw, did anybody else notice in the movie "This Is It" (yes, I saw it this past weekend) that the premiere dancer Michael chose for The Way You Make Me Feel scene looked exactly like Angelina Jolie (i.e. a black Angelina Jolie)? I did. ;)

I'm sorry it didn't work out for both of them. Michael should've followed Lisa's example, and basically chose a nobody to marry, that way she could follow Michael all over the world, he would be the man of the house, she would provide him with babies & be his mate, be involved with his causes, etc. Maybe even married a fan. However, he wanted someone that already had big money of her own, could match him in that regard so he didn't have to worry about her secretly marrying him for his money; he wanted to marry for love. Or at least have a relationship like Brad & Angie, both equals. I totally agree. Look at what happened to Elvis! He married a groupie basically, one that left him when things got rough. So there's no guarantee that marrying a nobody (or a fan) will work out either. Kind of a catch-22 situation, damned if you do, damned if you don't. A lot of it has to do with luck! :)

Btw neither Elvis or Michael were saints, it takes two to start a fire, so each shares an equal blame in their respective relationship(s)/marriage.

Regards Linda Thompson, I've always admired this highly educated kind Southern woman. She stayed with Elvis for four long years. But it didn't work out, and they went their separate ways. And in came the 20 yr. old Priscilla lookalike at the very end of his life (i.e. Ginger Alden). Elvis never got over losing Priscilla. And I honestly think neither did Michael get over Lisa, his first love.

This reminds me of that famous saying about "a moth to a flame", so eloquently used in the movie The Thorn Birds.

From the online dictionary:



Like a moth to a flame
Meaning

Irresistibly and dangerously attracted to something or someone.

Origin

The phrase is a simple allusion to the well-known attraction that moths have to bright lights. The word moth was used the the 17th century to mean someone who was apt to be tempted by something that would lead to their downfall. This is referred to by Shakespeare in The Merchant of Venice, 1600:

"Thus hath the candle singd the moath."
 
oldmoon20 said:
:clapping: Thank you!

I know it's not right to call her knows or try to disect everything of his life but I just wanted to know what she did to make him love her so much.
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I know this may sound strange to some of you but, maybe, she was just being herself?

none of us know why we love someone. love isn't explainable. it just... happens.
 
indranee said:
I know this may sound strange to some of you but, maybe, she was just being herself?

none of us know why we love someone. love isn't explainable. it just... happens.
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I know, that's true.
I just find it hard to believe, well no I just find it hard to know that he loved her and she treated him badly in the end. I really don't know anymore. I've been trying to discuss it and I'm just getting more and more confused on the subject.
 
oldmoon, I understand where you're coming from. I also find it hard to take -- the fact that she bashed him for so long and so hard. believe me, I like the idea of them being in love, but I find her behavior from 2003 onward unforgivable. if I had an ex who did that, I would never, ever talk to them again, much less continue loving them. Mike was a saint, I really believe that. he was able to forgive people no one could. not saying that Lisa was horrible, but she did some things that must have hurt him.

all I am saying, I guess, is that we don't know what happened between them. they shared a life once. they went to bed, woke up, had breakfast, took walks, puttered around the house (whether hers or Neverland is a moot point), took care of her kids together, traveled together, faced tough times together, cried together, laughed together... WERE together. we weren't there. we just don't know what they saw in each other and the happiness -- however ephemeral -- they found together. whatever it was, it was deep enough for both of them to have been affected by it for the rest of their lives.

is that what is bothering you? if it is, that's perfectly alright. I like your honesty when you say you feel jealousy. I think many of his female fans feel it, more so because we know he didn't have a happy ending and we want to be the one to have given it to him. we feel jealous and unhappy and angry at Lisa because to us it seems she had the opportunity to do it and kicked it aside.

all that's fine. but none of us know exactly what was between them. all we can do is trust in HIS judgment. if he loved her, there must have been something in her that was good and strong and pure for him to respond to? I believe that despite everything -- she is an honest and good person. she *is* his opposite, his mirror image. as he said, perhaps that was the reason for the attraction, and yet the reason for their breakup. I agree with him in that ultimately we need to have someone who is like us for the relationship to work in the long run.

Nadine, it was great to read your posts. thank you! I loved your insight on Lisa and Priscilla. I found it fascinating that she and her mom are almost polar opposites but she has been so influenced by her.
 
indranee said:
oldmoon, I understand where you're coming from. I also find it hard to take -- the fact that she bashed him for so long and so hard. believe me, I like the idea of them being in love, but I find her behavior from 2003 onward unforgivable. if I had an ex who did that, I would never, ever talk to them again, much less continue loving them. Mike was a saint, I really believe that. he was able to forgive people no one could. not saying that Lisa was horrible, but she did some things that must have hurt him.

all I am saying, I guess, is that we don't know what happened between them. they shared a life once. they went to bed, woke up, had breakfast, took walks, puttered around the house (whether hers or Neverland is a moot point), took care of her kids together, traveled together, faced tough times together, cried together, laughed together... WERE together. we weren't there. we just don't know what they saw in each other and the happiness -- however ephemeral -- they found together. whatever it was, it was deep enough for both of them to have been affected by it for the rest of their lives.

is that what is bothering you? if it is, that's perfectly alright. I like your honesty when you say you feel jealousy. I think many of his female fans feel it, more so because we know he didn't have a happy ending and we want to be the one to have given it to him. we feel jealous and unhappy and angry at Lisa because to us it seems she had the opportunity to do it and kicked it aside.

all that's fine. but none of us know exactly what was between them. all we can do is trust in HIS judgment. if he loved her, there must have been something in her that was good and strong and pure for him to respond to? I believe that despite everything -- she is an honest and good person. she *is* his opposite, his mirror image. as he said, perhaps that was the reason for the attraction, and yet the reason for their breakup. I agree with him in that ultimately we need to have someone who is like us for the relationship to work in the long run.

Nadine, it was great to read your posts. thank you! I loved your insight on Lisa and Priscilla. I found it fascinating that she and her mom are almost polar opposites but she has been so influenced by her.
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I don't know if its jealousy so much. At first I did, I thought seeing another women being kissed by him made me jealous but than when I see pictures of how well he and Tatiana got along I don't feel jealous. I feel like they cared about each other and would have been a wonderful couple if Frank didn't fire her for kissing Michael on tour.

I'm not saying either that they would have lived happily ever after if they did get together I'm just saying they looked really cute together. I see pictures of him and LMP and the ones of them kissing or being really close just makes me sick to my stomach. I hate it but I can't help it, it just happens. I know we weren't there but I just can't get it through my head why on earth she would do those things to him.

I understand Michael wasn't a saint, he was a human being. He was an extraordinary human though. He didn't like to even curse in public let alone bash someone in public. She knew what he was going through and she still kept at it. I just want to scream honestly, I do. I know it takes two to destroy a marriage, it takes two to fight but he didn't lash out at her at all ,ever, and she kept bashing him, over and over again.

I honestly wish I could be happy when I see them together, being happy, I honestly wish I could but I can't. As hard I try I can't :boohoo:
 
Nadine, Michael's first (and only true) love was Diana Ross. Everybody knew this. He couldn't get enough of saying it when he was alive. He never got over her and was still very much in love with her. I've always said, if she called him on June 24th and said let's do it, he would have been a married man on June 25th. He wanted her--the second woman he loved and trusted most in the world--to raise his children if the first woman was not able to. Not his sisters--and Rebbie is an amazing mother--but Diana Ross. That speaks volumes.

I believe what has been revealed through books and interviews over the years as well. But I also understand he had relationships that were not for public feasting. He had morals and values (as do I) but that certainly didn't mean he had no sexual intimacy outside marriage. Like I said, he didn't spread it around like an animal, but he got his.

Michael Jackson got over Lisa Marie. This is not to say he did not love and care about her. But he let her go. Even when she tried to get him back, he had his fun with her but at the end of the day, he went back to Debbie Rowe. When he was wanting for a third child, both his ex-wives were still single, still in love with him, and on good terms with him. He chose not to be bothered with either of them. He let them go. Trouble was, they couldn't let him go and apparently still can't.

And as an Elvis fan myself, I think he got over Priscilla. He was over her before they even divorced which is one of the reasons why they had to do so. Not to say he didn't love her or care about her, he just wasn't as wrapped up in her and she was in him.
 
IrishFaery said:
Michael Jackson got over Lisa Marie. This is not to say he did not love and care about her. But he let her go. Even when she tried to get him back, he had his fun with her but at the end of the day, he went back to Debbie Rowe. When he was wanting for a third child, both his ex-wives were still single, still in love with him, and on good terms with him. He chose not to be bothered with either of them. He let them go. Trouble was, they couldn't let him go and apparently still can't.
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So he did cheat on Debbie Rowe? When I saw pictures of him and LMP together while he was married to DR I was kinda surprised. I knew he was still in love or attracted to LMP and not so much with DR but I never would have guessed that he would actually cheat on his wife.
 
oldmoon20 said:
So he did cheat on Debbie Rowe? When I saw pictures of him and LMP together while he was married to DR I was kinda surprised. I knew he was still in love or attracted to LMP and not so much with DR but I never would have guessed that he would actually cheat on his wife.
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:) Well fun can mean anything...

She followed him everywhere during the tour, they went parasailing, out to dinner, just really enjoyed one another's company. Debbie was absolutely fine with it. She understood they still had great feelings for one another. But he still wouldn't take her back.

I like to think Michael had some pretty strong Poly tendencies. The trouble was, none of the women he got involved with wanted to share him.
 
IrishFaery said:
:) Well fun can mean anything...

She followed him everywhere during the tour, they went parasailing, out to dinner, just really enjoyed one another's company. Debbie was absolutely fine with it. She understood they still had great feelings for one another. But he still wouldn't take her back.

I like to think Michael had some pretty strong Poly tendencies. The trouble was, none of the women he got involved with wanted to share him.
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I understand having fun. The just being with a friend or hanging out. They kissed though. Not oh we're friends kissing but like they were in love kissing. I know Debbie understood but it just I dunno. I never thought he would ever do that. I always thought that when he was married to a women, if he was totally attracted to her or not he would be with her and not going around flirting with another woman. I know he loved LMP still and he wasn't in love with DR but still he was married to her.
I dunno. It just kinda hurts I dunno if you could say it like that, that he would actually do that. I know DR wasn't as good looking as LMP, we all know that but she was giving him children. Something LMP would not do and he went out with her, was kissing her, while DR was giving him children.
I heard Debbie really liked Michael too. I heard she was a little obsessed but she still cared about him. Honestly if I had been married to Michael, was giving him children and knew that he was with his ex wife, LMP kissing her, and being flirty with her when she was the one that hurt him because she didn't give him children. Well I would've been heart broken.
Please don't think I'm hating on Michael I'm not it's just something that always bugged me.
 
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All of you guys here at his official forum are wonderful, I really mean that! :)

Thanks for allowing me to post without attacking me, this honestly does not happen at Lisa's official forum, unfortunately, which is why I hardly ever post there. No wonder there is hardly any traffick there, 18 at the most, usually around 8 or 9. I've noticed this since it's inception way back in 2002. Truly unfortunate, as one's official forum is reflection of oneself, and how its members conduct themselves is a direct reflection on the subject matter (e.g. Lisa & Michael).

IrishFaery, I'm going to have to agree to disagree, but I respect your POV.

indranee, thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed my insights into the fascinating & complicated mother/daughter relationship of Priscilla & Lisa Marie. Like I said before, a child's own relationships are a direct result of how they were raised, what they saw as children. This is why it is always necessary to set a good example/role model for one's children.

And this is why I have so much sympathy for Lisa, underneath the veneer, she's a good person with a huge heart (just like Michael). She puts on a tough act, but that's all it is an act, covering up for a tender heart & a kind soul, whom fell in love with Michael & was there for him when he needed it most during the child molestation allegations back in 1994/95. Unfortunately, she wants to please her mother so much, that she eventually gave in & accepted what her mother said about Michael, that he didn't love her, he only wanted to use her, et al. Already insecure, she believed her mother instead of her husband. :( She couldn't believe that anyone just wanted to marry her for herself.

Yes, Lisa Marie is no angel, she has her faults as previously mentioned, but all I know is that she is suffering now. I recall the day of Michael's funeral there was a huge thread going on over at her official forum, and I posted that nobody can say anything that would make Lisa feel worse than she already does, and later on she had it removed/deleted. This tells me that she felt guilty & wanted people to get after her, try to make her feel worse than she already does. :(

Everything is so convoluted, I just know that they did love each other. Michael was loved, and Lisa's the one that provided it, however brief. Not Tatum O'Neal, not Brooke Shields, nor anyone else. She loved him as a man deserves to be loved. Unfortunately, it didn't last, love is fleeting...
 
oldmoon20 said:
I understand having fun. The just being with a friend or hanging out. They kissed though. Not oh we're friends kissing but like they were in love kissing. I know Debbie understood but it just I dunno. I never thought he would ever do that. I always thought that when he was married to a women, if he was totally attracted to her or not he would be with her and not going around flirting with another woman. I know he loved LMP still and he wasn't in love with DR but still he was married to her.
I dunno. It just kinda hurts I dunno if you could say it like that, that he would actually do that. I know DR wasn't as good looking as LMP, we all know that but she was giving him children. Something LMP would not do and he went out with her, was kissing her, while DR was giving him children.
I heard Debbie really liked Michael too. I heard she was a little obsessed but she still cared about him. Honestly if I had been married to Michael, was giving him children and knew that he was with his ex wife, LMP kissing her, and being flirty with her when she was the one that hurt him because she didn't give him children. Well I would've been heart broken.
Please don't think I'm hating on Michael I'm not it's just something that always bugged me.
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I understand how you feel about that. He also cheated on Lisa Marie with Debbie. They were trying to get pregnant at the time. (She miscarried once before concieving Mike Jr.) He and Lisa were separated at the time, but still married.

His infidelities didn't surprise me. (Like I said, I think the guy had some polyamorous tendencies. :cheeky:) It didn't surprise me because being a father clearly meant a lot more to him than being a husband (unless it was Diana Ross's husband) He wasn't in a hurry to get married again after Debbie. He didn't want Lisa back. (and let's not pretend here, he could have had her back if he really wanted her) The reasons for this are obvious; he had his kids, his Momma, his Janet, his fans, and his art. The man was content! It's all these bloody romantics that wanted him to be a love novel hero. :D

And that isn't a bad thing at all! It's very, very sweet.
 
Nadine66 said:
All of you guys here at his official forum are wonderful, I really mean that! :)

Thanks for allowing me to post without attacking me, this honestly does not happen at Lisa's official forum, unfortunately, which is why I hardly ever post there. No wonder there is hardly any traffick there, 18 at the most, usually around 8 or 9. I've noticed this since it's inception way back in 2002. Truly unfortunate, as one's official forum is reflection of oneself, and how its members conduct themselves is a direct reflection on the subject matter (e.g. Lisa & Michael).

IrishFaery, I'm going to have to agree to disagree, but I respect your POV.

indranee, thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed my insights into the fascinating & complicated mother/daughter relationship of Priscilla & Lisa Marie. Like I said before, a child's own relationships are a direct result of how they were raised, what they saw as children. This is why it is always necessary to set a good example/role model for one's children.

And this is why I have so much sympathy for Lisa, underneath the veneer, she's a good person with a huge heart (just like Michael). She puts on a tough act, but that's all it is an act, covering up for a tender heart & a kind soul, whom fell in love with Michael & was there for him when he needed it most during the child molestation allegations back in 1994/95. Unfortunately, she wants to please her mother so much, that she eventually gave in & accepted what her mother said about Michael, that he didn't love her, he only wanted to use her, et al. Already insecure, she believed her mother instead of her husband. :( She couldn't believe that anyone just wanted to marry her for herself.

Yes, Lisa Marie is no angel, she has her faults as previously mentioned, but all I know is that she is suffering now. I recall the day of Michael's funeral there was a huge thread going on over at her official forum, and I posted that nobody can say anything that would make Lisa feel worse than she already does, and later on she had it removed/deleted. This tells me that she felt guilty & wanted people to get after her, try to make her feel worse than she already does. :(

Everything is so convoluted, I just know that they did love each other. Michael was loved, and Lisa's the one that provided it, however brief. Not Tatum O'Neal, not Brooke Shields, nor anyone else. She loved him as a man deserves to be loved. Unfortunately, it didn't last, love is fleeting...
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Why would they attack you? I don't understand that.

There really wasn't anything that you said that I disagreed with. I think there is a force a lot bigger than Priscilla that has a hold on Lisa Marie and I hope at some point she finally gets away from it. She tried to get away in her marriage to Michael and to Nic, but they managed the yank her right back into their web which is why her current marriage is not that big a surprise to me. They treat her like a puppet. At some point they are going to have to let her go. But they have a history of being terribly unfriendly to the ones that get away, which is why the ones that get away don't always talk about them.

Michael had so much love in his life. We tend to forget the ones that really count and that were there for him when he truly needed them in favor of those who were "prettier" or had a famous last name. Lisa was one of many people who cared for Michael during 1993. Debbie was there. And there were some lesser known names that gave him the love and support he needed. The difference between Lisa and the others was that the others never hurt him with words. They were there in 2005 when the stakes were much higher. And she wasn't. (which I think has a lot to do with those puppeteers.)

I would never diminish the love they shared at the time. He was always gracious towards her even when she wasn't towards him--but that was just Michael's way. He continued to describe her as very sweet even when she was being bitter. I'm sure he forgave her because that was also his way. But when he walked away--he literally walked away. She was the one that couldn't. She had the breakdown. She lost herself. She publically called her marriage to him a mistake when she KNEW that was not how she really felt.

Michael did none of this. He let it go. At one point, she so got on his nerves, he kicked her out of his hospital room. He let it go.

Michael always made it clear who had his heart: Diana. His mother. His sister Janet. His children. His fans. His music.

The rest of them...it was like, thanks for the memories.
 
bottomline: Mike was stubborn as heck. no one could make him do what he didn't want to do. I think that was Lisa's main problem. she'd always had her own way. irresistible force meets immovable object. clash! boom! pow! flash!

in a nutshell, that's their story. I just wish it'd had a happy ending. many do.

nadine, I also find it really interesting that you think Michael was prescient. just before I read your posts on this thread, I said this very thing on another thread here (the one about curls for my girls Tshirt he wore, I think). is that an opinion you've formed over the years? I am a bit older than you and as I've followed Mike's meanderings over the years, that's the opinion I've come to, as well. he was decidedly fey. it showed in a lot of things he did and said.

I also find it really, REALLY interesting that Lisa had your post deleted/removed. fascinating!
 
Re: One of those Vent Threads

oldmoon20 said:
What really got me was hearing Michael actually say that she promised him children before they were even married and that she broke his heart because she didn't keep her promise. She was basically thinking about how the custody battle would be. I mean wth?! It seems like she was never planning on staying with him because honestly when you honestly love someone and want to spend the rest of your life with them when the subject of children comes up you don't automatically think of how the custody battle would be.

I heard that later she called him and said she would have his children but he told her no. If that's true...:clapping: Yay! for Michael! His children are wonderful and they are such amazing children and especially compared to other "celebrity" children. They were brought up very well. Lisa lost out on having Michael father her children, and that's her fault not his.
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:mello:I heard about it before too, but I am not sure if there is a reliable resource for it? I want to share with other fans in my country, lol...I do hate Lisa very very very much too! She is too dirty and talked a lot of bad things on our king, after MJ`s death, she jumped out and said sorry, I think she need to advertise for her new album!
 
IrishFaery said:
I understand how you feel about that. He also cheated on Lisa Marie with Debbie. They were trying to get pregnant at the time. (She miscarried once before concieving Mike Jr.) He and Lisa were separated at the time, but still married.

His infidelities didn't surprise me. (Like I said, I think the guy had some polyamorous tendencies. :cheeky:) It didn't surprise me because being a father clearly meant a lot more to him than being a husband (unless it was Diana Ross's husband) He wasn't in a hurry to get married again after Debbie. He didn't want Lisa back. (and let's not pretend here, he could have had her back if he really wanted her) The reasons for this are obvious; he had his kids, his Momma, his Janet, his fans, and his art. The man was content! It's all these bloody romantics that wanted him to be a love novel hero. :D

And that isn't a bad thing at all! It's very, very sweet.
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True.
Well because how sweet and sensitive he was I never thought he could do such a thing. I know he really cared more about being a daddy than a husband but still. This is just one thing I just can't figure out about MJ. I love him dearly but I never understood why he would go back and cheat on his wife with the woman who just broke his heart in a million pieces and wouldn't give him children yet the woman that is giving him children he's cheating on her. I just never really got that.
I understand he probably never wanted to settle down with DR, he didn't love her like that. I know he mainly married her so it wouldn't be hard to get full custody of the children as they were born. I think it was you who said women just never wanted to share him, well honestly I wouldn't want to either :lol: I mean if he was just friends with other women it would be fine, but he was going out and flirting with them, kissing them, than uh uh! When I have a guy he needs to only do that kind of stuff with me, not his ex's or women he thinks are cute.
I mean if it was a fan that kissed him and he was just being nice about it like he always was than fine, but if it's like he was with LMP than no :lol:

I don't understand why people fight with each other either. We all come here to discuss certain topics, some are more sensitive than others but when you want to get your point across its never going to work if you bash someone or yell at them. If you do that they will totally close their mind to your opinion. If you discuss it with them calmly and explain why you think they're wrong and have certain pieces of evidence or something that shows why they are wrong than do you. Just be nice to everyone, like Michael was.
 
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