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Ernestine said:
I am not sure if you ever been in love, but it is not surprising Lisa went back because she LOVED him. When you love someone it is hard to let go and move on. She probably tried her hardest to forget everything, but like she said she had kids that served a higher priority than any of the drama with MJ.

Just because Michael wanted to children and Lisa changed her mind, it doesn't make her a bad person. People changes their minds. Lisa has kids with some of her other men, so I am sure she wasn't against having kids except with Michael. I am sure she had good reason too. Everything that came out about the drug use, can you blame her? Even though some of her interviews are annoying, I never heard her waver about MJ, the good and the bad. She stuck to her story from Oprah to Diane Sawyer to the Myspace blog.
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If, according to your view, for the sake of her kids Lisa HAD to get the heck outta that Jackson hell of a marriage. Then WHY was she writing letters to Michael expressing her desire to have his children--9 of them if that's what he wanted. And before you try to dispute that as a rumor, it's a fact that has been addressed before not only by Michael himself. It's also a fact, she was hanging around Katherine, Janet and Reebie as well as Michael...traveling around the world with him with her precious young children in tow. Doesn't sound like someone wanted to get away from the immature, childish, drugged out Michael.

As far as her saying Michael left her for six weeks, its funny she never says WHY. It's not like she doesn't know why; she just doesn't say it. Hmm, is it because something went down that upset Michael to go off for that long? No offense, but I notice you have a tendency to have a critical-eyed view of Michael regardless, so I'm not surprised you would take her side as the gospel. I bet if Lisa Marie said Michael pistol-whipped her during their marriage, that would be taken as the truth also, wouldn't it?

I do not believe Michael would up and leave his wife for a month just on a whim. Something happened and of course Lisa's not going to say what it is. Just like she conventiently left out the fact she (with her children in tow) was chasing Michael around the globe and was still seeing him for several years AFTER they divorced, even during her marriage to Nicholas Cage. That would mess up the manipulated victim and savior' role she has been able to fool some people into believing about her.

And if you think that it's no big deal for a woman entering into a marriage with a man who never had children and who never made it a secret he wanted to have a family, and the wife reject any attempts by him to make him a father, I'm sorry; but to do that is very cold, and selfish. Not to mention a form of manipulation. It can also be a HUGE deal-breaker. This is not like Lisa Marie promised Michael a Rolls Royce before they married but then reneged on it after the marriage. This is children we're talking about. Children usually made within the marriage out of love between a husband and his wife. It's another form of love for one's mate, wanting to have your husband's (or wife's) child. Why was it so unreasonable for Michael to want to have children with his own wife? How do you think Michael was supposed to react when his wife didn't want to have his child? He was just supposed to get over it, suck it up, and continue to be Lisa's devoted husband?

Don't even get me started on that blog she wrote. Despite her grief, she still could not resist playing the manipulated victim savior role. Making ambiguous statements, comparing Michael's death to her father and claims of having to leave because of so-called destructive behavior, now she's insinuating that drugs was the reason why she left. Which is a lie. When Michael had to go the hospital in New York when he got sick (during the making of the HBO special), the doctor that treated him said Michael was CLEAN...NO DRUGS AT ALL. This was during the time when Lisa Marie went ahead and filed for divorce--when Michael was in the hospital after almost dying.

The bottom line is Lisa Marie during these Michael bashing years knew what she was doing. The media (who loved anything negative about Michael) was not going to dispute or challenge what she said even though that same media had enough footage to contradict her claims that she left Michael and never looked back. I guess when blinded by Michael hatred media and people who listen to them will believe ANYTHING. Well she doesn't fool me at all. I got her number.

Even though I hated Shumley Boteach for releasing those tapes of Michael. One thing that I appreciated was after years of hearing Lisa Marie's side, at least Michael's side was FINALLY being heard. I'm sure that little bit he mentioned was just the tip of the iceberg.
 
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enlightenu said:
If, according to your view, for the sake of her kids Lisa HAD to get the heck outta that Jackson hell of a marriage. Then WHY was she writing letters to Michael expressing her desire to have his children--9 of them if that's what he wanted. And before you try to dispute that as a rumor, it's a fact that has been addressed before not only by Michael himself. It's also a fact, she was hanging around Katherine, Janet and Reebie as well as Michael...traveling around the world with him with her precious young children in tow. Doesn't sound like someone wanted to get away from the immature, childish, drugged out Michael.

As far as her saying Michael left her for six weeks, its funny she never says WHY. It's not like she doesn't know why; she just doesn't say it. Hmm, is it because something went down that upset Michael to go off for that long? No offense, but I notice you have a tendency to have a critical-eyed view of Michael regardless, so I'm not surprised you would take her side as the gospel. I bet if Lisa Marie said Michael pistol-whipped her during their marriage, that would be taken as the truth also, wouldn't it?

I do not believe Michael would up and leave his wife for a month just on a whim. Something happened and of course Lisa's not going to say what it is. Just like she conventiently left out the fact she (with her children in tow) was chasing Michael around the globe and was still seeing him for several years AFTER they divorced, even during her marriage to Nicholas Cage. That would mess up the manipulated victim and savior' role she has been able to fool some people into believing about her.

And if you think that it's no big deal for a woman entering into a marriage with a man who never had children and who never made it a secret he wanted to have a family, and the wife reject any attempts by him to make him a father, I'm sorry; but to do that is very cold, and selfish. Not to mention a form of manipulation. It can also be a HUGE deal-breaker. This is not like Lisa Marie promised Michael a Rolls Royce before they married but then reneged on it after the marriage. This is children we're talking about. Children usually made within the marriage out of love between a husband and his wife. It's another form of love for one's mate, wanting to have your husband's (or wife's) child. Why was it so unreasonable for Michael to want to have children with his own wife? How do you think Michael was supposed to react when his wife didn't want to have his child? He was just supposed to get over it, suck it up, and continue to be Lisa's devoted husband?

Don't even get me started on that blog she wrote. Despite her grief, she still could not resist playing the manipulated victim savior role. Making ambiguous statements, comparing Michael's death to her father and claims of having to leave because of so-called destructive behavior, now she's insinuating that drugs was the reason why she left. Which is a lie. When Michael had to go the hospital in New York when he got sick (during the making of the HBO special), the doctor that treated him said Michael was CLEAN...NO DRUGS AT ALL. This was during the time when Lisa Marie went ahead and filed for divorce--when Michael was in the hospital after almost dying.

The bottom line is Lisa Marie during these Michael bashing years knew what she was doing. The media (who loved anything negative about Michael) was not going to dispute or challenge what she said even though that same media had enough footage to contradict her claims that she left Michael and never looked back. I guess when blinded by Michael hatred media and people who listen to them will believe ANYTHING. Well she doesn't fool me at all. I got her number.

Even though I hated Shumley Boteach for releasing those tapes of Michael. One thing that I appreciated was after years of hearing Lisa Marie's side, at least Michael's side was FINALLY being heard. I'm sure that little bit he mentioned was just the tip of the iceberg.
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:clapping: Your totally right!
 
enlightenu said:
If, according to your view, for the sake of her kids Lisa HAD to get the heck outta that Jackson hell of a marriage. Then WHY was she writing letters to Michael expressing her desire to have his children--9 of them if that's what he wanted. And before you try to dispute that as a rumor, it's a fact that has been addressed before not only by Michael himself. It's also a fact, she was hanging around Katherine, Janet and Reebie as well as Michael...traveling around the world with him with her precious young children in tow. Doesn't sound like someone wanted to get away from the immature, childish, drugged out Michael.

As far as her saying Michael left her for six weeks, its funny she never says WHY. It's not like she doesn't know why; she just doesn't say it. Hmm, is it because something went down that upset Michael to go off for that long? No offense, but I notice you have a tendency to have a critical-eyed view of Michael regardless, so I'm not surprised you would take her side as the gospel. I bet if Lisa Marie said Michael pistol-whipped her during their marriage, that would be taken as the truth also, wouldn't it?

I do not believe Michael would up and leave his wife for a month just on a whim. Something happened and of course Lisa's not going to say what it is. Just like she conventiently left out the fact she (with her children in tow) was chasing Michael around the globe and was still seeing him for several years AFTER they divorced, even during her marriage to Nicholas Cage. That would mess up the manipulated victim and savior' role she has been able to fool some people into believing about her.

And if you think that it's no big deal for a woman entering into a marriage with a man who never had children and who never made it a secret he wanted to have a family, and the wife reject any attempts by him to make him a father, I'm sorry; but to do that is very cold, and selfish. Not to mention a form of manipulation. It can also be a HUGE deal-breaker. This is not like Lisa Marie promised Michael a Rolls Royce before they married but then reneged on it after the marriage. This is children we're talking about. Children usually made within the marriage out of love between a husband and his wife. It's another form of love for one's mate, wanting to have your husband's (or wife's) child. Why was it so unreasonable for Michael to want to have children with his own wife? How do you think Michael was supposed to react when his wife didn't want to have his child? He was just supposed to get over it, suck it up, and continue to be Lisa's devoted husband?

Don't even get me started on that blog she wrote. Despite her grief, she still could not resist playing the manipulated victim savior role. Making ambiguous statements, comparing Michael's death to her father and claims of having to leave because of so-called destructive behavior, now she's insinuating that drugs was the reason why she left. Which is a lie. When Michael had to go the hospital in New York when he got sick (during the making of the HBO special), the doctor that treated him said Michael was CLEAN...NO DRUGS AT ALL. This was during the time when Lisa Marie went ahead and filed for divorce--when Michael was in the hospital after almost dying.

The bottom line is Lisa Marie during these Michael bashing years knew what she was doing. The media (who loved anything negative about Michael) was not going to dispute or challenge what she said even though that same media had enough footage to contradict her claims that she left Michael and never looked back. I guess when blinded by Michael hatred media and people who listen to them will believe ANYTHING. Well she doesn't fool me at all. I got her number.

Even though I hated Shumley Boteach for releasing those tapes of Michael. One thing that I appreciated was after years of hearing Lisa Marie's side, at least Michael's side was FINALLY being heard. I'm sure that little bit he mentioned was just the tip of the iceberg.
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Did you read anything I wrote. I said its not surprising Lisa went back because she LOVED him. She even admitted she was obsessed with Michael. It was hard to let go until she realized it wasn't good for her and her kids.

From the looks of Lisa face at the VMA's, I am pretty sure she didn't walk away from Michael either. The whole performance was so phony thinking back about it. Michael looked like he was singing to the love of his life yet he was gone for six weeks before that.

If you think Lisa had no rights to change her mind about children, then you are wrong. Things change, and I am sure when Lisa married Michael she didn't expect the mayhem that followed. It was obvious that Lisa was a little bit more mature than Michael was in the relationship despite the age difference. Lets remember, Michael proposed to Lisa not the other way around. I am sure if Lisa thought the marriage would've lasted more than 20 months than she would have popped out with a few kids. All in all, I can't blame her because she guessed right. It seemed as though that MJ was more focus on having kids than saving his marriage, IMO. Why bring kids in a broken home?

The Debbie Rowe fiasco would not have happened in the first place with Lisa, and I am sure alot of MJ fans recognize that she wouldn't have agreed to the crazy arrangement MJ and Debbie had.

In regards to Lisa and the media, in the end, she must had a good reason to not give a damn about MJ in the media. They were divorced. She never denied she loved him or their marriage was a sham. She can legally write a tell all about their marriage which she still hasn't and probably won't. I don't agree with her tactics sometimes, but I understand her. What if MJ used her to deflect talk about his sexual preference after the molestation charges? What if MJ did use her just to have kids? Hell that was the only reason why he married Debbie. It seems like people forget how MJ openly was sleeping with Lisa when he was married to Debbie. The thing is, we shouldn't judge Lisa because most likely if you had to deal with what she did, then you may be singing a different tune.
 
i agree with ernastine, well put.

also, michael went on record saying things about lisa which people conveniently forget about, the whole hanging out with his mum, saying she'd have heaps of his kids, that was personal stuff. They were both in the marriage and they both have their own sides of the story, i'm amazed they have both been so tight lipped about it all. they've both been pretty respectful considering
 
Goodbye Michael said:
i agree with ernastine, well put.

also, michael went on record saying things about lisa which people conveniently forget about, the whole hanging out with his mum, saying she'd have heaps of his kids, that was personal stuff. They were both in the marriage and they both have their own sides of the story, i'm amazed they have both been so tight lipped about it all. they've both been pretty respectful considering
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I disagree. The only person that said anything, without being disrespectful is Michael. Lisa has bashed him to the media, badmouthing him in interviews.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
i agree with ernastine, well put.

also, michael went on record saying things about lisa which people conveniently forget about, the whole hanging out with his mum, saying she'd have heaps of his kids, that was personal stuff. They were both in the marriage and they both have their own sides of the story, i'm amazed they have both been so tight lipped about it all. they've both been pretty respectful considering
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You got to be out of your mind, Michael only behaved respectfully toward that spoiled rottten middle aged woman.

enlightenu said:
If, according to your view, for the sake of her kids Lisa HAD to get the heck outta that Jackson hell of a marriage. Then WHY was she writing letters to Michael expressing her desire to have his children--9 of them if that's what he wanted. And before you try to dispute that as a rumor, it's a fact that has been addressed before not only by Michael himself. It's also a fact, she was hanging around Katherine, Janet and Reebie as well as Michael...traveling around the world with him with her precious young children in tow. Doesn't sound like someone wanted to get away from the immature, childish, drugged out Michael.

As far as her saying Michael left her for six weeks, its funny she never says WHY. It's not like she doesn't know why; she just doesn't say it. Hmm, is it because something went down that upset Michael to go off for that long? No offense, but I notice you have a tendency to have a critical-eyed view of Michael regardless, so I'm not surprised you would take her side as the gospel. I bet if Lisa Marie said Michael pistol-whipped her during their marriage, that would be taken as the truth also, wouldn't it?

I do not believe Michael would up and leave his wife for a month just on a whim. Something happened and of course Lisa's not going to say what it is. Just like she conventiently left out the fact she (with her children in tow) was chasing Michael around the globe and was still seeing him for several years AFTER they divorced, even during her marriage to Nicholas Cage. That would mess up the manipulated victim and savior' role she has been able to fool some people into believing about her.

And if you think that it's no big deal for a woman entering into a marriage with a man who never had children and who never made it a secret he wanted to have a family, and the wife reject any attempts by him to make him a father, I'm sorry; but to do that is very cold, and selfish. Not to mention a form of manipulation. It can also be a HUGE deal-breaker. This is not like Lisa Marie promised Michael a Rolls Royce before they married but then reneged on it after the marriage. This is children we're talking about. Children usually made within the marriage out of love between a husband and his wife. It's another form of love for one's mate, wanting to have your husband's (or wife's) child. Why was it so unreasonable for Michael to want to have children with his own wife? How do you think Michael was supposed to react when his wife didn't want to have his child? He was just supposed to get over it, suck it up, and continue to be Lisa's devoted husband?

Don't even get me started on that blog she wrote. Despite her grief, she still could not resist playing the manipulated victim savior role. Making ambiguous statements, comparing Michael's death to her father and claims of having to leave because of so-called destructive behavior, now she's insinuating that drugs was the reason why she left. Which is a lie. When Michael had to go the hospital in New York when he got sick (during the making of the HBO special), the doctor that treated him said Michael was CLEAN...NO DRUGS AT ALL. This was during the time when Lisa Marie went ahead and filed for divorce--when Michael was in the hospital after almost dying.

The bottom line is Lisa Marie during these Michael bashing years knew what she was doing. The media (who loved anything negative about Michael) was not going to dispute or challenge what she said even though that same media had enough footage to contradict her claims that she left Michael and never looked back. I guess when blinded by Michael hatred media and people who listen to them will believe ANYTHING. Well she doesn't fool me at all. I got her number.

Even though I hated Shumley Boteach for releasing those tapes of Michael. One thing that I appreciated was after years of hearing Lisa Marie's side, at least Michael's side was FINALLY being heard. I'm sure that little bit he mentioned was just the tip of the iceberg.
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THANK YOU!!!:clapping:
 
Goodbye Michael said:
i agree with ernastine, well put.

also, michael went on record saying things about lisa which people conveniently forget about, the whole hanging out with his mum, saying she'd have heaps of his kids, that was personal stuff. They were both in the marriage and they both have their own sides of the story, i'm amazed they have both been so tight lipped about it all. they've both been pretty respectful considering
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that was between him and a friend(or what he thought was a friend) when you write a book you talk about all kinds of things but at the end only certain things end up in a book, Michael was suppose to have control over that the same way he had over Moonwalker. remember there were certain tapes that surfaced after his death taken during the making of Moonwalker when he talks about Joe's beatings at one point he said "please don't write that"(in the book)not everything you talk about during these interviews is suppose to end up in a book
and the fact that he told Schmuley so many personal things came from his desperate desire to confide in someone about things in his life, he had no one to confide in he was always looking for a friend, you cannot compare what he did with what Lisa did, that SPOILED ROTTEN BRAT
 
Ernestine said:
If you think Lisa had no rights to change her mind about children, then you are wrong. Things change, and I am sure when Lisa married Michael she didn't expect the mayhem that followed. It was obvious that Lisa was a little bit more mature than Michael was in the relationship despite the age difference. Lets remember, Michael proposed to Lisa not the other way around. I am sure if Lisa thought the marriage would've lasted more than 20 months than she would have popped out with a few kids. All in all, I can't blame her because she guessed right. It seemed as though that MJ was more focus on having kids than saving his marriage, IMO. Why bring kids in a broken home?

The Debbie Rowe fiasco would not have happened in the first place with Lisa, and I am sure alot of MJ fans recognize that she wouldn't have agreed to the crazy arrangement MJ and Debbie had.

In regards to Lisa and the media, in the end, she must had a good reason to not give a damn about MJ in the media. They were divorced. She never denied she loved him or their marriage was a sham. She can legally write a tell all about their marriage which she still hasn't and probably won't. I don't agree with her tactics sometimes, but I understand her. What if MJ used her to deflect talk about his sexual preference after the molestation charges? What if MJ did use her just to have kids? Hell that was the only reason why he married Debbie. It seems like people forget how MJ openly was sleeping with Lisa when he was married to Debbie. The thing is, we shouldn't judge Lisa because most likely if you had to deal with what she did, then you may be singing a different tune.
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Lisa Marie is MORE mature than Michael was, huh? It was VERY mature of her to carry on chasing after a man after she left him. It was very mature of her to go from man to man like a box of kleenex. It was very mature to spinelessly allow herself to be brow-beaten by her mother, the media and others who didn't like Michael nor approved of her marriage to him. It was very mature of her to join in the lynch mob to participate in the national pastime of bashing her ex-husband. It was very mature of her to play victim, blaming EVERYTHING on her ex instead of taking ownership of her own part in the marriage falling apart. Say what you want about Michael, at least he showed the maturity and amazing restraint in not publically bashing her right back (although I wouldn't condemn him one bit if he went off on her). Even in those Boteach tapes, Michael acknowledged his faults admitting he's not an easy person to be married to. But according to Miss Lisa, EVERYTHING was Michael's fault. She was totally blameless. But you forgot one thing, between the two of them, WHO's THE ONE ON MARRIAGE #4?
 
Is it true that Lisa and Michael were still lovers in 2003?

I read some previous posts that the two were together even when Lisa was married to Nicolas Cage ...

But this is different from what Michael says the rabbi Shumley .... he says that Lisa sent letters wanting to get back the relationship but it was closed.

But they arrived in HIStory to resume? Or only Lisa was behind him trying?
 
enlightenu said:
Lisa Marie is MORE mature than Michael was, huh? It was VERY mature of her to carry on chasing after a man after she left him. It was very mature of her to go from man to man like a box of kleenex. It was very mature to spinelessly allow herself to be brow-beaten by her mother, the media and others who didn't like Michael nor approved of her marriage to him. It was very mature of her to join in the lynch mob to participate in the national pastime of bashing her ex-husband. It was very mature of her to play victim, blaming EVERYTHING on her ex instead of taking ownership of her own part in the marriage falling apart. Say what you want about Michael, at least he showed the maturity and amazing restraint in not publically bashing her right back (although I wouldn't condemn him one bit if he went off on her). Even in those Boteach tapes, Michael acknowledged his faults admitting he's not an easy person to be married to. But according to Miss Lisa, EVERYTHING was Michael's fault. She was totally blameless. But you forgot one thing, between the two of them, WHO's THE ONE ON MARRIAGE #4?
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:clapping::punk:
 
Oh please, LMP cared for MJ but she did NOT love him like a so called wife should love a husband (otherwise it would have lasted more than year and she did not even tell her family about Mike nor MJ told him family). People need to stop trying to make this out to be a so called love marriage. No it was not. LMP had her own agenda as well. Funny she had children in her 40's with her new husband than she did with Mj in her 20's and she promoted her cd by talking about MJ. Get real. For Mj, LMP was somone who came at time when he was down but when he found her out and got over mess and his head was clear, he avoided her @$$. I do not believe Mj loved her as husband should love a wife either but I believed he cared for her. People mix up the meaning of REAL love with the meaning of just caring for somone. That is why it is so easy to divorce when a few problems come up. Like I said, my comment was passed to Mj on he should have never married LMP and my response back was priceless (I will never share it because it was told to me in privatcy). That is why I go on these rants when this issue come up. Just take it they were so called married and it did not work. End of story.
 
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And people need to remember what MJ said, "I am an gentleman". he did NOT want to say nothing about LMP. That is MJ's nature. he is not going to tell yall everything.
 
terrell said:
Oh please, LMP cared for MJ but she did NOT love him like a so called wife should love a husband (otherwise it would have lasted more than year and she did not even tell her family about Mike nor MJ told him family). People need to stop trying to make this out to be a so called love marriage. No it was not. LMP had her own agenda as well. Funny she had children in her 40's with her new husband than she did with Mj in her 20's and she promoted her cd by talking about MJ. Get real. For Mj, LMP was somone who came at time when he was down but when he found her out and got over mess and his head was clear, he avoided her @$$. I do not believe Mj loved her as husband should love a wife either but I believed he cared for her. People mix up the meaning of REAL love with the meaning of just caring for somone. That is why it is so easy to divorce when a few problems come up. Like I said, my comment was passed to Mj on he should have never married LMP and my response back was priceless (I will never share it because it was told to me in privatcy). That is why I go on these rants when this issue come up. Just take it they were so called married and it did not work. End of story.
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Michael and Lisa Marie were friends BEFORE the 1993 allegations hit. That's what many people keep avoiding and still insisting they met and got together AFTER the allegations and decide to get married for image sake. Michael was going through his drama with the 1993 allegations and Lisa Marie wasn't happy with her first husband, Danny and wanted out. That's how the friendship evolved to the next level. Michael was vunerable, she gave him a shoulder to cry on; he gave her a shoulder to cry on. They should have dated MORE than a few months before he asked her to marry him. They got married the same month (or week) that Lisa got that quickie divorce from Danny. Even though I believe it was a real marriage and I believe they had feelings for each other; but I do agree with you that Michael NEVER should have married Lisa Marie at all. That marriage was doomed from the start. If Michael had dated her a little bit longer, he would have seen the true colors.
 
With the right woman, Michael would have eventually learned to adapt his life to being a husband. He did it when he became a father. Same thing for years people were running their mouths claiming Michael was unfit to be a parent and how those 'poor' children needed to be taken away from him and how he needed to take parenting classes and so on. But his daughter shut those critics up forever with those few words at her father's memorial. There was NOTHING else anyone could say regarding Michael's parenting.

I don't believe for one second Michael was incapable of being a good husband. His problem was he had a poor knack for finding the right woman for him. Lisa was not the right woman for him at all; but with the right woman, Michael could've definitely be a good husband. Sure he had to learn to adapt his life as a husband. The man got married when he was in his mid-thirties. He was used to being on his own with only himself, his career, his fans, his charity work to worry about. A year is not enough to just snap into shape as a marriage mate. Some people (men and women take years); but that's where the unconditional love and commitment comes in--which Lisa Marie didn't have. She wanted to change him and control him while allowing herself to be swayed by outsiders who wanted to destroy her marriage to Michael. And just because Lisa Marie was married before with children does not make her MORE mature in the relationship. Because in that case that would mean, Danny, Nicholas Cage and the other guys she was involved with/engaged to were immature too. Usually when a woman goes through failed relationship/marriages after another, SHE's the common denominator of the failures, not the men. Different man, same problems.
 
enlightenu said:
Lisa Marie is MORE mature than Michael was, huh? It was VERY mature of her to carry on chasing after a man after she left him. It was very mature of her to go from man to man like a box of kleenex. It was very mature to spinelessly allow herself to be brow-beaten by her mother, the media and others who didn't like Michael nor approved of her marriage to him. It was very mature of her to join in the lynch mob to participate in the national pastime of bashing her ex-husband. It was very mature of her to play victim, blaming EVERYTHING on her ex instead of taking ownership of her own part in the marriage falling apart. Say what you want about Michael, at least he showed the maturity and amazing restraint in not publically bashing her right back (although I wouldn't condemn him one bit if he went off on her). Even in those Boteach tapes, Michael acknowledged his faults admitting he's not an easy person to be married to. But according to Miss Lisa, EVERYTHING was Michael's fault. She was totally blameless. But you forgot one thing, between the two of them, WHO's THE ONE ON MARRIAGE #4?
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It doesn't matter how many times Lisa was married. Her marriage to MJ is the one being discussed. If you want to get dirty, how shady was it of MJ to date Lisa Marie while "married" to Debbie the mother of his children? Lisa didn't owe Michael anything as he probably didn't give her anything during their marriage (traveling with kids during their marriage, disappearing, publicity stunts at the VMA's..the list goes on) From what I heard from Lisa, she didn't blame MJ on everything. She expressed how she felt. If she think MJ used her or didn't share the same feelings, that is her. You were not married to him.Sometimes you have to separate the artist from the man. I don't know anyone who will stay married to someone who play with baby dolls, or vacation with kids, or plan to get another woman pregnant, or give the silence treatment to their wife. If Lisa was such a bad wife, why would Janet or Katherine still associate with her after the divorce? She couldn't be that bad. Hell they didn't even meet Debbie Rowe until recently.

What more could MJ fans ask of Lisa?I don't really care about her like that, but she supported him and backed him up about the allegations and what type of person he was. Just because they ended things on bad terms doesn't mean fans shouldn't cause people to say she is a bad person. Who cares if she changed her mind about kids.She is a mother, and she guessed RIGHT that the marriage wasn't strong enough to bring kids in. People act like she had a tubal ligation to stop MJ from having kids. Look at the Debbie mess. There is no way the arrangement with Debbie would have worked with Lisa.
 
Ernestine said:
It doesn't matter how many times Lisa was married. Her marriage to MJ is the one being discussed. If you want to get dirty, how shady was it of MJ to date Lisa Marie while "married" to Debbie the mother of his children? Lisa didn't owe Michael anything as he probably didn't give her anything during their marriage (traveling with kids during their marriage, disappearing, publicity stunts at the VMA's..the list goes on) From what I heard from Lisa, she didn't blame MJ on everything. She expressed how she felt. If she think MJ used her or didn't share the same feelings, that is her. You were not married to him.Sometimes you have to separate the artist from the man. I don't know anyone who will stay married to someone who play with baby dolls, or vacation with kids, or plan to get another woman pregnant, or give the silence treatment to their wife. If Lisa was such a bad wife, why would Janet or Katherine still associate with her after the divorce? She couldn't be that bad. Hell they didn't even meet Debbie Rowe until recently.

What more could MJ fans ask of Lisa?I don't really care about her like that, but she supported him and backed him up about the allegations and what type of person he was. Just because they ended things on bad terms doesn't mean fans shouldn't cause people to say she is a bad person. Who cares if she changed her mind about kids.She is a mother, and she guessed RIGHT that the marriage wasn't strong enough to bring kids in. People act like she had a tubal ligation to stop MJ from having kids. Look at the Debbie mess. There is no way the arrangement with Debbie would have worked with Lisa.
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Lisa has married four men and has had 3 divorces. That means something. She has some unresolved issues, and seeks men to lean on. The girl shows no strength to stand on her own two feet at all. She befriended MJ not as a person trying to "save" him, but it was all about promoting her musical career. As for MJ seeing Lisa after the divorce when he married DR, Lisa was the one who chased him and she knew about DR and her offer to have children for him when they were married. It was many issues. Communication wasn't happening, frustration was running very high and Michael was doing dissappearing acts to remove himself from the argumentive environment. He was heartbroken, and let down b/c of Lisa's lies, and uncomfortable behaviour about his life, and who he was as a person. Instead of working on the problems, Lisa wanted out. She wanted nothing to do with Michael, and she removed herself from the situation after less than two years. My question is this...if he was such a bad hubby with many problems, why was she hanging around his family trying to keep up with him and hunt him down around the world instead of having some class, and move on with her life, and allow him to move on with his? Lisa is very confused. She has no idea about what, or who she wants. She's easily influenced by others, needy, brash, vulgar, and self-seeking. Michael didn't need her drama. She's not the type of female he needed in his life. She brought nothing to his life but more heartache, instead of happiness that he desired to share with a wife.
 
foreverinmyheart, you are posting like you know these things as fact, but Michael never talked remember, so i'm not sure where you got your information.

Michael had 2 failed marriages, Lisa has only had 1 more.

I don't really give a hoot about LMP but why do people think they know more about a relationship than they do. There were only 2 people in that marriage, how do we know she didn't try, how do whe know why he was being distant. We don't. Just because two people can't get it to work doesn't mean one is evil and the other a saint, it just means they couldn't work it out. He didn't seem to heart broken, as she said, he moved on pretty quickly. She didn't promote her musical career while she was with him, she didn't even have a musical career until many years later. She told things from her perspective, is that so unusual, isn't that they way we all tell a story? At least she was there, she lived it, it's her story to tell if she wants.

Really it sounds like some of you think she should have just shut up and put up.....but then don't we all hate the yes men that surrounded him, so why want her to be another yes man? Just because she married michael jackson doesn't mean she can't want things or have a mind of her own.....none of us know the real truth. Put one person on a pedestal and think that he was a victim all you like, hate the other and blame her solely for everything that went wrong....but that is never the case, there are always 2 sides and each person thinks they are right and who are we to decide when we don't know sh*t about either of them personally.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
foreverinmyheart, you are posting like you know these things as fact, but Michael never talked remember, so i'm not sure where you got your information.

Michael had 2 failed marriages, Lisa has only had 1 more.

I don't really give a hoot about LMP but why do people think they know more about a relationship than they do. There were only 2 people in that marriage, how do we know she didn't try, how do whe know why he was being distant. We don't. Just because two people can't get it to work doesn't mean one is evil and the other a saint, it just means they couldn't work it out. He didn't seem to heart broken, as she said, he moved on pretty quickly. She didn't promote her musical career while she was with him, she didn't even have a musical career until many years later. She told things from her perspective, is that so unusual, isn't that they way we all tell a story? At least she was there, she lived it, it's her story to tell if she wants.

Really it sounds like some of you think she should have just shut up and put up.....but then don't we all hate the yes men that surrounded him, so why want her to be another yes man? Just because she married michael jackson doesn't mean she can't want things or have a mind of her own.....none of us know the real truth. Put one person on a pedestal and think that he was a victim all you like, hate the other and blame her solely for everything that went wrong....but that is never the case, there are always 2 sides and each person thinks they are right and who are we to decide when we don't know sh*t about either of them personally.
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I'm simply giving my opinion like others. We all including you really don't know what happened in the marriage. We can only speculate by what's been said by Michael, Lisa, and what's written by associates of them. It's peculiar, LMP is given the benefit of the doubt by her very bad behaviour, but, so called fans make statements that MJ is made out to be a God without faults. That's not the case. And, as for Lisa, in my opinion which I will continue to stand on, is a manipulator, who knew what she wanted and she used Michael to get it. She never loved Michael, or respected him as an individual, she knew his name would pave the way for musical career. And, it did. Her friendship with Michael gave her the network she desired and needed to become the musician she wanted to be. The girl has no strength, no survivor skills. She has no idea what REAL life is about. From birth the girl was sheltered, coddled and spoiled born into musical royalty. She has always had others catering to her every whim, and she doesn't have a clue how to stand on her own two feet without someone else's influence, or someone helping her along the way in life. And, she's nobody's yes man. Not at all. She's totally selfish, disrespectful and disregards people. She tosses them aside like a toy she has no use for. That's how she treated Michael. And, just b/c she maried him it doesn't mean I am obligated to like her. Absolutely not. She lost my respect when she bashed him to the world and became another betrayer that tried to make him look like a laughingstock to the world.
 
lmp never was able to Understand Michael fully, to love & care unconditionally and to be by his side, no matter what; she just brought the heartache to his life.
Sad, Michael wasted his years on her.
Hopefully, in last call he said to her to f_ck off forever.
 
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forevernmyheart said:
I'm simply giving my opinion like others. We all including you really don't know what happened in the marriage. We can only speculate by what's been said by Michael, Lisa, and what's written by associates of them. It's peculiar, LMP is given the benefit of the doubt by her very bad behaviour, but, so called fans make statements that MJ is made out to be a God without faults. That's not the case. And, as for Lisa, in my opinion which I will continue to stand on, is a manipulator, who knew what she wanted and she used Michael to get it. She never loved Michael, or respected him as an individual, she knew his name would pave the way for musical career. And, it did. Her friendship with Michael gave her the network she desired and needed to become the musician she wanted to be. The girl has no strength, no survivor skills. She has no idea what REAL life is about. From birth the girl was sheltered, coddled and spoiled born into musical royalty. She has always had others catering to her every whim, and she doesn't have a clue how to stand on her own two feet without someone else's influence, or someone helping her along the way in life. And, she's nobody's yes man. Not at all. She's totally selfish, disrespectful and disregards people. She tosses them aside like a toy she has no use for. That's how she treated Michael. And, just b/c she maried him it doesn't mean I am obligated to like her. Absolutely not. She lost my respect when she bashed him to the world and became another betrayer that tried to make him look like a laughingstock to the world.
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the reason I agree with you because you are speaking the truth When she decided to go on oprah and disrespected MJ in front of millions of people who was watching it i remember when my cousins called me like omg LMP is going in on Michael a lot of people stood by her side because they never knew Michael story and real talk her ass never mention when DR was about to run up on her ass for ragging Michael like that and for trying to get with him while she was married to michael people need to get their facts straight cause i know people in the industry who kept it real when in came to DR and MJ. Second of all LMP karma came back to bite her in the ass while MJ was with brooke he started dating LMP she knew brooke was with him first then he marriages LMP she decided to walk away from her marriage to MJ cause her ex hunband was going to blast off on her then he just took his brokenheart and decided to let DR have his kids a woman who been by his side for 25 plus years watch him get ragged,dragged and beatdown by the media and people who turn their backs and it wasn't all for money she had them kids for the love, respect and kindless he gave to her god put people in people's life for a reason. So at the end of the day the only reason why LMP matters now because the of the media and his family. AS for DR the reason she wasn't close to MJ family is because he wanted it that way lets not forget the media and a lot of people turn their backs on him around that time. But DR always was close to Mrs.Jackson she was the reason MJ and DR got married when they didn't want to.At the end of the day prince, paris and mike jr are here to carry on their father's legacy.
 
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hmmm well i don't know what happened and that's the only opinion i have. Where i am coming from is this.....we love Michael Jackson the performer, we don't know much otherwise...i may be in relationship that is not working, i could be heart broken, try as hard as i can, do the best i can given my up bringing, whether it be rich, poor, whatever.....and the reality is none of his friends will understand my point of view because they are his friends....and that's how i feel it is here.


The woman is still human, her upbringing is not her fault or her choice, she is trying to make it through life just like the rest of us.

i've been in situations where people turned on me because they didn't agree with what happened in my relationship....but they didn't know what i dealt with in my own mind and heart.

I think judging someone so harshly based on what you have observed from afar is unfair. I really don't think it would be easy living in Michael Jacksons world. How do you know if the decisions you make are right, what if you regret your decisions, what if you are confused, what if there are so many other people making things difficult, what if your husband is use to his freedom and being in control and has never had a serious partner before, what if you don't agree on key issues, what if the situation changes, what if it didn't turn out the way you dreamed it would.....who knows what she had to deal with in her own personal life and personal relationship. The both tried, they both failed....

I don't think she should be demonised because we haven't walked in her shoes. Clearly the whole thing f'd her up emotionally. How she dealt with it and how she deals with it is her business.

and fujon, i don't think Michael was able to love her unconditionally either. But that doesn't make him a bad guy.
 
Lisa Marie is spoiled and immature someone tell her to grow the _ up and take some responsibility herself, Not everything was Michael's fault just like not everything was hers. For a middle aged woman to behave the way she did - just despicable to say at least.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
hmmm well i don't know what happened and that's the only opinion i have. Where i am coming from is this.....we love Michael Jackson the performer, we don't know much otherwise...i may be in relationship that is not working, i could be heart broken, try as hard as i can, do the best i can given my up bringing, whether it be rich, poor, whatever.....and the reality is none of his friends will understand my point of view because they are his friends....and that's how i feel it is here.


The woman is still human, her upbringing is not her fault or her choice, she is trying to make it through life just like the rest of us.

i've been in situations where people turned on me because they didn't agree with what happened in my relationship....but they didn't know what i dealt with in my own mind and heart.

I think judging someone so harshly based on what you have observed from afar is unfair. I really don't think it would be easy living in Michael Jacksons world. How do you know if the decisions you make are right, what if you regret your decisions, what if you are confused, what if there are so many other people making things difficult, what if your husband is use to his freedom and being in control and has never had a serious partner before, what if you don't agree on key issues, what if the situation changes, what if it didn't turn out the way you dreamed it would.....who knows what she had to deal with in her own personal life and personal relationship. The both tried, they both failed....

I don't think she should be demonised because we haven't walked in her shoes. Clearly the whole thing f'd her up emotionally. How she dealt with it and how she deals with it is her business.

and fujon, i don't think Michael was able to love her unconditionally either. But that doesn't make him a bad guy.
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Of course MJ's real fans are his friends! We love him as the wonderful individual he was not simply b/c he was the greatest entertainer! No one is deifying him as God without faults, but, he was a human being. Many people fail to recognize that. They only see his name, and the benefits that come along with it. Lisa, was no different. Actually, she hurt him much more than the other hangers on, b/c she was his wife,(who was supposed to be his friend) the closest person to him. She did great damage, she reinforced the rumors, by bashing him, to the world-wide media, and she cared less about it. I will never respect her regardless of how many attempt to show her in a different light. I have my opinion, I'm entitled to it, I stand by it and always will.
 
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of course you are entitled to your opinion, i don't think i've said you aren't. We just don't agree on how our opinions are formed. You won't like her no matter what, i don't expect you to like her. But if you don't like her because you are on team MJ, or you didn't like her interviews, or you don't like her music then i can understand, but not liking someone because you think they didn't love someone or think she didn't try hard enough or think her upbringing was too privelaged is a bit rough. I think you just don't like her, personally i don't care much for her either..but not because of what went on in her relationship. that's between them and i'm sure they both stuffed up. If she wasn't happy then she shouldn't have to stay just because she's married to Michael Jackson. Just put yourself in her position, would you put up with things that confused you or hurt you, or stay with someone for the wrong reasons? isn't it better they broke up now than after they had kids?

anyway, i just think when we dislike someone we can come up with all sorts of reasons even if we are just guessing.

what if it turned out michael was the bad guy who wronged her, would you hate him or reason that it's his personal life and he probably has very good reasons for why he did what he did because none of us know what he was going through. well that's the way i see it now, either way no one can decide if what we are feeling is wrong, you just have to survive the best you can.

so that's fine to not like her, i don't have a problem with that, i just find some of the comments people write about her during her own personal emotional situation are unjust because we dont know, probably never will.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
of course you are entitled to your opinion, i don't think i've said you aren't. We just don't agree on how our opinions are formed. You won't like her no matter what, i don't expect you to like her. But if you don't like her because you are on team MJ, or you didn't like her interviews, or you don't like her music then i can understand, but not liking someone because you think they didn't love someone or think she didn't try hard enough or think her upbringing was too privelaged is a bit rough. I think you just don't like her, personally i don't care much for her either..but not because of what went on in her relationship. that's between them and i'm sure they both stuffed up. If she wasn't happy then she shouldn't have to stay just because she's married to Michael Jackson. Just put yourself in her position, would you put up with things that confused you or hurt you, or stay with someone for the wrong reasons? isn't it better they broke up now than after they had kids?

anyway, i just think when we dislike someone we can come up with all sorts of reasons even if we are just guessing.

what if it turned out michael was the bad guy who wronged her, would you hate him or reason that it's his personal life and he probably has very good reasons for why he did what he did because none of us know what he was going through. well that's the way i see it now, either way no one can decide if what we are feeling is wrong, you just have to survive the best you can.

so that's fine to not like her, i don't have a problem with that, i just find some of the comments people write about her during her own personal emotional situation are unjust because we dont know, probably never will.
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You're missing the point. Her character is the issue. She's priviledged, and her attitude is horrible b/c of it. In my opinion, the girl acts like the world owes her some respect, or must fall down at her feet simply b/c she's Elvis' daughter. She disregards people. This is the real world. You get respect when you give it. The girl fails to understand that.
 
This thread is being closed, because of both the LMP bashing going on in it as well as some of the things being said about MJ?!? :nono:

This isn't the first time a thread about LMP has been started and resulted in the same thing... so please do not start another one of these.

Thanks :)
 
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