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forevernmyheart said:
According to Magic & Madness, Lisa and Michael were seeing each other after the divorce. I have Moonwalk, too. I absolutely love the book! Michael is sharing his heart. He is telling us about his life, who he is, the man, the human being. I'm glad I bought it!:):)
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I am so glad I bought it too! I couldn't put the book down. Reading Michael's words and hearing him tell things was great. When did they end the relationship for good and how did that happen?
 
oldmoon20 said:
I wanted to make another thread for people to come have a discussion about her. Some other threads and boards when people try to voice their opinion they are yelled at, and stomped on basically. So I wanted to make a thread where people could come in and have a discussion, and not have to worry about people fighting. I know it can get annoying to see all these threads about Lisa but like I said before, I wanted somewhere where people of all opinions could go to. It's not the I Love Lisa Thread or I Hate Lisa Thread. I know it started out with my ranting but I was upset about everything that she had done and I couldn't write it anywhere without feeling like I was going to get yelled at or have people get angry at me.

I know she wasn't close to us and that she has to live her life now basically in regret but I'm not trying to bash her. Sometimes I do I admit because sometimes I just really really upset with what she's done. I've been trying to get over my anger and just see their relationship as it was. I know we're never really going to know the whole truth, but I want to get as much as the truth from here as I can. I'm sick of hearing the rumors and just want the facts.
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oldmoon, I am saddened at what you said here. nobody stomped on anybody in that other Lisa thread that's in Michaelmania. if they did, can you please point the post out to me? we've made a conscious attempt to keep that thread civil. so I'm a little confused here. I don't mind that you made this thread. I love discussion and so far I feel really good about this thread. I've kept my mind open about LMP and Mike, mainly because I think they loved each other deeply and were both hurt when things went south, and I'd hope that I've contributed positively toward discussion of this topic on this forum.
 
indranee said:
oldmoon, I am saddened at what you said here. nobody stomped on anybody in that other Lisa thread that's in Michaelmania. if they did, can you please point the post out to me? we've made a conscious attempt to keep that thread civil. so I'm a little confused here. I don't mind that you made this thread. I love discussion and so far I feel really good about this thread. I've kept my mind open about LMP and Mike, mainly because I think they loved each other deeply and were both hurt when things went south, and I'd hope that I've contributed positively toward discussion of this topic on this forum.
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I didn't mention any specific thread on here. There's been some threads, some not even related to Lisa that when someone tries to comment on her people start to jump on them. I'm not saying anything about that thread from Michaelmania because honestly I don't even go on that one. There was a thread that was shut down on this forum because of all the people jumping on each other and arguing and it was a thread about Lisa.

I don't mean to hurt anybody's feeling or make people upset it's just something that I've seen happen. I've had people tell me that they have also seen it happen. Please don't be hurt because of what I've said and please don't get angry.
 
marebear said:
I am so glad I bought it too! I couldn't put the book down. Reading Michael's words and hearing him tell things was great. When did they end the relationship for good and how did that happen?
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I have very little info about the ending of the relationship, but according to what I do have is, after the 1998 dinner at the Ivy, things began to cool off. Lisa and Mike corresponded some after her marriage to NC by phone.
 
oldmoon20 said:
I didn't mention any specific thread on here. There's been some threads, some not even related to Lisa that when someone tries to comment on her people start to jump on them. I'm not saying anything about that thread from Michaelmania because honestly I don't even go on that one. There was a thread that was shut down on this forum because of all the people jumping on each other and arguing and it was a thread about Lisa.

I don't mean to hurt anybody's feeling or make people upset it's just something that I've seen happen. I've had people tell me that they have also seen it happen. Please don't be hurt because of what I've said and please don't get angry.
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Hi, Moon! I've tried to engage in a civil convo in other threads about LMP/MJ relationship,and it's very contentious, disrespectful and heated. A war of words. I'm glad we have respect for each others opinions, and so far no one is fighting.
 
oldmoon20 said:
I didn't mention any specific thread on here. There's been some threads, some not even related to Lisa that when someone tries to comment on her people start to jump on them. I'm not saying anything about that thread from Michaelmania because honestly I don't even go on that one. There was a thread that was shut down on this forum because of all the people jumping on each other and arguing and it was a thread about Lisa.

I don't mean to hurt anybody's feeling or make people upset it's just something that I've seen happen. I've had people tell me that they have also seen it happen. Please don't be hurt because of what I've said and please don't get angry.
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I'm not angry, I promise! I am usually very controlled. it takes a lot to get me really angry.

I understand now what you were trying to say. I agree that these kinds of threads go south really fast because of fighting. and I credit people on this board (especially the ones who feel really, really strongly about this topic) for either staying away (lol) or just being very controlled in these two threads. you and I are actually on the same boat here. we both want to find out the facts. I want to know how it ended between them (hence I participate in that other thread) and you want to know what happened to make Lisa behave that way. in the end, we both love Mike. we both wish he'd had some happiness. and that's where I come from in this thread as well as this forum. a lot of people are in pain in this forum. I know that because I am, as well. the past three months have changed me in some fundamental way. I am different from the way I was on June 24th, 2009. I know it and have accepted it. so I try to listen, understand, and empathize when I am on this board. 'tis not the place for anger directed at each other but love and empathy. Mike would want that, no matter what.

as for Lisa and Mike, unfortunately, I don't think either of us are gonna get any solid answers we can trust. I don't see Lisa saying anything much about it. I think she is trying to heal out of the darkness she placed herself in post-2000. and saying anything much more than she already has isn't going to help her. Mike is now the happiest he has ever been. it's we who need the healing. so we're just going to have to heal ourselves. and hating/blaming/castigating Lisa or anybody else in Mike's life (except of course, his murderers) isn't going to accomplish that.

that said, I firmly believe in discussion and "talking it out". so if that helps us, I'm all for it.
 
indranee said:
I'm not angry, I promise! I am usually very controlled. it takes a lot to get me really angry.

I understand now what you were trying to say. I agree that these kinds of threads go south really fast because of fighting. and I credit people on this board (especially the ones who feel really, really strongly about this topic) for either staying away (lol) or just being very controlled in these two threads. you and I are actually on the same boat here. we both want to find out the facts. I want to know how it ended between them (hence I participate in that other thread) and you want to know what happened to make Lisa behave that way. in the end, we both love Mike. we both wish he'd had some happiness. and that's where I come from in this thread as well as this forum. a lot of people are in pain in this forum. I know that because I am, as well. the past three months have changed me in some fundamental way. I am different from the way I was on June 24th, 2009. I know it and have accepted it. so I try to listen, understand, and empathize when I am on this board. 'tis not the place for anger directed at each other but love and empathy. Mike would want that, no matter what.

as for Lisa and Mike, unfortunately, I don't think either of us are gonna get any solid answers we can trust. I don't see Lisa saying anything much about it. I think she is trying to heal out of the darkness she placed herself in post-2000. and saying anything much more than she already has isn't going to help her. Mike is now the happiest he has ever been. it's we who need the healing. so we're just going to have to heal ourselves. and hating/blaming/castigating Lisa or anybody else in Mike's life (except of course, his murderers) isn't going to accomplish that.

that said, I firmly believe in discussion and "talking it out". so if that helps us, I'm all for it.
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Thank you for understanding. :yes:
I know there's no use in blaming anyone for what happened, because that will make it worse. It just hurts to know that he was hurt like that, by the love of his life, at that time. He was hurt so much because of the media and because of those ignorant people that are around the world but I don't think he ever expected it from his own wife. I do believe they loved each other and that things just went sour and they broke it off but soon after everything cooled off they started to get friendlier. I wish I could honestly believe that last part of what I just said. It's just confusing that it says in that book that things calmed down but we still saw Lisa trashing him years later.
Some say they reconciled but than why in the world did she go on TV and trash him? That's the main thing I'm confused about.
 
I think we don't know some crucial facts. facts which made Lisa all of a sudden turn into the proverbial scorned woman. who knows, maybe once some years go by, she might want to talk about it publicly. who knows?

I agree with you oldmoon: I hate the fact that he might have been hurt. the thought of it does make me angry and sad. I wish she hadn't done what she did. at the time she was doing it, I did hate her. I didn't understand her and was pretty pissed off. but now that he's gone and having seen her reaction, I can't do that anymore. I need to heal from this myself, and I wish her the same. god knows she must be in much more dire need of it.
 
indranee said:
I think we don't know some crucial facts. facts which made Lisa all of a sudden turn into the proverbial scorned woman. who knows, maybe once some years go by, she might want to talk about it publicly. who knows?

I agree with you oldmoon: I hate the fact that he might have been hurt. the thought of it does make me angry and sad. I wish she hadn't done what she did. at the time she was doing it, I did hate her. I didn't understand her and was pretty pissed off. but now that he's gone and having seen her reaction, I can't do that anymore. I need to heal from this myself, and I wish her the same. god knows she must be in much more dire need of it.
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You're right on that point.
As much as I hate it, I don't really have any true anger anymore towards Lisa. I don't know if it's because we've discussed it or if I'm just confused on if any of the stuff heard or read actually happened. If she comes out and tells us what really happened than I don't know if I'd believe her or not. I don't really think she will any time soon . She may never say anything because it's personal, even though their relationship was basically in the spot light it doesn't mean we have to know why certain things happened. If Lisa ever apologized to Michael than I'll be happy and just move on, but if she didn't and now she regrets it than well I don't know.
I know it takes two to break a marriage and Michael did have a part of that. I don't know if it was as big as Lisa's part of it it was greater, some of us just won't ever know. We all know Michael was a wonderful human being but we still never really saw him as himself. I'm not saying he turned a 180 or anything, I don't believe that at all. I'm just saying we don't really know how he was when he was himself and when he was alone with Lisa because basically whenever we saw him, either it be concerts, or even some of his home videos he had to put on some sort of a show.
 
I just know this. he was a man, a human being. so he made some mistakes. he played his part in the breakup and the hurt they caused each other. Lisa did as well. in the end, Lisa behaved the way her nature led her. she's always had a temper and hits back when hurt. Mike was always a sweet-natured, controlled person. it doesn't mean he didn't have his passive-aggressive ways to deal with people who hurt him. it did mean that perhaps WE his fans or the public didn't see it, you know? also, let's not forget that despite his sweetness, he was stubborn as hell.

I just think that you and I see more of it from HIS point of view, not just because we love him, but because of the way he was -- sweet and gentle. Lisa's fans might not see it the same way, but no one can deny that she never was a sweet, tender lamb LOL.

so, she's bound to know that she'll bear a large part of the blame. and her behavior in the last three months tells me that she does. she's feeling guilty and defensive on top of hurt and lost beyond probably anything she thought she would ever feel at his death.
 
He definitely was stubborn. :lmao: She was for sure not a sweet tender lamb. Some say she was naive and young but really, she may have been young but she wasn't stupid and she sure had the attitude so they can't really say anything about that.

Yes we do see at his point of view. I've tried to see it from hers but again it's just hard to. I mean when we saw Michael he was sweet and tender and he never really argued or anything like that. Some times we saw him when he was a bit angry but again, we never saw him when he was alone with Lisa and how he acted when she made him mad. He may have left for long periods of time because, well, he was stubborn! I'm not saying that was right of him to do, but she had to have done something to get him that mad.
So what I'm going to believe right now is they both are to blame for it, one maybe more than the other, but it's in the past. I want to know if they ever got over that past and became friends again, even after her bashing him, but we may never know.
 
yeah, we might have to just let it rest at that.

I'm gonna go to bed :) have a nice night oldmoon. you're one of the sweetest Mike fans I've met on this board. take care :love:
 
oldmoon20 said:
Why is no one posting in here now?

confused.
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Hi, Moon. I'm still interested in this topic, but I don't have any new info. I've been researching the last time Lisa and Michael spoke to each other, but I don't have anything as of yet. What have you come up with?
 
forevernmyheart said:
Hi, Moon. I'm still interested in this topic, but I don't have any new info. I've been researching the last time Lisa and Michael spoke to each other, but I don't have anything as of yet. What have you come up with?
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Nothing.
I'm drawing a blank with everything. This thread and the macro thread....my brain is fried.
 
forevernmyheart said:
Hi, Moon. I'm still interested in this topic, but I don't have any new info. I've been researching the last time Lisa and Michael spoke to each other, but I don't have anything as of yet. What have you come up with?
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Well according to this article Lisa called him in Vegas in April 2008.

The missing link is Michael Jackson. She'd really like to have some closure with him, ask him some questions, find out what that marriage was all about in his head. Was he just using her for publicity? She really wants to know, even all these years later.'

Surprisingly enough, about a month ago Lisa Marie decided to track the fallen singing superstar down. She called him in Las Vegas, out of the blue. He was so surprised to hear from her, he couldn't even speak. She did all the talking and got no answers - and no closure, either.

When she hung up, she said: 'Well, he hasn't changed much, that's for sure. I guess that's it for him until the next telephone call in 10 more years, if then.'

No idea how accurate this is. This is the link - http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/new-idea/12585/lisa-marie-presleys-wasted-life
 
mlg2804 said:
Well according to this article Lisa called him in Vegas in April 2008.

The missing link is Michael Jackson. She'd really like to have some closure with him, ask him some questions, find out what that marriage was all about in his head. Was he just using her for publicity? She really wants to know, even all these years later.'

Surprisingly enough, about a month ago Lisa Marie decided to track the fallen singing superstar down. She called him in Las Vegas, out of the blue. He was so surprised to hear from her, he couldn't even speak. She did all the talking and got no answers - and no closure, either.

When she hung up, she said: 'Well, he hasn't changed much, that's for sure. I guess that's it for him until the next telephone call in 10 more years, if then.'

No idea how accurate this is. This is the link - http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/new-idea/12585/lisa-marie-presleys-wasted-life
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Thanks for the link. Interesting article.
 
mlg2804 said:
Well according to this article Lisa called him in Vegas in April 2008.

The missing link is Michael Jackson. She'd really like to have some closure with him, ask him some questions, find out what that marriage was all about in his head. Was he just using her for publicity? She really wants to know, even all these years later.'

Surprisingly enough, about a month ago Lisa Marie decided to track the fallen singing superstar down. She called him in Las Vegas, out of the blue. He was so surprised to hear from her, he couldn't even speak. She did all the talking and got no answers - and no closure, either.

When she hung up, she said: 'Well, he hasn't changed much, that's for sure. I guess that's it for him until the next telephone call in 10 more years, if then.'

No idea how accurate this is. This is the link - http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/new-idea/12585/lisa-marie-presleys-wasted-life
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well, if you ask me, I'm not surprised she didn't get an answer. I mean, after ALL this, if she doesn't YET know why he married her (because, duh, he LOVED her), then it's better she remain clueless.
 
mlg2804 said:
Well according to this article Lisa called him in Vegas in April 2008.

The missing link is Michael Jackson. She'd really like to have some closure with him, ask him some questions, find out what that marriage was all about in his head. Was he just using her for publicity? She really wants to know, even all these years later.'

Surprisingly enough, about a month ago Lisa Marie decided to track the fallen singing superstar down. She called him in Las Vegas, out of the blue. He was so surprised to hear from her, he couldn't even speak. She did all the talking and got no answers - and no closure, either.

When she hung up, she said: 'Well, he hasn't changed much, that's for sure. I guess that's it for him until the next telephone call in 10 more years, if then.'

No idea how accurate this is. This is the link - http://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/b/new-idea/12585/lisa-marie-presleys-wasted-life
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So she called a year ago and he couldn't even speak to her. Well that says something right there. I understand being speechless but for him to not even say anything, that speaks a lot.
 
In the article Lisa was reflecting on her life. She was very dissappointed and dissatified about lack of accomplishments. I believe she had regrets, and one was, marrying Michael. I think she looked back on their marriage, wondering what drew she and Michael together. Why did they marry. She's a perplexed woman, trying to make sense out of her life. But, after trying to bring closure by contacting Michael, she failed to understand she was responsible for her decisions/ behaviour and Michael wasn't soely at fault becuz their marriage ended.
 
I don't know if this is true or not and that he said nothing in the conversation. But if that was the first time they talked in 10 years then I don't get what she expects him to say. He moved on with his life and I think having his kids changed him. Gave him a new purpose in his life. He didn't marry her for publicity. He would not use someone like that. He knew what it was like to be used and he wouldn't do it to somebody else. She bashed him for years and especially during probably the darkest times of his life the charges and the trial. Then she calls him up to ask questions now? She could have asked him things a long time ago and not go on different tv interviews and imply she was used by him.

I know that if someone called me out of the blue that I haven't talked to in 10 years I wouldn't know how to react myself. Especially if that person hurt me badly.
 
marebear said:
I don't know if this is true or not and that he said nothing in the conversation. But if that was the first time they talked in 10 years then I don't get what she expects him to say. He moved on with his life and I think having his kids changed him. Gave him a new purpose in his life. He didn't marry her for publicity. He would not use someone like that. He knew what it was like to be used and he wouldn't do it to somebody else. She bashed him for years and especially during probably the darkest times of his life the charges and the trial. Then she calls him up to ask questions now? She could have asked him things a long time ago and not go on different tv interviews and imply she was used by him.

I know that if someone called me out of the blue that I haven't talked to in 10 years I wouldn't know how to react myself. Especially if that person hurt me badly.
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:yes:

Michael wouldn't marry someone for publicity. He may have to hold someone's hand or something, but not marry them. He wasn't a cold person, he's a loving person.
 
Lisa knew he loved her, but I think she was confused becuz reportedly they were seeing each other for awhile after the divorce, and he didn't want to reconcile. She was left feeling rejected. She didn't accept he had moved on with his life and children, without her.
 
that was in april 2008
then in august same year she called him the biggest mistake of her life what was I thinking blaaah
I'm glad she got no closure, she doesn't deserve any after everything she did to him. Michael always turned the other cheek but there's only so much that one person can take, even Michael. I hope the guilt is going to eat her away for the rest of her life
 
snowhite said:
that was in april 2008
then in august same year she called him the biggest mistake of her life what was I thinking blaaah
I'm glad she got no closure, she doesn't deserve any after everything she did to him. Michael always turned the other cheek but there's only so much that one person can take, even Michael. I hope the guilt is going to eat her away for the rest of her life
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So is April 2008 the last time they had contact? I remember Karen mentioning Lisa Marie telling her [at Michael's funeral, I think] about a phone call with Michael that "didn't end well", which was the last time they spoke. But I don't think Karen ever said how recently before Michael's passing the phone call took place. Anyway, I don't know what she expected from him. They hadn't spoken in years. And in that time, whenever she was asked about him, she wasn't speaking highly of him; which I'm sure he knew.
 
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