L.A. County Coroner Findings

hi :waving:

i found two news on the coroner has say: here is new news i found in my news paper today :yes:

coronertalk.jpg


jacksondeath.jpg
 
it can be found in the organs



cause murray admitted injecting him with the stuff that killed mike. death by someone else.whether on purpose or by accidenct

elusive it is absolutely not of the coroner's business to take into consideration what Murray told the police investigators , the coroner found out through MJ's body that it was a homicide not through murray's admission . HUGE DIFFERENCE.
 
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Well any sane person will see that although Michael MAY have begged for the drug, it was up to Murray, the person that was supposed to be caring for Michael to administer the medication properly. The bottom line is that he killed Michael, albeit unintentionally, AND he was administering a drug that is only to be used in a hospital under proper supervision. Wether Michael asked for the drug or even if he had used it in this manner in the past SHOULD be irrelevant.

You better believe though that if Murray is arrested and if this goes to trial you can bet that this alleged "begging for the drug" and Michael's use of this method in the past WILL be what Murray's lawyers will try to use to get him off the hook.

That is my biggest fear.If this happened to someone like you or I he would of been behind bars long ago but because Michael was paying him they look at it in this twisted way.
I truely believe that Michael was nieve in all this,ok he probably liked the feeling propofol gave him in being able to switch of completely and have a really good rest but after all this was what it was prescribed to him for.If it was the only thing working for him well then I don't blame him for taking it.
As I said earlier if I went to my doctor and they recomended this I wouldn't querey it so why would Michael,after all he was paying him all this money he must of thought he was getting the best care.

Also if Michael was so keen on looking after his body ie having health shakes etc you wouldn't pump a load of stuff in your body if you knew it was going to harm you.

It also doesn't help with the fact that they know that Michael had problems before with prescription drugs this just adds to the "yeah he knew what he was doing" :cry:

I really don't know what the outcome to all this will be :cry: My stomach is churning :(

Yepp, u guys are right!
I just hope for the best and I'm praying...!
 
Then I wonder what the point was in Murray trying to delay Michael's death pronouncement according the article about what happened with the EMT's when they got to the house. Unless some told him differently, he surely had to have known that an investigation would turn up the propofol in Michael's body regardless of the time of administration.

maybe he didn't have enough knowledge on propofol since he wasn't an anesthesiologist? I don't know I'm just saying
 
actually , coroner's offices don't run tests to detect propofol normally and that would have been the case if propofol was not mentioned . and yes propofol disappears within few hours and ONLY VERY FEW and very specialized labs in the U.S can perform these tests and detect propofol in the body .
 
Have you not just contradicted yourself and made an assumption. You just said the full report wasn't released, then you talk about 'multiple puncture sites' listed in the full report....?

Do you know something we don't? Do you have the full report?

This i a very good question

I can see people are trying to get Murray off the hook by saying MJ is to blame because he asked for the Diprivan. I can understand that they feel for Murray because he got himself into this crazy situation, however, regardless of whether Michael asked for the drug, a doctor should know better than to give him an anaesthetic when (a) he knows he's not a qualified anaesthesiologist and (b) he is aware of the dangers of administering the drug outside of a hospital. He can't shift the blame to Michael, because Michael didn't go all out and inject this stuff into himself. Murray took the needle, Murray stuck it into Michael's veins, Murray pumped him with all the crap, and by doing so, Murray caused Michael's death.

I'm probably the only one here who feels this way, but I do feel sorry for Dr Conrad. The poor guy dug himself into a hole that he will never get out of, and his life is pretty much over. He will land himself in a jail cell for one stupid mistake, will probably get threats and attacks from Michael Jackson fans, but in the end, he has no one else to blame except himself and his negligence and stupidity.

I could never feel anything but pure contempt for this man.

omg I cant take this any more I get away from the TV come here coz I dont want to hear the stupid sh*t thats being said now ppl like you come along the report we have doesn't say any thing about the sh*t your talking about do you work for the coroner of some thing ?
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROOF STFU THIS IS THE LAST THING i NEED RIGHT NOW

Yea where is your proof?

wow wow wow .....hold on a minute...I agree with most of your post except the part where say you feel bad for Murray.....Now that makes me want to throw up!!! Murray didn't feel bad for Michael when he was killing him...he wasn't feeling bad for Michael when it took him an hour and a half to call 911 , Murray wasn't feeling bad for Michael when he was on his private cell phone for 47 minutes instead of 911 to save Michael's life...So you say you feel bad for Murray......OMG.....Please.....I am now going to go throw up.

100% agreed

It's worth mentioning that the presence of any narcotics unrelated to cause of death will have a very significant effect on what the attorney general concludes.

The truth will out. In due course.

Again what do you know, and do you have proof to back this up?


so why are they a saying they are with holding the full toxis if thats it. and are only releasing the cause of death and nothing else..the drugs that caused thedeath have been released but nothing else.

The time of death is key. Murray is a liar and I am sure he is lying about his so call time line.

They are holding onto this info for a reason. I don't care what nobody says, they can determine Michael's true time of death.

This will be the difference between invol. manslaughter and 2nd degree murder. (IMO)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorazepam

Severe respiratory failure. Benzodiazepines, including lorazepam, may depress central nervous system respiratory drive and are contraindicated in severe respiratory failure. An example would be the inappropriate use to relieve anxiety associated with acute severe asthma. The anxiolytic effects may also be detrimental to a patient's willingness and ability to fight for breath. However, if mechanical ventilation becomes necessary, lorazepam may be used to facilitate deep sedation.



The problem with a lot of these types of drugs, is that they affect the central nervous system in sutch a way that they can effect the ability to breath properly during sleep. It do relieve anxiety, and makes you relax. But it also effect the part of your system that govern you breathing. There are two different systems in our body; one is governed by "will", and one that is "automatic" ( like the heart). Breathing and use of muscles that affect breathing is governed by the same system that these medications affect (sorry for my poor explanation- I am not a medical trained person, this is a layman trying to explain what I know about this- maybe soneone with a better knowledge can help to clarify?).

My guess s that Lorazepam affected his system in making him sedated to a point where when the added effect of Propofol came, his ability to breath was alredy supressed to a point where this tipped his system over the edge. Propofol itself has side effects that can cause respiratory failure, and in this case there were two powerful drugs that added up to this. The point is, that this is KNOWN side effects. There is no way a doctor would not know the risk, regardless of amount used.

Very good post.

exactly , that was it . he felt he was obligated to deliver , inorder to delriver the poor man had to sleep . he was not addcited , he was not drugged , no piankillers ,nothing .

Exactly Michael was under a lot of pressure to do this concert, and I am sure a lot of the pressure was self-inflected. Sleep was key if he was going to be at the top of his game.

August 28, 2009
LKL Web Exclusive: MJ investigation looking at Dr. Murray
Posted: 06:03 PM ET
This is a LKL Web Exclusive by Defense Attorney TRENT COPELAND – who will also be a guest on tonight’s show – agree or disagree with him, let us know!
art.mjackson.gi.jpg

With the critical question of the exact cause of Michael Jackson’s death now having been categorically answered by the LA County Coroner’s office, the inquiry now is assessing the impact this has on the case.
Is it now clearly an investigation of involuntary manslaughter? Or does the clear and unequivocal official cause of death as “propofol intoxication” make it more likely that the case has evolved into a second degree murder charge? And does this rule out other doctor’s for any role they may have had in supplying Jackson with other medications?
Here is my answer: I have believed all along that all roads in the investigation would lead to Dr. Conrad Murray. For now, any other doctor that provided Jackson with medication can breathe a collective sigh of relief. They will at least not be charged in his death.
Dr Murray, on the other hand, has from the beginning been in the center of the storm. And with his alleged admission that he alone administered the powerful anesthetic Propofol to Jackson outside of a hospital setting in combination with the multitude of other drugs that he allegedly injected into Jackson’s system, the barometric pressure on the LA County District’s Attorney’s office has now just risen considerably too.
The facts as we seem to now know them are shocking — probably shockingly criminal. And here is the challenge for the DA’s office. Do they simply aim for the low hanging fruit and charge Dr. Murray with “involuntary manslaughter” (a relative slap on the wrist) which in all likelihood would result in a maximum sentence of 2 years given the doctors lack of criminal history? Or do they take the aggressive approach and charge him with 2nd Degree Murder (15 years to life) given the apparent recklessness and conscious disregard for Jackson’s safety?
In the end, it may be that Dr. Murray’s unblemished and stellar medical record may actually work against him. It is hard to imagine that any doctor, particularly a board certified cardiologist, would believe that administering Propofol, in someone’s bedroom, without the benefit of heart monitors, respirators and other essential equipment to assure the patient’s safety could have made the decisions that Murray made believing that he was even remotely in the backyard of established medical competency.
Clearly, if any one was in a position to have known better and to have appreciated the life-threatening risks of all of this it would be a cardiologist. And so it seems that the DA’s office will almost certainly consider the totality of circumstances (the volume of Propofol sufficient to produce intoxication) and the doctor’s disregard of the risks when it determines whether this is an “involuntary manslaughter” case or Second Degree Murder. The road seems to be winding towards the latter.

Filed under: LKL Web ExclusiveLarry King LiveMichael Jackson



Murder: Second degree

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life.

Excellent Excellent post.

Propofol

Main purpose: General anesthesia
Mode of delivery: Intravenous

Lorazepam

Main purpose: anxiety, insomnia
Mode of delivery: oral and intravenous

Midazolam

Main purpose: insomnia, premedication before surgery
Mode of delivery: oral and intravenous

Diazepam

Main purpose: anxiety, insomnia
Mode of delivery: oral and intravenous

Lidocaine

Main purpose: local anesthetic, suppress fast rhythms of the heart
Mode of delivery: Intravenous

Ephedrine

Main purpose: weight loss, energy booster (temporary improvements in either mental or physical function) , decongestant, treat low blood pressure.
Mode of delivery: Oral, intravenous
why would he give these drugs by IV if they could be given by mouth. If Michael was so called up and nothing was working makes since to me to give it to him by mouth.

But if Michael was actually sleep he would not have been able to give him the pills by mouth. but could easily placed in IV. Michael would not had even known.

Dr. Murder is a pathological liar. I believe nothing he says. He clams nothing would work, So what I am suppose to take a liar at his word, I don't think so.

As far as I am concerned the first dosage worked just fine and he knew it would. This is why he had all the other medicine in liquid form. Once Michael was out he could give Michael anything he wanted to do the job he was paid to do. He had the perfect combination of drugs to kill Michael.

Murray ain't that stupid he knew exactly what he was doing.

don't forget the delay in calling 911, making the medics work on him even though he was already dead, refusing to call him at the house, refusing to sign the death certificate at the hospital. He did exactly what they paid him to do.


I don't understand WHY he didn't stop that? He must have known that his health IS more important to us that concerts/albums/recordings:(

Obviously that is not the perception he had.
 
I understand the hate and the frustration, I really do. But when I see posts like one I read in this thread saying "I can't wait to have the picture of Murray in handcuffs as my signature" I have to tell you guys that we should try to live by Michael's example and try not to hate. Even though it is hard not to. We should remember Michael by celebrating his music and the joy his legacy brought to the world. That's what I try to do.
 
I understand the hate and the frustration, I really do. But when I see posts like one I read in this thread saying "I can't wait to have the picture of Murray in handcuffs as my signature" I have to tell you guys that we should try to live by Michael's example and try not to hate. Even though it is hard not to. We should remember Michael by celebrating his music and the joy his legacy brought to the world. That's what I try to do.
How is justice considered hateful?
 
He didn't want Mike to be pronounced dead at the house, he wanted it done at the hospital. He was probably hoping they would think it was an overdose. If Michael had been pronounced dead at the house, I think it would have immediately become a crime scene.
yo yo yo yo yo access hollywood last nite had the scoop

said that the police never felt the doctor was telling the truth. he was told not to leave the hospital, or he was advised not to and he did anyway.

so when they got to the house, they filled out the paperwork and put 187 which is the police code for murder.

so they been on his ass from the beginning
 
yo yo yo yo yo access hollywood last nite had the scoop

said that the police never felt the doctor was telling the truth. he was told not to leave the hospital, or he was advised not to and he did anyway.

so when they got to the house, they filled out the paperwork and put 187 which is the police code for murder.

so they been on his ass from the beginning

Thanks Soso... I hadn't heard that. I found the link to the Access Hollywood report...

http://www.accesshollywood.com/michael-jacksons-cause-of-death-revealed-august-28-2009_video_1152098
 
I absolutely don't understand how you can feel bad for Murray...seriously are you kidding me?
This ************** killed Michael...and I do not care, if Michael begged or cried in front of him to get it You just can't give propofol at home and then all the other drugs on top...then wait more then an hour to call emergency and lie all the time.
 
I will not feel bad for Murray. He is responsible for this, wether the outcome was intentional or not. And I am pretty shore, that if this kind of treatment was given to anyone close to you (as in a family member or a close loved one) you would not have the same level of emphaty for this man. Its a good principle to give people the benefit of the doubt, and to say that nobody is guilty until proven otherwise, but in this case the evidence of being the responsible part for Michaels death is proven.
Murray admitted to giving Michael a very dangerous treatment over a period of time, without taking the nessesary precautions. And this happened while he was paid a huge salary. It is enablers like this, that are responsible for many peoples death. And its about greed, and low ethical standards. If he could treat Michael this way, how do you think he would treat a regular person?
I am not glad to hear the open threats against him, as this man should be given the punishment within the legal system. Sadly, I have no real faith in the legal system being able to give him the punishment he deserves. But this man should, and will pay for his actions by being known the rest of his misarable life as the man responsible for Michaels death. I just hope he somehow realise the amount of grief he has caused to so many, and that he has stolen a father from three children, a son, a loved family member- and on top of that a man who had so mutch to give to the world in terms of hope, happiness and inspiration. But; the responsebility is in my mind shared by the people that almost broke Michaels spirit, and took away his innocence and faith in people.
 
hey those 'cats' around... if this response was meant for Chanya then please don't imediately jump on her.
She didn't ask for empathy or said she's feeling bad for Murray... I think she only tried to make ppl focus more on something positive!

Let's try to have some understanding for eachother... all of us are dealing in different ways with the happenings.

It's so crazy... I mean... this time was meant to celebrate the biggest star alive with the best show live on stage in London at the moment...

I know where Chanya is coming from... I miss the positive craziness of fandom here on the mjjc board also a bit.
Then again, yes I also feel I want so much justice to be served also.

Well back on topic...

I would so much like to get the complete coroner findings... a complete autopsy report, then again I even feel torn about that cuz it's revealing so much what's just so private maybe! *sigh* Michael always was so sensitive with privacy. And I do not want to forget about his wishes for my stupid need of justice, know what I mean???
He's dead, it will not bring him back nor really help him anymore. But his right and wish for privacy seems to be gone now totally. All his health problems are out there. Every single pill he ever took is discussed from alpha to omega and back. Sometimes this feels unbearable for me... and other times I just want to know to understand what really went on.
I really don't even know what to feel different moments. It's crazy times.
 
hey those 'cats' around... if this response was meant for Chanya then please don't imediately jump on her.
She didn't ask for empathy or said she's feeling bad for Murray... I think she only tried to make ppl focus more on something positive!

Let's try to have some understanding for eachother... all of us are dealing in different ways with the happenings.

It's so crazy... I mean... this time was meant to celebrate the biggest star alive with the best show live on stage in London at the moment...

I know where Chanya is coming from... I miss the positive craziness of fandom here on the mjjc board also a bit.
Then again, yes I also feel I want so much justice to be served also.

Well back on topic...

I would so much like to get the complete coroner findings... a complete autopsy report, then again I even feel torn about that cuz it's revealing so much what's just so private maybe! *sigh* Michael always was so sensitive with privacy. And I do not want to forget about his wishes for my stupid need of justice, know what I mean???
He's dead, it will not bring him back nor really help him anymore. But his right and wish for privacy seems to be gone now totally. All his health problems are out there. Every single pill he ever took is discussed from alpha to omega and back. Sometimes this feels unbearable for me... and other times I just want to know to understand what really went on.
I really don't even know what to feel different moments. It's crazy times.

Sorry Mechi...:cheeky:
I did not intend to jump on anyone. Its just that its pretty difficult to extend my symphaty as far as to Murray. I feel kind of stretched to the limit.............
And yes, I have the same ambivalent feeling when it comes to this ( respecting Michaels privacy versus the need to know and understand).
The problem seem also to be that with every "source" telling their story, it gets more confusing. And the confusion makes it difficult to focus on positive things, like his music. Some day though, this hopefully will be over.
Sorry Chanya.........
Its just that, you are doing the right thing adressing people for crossing the line. At the same time, Murray is not defendable. Its more about us keeping a higher standard, then about defending Murray. Thats how I see it. Lets not loose our own moral, and even if we are angry- let us keep our standards up.
 
I read in the News of the World "tabloid" that Murray is going to say mj woke up at some point and overdosed himslef by increasing the dosage of propofol , I want to ask would the coroner consider it homicide if there was any doubt that mj could have overdosed himself ?
 
I read this thread yesterday... This is so depressing and wrong... :cry: Really, this should not have happened at all. Indeed, Murray should be in custody already.
 
I read in the News of the World "tabloid" that Murray is going to say mj woke up at some point and overdosed himslef by increasing the dosage of propofol , I want to ask would the coroner consider it homicide if there was any doubt that mj could have overdosed himself ?
You mean overdosed/injected him through IV :)
MJ is dead he can say that he did or didn't.
That's not good defense.
According to Murray's time line, MJ was given even the first sedative through IV. why is that? instead of taking a pill.
Like someone said in this thread or another, there was a possibility MJ was knocked out before, then all the sedatives were injected through IV in his body.
 
You mean overdosed/injected him through IV :)
MJ is dead he can say that he did or didn't.
That's not good defense.
According to Murray's time line, MJ was given even the first sedative through IV. why is that? instead of taking a pill.
Like someone said in this thread or another, there was a possibility MJ was knocked out before, then all the sedatives were injected through IV in his body.
I want to know , would the coroner state mj's death as homicide if there was doubt mj could have overdosed himself ?
 
o_O why doing this??

because he found mj dying and he wanted to make it like an overdose, he thought propofol would disappear and the other drugs would be detected , remember most of the meds bottles were empty and beside mj's bed . an overdose scene staged by Murray.
 
^^^I know it is dreadful to imagine.
But I believe there was a possibility, it could've been true.
For me, it doesn't make any difference.
 
Credit to RainbowAngel :

Anesth Analg 2009; 108:1182-1184
© 2009 International Anesthesia Research Society
doi: 10.1213/ane.0b013e318198d45e

ANESTHETIC PHARMACOLOGY

Death from Propofol: Accident, Suicide, or Murder?

Robert R. Kirby, MD*, James M. Colaw, JD, and Sgt Michael M. Douglas, BA Criminal Justice

From the *Department of Anesthesiology, The University of Florida College of Medicine, Gainesville, Florida; Eighth Judicial Circuit of Florida, Gainesville, Florida; and SGT Tactical Impact Unit, Gainesville Police Department, Gainesville, Florida.


Abstract

A 24-yr-old woman was found dead in her home from apparent propofol "toxicity." Her blood level of propofol was 4.3 µg/mL. She had no history of drug abuse and no evidence of such behavior at autopsy. The medical examiner and police investigators felt that she died from probable homicide. Attention was focused on a male registered nurse acquaintance, who had acquired propofol and other drugs in the course of his regular duties in a surgical intensive care unit. This is the first reported case of murder with propofol.


Introduction

Propofol has been used in anesthesiology since 1986. Although its clinical properties are well known to anesthesia providers, knowledge concerning its abuse potential and more complex issues, such as its use in suicide, are less commonly appreciated. Before 1992, clinicians and the manufacturer were convinced that such abuse was rare to nonexistent. Since 1992, however, reports have been published (largely in forensic medical journals) concerning abuse, accidental overdose and suicide. Presented herein is the first report involving murder with propofol, and a review of the literature about propofol diversion.

CASE DESCRIPTION

A 24-yr-old, 5'5 in., 138 pound female was found dead in her house near Gainesville, Florida by police detectives and fire rescue personnel on November 10, 2005. Numerous items, including syringes, needles, and two empty 20 mL vials of 1% propofol (10 mg/mL), were found in grocery store bags lying on the ground adjacent to garbage cans outside the house. After the initial crime scene investigation, an autopsy was performed. The left antecubital fossa had a pinpoint puncture wound with underlying subcutaneous hemorrhage. The puncture wound directly overlaid a subcutaneous vein. No other premortem physical abnormalities were noted.

Laboratory analysis revealed a blood propofol concentration of 4.3 µg/mL. This value is within the range of blood propofol concentrations (1.3–6.8 µg/mL) after a bolus induction dose of 2.5 mg/kg of body weight. The medical examiner ruled that the manner of death was homicide. She noted that the fatal dose of propofol was administered by someone with skill in IV injections.

Follow-up investigation of the propofol national drug code lot numbers on the bottles at the crime scene revealed the drug had been obtained from an automated Omnicell® dispenser (Omnicell Headquarters, 1201 Charleston Road, Mountain View, CA) by a male registered nurse who worked in the surgical intensive care of Shands Hospital at the University of Florida. The most recent propofol had been dispensed to him on November 3, 2005. On or about the day of her death (between November 8 and 9, 2005), he left the area, subsequently went briefly to Georgia on approximately November 24, 2005, and ultimately flew to Ireland on November 29, 2005.

After further investigation, a second degree murder warrant was issued for the suspect on January 24, 2006. In June 2006, he was apprehended in the West African Republic of Senegal. On October 16, 2006, he was transported to the Alachua County Department of the Jail by the United States Marshall’s Service, and on November 29, 2007, the prior indictment for second degree murder was upgraded to first degree murder. Trial commenced on May 19, 2008. On May 23, he was found guilty of first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

DISCUSSION

In cases such as this one, investigation involves the determination of the following: was drug abuse or drug dependence involved, and was death accidental, by suicide or caused by a third party? Drug abuse is "the use of a psychoactive substance in a manner detrimental to the individual or society but not meeting criteria for substance or drug dependence."1 Drug dependence is characterized by several typical findings including "1) compulsion or craving; 2) loss of control over the amount or frequency of the drug used, and 3) continued use of the drug despite adverse consequences."2

The abuse potential of propofol was not recognized initially. As late as 1992, Stuart Pharmaceuticals reported no propofol abuse or "Diprivan-seeking" behavior. However, propofol is increasingly popular as a drug of abuse for several reasons, including rapid onset (
 
I want to know , would the coroner state mj's death as homicide if there was doubt mj could have overdosed himself ?
MJ had the doctor to look after him. According to the reports, all sedatives given to MJ through IV, no one can do the IV by himself/herself. Also, MJ is not alive to say 'Yes I did' or "no I didn't'. Doctor will have to take responsibility as far as I know. Besides, MJ wouldn't have been conscious to overdose himself after all these sedatives were injected in his body. Some fans say even the first dosage of Valium would have knocked MJ down.
 
I don't believe MJ overdosed himslef , I don't even doubt that murray did kill mj .

my point is : as you see from the article RainbowAngel posted , there were cases of propofol overdoses and ivs were used , and although mj used it before the coroner determined the death was homicide , take into consideration the coroner would not have based his conclusions on what Murray said but on what he saw himself , mj's body . something made him rule the death as homicide .
 
Sorry Chanya.........
Its just that, you are doing the right thing adressing people for crossing the line. At the same time, Murray is not defendable.

WTF? I don't know how I was defending Murray in my post. That is very shocking for me to read, I would never defend that man. :cry: I was only calling out for people to not be blinded by hate. What is wrong with that?
 
I think Michael didn't have enough time to take anything himself. With all that stuff in his blood, with a needle in his arm, I believe, it would be too difficult to him physically to do that. He must have been too weak. If Michael really woke up, by the time Murrey came back (in 2 minutes) he probably was still trying to realize what is going on. Murrey only makes things worse to himself saying that he left the room for 2 minutes. If Michael wasn't breathing for only two minutes, he still could be rescued. :( It's like to kill someone twice. The overdose could be an accident. But if doctor delayed 911 call on purpose, he has no chance.

sorry for my English..
 
y point is : as you see from the article RainbowAngel posted , there were cases of propofol overdoses and ivs were used , and although mj used it before the coroner determined the death was homicide , take into consideration the coroner would not have based his conclusions on what Murray said but on what he saw himself , mj's body . something made him rule the death as homicide .
only thing really i guess is the amount of the other drugs murray gave him. the coroner i presume knows the levels and knows that mj would have been in no fit state to inject himself. and also my first comment re murray admitting he gave it to mj
 
only thing really i guess is the amount of the other drugs murray gave him. the coroner i presume knows the levels and knows that mj would have been in no fit state to inject himself. and also my first comment re murray admitting he gave it to mj

I believe the coroner's job is to base his results on the tests and the body's condition , I don't think he usually base his results on what witnesses or the suspects say they did or did not do.
 
if thats the case then what other reason could u have for him calling it homicide other than what i said above interms of the levels of the other drugs and mj not being able to administer. cause the only other thing is physcial markings to show someone else killed u like a standard homicide.
 
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