JUST IN: Michael Jackson died of lethal levels of propofol, court documents show

[Mechi]

You were at the rehearsals? I meant from the video of TDCAU.

What fan accounts? From everyone else I've heard, Michael seemed fine. Think about it. The man you saw in the TDCAU clips didn't look like he was on his deathbed.

Especially for you...
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73759&page=10

I do believe those fans... and it's heart wrenching... it really is.

One does not hire a doctor for a healthy 50 year old and pay him a horrendously overpayed salery.
One does not hire a nutrition to remind a healthy adult person of eating.
One does not think one needs an insurance covering overdose for a healthy 50 year old.
This all costs money... and even if AEG or Mr. Anschutz should have enough... they don't throw it out of the window for no reason uh?!

You know, I've loved my boyfriend as much as a human being can love someone and I've lost him only days after Michael... but he was suffering a brain tumour, nothing could have saved him, so I'm coming to terms with it step by step.

But Michaels death... it's torture somehow... things told to us just too often do not make sense!!!

I can't get it in my brain, my heart or my soul like that.
And I count with never really knowing what went on and I also count with that those really responsible will never be even only questioned.

But it is already proven fact to me that however, Michael Jackson, a father of three, a son, a brother, a friend... the man all of us loved, our star, our angel, our light, our idol... call him however... Michael Jackson could clearly be still alive, that's why I can not get over it, while things told us why he died, do not add up.

If you want to believe a movie of 2 minutes more than fellow fans, then you're entitled to that, as you're entitled to build your opinion on soap bubbles if you want.
Then it will be just the way that we agree to disagree probably.

 

[ElleBella]

I can't assume that everyone who's telling their side of the story is getting paid.

No, I'm talking about the people from AEG and whoever was going to make money from the concerts.

 

[LindaC781]

From the Davis Drug Guide, 10th Edition:

Quick Look-Up .gname {font-family:Helvetica; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold} .alert {font-family:Helvetica; font-size:150%; font-weight:bold; color:#ffffff} .copyright {font-size:80%} .head1 {font-family:arial; font-weight:bold; font-size=12pt} .head2 {font-family:arial; font-weight:bold; font-size=10pt} .head3 {font-family:arial; font-style:italic; font-size=10pt} .plain {font-family:arial; font-size:10pt} td {font-family:arial; font-size:10pt} .link {font-family:arial; color:#0000ff; font-size:10pt; text-decoration:none} .copyright {font-family:arial; font-size:8pt} DAVIS'S Drug Guide for NURSES TENTH EDITION

propofol
(proe-poe-fol)
Diprivan, Disoprofol

CLASSIFICATION(S)
Therapeutic: general anesthetics

Pregnancy Category B

INDICATIONS

• Induction of general anesthesia in children > 3 yr and adults • Maintenance of balanced anesthesia when used with other agentsin children > 2 months and adults • Initiation and maintenance of monitored anesthesia care (MAC) • Sedation of intubated, mechanically ventilated patients in intensive care units (ICUs)
ACTION

• Short-acting hypnotic. Mechanism of action is unknown • Produces amnesia • Has no analgesic properties • Therapeutic Effects: ○ Induction and maintenance of anesthesia
PHARMACOKINETICS

Absorption: Administered IV only, resulting in complete absorption
Distribution: Rapidly and widely distributed. Crosses the blood-brain barrier well; rapidly redistributed to other tissues. Crosses the placenta and enters breast milk
Protein Binding: 95-99%
Metabolism and Excretion: Rapidly metabolized by the liver
Half-life: 3-12 hr (blood-brain equilibration half-life 2.9 min)

TIME OF ACTION

loss of consciousness ROUTE ONSET PEAK DURATION† IV 40 sec unknown 3-5 min †Time to recovery is 8 min (up to 19 min if opioid analgesics have been used)

CONTRAINDICATIONS/PRECAUTIONS

Contraindicated in: • Hypersensitivity to propofol, soybean oil, egg lecithin, or glycerol • Labor and deliveryUse Cautiously in: • Cardiovascular disease • Lipid disorders (emulsion may have detrimental effect) • Increased intracranial pressure • Cerebrovascular disorders • Geriatric (>60 yr), debilitated, or hypovolemic patients (lower induction and maintenance dosage reduction recommended) • Children < 3 yr (for induction of anesthesia), children

 

[elusive moonwalker]

One does not hire a doctor for a healthy 50 year old and pay him a horrendously overpayed salery.

any artist /band going on tour has a doctor.

One does not think one needs an insurance covering overdose for a healthy 50 year old.

i would think insurance polices are pretty standard when covering something like this ie a singer going on tour.



mj wasnt healthy. photos of how skinny he is show that. obviously coming from not eating and sleeping properly

 

[smoothcriminal12]

No, I'm talking about the people from AEG and whoever was going to make money from the concerts.

:mello: Who knows what/who to believe anymore...

 

[riviera1992]

Archangel, I agree MJ may have known of the risks and should have stayed away from it. But I am not so sure he knew how risky this all was. MJ has stayed away from other medications and drugs before because he knew the risks etc. But from all accounts MJ touted this drug as safe!! He thought as long as somebody monitored him he would be safe. Again he trusted someone who failed him.

As a dr. myself I have to admit that Conrad was the responsible party in this case. Conrad and all other docs who did not maintain how unsafe and dangerous it is to administer propofol outside of the hospital, and for insomnia, failed as gate-keepers in the medical community. They are like lax parents.

And no, I don't think this is just a celebrity thing. If you and I had money and desperately needed some meds to sleep, we would go and get something that we think will work for us (especially when you think it is relatively safe).

I find myself getting annoyed with MJ for being so stubborn, but it isn't something unique to him or anybody else. The difference is, someone out there was corrupt enough or renegade enough to do something so risky once the money was right. If all the docs were united in saying no, this wouldn't have happened at all!!

So you a doctor hey? Tell me why NOONE of MJ's docs refered him to a medical marijuana clinic that's been around for a long time in CA?

I was an insomniac myself I tried Valium, Ativan, Ambient, Melatonine, Valerian and natural Rescue remedy essence in white wine. Well let me tell you all those work very little and after tossing and turning for hours you get such a migraine I would just start screaming "Somebody please hit me, take me out with a baseball bat I don't care, just put me out of my misery".

Now when I come back from my very demanding job all wired and it's midnight and I have to be back there early, I smoke less than half a joint and I'm out till morning. Get up all relaxed and fine without any drowsiness. Medical marijuana saves life but since BIG Pharma don't get to pocket the money (yet) they won't allow it.

 

[Aengil]

TO reiterate, the Lethal dose is well under what they found in MJ. Apnea is the cessation of breathing. And "mcg" means micrograms...

Interesting, but... I didn't think we knew exactly what they found in MJ. I thought all we knew was that the coroner stated 'toxicology analysis showed that Michael Jackson had lethal levels of PROPOFOL in his blood' without actually specifying the level found?

So what tells us that the 'lethal dose is well under what they found in MJ'? Sorry if I'm missing something there.

Also, that information clearly states for GA it "May also be given intermittently in increments of 25-50 mg" which is what Murray (claims) he gave?

 

[cryingangel]

After the trial, I felt like an expert in American laws. After this, we'll all be experts in meds.

You always learn something with Michael :doh: Sadly, because of all the weird reasons :doh:

 

[Goodbye Michael]

So you a doctor hey? Tell me why NOONE of MJ's docs refered him to a medical marijuana clinic that's been around for a long time in CA?

I was an insomniac myself I tried Valium, Ativan, Ambient, Melatonine, Valerian and natural Rescue remedy essence in white wine. Well let me tell you all those work very little and after tossing and turning for hours you get such a migraine I would just start screaming "Somebody please hit me, take me out with a baseball bat I don't care, just put me out of my misery".

Now when I come back from my very demanding job all wired and it's midnight and I have to be back there early, I smoke less than half a joint and I'm out till morning. Get up all relaxed and fine without any drowsiness. Medical marijuana saves life but since BIG Pharma don't get to pocket the money (yet) they won't allow it.

dope isn't for everyone though. good that it works for you but some people get very paranoid and can have other side effects. and it's addictive. i wouldn't think a doctor would send michael jackson down to a marijuana clinic when they have access to all sorts of meds to help induce sleep. bottom line is these doctors cross the line all to often. its all about $$$$. propofol without an anaesthesiologist for crying out loud, i'm no expert but that smacks of stupidity. The doctor is supposed to be a proffessional with proffessional ethics, laws, codes of conduct, duty of care etc etc etc. Money can buy anyone it seems.

 

[82Thriller84]

After the trial, I felt like an expert in American laws. After this, we'll all be experts in meds.

You always learn something with Michael :doh: Sadly, because of all the weird reasons :doh:

Although I didn't look into and learned about the Trial as much as I have this devastating, heartbreaking situation, which is far worse than the trial.

I Agree with you I feel like an expert in Propofol and the other unpronouncable drugs and other medical stuff. It feels weird and just horrifying

I think other than Michael being Exhausted after hours and hours of rehearsal almost every day for weeks and anxious about the tour reaction. I personally think from what I've heard and what most of us saw in the Videos of lovely Michael out and about, he seemed happy and full of life, and with his beautiful children.

That's my opinion

 

[ShadowMaster]

After the trial, I felt like an expert in American laws. After this, we'll all be experts in meds.

You always learn something with Michael :doh: Sadly, because of all the weird reasons :doh:

so true:no:dam& you made me cry...

 

[Mechi]

any artist /band going on tour has a doctor.

with them already months/weeks before? getting such a salery?
aside from that Michael wasn't going 'on tour'.

i would think insurance polices are pretty standard when covering something like this ie a singer going on tour.

First I hope we still agree on that the 'singer' then is probably not to call really healthy?
This is one of the things which never got clear to me.
The question then is if the overdose is really covered.
Was never confirmed by insurance yet! I'm looking that up on the internet every day.
Think it's not covered. An overdose usually is only covered by an insurance when named in the record of the physical done for the insurance. At least it has to be named in the contract... so that the insurance is fairly able to estimate the risk.
You think that happened here with porpofol or even diprivan? I don't think so. Lloyds is might able to make up with a high risk... but the syndicate is not plain stupid.
I guess this overdose is not covered.
Following this thought the question is, why Randy Philips did blast almost imediately around into the media 'that an overdose is covered'... they probably knew about some medication and/or problems.
Then again how honest were they with their public statements before 'passing a physical with flying colors'... probably they needed and wanted more insurance as they didn't make it to cover all shows? But how responsible is that towards Michael then pumping up the shows to the number of 50?
They hired ppl around him and didn't see his health going down?


I have a hard time making sense out of what they especially Randy Philips said.

To me it looks very much they wanted to wrench money out of Michael as much as possible... that's how it looks very much.
I will not go that far that I say they hired a murderer when they saw Michael was going down health wise cuz they have the easier way to make money now out of him than they would with him very seriously sick.

But things as they were presented yet are not adding up, also from AEG side.
And before all these questions are not answered and before things they are telling do not make sense I will for sure take care not to support AEG with my money.

mj wasnt healthy. photos of how skinny he is show that. obviously coming from not eating and sleeping properly

I agree... especially since I do have it much easier to believe fans more than Frank DiLeo, Randy Philips et.al.... simply because what those fans say makes so much more sense.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

with them already months/weeks before? getting such a salery?

if they are already there doctor to start with as murray was he handt signed any contracts for london yet he was on mjs payroll until the tour started. and i doubt many other artists are using said doctor to give them diprivan murray was there for that reason and nothing else imo.thats why mj wanted him in london

 

[Mechi]

if they are already there doctor to start with as murray was he handt signed any contracts for london yet he was on mjs payroll until the tour started. and i doubt many other artists are using said doctor to give them diprivan murray was there for that reason and nothing else imo.thats why mj wanted him in london

sorry elusive I can't follow you on this one I fear...

-Murray on Michaels payroll until the tour started?
do you have prove for that? all I read yet, not really reliable sources though, he was payed by AEG when he was there on the 25thJune. But it would be interesting to really know since when he was Michaels doc and if Michael payed him.

-you doubt many other artists are using said doctor to give them diprivan?
well I instantly hope so... because doctors shouldn't do that if not in the right monitoring setting first and second also cuz diprivan will not really help the real problem of insomnia if other artists suffer from that. Bad enough if Murray was there for that reason.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

sorry elusive I can't follow you on this one I fear...

that cool. thats what discussion is all about

Murray on Michaels payroll until the tour started?
do you have prove for that? all I read yet, not really reliable sources though, he was payed by AEG when he was there on the 25thJune. But it would be interesting to really know since when he was Michaels doc and if Michael payed him

no i dont but as he was being hired for the tour yet no contracts for that had been signed yet i presume imo he was on mjs pay roll, now whether the money was actually coming from AEG as supposely they were paying for the house aswell in order to pay murray is another question. but offically imo until the tour started as the contract was for that then he was working for mj as mj supposedly told AEG i want this doctor and not one they could ahve picked up in london

 

[Mechi]

that cool. thats what discussion is all about

lol more a language problem my english is sometimes just so :doh: emberassing NOT perfect...
too stupid I somehow hoped you could clear up some of the stuff keeping my mind busy again and again.

Well I guess we'll see if these things will ever get clearer at all *sigh*.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

the meds found in mj's bed room and they were listed in the affidavit were all prescribed in his name , no aliases . again the aliases mj used were different forms of his own name and Omar Arnolds , but inside the files he was mentioned as the patient . Nothing illegal at all . keep that in your minds please , when talking about mj's so called addcition.

Very good point.

 

[MJJ2theMAX]

I think other than Michael being Exhausted after hours and hours of rehearsal almost every day for weeks and anxious about the tour reaction. I personally think from what I've heard and what most of us saw in the Videos of lovely Michael out and about, he seemed happy and full of life, and with his beautiful children.

That's my opinion

i wish that were true

i highly doubt anyone who'd been on propofol for SIX WEEKS could think straight. thats not a proper sleep. thats induced unconciousness

MJ was loosing alot of weigh aswell

I oersonally cant tell from photos of him.. he just looks like regular skinny MJ to me.. But the fans close to him saw it

 

[elusive moonwalker]

highly doubt anyone who'd been on propofol for SIX WEEKS

rembmer though this is coming from murray. may be true but frankly can anyone believe a word this man has said at this stage.hes lied at every corner.

 

[gentlecharm]

i'm not sure if this has been mentioned but when the doctor was resusciatating mike (trying to start his heart) he wasn't doing it on a hard surface but on the bed which is soft. Anyone knowing first aid knows you need a hard surface. This doctor to me is doggy and i think maybe it was planned.

You are right!

 

[elusive moonwalker]

mj had been dead for hours thats why .he acted like hed just found him but was doing it on the bed cause he knew it didnt make any difference anyway

 

[MJJ2theMAX]

rembmer though this is coming from murray. may be true but frankly can anyone believe a word this man has said at this stage.hes lied at every corner.

yeh that is very true

it would explain MJs "out of it" behaviour and weight loss in June.. but then so could stress and other drugs...

but would he lie about the six weeks thing? it sounds pretty bad on him... hmmmm who the hell knows

mj had been dead for hours thats why .he acted like hed just found him but was doing it on the bed cause he knew it didnt make any difference anyway

yep

 

[elusive moonwalker]

ut would he lie about the six weeks thing? it sounds pretty bad on him... hmmmm who the hell knows

the guys incriminated himself so much with what he and his lawyer have told police over the last 2 months i wouldnt put anything past him lo.mj seemed out of it when leaving kliens if he was been put under for treatements there then thats a reason. i maybe be wrong but i havnt really heard any other reports of him being out of it except at those time which is when fans so him the most. except for seeing him arriving at rehearsals

 

[Angel Cake]

ok look, he didnt have breakfast with his kids like he normally did. now if he was awake at that time, he would've been w/ his kids. he wasn't awake. he was already dead.

Yup yes siree, been saying that for weeks

 

[Angel Cake]

Here's the problem -- when paramedics arrived the room was sweltering. So Jackson's body temperature could register in the 90 degree range, even if he were dead for a long time. But we're told paramedics did not get a read on his body temp because they were busy performing CPR.

I read somewhere that you can work out time of death by taking the temperature of the body and the temperature of the room, so you can work it out based on how the body cools/warms against the room temp. Why didn't they take the temps if they thought he was already dead? :doh: Why would the paramedics continue CPR if they thought Michael had been dead for an hour, was Murray forcing them to? And I also read that CPR alone doesn't usually work to bring people back to life (sorry if stating the obvious), it just keeps your organs and brain alive till they bring in them electric pad things they put on your chest - don't know the name, So why have paramedics do more CPR and not try that? Unless that's what they were doing and it has just be umbrella'd as 'CPR'.

 

[Angel Cake]

Too right, his chef said he had a routine of making sure he had lunch with his children at 12.30 everyday which he never missed no matter what, so why would he be demanding propofol at 10.40 when he usually had his breakfast at between 10 and 10.30.

And the chef said he didn't have breakfast that day!

 

[Angel Cake]

After the trial, I felt like an expert in American laws. After this, we'll all be experts in meds.

You always learn something with Michael :doh: Sadly, because of all the weird reasons :doh:

That's so true!! When I was sitting reading papers about extended CPR and sh1t about preserving bodies, rigor mortis, I was thinking that.

My American law is rusty now, but I still have several hefty files full of info on it.

 

[Beleuza Brazil]

This doctor is crazy!

 

[MJJ2theMAX]

the guys incriminated himself so much with what he and his lawyer have told police over the last 2 months i wouldnt put anything past him lo.mj seemed out of it when leaving kliens if he was been put under for treatements there then thats a reason. i maybe be wrong but i havnt really heard any other reports of him being out of it except at those time which is when fans so him the most. except for seeing him arriving at rehearsals

youre right abotu the self incrimintation.. who the hell can believe a word this guy spouts

"out of it" may have been the wrong words.. weak/ fragile may have been better

i kno Karen said he was "sickly" in rehearsals

altho reliable fans did say when MJ was knocked practically to the ground by paps outside Kliens office, and had to grab the back wheel of the car.. he didnt remember it the next day... what the bloody hell was going on inside kliens office?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

altho reliable fans did say when MJ was knocked practically to the ground by paps outside Kliens office, and had to grab the back wheel of the car.. he didnt remember it the next day... what the bloody hell was going on inside kliens office?

yeah i remember hearing that.all i can guess is he was putting mj under and thats why he was as he was when he left.