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JUST IN: Michael Jackson died of lethal levels of propofol, court documents show

but MJ has already paid the price... yeah he is partly to blame...

but if AEG etc hadnt shoehorned him into 50 shows he didnt want to do, he wouldnt need strong "sleeping" med.. dont you find all the links between colony capital, NOI, sony, AEG. slightly unsettling. i dont think MJ was murdered.. but i think the shady people surrounding him started a train hurtling down a mountain.. MJ wsnt well enough for 3 shows, let alone 50 (judging on what fans saw)...

when Baraak met him he said MJ was "in a wheelchair and really frail" .. and then he took the credit for setting MJ up for 50 dates at the o2??? what.. so he miraculously recovered? is he taking the credit too for performing miracles?

dileo, ortega.. they all watched as MJ become frail and unwell... he was crying to fans for help.. i'm sorry but these people have ALOT to answer for

theres so much i could write about this.. but i have to go out now

im prepared to cast the net much wider
 
I agree in some ways...I'm not sure why it happened. When I heard that the original lineup of shows was increased to 50 shows, I told my wife immediately that I think he's going to kill himself.

I don't think there was a conspiracy, per se, but as you said and I agree, that it started a train hurtling down a mountain. And actually, I don't think it started with AEG...it started with the lawsuits...way further back. It's sad...and unbearable to think that Mike couldn't have seen it coming. Or that noone could intervene on his behalf...and that's what makes it harder for people that care about him.

Espescially for the undying fans and people in places like this community that would give anything to have him back...knowing that they couldn't help him. I think that's why people torment themselves so with all of this stuff.

Also...I do want to add one thing. In a way, we all helped to drive this thing forward...we love Michael so much, we made those shows sell out in no-time...not caring for whether or not he could do it. We just wanted to see him, to have a glimpse. And as such...we contributed to the madness that surrounded him. Michael just wanted to please us...and to be back on top. We wanted to bring him there and show the world he was. It's crazy.

Hard to hear? But true...
 
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ArchangelX said:
I agree in some ways...I'm not sure why it happened. When I heard that the original lineup of shows was increased to 50 shows, I told my wife immediately that I think he's going to kill himself.


Also...I do want to add one thing. In a way, we all helped to drive this thing forward...we love Michael so much, we made those shows sell out in no-time...not caring for whether or not he could do it. We just wanted to see him, to have a glimpse. And as such...we contributed to the madness that surrounded him. Michael just wanted to please us...and to be back on top. We wanted to bring him there and show the world he was. It's crazy.

Hard to hear? But true...
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i agree about the first point.. i thought a similar thing.. well along those lines.. i just thought it sounded crazy

but i think its totally wrong to say we contributed.. MJ was the greatest performer of all time.. anyones gonna want tickets to see him. BUT.. if ANY of us fans had ANY IDEA about his physical state.. theres just NO WAY we would have wanted a part in this....

part of me thought.. maybe all that wheelchair stuff was MJs idea of "razle dazzle" and he was fit as a fiddle.. wanting to perform...

this is shown by the fans in LA.. who were invited into rehearsals.. if all they cared about was getting close to MJ.. why start emailing people involved in the show?? they started writing letters to MJ saying he should cancel

this could have seriously pissed him off

but they did it cos they cared about him more than they cared about the shows.. or even more than they cared about getting close to him
 
Oh no...I don't mean that we contributed to it knowingly. I mean that it's so freakin' complicated, that in a small way, those 50 concerts are what put him in over the edge. When they sold out...I mean...damn...do you know how much unbelievable pressure was probably placed on Mike?

Regardless of whether or not anyone wanted him to cancel, the shows still sold out...and there wasn't much we could do about it, was there?
 
I don't believe the story they used propofol for 6 weeks every night.do you imagine how painfull would be to have an IV in your arm every night?Michael would have bruises all over and the ability to move and dance would have to suffer..come on!
 
ArchangelX said:
Oh no...I don't mean that we contributed to it knowingly. I mean that it's so freakin' complicated, that in a small way, those 50 concerts are what put him in over the edge. When they sold out...I mean...damn...do you know how much unbelievable pressure was probably placed on Mike?

Regardless of whether or not anyone wanted him to cancel, the shows still sold out...and there wasn't much we could do about it, was there?
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well performing is his job.. its his career. 50 shows at his peak would have been pressure, but in a good way

50 shows this year.. was impossible for him. it was more than pressure. i dont think anyone connected to the shows realistically thought he would manage more than a few. they were just looking the other way and praying

this thing with MJs health (and maybe mental health too) deteriorating.. is that it happened behind closed doors, so to speak... the people that saw it were the AEG people (and fans)..

when britney lost control, she was on ths streets crying everynight. if her family hadnt have stepped in people wouldnt have been saying "it was her fault, shes an adult".. people would have blamed those around her for not helping, when she couldnt help herself

so the same was happening to MJ.. but noone helped.. cos noone around him with any power cared enough... thats the tragic thing. if his mum had seen him in june i'm sure the outcome would have been different.. but those that actually cared prob werent allowed anywhere near

its much more complicated than just blaming MJ
 
AMEN to everything you said.

From what I understand, the 50 concerts were to be spread out way into the next year. 2 concerts a week, plus, no travel. I really believe he was more than capable of pulling it through.

Remember, Michael was about trailblazing and doing what no one has done before. He broke records when 50 concerts were sold out in minutes! And no, I don't believe for 1 minute he wanted to back out from them at all. Michael is all about the challenge of excelling and pushing the bar higher than anyone before him.

Was he nervous? Sure. Did he have his health issues? Yes. Was he healthy enough to perform? Yes, if Dr. Murray didn't poison him every night for Michael's last six weeks of his life (as I speculate).

And I'm still convinced that Dr. Murray was hired to kill him. Murray was just a hit man - poisoning Michael every day to make it look like Michael died because he was a junkie. FALSE.

Michael was killed - and I truly believe he was READY to make more history with TII.

____________________________________________________________


MJJ2theMAX said:
well performing is his job.. its his career. 50 shows at his peak would have been pressure, but in a good way

50 shows this year.. was impossible for him. it was more than pressure. i dont think anyone connected to the shows realistically thought he would manage more than a few. they were just looking the other way and praying

this thing with MJs health (and maybe mental health too) deteriorating.. is that it happened behind closed doors, so to speak... the people that saw it were the AEG people (and fans)..

when britney lost control, she was on ths streets crying everynight. if her family hadnt have stepped in people wouldnt have been saying "it was her fault, shes an adult".. people would have blamed those around her for not helping, when she couldnt help herself

so the same was happening to MJ.. but noone helped.. cos noone around him with any power cared enough... thats the tragic thing. if his mum had seen him in june i'm sure the outcome would have been different.. but those that actually cared prob werent allowed anywhere near

its much more complicated than just blaming MJ
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shimar said:
Was he healthy enough to perform? Yes, if Dr. Murray didn't poison him every night for Michael's last six weeks of his life (as I speculate).

And I'm still convinced that Dr. Murray was hired to kill him. Murray was just a hit man - poisoning Michael every day to make it look like Michael died because he was a junkie. FALSE.
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I sense, sadly, that this was true. Having an IV every night with a general anesthetic (if that's even true. . . ) for six WEEKS, just has to take an incredible toll on body and mind. That is simply unheard of, even in a hospital setting!!!!!!
 
who knows i read u dont get side effects from diprivan and we a have to remember this is murrays words it cannot be taken as fact
 
shimar said:
AMEN to everything you said.

From what I understand, the 50 concerts were to be spread out way into the next year. 2 concerts a week, plus, no travel. I really believe he was more than capable of pulling it through.

Remember, Michael was about trailblazing and doing what no one has done before. He broke records when 50 concerts were sold out in minutes! And no, I don't believe for 1 minute he wanted to back out from them at all. Michael is all about the challenge of excelling and pushing the bar higher than anyone before him.

Was he nervous? Sure. Did he have his health issues? Yes. Was he healthy enough to perform? Yes, if Dr. Murray didn't poison him every night for Michael's last six weeks of his life (as I speculate).

And I'm still convinced that Dr. Murray was hired to kill him. Murray was just a hit man - poisoning Michael every day to make it look like Michael died because he was a junkie. FALSE.

Michael was killed - and I truly believe he was READY to make more history with TII.

____________________________________________________________
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I agree with pretty much all you said, apart from, I still don't think Michael was deliberately killed, until I hear some conclusive evidence.

I do agree about the fact that Michael was perfectly fine to do all the This Is It concerts.

And I really think it's ridiculously unfair and silly to doubt whether Michael could have done those Concerts. It's Michael Jackson!!!!! He's been doing it since he was 5 he is a Perfectionist and loves to break records, michael knew exactly what he was doing :)

Just a shame Michael is where he is now:cry::weeping:
 
82Thriller84 said:
And I really think it's ridiculously unfair and silly to doubt whether Michael could have done those Concerts. It's Michael Jackson!!!!! He's been doing it since he was 5 he is a Perfectionist and loves to break records, michael knew exactly what he was doing :)

Just a shame Michael is where he is now:cry::weeping:
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i dont think this is correct

you cant just justify things by saying "hes michael jackson", so..? he's still a human being

hes been through the trial... hes got a catalogue of medical conditions... theres absolutely no way he should have been doing these shows, but his people were obviously telling him he had to..colony, neverland, jermaine (?), AEG.. all in cohoots together forcing this deal through.. no thought of MJ as a real person... its SICK :no:
 
look, based on what murray said...IF he gave mj the 25Ml of prop, and waited 'ten' minutes...mj would've already been awake by the time 10 mins had elapsed. that's not a dosage enough to keep him asleep. and if it was used to aid him to sleep, along w/ other drugs, it would've interrupted the other drugs by waking mj.

he's a moron. by that statement alone, it shows how little he knew about administering propofol
 
ArchangelX said:
Oh no...I don't mean that we contributed to it knowingly. I mean that it's so freakin' complicated, that in a small way, those 50 concerts are what put him in over the edge. When they sold out...I mean...damn...do you know how much unbelievable pressure was probably placed on Mike?

Regardless of whether or not anyone wanted him to cancel, the shows still sold out...and there wasn't much we could do about it, was there?
Click to expand...

did you see the faces of some of those fans at the O2 press conference? I am not blaming them one iota for their enormous excitement. I am also not going to blame Michael for wanting to live up to THAT. oh my god. if I was he, and I saw that in front of me, all that love, all that need, all that expectation -- I would move mountains to deliver. I saw him when he stepped back a bit from the microphone and put both his hands on his chest and inhaled... I could tell he felt the enormous connection he has always felt to us.

but nothing, NOTHING was more important than his health and well-being. no one thinks that it could just all end in one second. I have thought about it often in these past few months. why not a scare? why not just a heart attack (not to demean those!)? why not a simple collapse out of which he would realize that -- no, I can't do this right now.

no. he wasn't... we weren't... given any chances.

in the end, yes, he was responsible for his own welfare and his children's future. but Dr. Murray and the rest of the people overseeing his progress had a responsibility as well. this may not have been murder, but it WAS willful neglect of a man's state of health and his best interests by a bunch of people who had dollar signs clouding their overall vision.

for that I will never forgive them.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
who knows i read u dont get side effects from diprivan and we a have to remember this is murrays words it cannot be taken as fact
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yeah, but also the problem is that the numbers don't add up. 50 mgs of diprivan/propofol every night is not enough to knock out a grown man for more than 30 minutes from what I know. there's some sort of confusion about it maybe being the infusion rate. there are some nurses on this board, maybe they can clear up the discrepancy.
 
30 minutes ? are you joking ? not even two minutes according to experts . if indeed that was the dosage mj did not get any sleep using propofol those nights , and certainly 25 milligrams that last night would not have done anything to mj .
 
and yes propofol has absolutely no side effects , according to all experts it does wonders when it is administred appropriately .
 
Oceangirl said:
and yes propofol has absolutely no side effects , according to all experts it does wonders when it is administred appropriately .
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i think when they say "no side effects" it means it doesnt leave you groggy.. but from what ive read.. if youre using it to induce fake "sleep".. it would have massive side effects.. cos thats 6 weeks with no proper rest

but who can beleive a word that comes out of murrays mouth
 
today in my news paper i found this story about the what happen to MJ

here is story

you can click on it to read it better
jacksonkey.jpg
 
The problem with propfol (one of many) is that even if it leaves you unconcious, it does not give you a real rest. To do that you need to get the normal pattern of sleep, where you go in to a "deep" rest. If Michael had used this every night for six weeks, he would have experienced side effects, due to his body not getting the rehabilitating effect real sleep has on the body and mind. The only "benefit" would be the lack of side effects that you normally get from pills that are used to induce sleep.
 
What kind of "Doctor" is this?? It's kind of common sense not to mix so many doses of drugs together. But what really saddens me is that the media is making it look like this was all Michael's fault. Yes it is true that he did have addiction problems, but that means he was SICK. How can you blame a sick person who can't help themselves. The fact is that he was in the care of a doctor(what seemed to be) who was supposed to take care of him and keep him ALIVE(Do no harm). MURRAY ADMINISTERED THE DRUGS THAT KILLED HIM, NOT MICHAEL!!! It was Murray's responsibility to monitor him and be aware of the doses that had been given.
I love you Michael
 
Oceangirl said:
30 minutes ? are you joking ? not even two minutes according to experts . if indeed that was the dosage mj did not get any sleep using propofol those nights , and certainly 25 milligrams that last night would not have done anything to mj .
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I wasn't joking, but I wasn't professing to be an "expert" on the matter, either. it makes sense that if 25mgs does a job for five (or whatever) mins, then 50 should do more, no?

but my basic point was, it's probably an infusion rate anyway, so the IV drip would do the job for the night.
 
50 is not even enough to put him to sleep for 8 hrs...u need around 350-400 mL i believe for someone of mj's height and weight.

so to only give him 25 means that for the ten minutes he said he was observing him, mj would've already woken up. he's a moron.

and note, they say LETHAL amounts of propofol in his system. so he didn't give him 25 like he said.
 
is it possible that the amount of propofol was used just to induce sleep (since he couldn't fall asleep on his own)...once asleep perhaps there was no need for the drug as he could remain sleeping naturally. I have no idea if that's possible but it's just an idea.
 
Goodbye Michael said:
is it possible that the amount of propofol was used just to induce sleep (since he couldn't fall asleep on his own)...once asleep perhaps there was no need for the drug as he could remain sleeping naturally. I have no idea if that's possible but it's just an idea.
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I'm no doctor, but then niethers Conrad Murderer. But, I think you made a good piont, whether that would actually work or not that's another matter.

That being said, it still wouldn't take away from Murray what else he did/gave to Michael.

Why don't they just arrest him!!:mat:
 
ug. 26, 2009

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/26/...in5266204.shtml

Cops: Doc on Phone While MJ Not Breathing
After Dr. Conrad Murray Found Jackson Unconscious, He Called Office, Stayed on Phone for Half Hour, Police Say
Video link:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=526...ated;photovideo

(CBS) More details about what happened in the final hours of Michael Jackson's life are surfacing, especially what occurred during the critical 81 minute gap between when Los Angeles police say his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, found Jackson not breathing to when he finally called 911.

Police say that, after Murray found Jackson unconscious, he called his office and stayed on the phone for a full half-hour, "Early Show" national correspondent Hattie Kauffman reported on the broadcast Wednesday.

A police affadavit says Murray found Jackson not breathing at 11 a.m. the day the singer died. But the 911 call wasn't made until 12:21 p.m. And now, cell phone records show Murray made 47 minutes worth of other calls.

At 11:18 a.m., Murray made a 32-minute call to his office in Las Vegas. At 11:49 a.m., he called another Las Vegas phone number for three minutes. And at 11:51 a.m., he called Houston for 11 minutes. Then at 12:12 p.m., he called a Jackson associate for one minute.

Kauffman reported the police affidavit shows these calls happened while Jackson was unconscious in his bed and Murray was performing CPR.

Legal experts say that, if Murray is charged with a crime, it might not just be just for administering dangerous drugs, but also for not reacting quickly enough to a dying patient.

CBS News legal analyst Lisa Bloom said, "I think any reasonable person would expect Dr. Murray to administer CPR and call 911 immediately. ... This is proof of reckless conduct. That's exactly what law enforcement needs for a manslaughter charge."

Still, Las Vegas defense attorney Robert Langford cautions,there could be an explanation for the long phone call. Langford said, "Was he talking to another physician? Trying to find out if there was some other drug he could adminster to revive him? I mean we don't know. ... It's really premature to say that that shows some criminal intent."

Kauffman reported Murray's Las Vegas office has been closed for some time recently and Murray himself remains in his home, keeping a low profile.

© MMIX, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
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