JUST IN: Michael Jackson died of lethal levels of propofol, court documents show

[emmah24]

I read somewhere that you can work out time of death by taking the temperature of the body and the temperature of the room, so you can work it out based on how the body cools/warms against the room temp. Why didn't they take the temps if they thought he was already dead? :doh: Why would the paramedics continue CPR if they thought Michael had been dead for an hour, was Murray forcing them to? And I also read that CPR alone doesn't usually work to bring people back to life (sorry if stating the obvious), it just keeps your organs and brain alive till they bring in them electric pad things they put on your chest - don't know the name, So why have paramedics do more CPR and not try that? Unless that's what they were doing and it has just be umbrella'd as 'CPR'.

Its been said that the medics wanted to pronounce Michael dead when they arrived but Murray being the personal physician is the one who calls time of death, not the paramedics. He wouldnt let them.

I think what the medics witnessed will be extremely important. I hope they have been interviewed thoroughly by the LAPD.

 

[mjdove]

JACKSON NURSE DENIES ADMINISTERING PROPOFOL

A nurse who aided MICHAEL JACKSON before his tragic death has denied she administered a "cocktail" of powerful anaesthetic Propofol to the pop legend.
On Monday (24Aug09) it was confirmed Jackson had lethal levels of the drug in his body when he died, after an affidavit was unsealed in Houston, Texas.
Jackson's personal physician Dr. Conrad Murray allegedly told police he had been treating Jackson for insomnia for six weeks before the singer's death, giving him 50 milligrams of Propofol every night using an intravenous line. He claimed he had tried to wean his famous patient off the drug by lowering the dosage and mixing it with other sedatives.
According to the affidavit, Murray told officials he believed Jackson's former nurse Cherilyn Lee also gave the legend a Propofol "cocktail".
However, Lee has hit back at the allegations, insisting she gave Jackson a "nutritional IV" of "basically vitamin C" and had never administered Propofol, also known as Diprivan, to Jackson. She also claims there were "no injection marks" on his body when she last saw him in April (09), reports TMZ.com.
Murray has rejected recent reports the Los Angeles Coroner will rule Jackson's death a homicide and insisted through his lawyer that integral parts of the affidavit are incorrect - including claims the medic left the star alone while he made phone calls on the night Jackson died.

26 August 2009 20:54

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/story/jackson-nurse-denies-administering-propofol_1114065

 

[sunnyday81]

Drug amounts in Michael Jackson death probe don't add up, medical experts say

August 26, 2009 | 1:12 pm


If Michael Jackson died from lethal levels of the powerful anesthetic propofol, then his personal physician, Dr. Conrad Murray, would have had to inject much more of the drug than he reportedly told police, medical experts said.
That opinion is based on court records unsealed in Houston on Monday in which Los Angeles police detectives recount Murray's statement, taken in a three-hour interview two days after the pop star's death.
According to the records, Murray told them that he had been giving Jackson 50 milligrams of propofol each night over a six-week period. Murray told police that he had been trying to wean Jackson off the powerful anesthetic and, on the night of his death, gave him a combination of other sedatives -- until finally succumbing to Jackson's repeated demands for propofol.
According to the documents, Murray then gave Jackson 25 milligrams of propofol. But those amounts -- 25 and 50 milligrams -- are far below the dosage required to anesthesize someone and keep them asleep, several experts said.
"It doesn't make any sense," said Dr. John Dombrowski, a member of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. "I cannot believe that was the number that was given. Such a small amount won't tip anyone over in terms of respiratory depression. ... If that's what his testimony is, I don't believe it."

What's more likely, Dombrowski said, is that the numbers in the documents are somehow in error. Murray might not have provided an infusion rate -- such as 25 milligrams every few minutes -- or police did not understand the medical terminology. If the amount of propofol is higher, combined with the other medications, Dombrowski said, then "you are going to start to see an overdose."
The preliminary toxicology reports cited in the court records said that "lethal levels" of propofol were found in Jackson's blood, a finding that sources familiar with the investigation maintain was a significant factor in the pop star's death.
Murray has maintained that he believes nothing he administered Jackson should have led to his death and said through his attorney that he answered the questions posed by detectives truthfully. In a YouTube video posted recently, Murray thanked his supporters and said, "I have done all I could do. I told the truth, and I have faith the truth will prevail."
-- Kimi Yoshino


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...th-probe-dont-add-up-medical-experts-say.html

 

[_zu_]

Here's video of the interview with the nurse:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=33cb6e64-a43f-4670-a922-c8b75f97f0f9

and here's short article to that:

http://www.tmz.com/videos?autoplay=true&mediaKey=33cb6e64-a43f-4670-a922-c8b75f97f0f9

 

[sunnyday81]

EXCLUSIVE: Witnesses Not Interviewed Because Only 3 LAPD Detectives Assigned to Jackson Case, Says Source


One reason why Los Angeles police have yet to interview Michael Jackson's security guard and chief of staff is because only three detectives are assigned to the case, a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.
"There are only three detectives from LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division assigned to the case," the source said. "This is one of the reasons the investigation is still ongoing at this point."
Alberto Alvarez, who made the 911 call the day Michael died, has not been interviewed by police. Alvarez, a security officer, could be crucial to establishing the time line of events as police focus on Dr. Conrad Murray.
Murray administered various drugs and propofol to Jackson, who stopped breathing when the doctor left the room. Officials say Jackson died from a propofol overdose.
Michael Amir, described as the King of Pop's chief of staff, also has not been interviewed by police.
Alvarez and Amir are both represented by attorney Carl Douglas, who told the Los Angeles Times: "We arranged two separate occasions for LAPD investigators to meet with my clients. My clients came early wearing suits and ties. The first meeting was canceled and rescheduled. The second meeting I had to call them to inquire about the [detectives'] absence."
Establishing a solid timeline of events is crucial if police are going to make a case against Murray, whose attorneys are already disputing the authorities' version of when events happened.
Douglas did not return calls for comment.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...iewed-because-only-3-lapd-detectives-assigned

 

[meena76]

I'll tell you why , they were injected AFTER his death to make it look like mj overdosed himself . that's why

Exactly.

 

[meena76]

Exactly, who did he call? Why call the assistant at all? Why not call 911 on his cellphone... why did he make someone else make the 911 call and why did not sign the death certificate...

Exactly what can the assistant do, D*mn you suppose to be the doctor( you f*ckin idiot).

Why do I come to this thread, I swear it's get's me so upset.

Sorry!!

 

[Jadentheman]

I wonder if the police got a hold of the phone calls and won't release them. Someone should make a thread about the phone calls

 

[CatherineNZ]

EXCLUSIVE: Witnesses Not Interviewed Because Only 3 LAPD Detectives Assigned to Jackson Case, Says Source

:bugeyed:bugeyed:bugeyed
why it doesnt surprise me :evil:

there were times when they sent 70 detectives to his house to put him in jail.

nobody cares about Michael. nobody

well i think people that have ordered this murder will live happily ever after

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

I read somewhere that you can work out time of death by taking the temperature of the body and the temperature of the room, so you can work it out based on how the body cools/warms against the room temp. Why didn't they take the temps if they thought he was already dead? :doh: Why would the paramedics continue CPR if they thought Michael had been dead for an hour, was Murray forcing them to? And I also read that CPR alone doesn't usually work to bring people back to life (sorry if stating the obvious), it just keeps your organs and brain alive till they bring in them electric pad things they put on your chest - don't know the name, So why have paramedics do more CPR and not try that? Unless that's what they were doing and it has just be umbrella'd as 'CPR'.

Its been said that the medics wanted to pronounce Michael dead when they arrived but Murray being the personal physician is the one who calls time of death, not the paramedics. He wouldnt let them.

I think what the medics witnessed will be extremely important. I hope they have been interviewed thoroughly by the LAPD.

I too hope they have been thoroughly interviewed by the police. When one begins CPR by themselves they are supposed to continue until paramedics arrive. You cannot stop in the middle of a cycle. As far as I remember, you can stop when you feel a pulse. The point of CPR is to get the heart beating again. EDIT: Previous sentence is incorrect. Point of CPR is to get blood flowing and oxygen to the lungs. Eventually goal in combo w/ AED is to get heart beating again. The AED/Defibrillator machines are used for irregular heart beats. It is to shock the heart.

 

[xthunderx2]

I read somewhere that you can work out time of death by taking the temperature of the body and the temperature of the room, so you can work it out based on how the body cools/warms against the room temp. Why didn't they take the temps if they thought he was already dead? :doh: Why would the paramedics continue CPR if they thought Michael had been dead for an hour, was Murray forcing them to? And I also read that CPR alone doesn't usually work to bring people back to life (sorry if stating the obvious), it just keeps your organs and brain alive till they bring in them electric pad things they put on your chest - don't know the name, So why have paramedics do more CPR and not try that? Unless that's what they were doing and it has just be umbrella'd as 'CPR'.

Well if this is true then that explains why Murray had every fireplace upstairs lit in June....because he wanted to keep the body warm so that the time of death would make sense to the time that he tells everyone he found Michael not breathing. Hmm..Murray thought he was being smart.....Hopefully the coroner does know an approximate time of death I have read that he may not even be able to tell. I read it on this form somewhere in a thread, God this just gets worse and worse. Shaddy police work from the beginning, doctors giving dose after dose of meds and so on and on it goes. Poor Michael.

 

[Goodbye Michael]

I too hope they have been thoroughly interviewed by the police. When one begins CPR by themselves they are supposed to continue until paramedics arrive. You cannot stop in the middle of a cycle. As far as I remember, you can stop when you feel a pulse. The point of CPR is to get the heart beating again. The AED/Defibrillator machines are used for irregular heart beats. It is to shock the heart.

cpr doesnt start the heart. Once the heart has stopped the only thing that can start it is a defib machine. i just did a first aid course and questioned the teacher because to me a doctor should know this. trying to revive someone using cpr is impossible that's why you call for an ambulance first, then start cpr cause the defib needs to be on the way.

also about the "fires being lit" topic.....how did this information come out, i had only ever heard reference to it here but the other day i read it in articlle (tmz) and was wondering where this info originated. thanks all.

 

[indranee]

and of course -- being the world's best cardiologist -- he wouldn't have a defibrillator in the house!

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

EXCLUSIVE: Witnesses Not Interviewed Because Only 3 LAPD Detectives Assigned to Jackson Case, Says Source


One reason why Los Angeles police have yet to interview Michael Jackson's security guard and chief of staff is because only three detectives are assigned to the case, a source close to the situation tells RadarOnline.com.
"There are only three detectives from LAPD's Robbery Homicide Division assigned to the case," the source said. "This is one of the reasons the investigation is still ongoing at this point."
Alberto Alvarez, who made the 911 call the day Michael died, has not been interviewed by police. Alvarez, a security officer, could be crucial to establishing the time line of events as police focus on Dr. Conrad Murray.
Murray administered various drugs and propofol to Jackson, who stopped breathing when the doctor left the room. Officials say Jackson died from a propofol overdose.
Michael Amir, described as the King of Pop's chief of staff, also has not been interviewed by police.
Alvarez and Amir are both represented by attorney Carl Douglas, who told the Los Angeles Times: "We arranged two separate occasions for LAPD investigators to meet with my clients. My clients came early wearing suits and ties. The first meeting was canceled and rescheduled. The second meeting I had to call them to inquire about the [detectives'] absence."
Establishing a solid timeline of events is crucial if police are going to make a case against Murray, whose attorneys are already disputing the authorities' version of when events happened.
Douglas did not return calls for comment.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...iewed-because-only-3-lapd-detectives-assigned

*sigh* Mabye they were looking at the case in a different direction and weren't thinking about murder. Who knows? They need to get it together. Sunnyday, thanks for posting updates.

there were times when they sent 70 detectives to his house to put him in jail.

WTF???!!! I know Sneddon obtained 100 (or more-I can't remember) search warrants against Mike, but damn. 70 detectives to arrest him??? Or are you talking about the number of detectives sent to execute a search warrant? Either way, its digusting. :no:

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

cpr doesnt start the heart. Once the heart has stopped the only thing that can start it is a defib machine. i just did a first aid course and questioned the teacher because to me a doctor should know this. trying to revive someone using cpr is impossible that's why you call for an ambulance first, then start cpr cause the defib needs to be on the way.

also about the "fires being lit" topic.....how did this information come out, i had only ever heard reference to it here but the other day i read it in articlle (tmz) and was wondering where this info originated. thanks all.

I apologize, I've mixed it up. CPR is to get oxygen to the lungs and keep the blood circulating. Man...Dunno what the hell I was typing or thinking...:scratch:My prof. would be pissed at me Still, I remember learning that you can stop CPR once you feel a pulse. Yea you are right about the AED/Defib, but its also used for when the patient has an irregular heart beat.

Dunno where exactly the 'room was sweltering' articles originated...

and of course -- being the world's best cardiologist -- he wouldn't have a defibrillator in the house!

IMO nope. They are becoming more common in non-hospital buildings like malls or courthouse but I've never heard of a doctor carrying a personal one. Some people carry a personal mask to use for CPR though. That's why Murray should have shouted for someone to call 911 immediately (or done it himself), then he would begin CPR.

 

[Daniele]

There are so many things behind Michael's death cause - who, when, how, why...- and each new information or reflexion about it gets this whole thing worse!!!

 

[8701girl]

WTF???!!! I know Sneddon obtained 100 (or more-I can't remember) search warrants against Mike, but damn. 70 detectives to arrest him??? Or are you talking about detectives executing a search warrant. Either way, its digusting. :no:

That totally makes me mad that

 

[Naad]

i am officially confused. i never seen such a damn mess concerned with a death :mello:

 

[Goodbye Michael]

sneddon went overboard and subsequently made a complete fool of himself doing so, it made him appear over zealous which he was indeed. it hurt him in the end.

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

sneddon went overboard and subsequently made a complete fool of himself doing so, it made him appear over zealous which he was indeed. it hurt him in the end.

He was obsessed. He denied the 100 search warrants which is a fact. He even went to Australia trying to get people claim Mike molested them and they told him it never happened. He claimed he never thought or spoke about the 1993 case after it was finished, yet he talked to 10 papers long after 1993. :smilerolleyes:

Nevermind, I see it was 70 officers Sneddon sent to raid the house.

I hope and pray that justice will be done for Mike and his family.

 

[indranee]

I apologize, I've mixed it up. CPR is to get oxygen to the lungs and keep the blood circulating. Man...Dunno what the hell I was typing or thinking...:scratch:My prof. would be pissed at me Still, I remember learning that you can stop CPR once you feel a pulse. Yea you are right about the AED/Defib, but its also used for when the patient has an irregular heart beat.

Dunno where exactly the 'room was sweltering' articles originated...



IMO nope. They are becoming more common in non-hospital buildings like malls or courthouse but I've never heard of a doctor carrying a personal one. Some people carry a personal mask to use for CPR though. That's why Murray should have shouted for someone to call 911 immediately (or done it himself), then he would begin CPR.

you can BUY them for personal use though. and I'm sorry, Murray was using Propofol on Michael for six weeks -- SIX WEEKS!!

he should have bought a defib and kept it with all the other frickin' equipment he had in his closet!!!

okay this is making me angry again! :angry:

 

[MJJ:G.O.A.T]

you can BUY them for personal use though. and I'm sorry, Murray was using Propofol on Michael for six weeks -- SIX WEEKS!!

he should have bought a defib and kept it with all the other frickin' equipment he had in his closet!!!

okay this is making me angry again! :angry:

Ah, ok. I see what you mean. But as far as I remember reading, he didnt have the proper equip. to monitor so I think see what you what you mean: At least he could have taken some precaution.

 

[Soso Deaf]

the affidavits and the info w/ respect to murray's phone calls were from his phone records. even if he says mj was listless at noon, he was still on the phone five past noon. no reason y he did cpr 'alone' in the house before calling for help

 

[xthunderx2]

the affidavits and the info w/ respect to murray's phone calls were from his phone records. even if he says mj was listless at noon, he was still on the phone five past noon. no reason y he did cpr 'alone' in the house before calling for help

correct.....because the crime was already done so he figures why hurry to call for help. He took his time and only when he thought that he would get away with it ......did he run and get help. hhmmm .......cardiologist my ass..,,,stupid mofoe..... Oh yeah I will just do cpr on a soft bed. I wish someone somewhere would tell Murray no matter what country you are from CPR is still done on a hard surface. ......stupid ass

 

[Angel Cake]

He was obsessed. He denied the 100 search warrants which is a fact. He even went to Australia trying to get people claim Mike molested them and they told him it never happened. He claimed he never thought or spoke about the 1993 case after it was finished, yet he talked to 10 papers long after 1993. :smilerolleyes:

Nevermind, I see it was 70 officers Sneddon sent to raid the house.

I hope and pray that justice will be done for Mike and his family.

'After it finished'? What the whole six years worth yeah. The public doesn't know that the case was left open until limitations ran out, they think Michael paid and that was it.

 

[Oceangirl]

I read somewhere that you can work out time of death by taking the temperature of the body and the temperature of the room, so you can work it out based on how the body cools/warms against the room temp. Why didn't they take the temps if they thought he was already dead? :doh: Why would the paramedics continue CPR if they thought Michael had been dead for an hour, was Murray forcing them to? And I also read that CPR alone doesn't usually work to bring people back to life (sorry if stating the obvious), it just keeps your organs and brain alive till they bring in them electric pad things they put on your chest - don't know the name, So why have paramedics do more CPR and not try that? Unless that's what they were doing and it has just be umbrella'd as 'CPR'.

the paramedics said they did try everything under the sun but they knew already he had FAR LONG GONE according to the cheif of the fire department , murray was a doctor , they had to follow his instructions and he decided not to move mj to a hospital immediately , they kept working on him for 42 minutes although they knew he was gone .

 

[artik]

^^ That is so awful
---
There is something I'm trying to get..
Dr Murrey claims that he had lowered the Propofol dose to 25 milligrams and added the sedatives lorazepam and midazolam two days before Michael’s death. The next day he cut off the propofol — and Michael fell asleep with just the two sedatives. I wonder why the same combination didn't work on June 25? I guess he couldn't develop tolerance to the drugs for two days, or maybe I'm wrong? I wonder if something happened during the day. Was Michael's condition different that night? Could he be nervous more than usual? more tired? felt pain? Maybe he thought about something.

They say lethal dose of Propofol was found in Michael blood. In my opinion, the lethal dose is a huge dose. 25mg shouldn't be lethal itself (it probably killed Michael because of other drugs in his system, but it shouldn't be called 'lethal dose'). How could they find such a tiny dose if the drug leaves the blood very quickly? Sounds like they found more. Who could give it to Michael? OMG :no:

Everything is so strange and heartbreaking. What a terrible night. I am not going to defend doctor, but I think he was right trying to wean Michael off the Propofol. He would die if he continued to take it. He didn't feel well for those 6 weeks. But so many sedatives at one night.. Oh my! Poor Michael.

 

[cryingangel]

Only 3 detectives working on the case? Are they bloody mad?!?!?!
Oh wait, rather bloody uncaring and ignorant :doh:

And hey, why would they care? We're only talking about a doctor murdering one of the biggest persons in the world :rolleyes2:

 

[ArchangelX]

First of all let me say that your post TOTALLY pissed me off. secondly it is our conspiracy theory's that help figure out what the hell happened to Michael those final hours. So please if you dont like the theories then dont read the posts.!!!!

I pissed you off? Why? For sharing my opinion? I gave MJ more credit than most of you have given him. Some of you act like he was an innocent child that had to have his hand held. He wasn't and isn't a child...he was a grown, intelligent, human being that didn't need his hand held nor did he need to be coddled. And you disrespect him by treating him like one.

Actually, I've quite enjoyed reading all the conspiracy theories simply because it blows my mind how people can think that they can figure out everything from the media and news nonsense, throw it together like a puzzle, basing it on nothing but lies, misconceptions, half-truths, etc...to the point where you think it's credible. That's simply not possible...that's the problem with conspiracy theories...just like 9-11, and every other conspiracy theory. You twist and shape the facts to fit your version until it makes sense for you.

The simple truth of the matter is that MJ died because he took an overdose of drugs. Even if he trusted the doctor, he still knew that what he was doing was risky. No sensible, coherent adult would let another person inject drugs into them without knowing the risks. Michael was no fool.

I love Michael Jackson. My first name is Michael, my middle initial is J, and I've always felt a strong connection to his beliefs and his views on life ever since I was a kid. I grew up right in the middle of Thriller, and I have been a fan since I was able to be one. I wore out the making of Thriller in my VCR only a few months after it came out. I cried for days after he died, and I was stricken with grief just as well as every other person here.

Just because you think there's a conspiracy, doesn't mean that I'm any less of a fan for NOT thinking there's a conspiracy. And since when was this an official "conspiracy" thread? It's not titled as such...it's a breaking news thread.

Michael was not a god...he was a man. A beautiful, misunderstood man...but a man no less. And men make mistakes. We all do. I deal with addictions all the time...people that I know, people that I don't know, I have had to help them through it. I am not saying that Murray didn't kill him. I think he did and I hate him for it. But to say MJ had to be held down and forced the drugs, or didn't have the ability to say no...I don't need drugs, or not know the possible consquences for using drugs is a fallacy. In one way or another, Michael made the choices that lead him down this path.

MJ was a very, smart...smart man. He knew what he was doing...in those final moments, he might not have know exactly, because he was so drugged up. But before, when he asked for it, he knew. When he pleaded for something to help him sleep...he knew. We all do...Murray was an enabler. Murray is dirt, and from my opinion, should burn in hell for his part in this all.

It's just my opinion that alot of people just can't handle the way he died...they can't believe that someone so important in their lives could make choices that would lead them down this path. Espescially ones that feel like they're so close to them, that they can't live without them. I'm sorry to say...it happens. Every day, families all over the world experience the same heartache and sadness that this community, this family here has had to witness. And they are just as confused and upset as all of us are.

I don't expect many of you to respect or understand my point...but give MJ a bit more credit than you have given him thus far. We all make our beds, and we all must lie in them.

RIP Mike. I miss you.

 

[ArchangelX]

Archangel, I agree MJ may have known of the risks and should have stayed away from it. But I am not so sure he knew how risky this all was. MJ has stayed away from other medications and drugs before because he knew the risks etc. But from all accounts MJ touted this drug as safe!! He thought as long as somebody monitored him he would be safe. Again he trusted someone who failed him.

As a dr. myself I have to admit that Conrad was the responsible party in this case. Conrad and all other docs who did not maintain how unsafe and dangerous it is to administer propofol outside of the hospital, and for insomnia, failed as gate-keepers in the medical community. They are like lax parents.

And no, I don't think this is just a celebrity thing. If you and I had money and desperately needed some meds to sleep, we would go and get something that we think will work for us (especially when you think it is relatively safe).

I find myself getting annoyed with MJ for being so stubborn, but it isn't something unique to him or anybody else. The difference is, someone out there was corrupt enough or renegade enough to do something so risky once the money was right. If all the docs were united in saying no, this wouldn't have happened at all!!

My point is that Michael, as a celebrity and under his special circumstances, did not have the right people in place to act as defense barriers and supporters when he did become weak or needed help...when he was being stubborn. That's something that sometimes comes with celebrity status. He had the ability to do whatever he wanted to, whenever he wanted...and sometimes that is a very, very bad thing.

How many times have we seen this happen, whether through self-medication or prescribed? These filthy, drug-peddling doctors...they manage to help send our most loved and cherished heros down a path of destruction. Just because the celebrities have the money to do it...does not mean that they should.

It's a sad spiral that repeats itself far too often. They should be stopped. Murray should be the precedent...they should use him as an example.