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Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option

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Murrays action are inexcusable no matter who tries to excuse it. Simple as that so any Murray lover can carry on with lame excuses putting the blame on Michael but those were, are and will forever be inexcusable period.
 
What's it going to take? Another death? Another family to lose their loved one before someone see's some sense and takes some action!? Michael Jackson or Joe Bloggs, I dont care - this man should NOT be allowed near medication! This is just so wrong and its an outrage! Im disgusted.
 
Oh goody!

Let's have him kill another person with propofol. It's no big deal, it seems.

I can't believe this. *shakes head*
 
Who in their right mind would want to be put under with propofol by Dr Murray? 'Um, excuse me Dr Death but didn't you kill your last patient when putting him under with propofol. Actually, why are you even here, why aren't you in jail?'
 
This is as simple as this: He has not lost his medical licence, and can treat patients and prescribe medicine. As strange as all this is, its hard to imagine doctors having a ban on prescribing sertain types of medicine for whatever reason.Either he has his licence- or not. I would have prefered not, as I do find it hard to exuse him ( whatever reasons people may present). There is also the very fact that he accepted to use a treatment in a setting and with very limited equipment- for a lot of money. No matter how well you present him as being good natured and wanting to keephis clinic open an help people- that proves his lack of ability to do what is ethically right. And while it can be said that people makes mistakes, and in this case if he had not done it, somone else would have taken the job; it is simply not relevant. He should be judged by his actions. His actions is his responsebility. And the ability to take responsebility is what proves his ethics and morals as a human being and as a practicing doctor. And in my opinion,no public praying in church, or public display that is made to make us feel sorry for him should work. He has clearly shosen money over moral, and over caring for his patients.
And he is due to that not fit to be a doctor, as he in that role has to have the highest standard of ethics and moral due to the fact that he may cause serious harm to his patients. As he has done.
 
I believe the police intend charging him, after 5 months they are still collecting evidence, and going back in time to look at Michael's prescription history, Murrey has already tried to defend himself by saying he was not the only one giving Michael the stuff, in the end it was Murrey who killed him, so that defence is not going to cut it.

But I am shocked that the medical board have not investigated and suspended his licence, for a doctor to do CPR with one hand on a domestic bed, wait at least an hour to get help for a patient who was not breathing, and giving a dangerous drug without monitoring has to cast serious doubts over his competence, personally I don't think it was incompetence, I think it was murder.
 
I've lost ALL hope surrounding this.. No way is Murray going to be charged. I just can't see it. No way.. :( Will justice EVER be served?
 
djbaby said:
I feel you on this - this is really sad. I can't believe that he is practicing and has full rights - it is soo crazy. BUT please see - there is alot of love in the world and you do have hope. Find someone to talk to and it will help you feel better.
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Thank you, though is hard, we have first lost Michael, and now, is like a joke, this is like a bad joke


callmerose said:
In the end, I don't think people can get away with things like this. Remeber Evan Chandler. He shot himself in the head, he died alone estranged from his family. He wanted fame and money, he died with neither. The only thing he was famous for was for screwing over Michael and he was begging money from his son. He died a disgrace. Don't give up, Murray will get his too.
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I know, but Michael had to die first, is just not right, sometimes we seem to forget Michael HAS passed away, no more Michael, i loved this man sooo much, you know, he took him away like...., and to let Murray get away with this it means Michael lived in vain, i just cant believe it

Thank you both for cheering me up, really, thank you, is just nothing will bring Michael back again, at least i wanted some justice, are we going to get it...
 
Re: Dr. Conrad Murray -- Propofol Still An Option

eStyle said:
I really don't understand this...
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Neither do I but I've decided to keep my mouth shut on this other wise I'll probably end up saying something that I'll regret or worse bet me banned.

:huggy: but don't worry darl I'm sure there are others out there that feel EXACTLY the same so please don't think that your alone on this one :better:
 
If he's still allowed to practise, then why shouldn't he be allowed to give out Propofol? Crazy world we live in. I'm still going to wait for the results, then I'll allow myself to be angry.
 
He gave other drugs first and then he gave propofol.
Any doctor should know you can´t mix drugs like that.
Who knows what drugs he is going to mix in the future and other persons might die.
They should have taken his medical licence.
 
MIST said:
He gave other drugs first and then he gave propofol.
Any doctor should know you can´t mix drugs like that.
Who knows what drugs he is going to mix in the future and other persons might die.
They should have taken his medical licence.
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BINGO. That is what I can not get over. When you go into surgery, you are NOT allowed to take no drugs (only drugs that prepare you for surgery which will kill bacteria). Why didn't this idoit know this?
 
Any doctor that is under criminal investigation for a homicide should not be practicing in my honest opinion. Especially if that homicide involves medication. This doctor is under investigation by the DEA and local/state law enforcement. He should not be practicing until an outcome is reached.
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can some american tell me if its the norm for licences not to be suspenend or is its cuase its mj and no one gives a feck and thats why hes still working.or is it to do with the child support issues?
 
elusive moonwalker said:
can some american tell me if its the norm for licences not to be suspenend or is its cuase its mj and no one gives a feck and thats why hes still working.or is it to do with the child support issues?
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I work in the medical field and I can tell you that it depends on what the doctor did specifically that would have his license suspended immediately or his rights to practice taken away. If they saw him as totally negligent they would suspend his license pending investigation and they didn't do that here. It is not up to the police to do that, it is the Board of Medical licensing.

They are apparently now looking into his prescribing history to see if he was giving narcotics to people, which I am seriously doubting they will find only because he is a cardiologist and thats not what they do.

If they found him to be grossly negligent in his practice, they could have taken away his license and I can't imagine his medical practices have not been looked into. This is an isolated incident wherein he was practicing in someones home and not in his office. In his office he would likely be prescribing blood pressure and heart medicines.

He may still lose his license here. I don't think it was illegal to obtain the Propofol. It was not illegal to obtain the other medicines he gave that day. So, as far as that goes, he did nothing illegal there. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So, there are legal issues that come into play here. In the end, he may well lose his license to practice.
 
Beachlover said:
I work in the medical field and I can tell you that it depends on what the doctor did specifically that would have his license suspended immediately or his rights to practice taken away. If they saw him as totally negligent they would suspend his license pending investigation and they didn't do that here. It is not up to the police to do that, it is the Board of Medical licensing.

They are apparently now looking into his prescribing history to see if he was giving narcotics to people, which I am seriously doubting they will find only because he is a cardiologist and thats not what they do.

If they found him to be grossly negligent in his practice, they could have taken away his license and I can't imagine his medical practices have not been looked into. This is an isolated incident wherein he was practicing in someones home and not in his office. In his office he would likely be prescribing blood pressure and heart medicines.

He may still lose his license here. I don't think it was illegal to obtain the Propofol. It was not illegal to obtain the other medicines he gave that day. So, as far as that goes, he did nothing illegal there. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So, there are legal issues that come into play here. In the end, he may well lose his license to practice.
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I have contacted the Texas Medical Board via email to learn what their policy is regarding some of these issues. If a do not get a reply via email, I will call them.
 
This is all a big joke. No wonder people think Michaels death was a hoax because this is like taken out from the Truman show, authorities are messing with our feelings. I think I am becoming immune to this bullshit. I dont even know how to react.
 
MichaelMySoul said:
This is all a big joke. No wonder people think Michaels death was a hoax because this is like taken out from the Truman show, authorities are messing with our feelings. I think I am becoming immune to this bullshit. I dont even know how to react.
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Yes, it has been VERY hard to deal with on many levels. I wish it would just be over and have become impatient also.

As far as the Texas medical board, I think you can look up on line under malpractice.
 
There was also a malpractice lawyer discussing this somewhere regarding the rules for malpractice and what it involves directly.
 
Beachlover said:
I work in the medical field and I can tell you that it depends on what the doctor did specifically that would have his license suspended immediately or his rights to practice taken away. If they saw him as totally negligent they would suspend his license pending investigation and they didn't do that here. It is not up to the police to do that, it is the Board of Medical licensing.

They are apparently now looking into his prescribing history to see if he was giving narcotics to people, which I am seriously doubting they will find only because he is a cardiologist and thats not what they do.

If they found him to be grossly negligent in his practice, they could have taken away his license and I can't imagine his medical practices have not been looked into. This is an isolated incident wherein he was practicing in someones home and not in his office. In his office he would likely be prescribing blood pressure and heart medicines.

He may still lose his license here. I don't think it was illegal to obtain the Propofol. It was not illegal to obtain the other medicines he gave that day. So, as far as that goes, he did nothing illegal there. In this country you are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. So, there are legal issues that come into play here. In the end, he may well lose his license to practice.
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Here are national standard for propofol from a site for gastroenterologists:

"The use of propofol by non-anesthesiologists is off-label. The current package insert notes that for general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, propofol should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure"

http://www.sedationfacts.org/sedation-administration/endoscopic-sedation#mac

These are the regulations specific to California :

"Society of Anesthesiologists
Guideline
(05/08)
MDs,
DOs,
RNs,
PAs
CSA Guidelines for Deep Sedation by Non-Anesthesiologists (5-2008)

Only physicians or dentists who are qualified by education, training and licensure to administer deep sedation should supervise the administration of deep sedation. Non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioners may directly supervise patient monitoring and the administration of sedative, analgesic or anesthetic medications by a supervised sedation professional. Alternatively, they may personally perform these functions, with the proviso that the individual monitoring the patient should be distinct from the individual performing the diagnostic or therapeutic procedure.

The supervised sedation professional who is granted privileges to administer sedative, analgesic or anesthetic drugs under supervision of an anesthesiologist or a non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioner and to monitor patients during deep sedation can be a registered nurse who has graduated from a qualified school of nursing or a physician assistant who has graduated from an accredited physician assistant program. They may only administer sedative, analgesic or anesthetic medications on the order of an anesthesiologist or non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioner "

According to these regs, Murray was not qualified to be giving propofol and was using it in an off label manner and without the required precautions.
 
Re: Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option Update #27

Ramona122003 said:
I was not going to post this, but this has been on my mind for awhile regarding Beachlover.

I think what she is doing regarding Murray is playing devil's advocate. Virtually, she is saying the opposite of what is popular in order to drive a point or to get people see things from a different perspective. Even if you do not agree with such point.

I have been known to play devil's advocate most of the time when discussion certain subjects, but I do not do it on message boards since you cannot hear my tone or see my facial expressions. Since you cannot see these things, my words could come across as trolling or hating, which is why I personally do not it here. However, I do find this a good way for everyone to see things from a complete picture.

Nonetheless, I am in no position to guess her motives so I won't say anything more on the subject.
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Interesting. I've never understood why some think the devil needs "advocacy," though. Isn't that a pretty bad idea, in general? Isn't there enough grief and trouble in the world already?

As far as Murray going back to work to pay his child-support? No. Let him sell his multi-million dollar mansion in Las Vegas, and his expensive car. That would be a start?
 
Re: Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option Update #27

Victoria83 said:
Interesting. I've never understood why some think the devil needs "advocacy," though. Isn't that a pretty bad idea, in general? Isn't there enough grief and trouble in the world already?

As far as Murray going back to work to pay his child-support? No. Let him sell his multi-million dollar mansion in Las Vegas, and his expensive car. That would be a start?
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I agree. A lot of people have had to change their lifestyles in this economy. Why should Murray be any different.
 
I don't know what to feel anymore...it's like the anger has built up so much I can't even tell it's there! That sounds crazy but there you go...
It's like they think what he did is some kind of joke! I'm just gonna keep hoping and praying that justice will be served. This can't carry on like this, it just can't. :no:
 
I work in the medical field and I can tell you that it depends on what the doctor did specifically that would have his license suspended immediately or his rights to practice taken away. If they saw him as totally negligent they would suspend his license pending investigation and they didn't do that here. It is not up to the police to do that, it is the Board of Medical licensing.
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well considering he had a paitent die becase of his negligence u cant get any worse than that interm of being suspended while the investigation goes on. any other country u would be suspended straight away. and considering how lawsuit happy the usa is i cant believe that this is normal or maybe it is frankly nothing surprises me about what goes on the is the US system anymore

They are apparently now looking into his prescribing history to see if he was giving narcotics to people, which I am seriously doubting they will find only because he is a cardiologist and thats not what they do.
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i think theyve been investigating him from the get go over the above so its nothing new
 
I'm just hoping and praying that justice will be served. I do not think that Murray will be nailed on second degree murder but it will be manslaughter. Its so frustrating and I'd be lying if I didn't have moments of doubt about Murray being arrested. But, these things take time and at least it shows the authorities are doing a proper job.
 
Who in their right mind would go to Murray as a patient now?

It sounds absurd to consider that a suspect is allowed to continue to practice but I have zero knowledge on medical cases. Is this considered normal practice?
 
callmerose said:
Here are national standard for propofol from a site for gastroenterologists:

"The use of propofol by non-anesthesiologists is off-label. The current package insert notes that for general anesthesia or monitored anesthesia care (MAC) sedation, propofol should be administered only by persons trained in the administration of general anesthesia and not involved in the conduct of the surgical/diagnostic procedure"

http://www.sedationfacts.org/sedation-administration/endoscopic-sedation#mac

These are the regulations specific to California :

"Society of Anesthesiologists
Guideline
(05/08)
MDs,
DOs,
RNs,
PAs
CSA Guidelines for Deep Sedation by Non-Anesthesiologists (5-2008)

Only physicians or dentists who are qualified by education, training and licensure to administer deep sedation should supervise the administration of deep sedation. Non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioners may directly supervise patient monitoring and the administration of sedative, analgesic or anesthetic medications by a supervised sedation professional. Alternatively, they may personally perform these functions, with the proviso that the individual monitoring the patient should be distinct from the individual performing the diagnostic or therapeutic procedure.

The supervised sedation professional who is granted privileges to administer sedative, analgesic or anesthetic drugs under supervision of an anesthesiologist or a non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioner and to monitor patients during deep sedation can be a registered nurse who has graduated from a qualified school of nursing or a physician assistant who has graduated from an accredited physician assistant program. They may only administer sedative, analgesic or anesthetic medications on the order of an anesthesiologist or non-anesthesiologist sedation practitioner "

According to these regs, Murray was not qualified to be giving propofol and was using it in an off label manner and without the required precautions.
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This is not definitive enough to convict of a crime. They are not specific enough in saying what specific monitoring equipment is needed and the last paragraph states that the sedation professional who is granted privileges to do this can even be a nurse but they must have an order from an anasthesiologist. This isn't specic of just the Propofol, it is specific to doing this while the person is having a procedure.

It would need to come from a standard of reference that all physicians must follow.
 
Beachlover said:
This is not definitive enough to convict of a crime. They are not specific enough in saying what specific monitoring equipment is needed and the last paragraph states that the sedation professional who is granted privileges to do this can even be a nurse but they must have an order from an anasthesiologist. This isn't specic of just the Propofol, it is specific to doing this while the person is having a procedure.

It would need to come from a standard of reference that all physicians must follow.
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Oh, so there is one definitive reference that all physicians must follow that would be upheld in court? What is the standard reference which all physicians must follow?

From what i have found, it seems as though states also have their own regulations and restrictions. Are you saying those would not be upheld in court? If so, why not.
 
callmerose said:
Oh, so there is one definitive reference that all physicians must follow that would be upheld in court? What is the standard reference which all physicians must follow?

From what i have found, it seems as though states also have their own regulations and restrictions. Are you saying those would not be upheld in court? If so, why not.
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Each state has certain rules and regulations for differing medical aspects, but I have found nothing specific to California regarding Propofol administration at this time. This reference you gave was specific to procedures and the use in question is off label use.

The PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) and an official FDA sight with a listing as this one:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/diprivan.html

As it stands now I am not sure what to think of what they are thinking or doing with regards to his license to practice. I expect that to be a moot point because I expect him to be arrested shortly.
 
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