Re: Dr.Conrad Murray-Propofol Still An Option Update #27
sigh. beachlover is defending Murray's mistakes saying he was human, he made mistakes.
however, that's not the lens he/she is using for Mike.
to him/her -- Mike is a "big hollywood star" who "threw 150K at Murray."
it doesn't take a phd in English to read between the lines of those posts. it's as clear as a sunny California day to me that beachlover has a completely different standard by which to judge Murray as opposed to Michael.
I don't know about you guys, but that's what I'm getting out of his/her posts. almost every post is about that. hence, I am questioning his/her motive.
OK, I have been thinking the same thing about Beachlover. SO, since one of the things Michael and I shared was insomnia, I have spent the last half hour (between 2 and 3 am) reading over Beachlovers posts and have consolidated posts that show some sort of opinion one way or the other to Murray or Michael. I have tried to be fair and and not biased with my editing but you are free to check that.
I think it is pretty clear that Beachlover is showing much more compassion and l.o.v.e. to Murray than Michael. So Beachlover, I am not buying your post explaining why you are defending Murray becasue you haven't shown the same compassion to Michael. So, what's up, really?
So here are Beachlovers posts concerning Conrad Murray:
It was not a defense against Murray, but a simple statement meaning that desperate people do desperate things.
I don't know what this man was thinking or the kind of stress he was uinder in his life. I think he thought he was going to make a lot of money and didn't think things through very well past that.
No, he was not paying child support and this was explained by saying that he runs this clinic for poor people and ends up treating patients for free because they have no insurance or means to pay.
He is showing how a person can be backed into a corner and when some big hollywood star comes along offering such a great job, he was influenced by his situation to take it.
Yes, and I am sure he meant it how he said it but it can have many meanings and doesn't incriminate him in any way. I'm not happy to see him out and about but this is the law and he has not yet been charged and if you think about it, he does need money.
He has to 'survive' here. Thats how life is. Sometimes you are put in the position between the rock and the hard place. He is there right now. He isn't arrested. He still has to support himself and he has children to support. It won't happen if he hides away in some room somewhere.
The press has made nothing up on Murray? Are you 100% sure of that?
No one has to forgive this man right now. He isn't asking to be forgiven at all. He isn't asking anything but a fair trial and the 'truth to prevail'. Thats pretty simple.
I don't see how he is a danger to society
I don't think anything this man says or does will satisfy the wolves at his door....and some of the fans act like that.
What stories have you heard from Dr Murray exactly? He hasn't spoken openly about this to anyone but the police right after this whole thing happened. I think the press keeps changing the story but this man has said nothing.
If we fans really should understand one thing and one thing only is that the press paints the story they want us to see. It is not always the truth.
I'm not saying he isn't guilty, but he has not said anything about the case.
Michaels fans seem to be really hurtful and mean at times. I am quite surprised at this since Michaels message was L.O.V.E. and quite frankly, it saddens me that so many of you are quick to hang this man out to dry with a vengeance so quickly.Flame me all you want and I know this guy did everything wrong and I'm sure the police are doing everything they need to do but we can't just change all the rules because its Michael Jackson. Thats not justice. Thats a kangaroo court.
I believe that he is going to show himself to be an upstanding doctor who loved his patients. He is going to show that he works hard to service the poor community. If all of you are right and feel these people read the forums, chat boards, blogs and things of that nature, I am sure they did their research and realize that in order for his image to improve, he needs to be out there improving it.
For all of you who are angry about this, please remember that its only a matter of time before he is arrested
Well, you asked an opinion so here goes.
I really don't like to see things like "He avoided jail by paying enough money" and the other part about charges on him and acquitted but making it appear he was guilty.
Checking on his background is how we know the man had no money and thats likely why he agreed to do this for Michael. Poor isn't a crime.
Here is the thing. I don't want to argue him as a nice guy. Clearly, he screwed up. I just think his life circumstances lead him to this awful place and he took this job with the hopes of fixing his money problems. He was a working cardiologist in a clinic that didn't get paid a lot and he continued to do that for the people who he felt needed him. I am sure he could have gotten a job somewhere else but he wanted to keep this clinic going.
Its easy for all of us to judge but being broke is not a crime.
I understand from my own personal feelings and thoughts that what he did is wrong but is it illegal? How can you prove disregard for human life? That is my point here. And yes, legally there is a difference if someone knows the risks involved.
Example: Before you go for a surgical procedure, or any kind of procedure you must sign a consent saying that you understand the risks and benefits. There are always risks. If you have a complication that was told to you before, and die, then it isn't the doctors fault unless due to negligence.
So, yes, we have proven negligence. So, he loses his license and goes to prison for 4 years and walks away?
I agree but you haven't seen this first hand like I have. They will complain louder and louder. If one doctor says no they will find another. This is just how it is. We don't have to like it or agree with it but thats the bottom line
Don't blame the doctors is what I am saying. Patients often do not want to even think of trying an alternative. I have seen this happen time and time again. What I'm saying is to keep in your mind that it is not always proper to blame the doctor. Keep an open mind.
I have seen how some people react when the doctor says no.
Any physician can administer medication. They are trained to do so. They are supposed to look them up and find out about them beforehand. In any case, using this particular drug, especially in a home setting is way out there but I don't know if that alone was illegal since he can say he did it as an 'off label' treatment for this client. That alone isn't an issue.
However, from what the evidence we have been told...he did not do it practicing a safe standard of care. That part is an issue.
And here are Beachlovers posts concerning Michael:
When the police had enough evidence to convict Michael of a crime, they handcuffed him.
Sure, just as it was Michaels not to ask and not to throw 150,000. a month in some doctors face.
"Originally Posted by MJstarlight
Its not a bad picture. All pics of MJ are beautiful"
Most. We all have our bad days.
AMAs: I am putting my personal feelings for Michael on the side for a moment. Yes, he may have been working on stuff. Yes, he was working hard on something that was never completed. Yes, he should win 'something' or be noticed in some way because he is Michael Jackson; but I don't think taking away from todays talent should have been the way to go. In my heart he is the best and can never be replaced but he isn't here to reap any benefits from this.
AMAs: Thats actually not very fair. She is still entertaining and producing records.
The only reason he hired him was to give him the Propofol.
I never said he was addicted to Propofol as it is not a narcotic. He may have been persistent and wanted that drug because he knew how well it worked but thats not the same thing.
So, he was not referring to just the Propofol but all the medications then. And yes, it was a lot and I thought that immediately and that he had built up a tolerance but its very hard on this forum to say that MJ was obviously taking a lot of medication because everyone says he was not because of his autopsy results (no organ damage) and it seems to upset people here.
I said somewhere that the 10 of Valium with the Versed alone would knock most people out of this world. Even one or the other might do it. We already know that these drugs were not meant for insomnia.
Yet, he had doctors give this to him in Germany and others here have said it was 'by the book' and fine. I never thought this was 'ok' and some one this forum will argue that the poor man needed sleep and was desperate.
I happen to agree that I am sorry he used it and he himself knew it was not wise as many had told him so.
I think if it was not Murray, it would have been another. What just shocks me is that it was not done carefully and I'm surprised MJ allowed that since he knew the drug too.
This is so true. I think many fans mean well and feel they need to uphold his image but don't realize that in doing so they are, in fact, blinded by the truth. Michael WAS a good person and as I have said so many times, he was human. Humans make mistakes sometimes and humans are not perfect.
I never thought he did anything so terrible except there was one time I saw him on a show with his brothers and he was older and he was performing and I thought he actually looked silly but I don't hold that against him. I think it was more a question of feeling like a duck out of water performing with them again.
About TMZ photos of drug raid at Neverland: Well, these are photographs that you can see for yourself, not something they can alter.
Now people are saying they weren't in Michaels name and that must mean they weren't his. Well, we can all form our own opinions and conclusions
I am not saying he is responsible for what Murray did, but I feel as a person he was responsible for allowing this. This does not mean that I think what Murray did was right.
I don't really know how many other physicians Michael asked for this medication. I heard Nurse Lee saying that Michael was asking for a doctor to do this for him at one point, so I have no idea who he asked and who said no before. Only Michael knows who he asked and maybe someone else but they aren't talking.
Sure, but he would have searched further until he found another doctor and that is where MJ is responsible IMHO for his own life. Many of the fans can't understand or don't want to acknowledge that.
See, this is where things become cloudy and sticky. We don't know MJ's part in all of this. We have heard from people who told him not to take this drug. He took it anyway.
Sometimes you can't win. He could have gotten another doctor to do this for him. We just don't know
I think it goes both ways. Many people insist on taking narcotics for pain and refuse to hear otherwise.
There were photographs of the bottles found there and photos of a medicine cabinet in Neverland as well as a room full of oxygen tanks.
The reason the drugs were never brought up at he trial is because they had no reason to mention them as they had nothing to do with the charges.
I think the thing about Propofol is that the addiction is more psychological than anything else. I also think he was warned and he knew what he was going and chose to do it because other methods didn't work for him. Whatever reasons he had, he chose to use this drug in spite of what anyone may have said to him or whatever warnings he heard.
Everyone keeps thinking that because he had no organ damage, he could not possibly have been taking pain or anxiety medication to excess. I don't know if he did or didn't, but just because he had no organ damage doesn't clear him of the other. By the way, the drugs that were found in his system were narcotics
I didn't say he was a bad businessman. I said he wasn't always nice. I look at all the facts and there are times when MJ just didn't pay people. I'm not talking about NOW. I am talking about a lot of issues from the past. Its true. Get over it. If you think you are going to tell me that he didn't have money issues, I can only ask where you are looking cause it isn't reality based.
What I believe constitutes Godlike worship is when fans come here and can't hear anything bad about MJ and insist he didn't take any drugs and never did any wrong. Thats just delusional.
He died of a drug overdose. That says something. He obviously was taking something in order to overdose. Now call me stooopid, but I think thats a potential problem.
