Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

[8701girl]

Girls, you should watch this video, starting from 4.00. The girl who was with Michael in Thriller said that he was flirting with her and she fell in love with him of course But she said he told her he has somebody else very important to him and he cannot cross that line.
Interesting... What girl he was talking about?

Aww so michael had a special lady in his life then..so sweet:wub:

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

Wow, MP, that video pretty much tells it all.

Haha! Yeah and I like how there is always that one voice of reason, like that girl in there who said, "The chances of Justin Bieber falling in love with you are slim to none!" :lol:

Like someone once said in here, it's nice to come in here when it is not always so nice "out there." A place for escapism and imaginative thinking and being creative and being relational with each other and those who join us as well. This thread is not just another thread; it is definitely relational and caring. It is what adds to it and makes it different.

Awww, I'm glad eveyone in here feels L.O.V.E.d.
I love all you guys, too!:wub:

Matter of fact, I'd like to dedicate this song to all of you ...




And ... just for the fun of it ...

 

[Asedora]

edited

 

[Favoritetune]

Hi guys!

One quick comment before I see the other pages here, the look in in the signature is given to Eddie Murphy because Eddie asks "and what is it you're going to do" or something like that.

I think it could be for his litdg because of the one line where he screams remember my baby! It sounds like he's pleading right there imo.

 

[Lisha]

And ... just for the fun of it ...

I super-dee-duper enjoyed this! Wonderful musicallity delivered by all them. And they kept the pace so fun; it never got boring with the same choreography repeated too many times in a row. They kept it movin'. They changed things up. Thanks, MP... that put a smile on my face.

 

[Favoritetune]

Wow Asedora that was a great post!

I'm not sure if you will get many answers on it but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

When MJ was with Debbie about to have Prince weren't the fans happy for him? If they loved him they had to be because he was happy.

I noticed the count on how many people looked at this thread and thought whether they think he was in love with them or someone else, something was obviously drawing people here because the numbers are really high.

I am not sure if those numbers went down since the thread started and June 25th but the fact that it's still here has to say something. Hats off to all the Love In the Dark girls for that! As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

Once again, that was a great post Asedora, blessings to you!

 

[Lisha]

As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

I'm not sure if I feel perfectly inclined at the moment to say I believe in love, but I will give ya a shout out! Hi Favoritetune!

~ btw, once you reach 20 posts then your posts will start appearing right away for you, so you have less than ten posts to go! You're getting there, you, Junior Member, you. Won't be long and you'll be a reg. member here on MJJC... so keep postin'.

...but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?

 

[Asedora]

Wow Asedora that was a great post!

I'm not sure if you will get many answers on it but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

Well, hard to say happy or not happy. It is tough. I was talking about jealosy an the ability to accept it and undrstand that fact without negative emotions, anger, sadness etc. Just to understand if you are not that person that means you are not God's choice becuase God's choice for you is somebody else.

Thank you. :flowers:

 

[AllOverAgain]

I noticed the count on how many people looked at this thread and thought whether they think he was in love with them or someone else, something was obviously drawing people here because the numbers are really high.

As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

Hello :waving:
I usually don't post here but since you asked so nicely I wanted to respond.

Do I believe in love? Yes, very much so. Do I believe that the LITD girl exists/exited? Not too sure, but it would be nice if MJ had had his happy ending.
Why do I come here? Well, I just love this thread and I love all the posts in here. It's really sweet and romatic, and as some of you said a great place for escapism. So keep 'em coming :thumbs_up:

...but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?

Well, I think he loved her but it was a selfish kind of love. In my opinion true love means you love someone for who they are, their personality, their heart, their soul. You love them no matter what, it's unconditional. All you want is for them to be happy and if they are happy with someone else you are happy for them. You love the person and not what you can get out of your love for them.
That doesn't mean you can't be sad about it though, but if you get jealous and act out because they are with someone else I think it's conditional love. You don't have their best interest in mind, you have your own interest in mind. Then you depend on them in a way, want them to give you safety and make you happy - or why else would you be jealous? You feel like you need them, they give you something you haven't learned to give yourself. But you have to learn to rely on yourself first. If you can't be happy on your own you can't be happy with someone else because you will always be in that place where you expect something from them (condition). True love isn't about what you get it's about what you give and imo love has become a trade today. If you give me safety, I give you safety; love me and I love you; make me happy and I will make you happy. I think that's why so many marriages end up in divorce today - people want their needs to be met, it's about getting and not giving.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, feel free to ignore me :blushing:

 

[Sdeidjs]

Wow Asedora that was a great post!

I'm not sure if you will get many answers on it but if someone really loves someone then they will want them to be happy even if that means being with someone else.

When MJ was with Debbie about to have Prince weren't the fans happy for him? If they loved him they had to be because he was happy.

I noticed the count on how many people looked at this thread and thought whether they think he was in love with them or someone else, something was obviously drawing people here because the numbers are really high.

I am not sure if those numbers went down since the thread started and June 25th but the fact that it's still here has to say something. Hats off to all the Love In the Dark girls for that!

As a matter of fact, may I ask if you read this post send a shout out if you're not too shame to say you believe in love?

Once again, that was a great post Asedora, blessings to you!

God Bless~~~

L.o.v.e Always

:angel:

 

[Lisha]

So then, MJ didn't really love Diana Ross when she married someone else, and he didn't really love the litdg when he thought she was with someone else (WII)?

Well, I think he loved her but it was a selfish kind of love. In my opinion true love means you love someone for who they are, their personality, their heart, their soul. You love them no matter what, it's unconditional. All you want is for them to be happy and if they are happy with someone else you are happy for them. You love the person and not what you can get out of your love for them.
That doesn't mean you can't be sad about it though, but if you get jealous and act out because they are with someone else I think it's conditional love. You don't have their best interest in mind, you have your own interest in mind. Then you depend on them in a way, want them to give you safety and make you happy - or why else would you be jealous? You feel like you need them, they give you something you haven't learned to give yourself. But you have to learn to rely on yourself first. If you can't be happy on your own you can't be happy with someone else because you will always be in that place where you expect something from them (condition). True love isn't about what you get it's about what you give and imo love has become a trade today. If you give me safety, I give you safety; love me and I love you; make me happy and I will make you happy. I think that's why so many marriages end up in divorce today - people want their needs to be met, it's about getting and not giving.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, feel free to ignore me :blushing:

So fun to see new people take the time to post in here. Very cool.

Offended? Why? Who would you be offending? Thanks so much for posting your thoughts!

Put on your seat belts everyone, for here comes mine...

I am guessing when you begin by saying "I think he loved her, but it was a selfish kind of love" you are meaning Diana Ross and not addressing the girl in Who Is It, (that we have discussed in here before as maybe being the LITD girl). Did he have a selfish kind of love for her, the LITD girl then, too, for it sure seems he wasn't very happy for her... if she was going to be with someone else. And, pretty mad at her, as well, for not catching onto his "master plan" all worked out in his head about him and her.

Actually, he seemed to have more than one girl in his past who didn't catch into his "master plan". When he decided that Lisa Marie, a girl who on her own had fame and money, and decided she would be a good choice for him, he was "devastated" when one day in 1988 he picked up a magazine and saw a photo of her and her new husband on the cover. He thought that guy was going to be him. Right? Didn't he claim that? Doesn't seem he was too happy for her at the time. Pretty put out actually. I wonder if he was happy immediately after hearing she was going to have a baby after that first year of marriage? Maybe he had adjusted by them and was.

Please don't get the impression I am putting MJ down for him at any point in his life feeling "jealously" or devastation when someone he hoped would be his, ends up being someone elses. I'm not at all. Instead, he is someone I could actually imagine having a friendship with because he was "real" and wouldn't put on an act that he is happy when he wasn't. If I am around someone who is aways loving and talking about unconditional love all the time and is basically, in my opinion, too good to be true...no thanks, not someone I'd want to be a friend with...because no way can I be all that good-to-be-true, for I am made up of all those human kind of stuff that makes me at times quite imperfect to be around. So with MJ, if he feels and acts out jealousy once and awhile, I know he is made of the same stuff as me...he's real. And I could trust him. Anyone who comes off too together, or too good, always saying the right and mature, loving thing all the time...forget it, I can't trust them.

But, more than this, I am one who believes that there is only one who can truly love in a purely unconditional manner; and that is God.

Why? Well, it has already been mentioned, imperfect humans are selfish beings, we are flawed. And if we have selfishness in us, we cannot love anyone perfectly. Only God who is perfect can love someone perfectly. That means when you get two imperfect people together who at best can only love each other imperfectly, you have times when one of them will be selfish and will hurt and disappoint the other one, and vice versa, and then they also get to take turns forgiving each other and showing each other grace.

You say, above, AllOverAgain, if one loves someone unconditionally, they cannot be selfish and and would then, be able to accept another who they love, loving another instead of them, and find a way to be happy for them. Remember God loves us unconditonally. The Bible tells us, also, that God is a jealous God. He loves His children jealously. It's not okay with Him if those He loves turns their back on Him and loves another or anything more than Him. He is not happy for them. He is jealous and wants their Love to return to Him. (Is God selfish?)

It appears that God is an example of someone who loves unconditionally and is still jealous.

Being jealous is also a God-given human emotion. It can eat away at a person, true, so it is not beneficial for that person to give into for long. I believe Michael could have been capable of loving someone very much but his human side, his flesh, could get weak and he could have gone over to feeling jealousy. But MJ was a man who knew the Bible, and I would think would go to God to help him have the right feelings and attitudes, in any situation, that was causing him that jealousy. Perhaps that is exactly what he did when he was not happy about Diana Ross marrying who and when she did, and so perhaps his jealousy did not last long. Maybe he got to the place where he was happy for her. But good for him for being so real and open and "telling" on himself to others that he was nothappy that she did marry and wasn't gioing to pretend he was.

There is no way I would want any fan to be left feeling they were less than, or not a "true fan," or did not really love MJ, because they for a time felt some jealousy because MJ ended up with someone other than them. Nor would I hope to see anyone feeling superior over another fan because they themselves have the "correct," the more "mature," the more "loving," (or is being one who is more able to have unconditional love for him) kind of response to the idea of MJ's finally being with someone that he loves.

Give the jealous fan time. They may very well get there. They can ask God to help them adjust and accept it if it is hard for them. It's okay. God would never condemn them for it, neither should any of us. I certainly don't condemn MJ for ever being selfish, unreasonable, jealous, immature, or any other human kind of feeling that he may have experienced in his lifetime. And I hope he wouldn't condemn me for being any of those things at times either. Because there is NO way I can pretend to be perfectly good. But others can trust me to be real. And I think maybe Michael could be trusted in that way, too. And I'm glad about that!


(I just want to clarify that this post is not a direct response to your post, AllOverAgain, but is a response to what I have observed as a "way of looking at things" in some fans for some time, and a few posts lately have brought it to the surface for me once again. I truly enjoyed your post and thought it very reasonable and appreciated you sharing you thoughts, truly! )

 

[Asedora]

There are different types of love, I think. I do not know what to say about unconditional love but I will try my best.

I understand what it means but I think the example of unconditional love is God’s love. And it similar to how mother loves her child. If a person is ready to die for somebody but still hoping to get something in return like "joining this person" and such, that would NOT be unconditional love in my opinion.

I was thinking about some good examples of unconditional love in literature recently. And the only example crossed my mind is a “Little Mermaid” story written by Andersen which I loved to read when I was a kid and cried my eyes out for that mermaid girl, imagining in my child’s brain that I was her

She could save her life by killing Prince and return to the ocean but she choose to die herself giving life to him and knowing that he was in love with somebody else.

The thing is that when there is unconditional love there is always death involved in my opinion under certain circumstances which makes that love unconditional. It looks like there is always only that choice. Somebody has to die. The greatest historical example of unconditional love is Jesus Christ.

 

[Lisha]

There are different types of love, I think. I do not know what to say about unconditional love but I will try my best.

I understand what it means but I think the example of unconditional love is God’s love. And it similar to how mother loves her child. If a person is ready to die for somebody but still hoping to get something in return like "joining this person" and such, that would NOT be unconditional love in my opinion.

I was thinking about some good examples of unconditional love in literature recently. And the only example crossed my mind is a “Little Mermaid” story written by Andersen which I loved to read when I was a kid and cried my eyes out for that mermaid girl, imagining in my child’s brain that I was her

She could save her life by killing Prince and return to the ocean but she choose to die herself giving life to him and knowing that he was in love with somebody else.

The thing is that when there is unconditional love there is always death involved in my opinion under certain circumstances which makes that love unconditional. It looks like there is always only that choice. Somebody has to die. The greatest historical example of unconditional love is Jesus Christ.

It is so interesting to me that you bring up the (original) story of The Little Mermaid...for I thought of it today as an example of jealousy. For after The Little Mermaid had set her hopes so high, and had even given up her tail and her life in the sea to be with the Prince...he falls in love with another. She is overcome with jealousy, and blinded by her pain, she goes to the wedding bed where the prince and his new bride are laying side by side (yes, his head on one pillow and hers on the other) fast asleep. The Little Mermaid raises a knife to kill his bride....but when she sees the Prince lying so sweetly and so in love with his new wife, she cannot do it. She understands her love for him is deeper than that, she could never take away his happiness and cause him pain. So she drops the knife and runs out to the edge of the Prince's ship. And I will let you all read the story to see how it ends, if you do not know.

She really loved him, she didn't understand how much...because she first was filled with the very natural and real human feeling of jealousy...she had to get past it. And something helped her get past it...her genuine love for him.

Now is it possible that the fans that would have felt jealousy if MJ had married his LITD girl before he died, in time, after seeing him happy and in love, would have come to place of being happy for him? That their jealousy could turn to that kind of benevolant love? Very possibly. Jealousy might have to come first for them though for a little while.

 

[Ashtanga]

There are different types of love, I think. I do not know what to say about unconditional love but I will try my best.

And/Or..........

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. 5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong]. 6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. 7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

 

[Lisha]

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love endures long and is patient and kind; love never is envious nor boils over with jealousy, is not boastful or vainglorious, does not display itself haughtily. 5 It is not conceited (arrogant and inflated with pride); it is not rude (unmannerly) and does not act unbecomingly. Love (God's love in us) does not insist on its own rights or its own way, for it is not self-seeking; it is not touchy or fretful or resentful; it takes no account of the evil done to it [it pays no attention to a suffered wrong]. 6 It does not rejoice at injustice and unrighteousness, but rejoices when right and truth prevail. 7 Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

Yes! That is what we imperfect humans are shooting for! And we need God's help and God's love and God's grace to get us as close as we can to loving in such a way.

 

[Asedora]

She really loved him, she didn't understand how much...because she first was filled with the very natural and real human feeling of jealousy...she had to get past it. And something helped her get past it...her genuine love for him.

.

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. There is NO unconditional love from fans to MJ imo, but ppl talk about all the time for some reason.That was my point.

 

[Asedora]

Yes! That is what we imperfect humans are shooting for! And we need God's help and God's love and God's grace to get us as close as we can to loving in such a way.

Agree. Only God can love in such way.

 

[Lisha]

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. That was my point.

Your point was good! And from there, I went on to illustrate something else... see, we can do both! Team work!:clapping:

An example on how we need God to help us love in the way we should because at times we can't get there on our own, is a true story from the life of Corrie Ten Boom. If you have not read her book, The Hiding Place, I highly recommend it.

She and her father and sister helped to hide jews during the Nazi invasion in Holland. They were discovered and sent to concentration camps; there father to one, and she and her sister to another. While there Corrie struggled greatly with hatred for the women guards there, for they were truly heartless and hateful to not only herself and the others, but to her own obviously frail sister who had a weak constitution who they would beat if she paused when she was supposed to be doing manual labor for them.

The time came when there was a numerical error that placed Corrie's ID number for the camp on a list of those who were being released. And so she was freed. After the war, Corrie began to travel and speak at meetings to share all that God did to help her and her sister while at camp, and how while in there they taught others about God's love for them.

One night at one of these meetings, for afterwards often people in the audience would come up to her to ask her a question or share their own stories, Corrie looked up in time to see a woman walking up to her with an extended hand. She immediately recognized this woman to be one of the guards at the concentration camp that she hated with all her heart. But here she was quickly approaching and so Corrie prayed to God something like, 'Oh God, you know I feel hate for this woman, but would you please replace that hate with love...give me your Love for her. By the time Corrie reached out and grasped that ex-guard's hand, she was filled with such an overwhelming love for the woman, she couldn't believe it. It was real, and it was God's love. And the effect it must have had on that guard, knowing how she had treated Corrie and the others, yet this woman of God was looking at her with love and forgiveness.

It has been a long while since I have read the book so I may not be telling it perfectly. But it is a beautiful real-life example of how we need God's help to give us such a love, a deep and genuine and selfless love as that.

 

[AllOverAgain]

Glad nobody is offended by my post (so far ).
And thank you very much for your long response, Lashi. Very much appreciated And of course I also want to thank everyone else who responded!

I am guessing when you begin by saying "I think he loved her, but it was a selfish kind of love" you are meaning Diana Ross and not addressing the girl in Who Is It, (that we have discussed in here before as maybe being the LITD girl).

Yes, I did mean DR. Sorry, should have made that more clear.

But, more than this, I am one who believes that there is only one who can truly love in a purely unconditional manner; and that is God.

Why? Well, it has already been mentioned, imperfect humans are selfish beings, we are flawed. And if we have selfishness in us, we cannot love anyone perfectly. Only God who is perfect can love someone perfectly. That means when you get two imperfect people together who at best can only love each other imperfectly, you have times when one of them will be selfish and will hurt and disappoint the other one, and vice versa, and then they also get to take turns forgiving each other and showing each other grace.

Very true. Completely unconditional love can only be given by God, we will never reach that point but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be better and try to overcome emotions such as jealousy and anger as much as we can, right?
I would also like to point out that it certainly wasn't my intention to put MJ down for anything he might have felt or thought or done at any given time. I am sorry if it came across like that. I am aware that my post was very idealistic and by calling MJ's love "selfish" I certainly didn't mean to say that he was a selfish person or can only love in a selfish way. But in comparison to unconditional love, the idealistic and God-given one it was selfish and that was what I was aiming at. Not that it was selfish on its own. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining myself, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Now the question is if we will never be able to love someone truly unconditional, how far should we try to get there? How far can we get and how "healthy" is it really? Could it be that in the end, if we all strived for unconditional love, we would all end up like robots without any real personalities? If we would all reach the point where we overcame the negative human emotions to a certain degree how alike would we all be? Don't those "negative" emotions also define us a lot in a way? Maybe unconditional love isn't even something we should strive too much for?
Does someone get what I mean? I hope so lol :blush:

Remember God loves us unconditonally. The Bible tells us, also, that God is a jealous God. He loves His children jealously. It's not okay with Him if those He loves turns their back on Him and loves another or anything more than Him. He is not happy for them. He is jealous and wants their Love to return to Him. (Is God selfish?)

It appears that God is an example of someone who loves unconditionally and is still jealous.

Well, for me the question would be if He is acting out His jealousy or is He just jealous "on His own". This might be a strange answer, but I think maybe the crux between conditional and unconditional love is just the way how you deal with your feelings. It is normal to be jealous if the person you love is with someone else, but there is a difference if you act that feeling out on them and let them feel how unhappy you are with the choice they have made. Or if you see it as your own problem since there is free will and deal with it on your own because if they don't love you as much as you love them, what can you do? Not saying you should act all happy around that person if you don't feel that way, but just don't be unfair to them because they don't give you what you want them to give you. Can't you still be nice to them at that point without seeming like a fake and not very trustworthy person? And is that maybe what we really should strive for instead of true God-like unconditional love? Or am I completely off-track? :scratch:

Being jealous is also a God-given human emotion. It can eat away at a person, true, so it is not beneficial for that person to give into for long. I believe Michael could have been capable of loving someone very much but his human side, his flesh, could get weak and he could have gone over to feeling jealousy. But MJ was a man who knew the Bible, and I would think would go to God to help him have the right feelings and attitudes, in any situation, that was causing him that jealousy. Perhaps that is exactly what he did when he was not happy about Diana Ross marrying who and when she did, and so perhaps his jealousy did not last long. Maybe he got to the place where he was happy for her. But good for him for being so real and open and "telling" on himself to others that he was not happy that she did marry and wasn't gioing to pretend he was.

True!

There is no way I would want any fan to be left feeling they were less than, or not a "true fan," or did not really love MJ, because they for a time felt some jealousy because MJ ended up with someone other than them. Nor would I hope to see anyone feeling superior over another fan because they themselves have the "correct," the more "mature," the more "loving," (or is being one who is more able to have unconditional love for him) kind of response to the idea of MJ's finally being with someone that he loves.

Neither would I and neither was this my intention. Loving someone certainly isn't a contest in any way and I hope nobody understood my post like that!

I certainly don't condemn MJ for ever being selfish, unreasonable, jealous, immature, or any other human kind of feeling that he may have experienced in his lifetime. And I hope he wouldn't condemn me for being any of those things at times either.

*absolutely co-sign*

Just to clear up what I wanted to say..... .Unconditional love imo always involves death under certain circumstances, which makes that love unconditional. The exmple in letarture is Little Mermaid story. A historical example is Jesus Christ, which is God's love. There is NO unconditional love from fans to MJ imo, but ppl talk about all the time for some reason.That was my point.

Hmm. Interesting point for sure. But wouldn't that mean that there will always be that point in unconditional love where you have to prove your love to be unconditional by dying for the one you love, which in intself would do make it conditional again? :scratch:

 

[8701girl]

When MJ was with Debbie about to have Prince weren't the fans happy for him? If they loved him they had to be because he was happy.

I was totally happy for him

 

[Asedora]

edited

 

[Lisha]

Glad nobody is offended by my post (so far ).
And thank you very much for your long response, Lashi. Very much appreciated And of course I also want to thank everyone else who responded!



Yes, I did mean DR. Sorry, should have made that more clear.



Very true. Completely unconditional love can only be given by God, we will never reach that point but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be better and try to overcome emotions such as jealousy and anger as much as we can, right?
I would also like to point out that it certainly wasn't my intention to put MJ down for anything he might have felt or thought or done at any given time. I am sorry if it came across like that. I am aware that my post was very idealistic and by calling MJ's love "selfish" I certainly didn't mean to say that he was a selfish person or can only love in a selfish way. But in comparison to unconditional love, the idealistic and God-given one it was selfish and that was what I was aiming at. Not that it was selfish on its own. Sometimes I have a hard time explaining myself, I apologize for any misunderstandings.

Now the question is if we will never be able to love someone truly unconditional, how far should we try to get there? How far can we get and how "healthy" is it really? Could it be that in the end, if we all strived for unconditional love, we would all end up like robots without any real personalities? If we would all reach the point where we overcame the negative human emotions to a certain degree how alike would we all be? Don't those "negative" emotions also define us a lot in a way? Maybe unconditional love isn't even something we should strive too much for?
Does someone get what I mean? I hope so lol :blush:



Well, for me the question would be if He is acting out His jealousy or is He just jealous "on His own". This might be a strange answer, but I think maybe the crux between conditional and unconditional love is just the way how you deal with your feelings. It is normal to be jealous if the person you love is with someone else, but there is a difference if you act that feeling out on them and let them feel how unhappy you are with the choice they have made. Or if you see it as your own problem since there is free will and deal with it on your own because if they don't love you as much as you love them, what can you do? Not saying you should act all happy around that person if you don't feel that way, but just don't be unfair to them because they don't give you what you want them to give you. Can't you still be nice to them at that point without seeming like a fake and not very trustworthy person? And is that maybe what we really should strive for instead of true God-like unconditional love? Or am I completely off-track? :scratch:



True!



Neither would I and neither was this my intention. Loving someone certainly isn't a contest in any way and I hope nobody understood my post like that!



*absolutely co-sign*




Hmm. Interesting point for sure. But wouldn't that mean that there will always be that point in unconditional love where you have to prove your love to be unconditional by dying for the one you love, which in intself would do make it conditional again? :scratch:

Very intelligent responses. Why have you kept yourself from posting all this while? You have a lot of understanding and wisdom to share.

If members like you and Favoritetune continue to post and add to the already ongoing discussion...I can be on my merry way. Which might be good.

Everyone, keep the posts coming and I'll sit back for a bit.

 

[Favoritetune]

Lashi,

That's not right. Love your posts, are you threatening us that if we keep posting you'll stop?

 

[Ashtanga]

Hey...... >>>> :hug:

Just checking you all.... :shifty:

I'm happy this thread is going and attracting new members. :cheers: :heart: Great! :clapping: I'm sure that was what Michael wanted. :wub: :give_heart: :give_rose:


(Oh Michael.... ) *big sigh*





And I'll keep observing here.... :shifty: >>>

 

[Favoritetune]

I think it is possible to love unconditionally as a human. I imagine that is the love a loving parent has for their child and in beautiful rare cases of love spouses have for the other, sometimes even in friendship.

Unconditional means even though you say or do something displeasing or outright cruel or hateful to another the love carries on. Through the winter and summer and all of the seasons of love, love carries on. Through the good, bad happy, sad, difficult, dark and light love carries on.

Unconditional is not placing ultimatums on love as to say if you do this or unless you do that. It is accepting a person as they are and loving them even when they do not seem so loveable.

Loving someone however is not staying around to be abused by a hateful spouse or uncaring friend it is to still love them despite their flaws and failures. To help and care, share and grow is to love.

When Jesus died on the cross it was so we could receive redemption for our sins. His love was unconditional but He did not have to die because His love was unconditional. He chose to die because the wages of sin is death and we deserved to die but as a sacrificial lamb He died in our stead.

The only death that needs to die for unconditional love is a dying to self and selfish ways and not dying of self nor taking the life of another, that is not love it is waste.

The story Asedora, you described is horribly tragic and there was another way for her to express her love which would simply be to fall to her knees and seek God's grace, will and mercy for her life as well as pray for the man she loved. Her love was NOT unconditional because when she did not believe she could be with him, her love ended when she selfishly took her life and only God knows what the future holds.

Imagine if so there is a litdg had she taken her life when MJ married Lisa marie or Debbie Rowe, where would he be?

If the man someone loves is with another woman then love for that man would cause them not to hate or to harm self or others. As Lashi said jealousy is normal. As the bible says be angry but don't sin.

If love is in someones heart for another and they are with someone else then it is their job and duty to carry on ith their life to the best of their abilities being the best person they can be because for all they know they may need to grow into being the person that man or woman needs or God has the perfect person just around the corner for them.

Lashi, don't stop making your posts.

Mysterious Phoenix, where are you? I would love to hear more of your insigts.

Sdiedjs, loved that video!

All others great posts, thanks for being so open, honest and unashamed to post your thoughts!

 

[un_breakable]

Hey...... >>>> :hug:

Just checking you all.... :shifty:

I'm happy this thread is going and attracting new members. :cheers: :heart: Great! :clapping: I'm sure that was what Michael wanted. :wub: :give_heart: :give_rose:


(Oh Michael.... ) *big sigh*





And I'll keep observing here.... :shifty: >>>

Yes, i'm new and i'm trying to understand this thread, but it seems like there is too much to talk about. it will take some time to get it.

Btw, loved your thriller gif!!!! hahaha

 

[AllOverAgain]

Very intelligent responses. Why have you kept yourself from posting all this while? You have a lot of understanding and wisdom to share.

If members like you and Favoritetune continue to post and add to the already ongoing discussion...I can be on my merry way. Which might be good.

Everyone, keep the posts coming and I'll sit back for a bit.

Thank you so much, Lashi! Well, I didn't post because I had nothing to say, simple as that. And I'm not sure how much I will continue posting, I like to lurk and just read what everyone else is coming up with. I'm a bit lazy when it comes down to posting and I really suck at song interpretations but I promise that if I have something to say I will jump into the convo

When some fans say that they love MJ unconditionally , I always want to ask: Wait a minute.. How can be fan's love unconditional if you started loving him BECAUSE OF WHAT Michael DID on stage, BECAUSE of his music etc. It is not like you loved a man without anything. You loved his music first and got attracted with his talent, and fell in love with him because of that first reason. This is the whole point to be a fan right? You fell in love with the man and the artist, not just with the man. I would not call fan's love to MJ unconditional at this point.

Yes, it is love still and it is a very strong feeling. But even after his passing this love did not turn to unconditional imo, because you cannot change the past.

So to you unconditional love means loving someone for the simple fact that they are alive, do I get this right? And if this divine love isn't there from the first moment on it can never be unconditional and not even turn into unconditional love because you started to love the person for something they have done or said and not just for the fact that they are a person and alive? Just checking if I get you right

I think the closest we (humans) can get to a possibility of unconditional love experience is when 2 ppl fall in love from a very first look without knowing who is that person, what he does and such. This kind of love is rare but I believe it is possible.

Yes, that would definitely be unconditional love (unless they would fall for another because of physical attraction, but I am sure that is not what you mean here). But to me that kind of love seems almost impossible for MJ since pretty much everyone knows who he is. Probably only he could fall in love with someone by the very first look, but not the other way around because he would always have already a label from that person in a way.

Well, have you ever heard of twin flames? It is said that your twin flame is your perfect soulmate, the one person created for you. You are two pieces of the same soul and once you meet yours you will recongnize them as your twin right away. You feel as if you've known that person forever and even share such a connection where you feel their (unconditional) love all the time - and even their emotions sometimes - no matter how far you are apart. And it is said that if you look into their eyes you see yourself. You are their perfect mirror and once you've met them the connection you both share won't go away again, even if you part ways and don't talk and see each other for years. You will still feel them.

But I've also read stories where people have known each other for years and only then recognize another as their twin and that only then the connection starts with the above stated signs. Would that still be unconditional love for you? Those people didn't fall in love with another by the first sight, but still they feel a divine unconditional love for another that nothing seems to be able to break.

And I've also read stories where people have met their twin online and recognized them even there right away. Some of them have never met but feel their twin. They are together although they are apart.

Now what if MJ and his LITD girl met, recognized each other but then were kept apart for whatever reason and he started talking to her through his lyrics all those years to tell her he hadn't forgotten her? Or maybe she was so scared by the strong connection that she stayed away from him all this time for the fear that it wouldn't work out and he was searching for her by his songs? Or what if they had met online at a later time, as someone brought up here before, and they recognized another then but the girl thought it had to be all just in her head since it surely wouldn't be HER who was HIS twin flame? And so when they lost contact online at a time (like when the chat closed) she didn't think much of the ongoing connection, and in the end they never met because she didn't make any attempt to get near him again. Could that maybe the answer? :scratch:

 

[8701girl]

Hey...... >>>> :hug:

Just checking you all.... :shifty:

I'm happy this thread is going and attracting new members. :cheers: :heart: Great! :clapping: I'm sure that was what Michael wanted. :wub: :give_heart: :give_rose:


(Oh Michael.... ) *big sigh*







And I'll keep observing here.... :shifty: >>>

Yeh its great that are new members in this thread ..welcome guys!

 

[Ashtanga]

Yes, i'm new and i'm trying to understand this thread, but it seems like there is too much to talk about. it will take some time to get it.

You have many posts to read.

:lol: :wild:

Btw, loved your thriller gif!!!! hahaha

Thanks!!!

Yeh its great that are new members in this thread ..welcome guys!

Yes.... A big welcome to them. >>>> :hi:


And...........


AllOverAgain and Favoritetune... you have great thoughts. Very good! :clapping: I like to read them! Keep up the good job.... :cheeky:

:shifty:​

 

[MysteriousPhoenix]

Welcome to the fam, AllOverAgain and un_breakable!:flowers: Nice to have you aboard ... *singing* "The looooove boat soon will be making another run, the love boat promises for everyone ..."

Excellent post on unconditional love, Favoritetune! And yeah, what in thee world is Lashi talking about? Is she tryin' to make like a tree and leave? (Boy, that was a dumb joke!)