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Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

Ape said:
I enjoyed your post and thoughts. This part I cut out here made me wonder... if he was taking time to prepare everything and make it right, in his eyes, fit for a queen, then maybe she did feel abandoned by him as well. Maybe she felt that he had left her, but the reality was that he was only trying to make things perfect for her and them together. Wouldn't it have been a tragedy that the thing he was doing specifically for her, and him together, was the thing that had distanced them from each other? Due to misinterpreting things. Especially if he wanted it to be a surprise so he kept things from her, and maybe in her mind it felt like he was putting a distance between them. Just a thought. If she felt that way, maybe she would try to just make things easier for him by leaving, thinking it was what he wanted but didn't have the heart to say. (Now that story would make a great tragedy, whether true or not I think)
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That's a possibility, but in this case I think that the problem was that Michael forgot to feel HER feelings too. You know (according to MY "point of view") he was so buesy and involved in he's own feelings about this. He felt her love and then because, to him, everything about them was so perfect, he kinda assumed that she felt the same and forgot to "ask" her.
I can compair to my own relationship. It's always very important to me to keep an eye for my boyfriends current emotional state. I can immidiatly feel when he's thinking about something, if he's in pain and not telling it, or if he feels a little distanced from me.

My idea is that Michael forgot to look for these signs. He wanted it to be how he thought it could be, how he saw them fit. And did everything to make it perfect for them and for her mostly ofcourse. But he kinda left her in all that love, and in the end she never got to explain how she saw them fit, how she saw him as a human being.
 
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Reactions: SoS
Marriages:
  • Lisa Marie Presley - May 18, 1994 til January 18, 1996 - ended in divorce


  • Debbie Rowe - November 15, 1996 til October 8, 1999 - ended in divorce
(I looked it up)
“Who Is It” Single by Michael Jackson
from the album Dangerous Released August 1993 (Europe)
February 1993 (U.S.)

So....does that help anything?
 
Ape said:
Marriages:
  • Lisa Marie Presley - May 18, 1994 til January 18, 1996 - ended in divorce


  • Debbie Rowe - November 15, 1996 til October 8, 1999 - ended in divorce
(I looked it up)
“Who Is It” Single by Michael Jackson
from the album Dangerous Released August 1993 (Europe)
February 1993 (U.S.)

So....does that help anything?
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*falling off the chair* OH MY GOD is that song from 93!!?
Doesent sound like anything I remember from 93..

But then again, I was 5 years old when that single was out.. omg I'm such a little one =(

But being released in 93 would make it based on something from around 90-92 so it can't be about Lisa Marie.

...
omg I can't believe that this song is from 93.. who made songs that sounded like this in 93? This is crazy. Michael can look into the future of music or something.. 10 years in front of everyone else! Amazing :eek:
 
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Safira said:
*falling off the chair* OH MY GOD is that song from 93!!?



But being released in 93 would make it based on something from around 90-92 so it can't be about Lisa Marie.
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yeah thats what i was thinking too.
 
No I was thinking more like his heart was broken by the woman who was the subject of "Who is It" and then married Lisa, which would also go along with what was said previously about the "You Are Not Alone" song and it being when Michael was with Lisa.
 
Ape said:
No I was thinking more like his heart was broken by the woman who was the subject of "Who is It" and then married Lisa, which would also go along with what was said previously about the "You Are Not Alone" song and it being when Michael was with Lisa.
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:scratch: what was said earlier about "You Are Not Alone" ? In short :)
 
Oh gee.. I don't know. It was way back around page 180 I think, from Imjustmenothim or something like that. About the video for you are not alone how it seems like he is thinking of someone else.. you gotta go read it. lol
 
okay here i am randomly peeping in again! ^_^

anyhoo i was just in another forum (ape you were there too LOL^^)
they were dicussing there thought on threatened and in my opinion that song could somehow fit here in the scheme of things....theres alot i wanna say about my feelings on this song but i dont even know where to start! in a nutshell i really feel like in this song mj is showing his more agressive side , that sort of i want your girl and if you dont treat her right i will sort of way! LOL

"Every time your lady speaks she speaks to me, threatened
Half of me you'll never be, so you should feel threatened by me"

(HAHA half of me you'll never be, just had a naughty thought ha! anyhooo....)


anyway for some reason this song makes me think of break of dawn...do you think that maybe the girl he was wooing in break of dawn he is talking about in this song? maybe the girl he is in love with in BOD has a man and the reason why they spend all there time together at night is to "hide" from her man? and then in invincible could it be that he is trying so hard to make this same girl ditch her man and be with him?


If I could tear down these walls that keep you and I apart
I know I could claim your heart and our perfect love will start ( the walls are her man?)



and what about heartbreaker?


She blew a kiss, I swear that it was meant
only for me, then spoke with her body
her only goal is just to take control
And I can't believe that I can´t tell her no

the girl seem to pull him and even tho mj knew she had a man mj couldnt tell her no?? LOL maybe im going out on a limb with that one ...


anyway this all leads me back to threatened where mj wants that lady!!!

whatcha think??
 
I found the bolded part of what SOS said particularly interesting b/c that's the same thought I have had about Give Into Me. But that song could also be about incompatibility too. I'm just commenting on the songs not saying it's necessarily autobiographical to Michael.

In regards to Give Into Me, that song was a single in England in July 1992.


STATEofSHOCK said:
^ brilliant observation! If these two have this much personal proclivity toward drama, this makes all the sense in the world.



What was that face for? The idea that she will (always) be out of sight? If that's what that face is for I have to say I made the same face lol which brings me to another thought ...



is it possible that MJ wants her to stay out of sight? like maybe he prefers it this way? would she not be willing to do whatever in the world he actually wants? does she know exactly what that is? (if she's receiving all his communication through poems set to music is she good at figuring things like this out?) could there be something 'satisfying' about the 'out of sight' form of love? is she getting that same 'satisfaction'? by it not being purely physical? I put 'satisfaction' in quote marks because of wondering just how satisfying it could be for the mystery to become history and for them to actually BE together



...



queen_g, speaking of If You Don't Love Me, did they write eachother back and forth and her line of communication dropped? Did he write her a letter? If that's not something he does/did (and she'd hoped if she was special to him that he would), could she have been feeling the same things as he? Let down? "Abandoned"? Would she have hoped he'd write her even using a different name if it made him more comfortable? (sorry, random thought lol)



...



can you imagine when she finally sees him? *wonders how long its been since he's been held so tight he falls over with a hug*



Wish I had time to respond to more right now...



clearly what this relationship has had (as Paul Newman said in Cool Hand Luke) is "a failure to communicate" on both these peoples' parts,

unless he was expecting her to be so vain as to think every song is about her rotfl



just some random thoughts...



lol wish i had time for more ... y'all keep it rolling

oh one last thought ... speaking of something driving someone insane ...

could this girl be going stark raving mad trying to understand what he's saying to her through music? Her life can't be going along smoothly if she finally did figure it out. I say the girl could still use a bit more consideration going back to looking at it from that perspective. Can you imagine how long it would take to figure out what he's saying? Do you know that people have to take time to do things like that? Lots of songs, lots of time.

Imagine that! I mean LOTS of time... its got to have some redemptive value in the end....its just got to, Lord help these two folks redeem all this time and everything else that's been lost.
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Ape said:
Marriages:
  • Lisa Marie Presley - May 18, 1994 til January 18, 1996 - ended in divorce

  • Debbie Rowe - November 15, 1996 til October 8, 1999 - ended in divorce
(I looked it up)
“Who Is It”Single by Michael Jackson
from the album Dangerous
ReleasedAugust 1993 (Europe)
February 1993 (U.S.)


So....does that help anything?
Click to expand...
 
oh it's quite clear what is wanted and what's going on...from one point of view. take from this what you will, but study these lyrics, each and every one, in order, very carefully. a good place to obtain them is allmichaeljackson.com:

LOVE STORY

Off the Wall sessions (1977-1978)
-I Can't Help It
-It's the Falling In Love
-Rock With You
-Working Day and Night
-She's Out of My Life

Thriller sessions (1981-1982)
-Human Nature
-PYT
-Lady In My Life
-Love Never Felt So Good
-Someone in the Dark

Bad Sessions (1986-1987)
-Streetwalker
-The Way You Make Me Feel
-Fly Away
-Liberian Girl
-I Just Can't Stop Lovin' You

Dangerous sessions (1990-1992)
-In the Closet
-She Drives Me Wild
-Who Is It
-Can't Let Her Get Away
-Give In To Me
-Dangerous
-Remember the Time
-If You Don't Love Me
-Someone Put Your Hand Out

HIStory sessions (1995-1996)
-You Are Not Alone

Invincible sessions (2000-2001)
-Fall Again
-Unbreakable
-Invincible
-Break of Dawn
-Heaven Can Wait
-Rock My World
-Butterflies
-Beautiful Girl
-Speechless
-The Way You Love Me
-Don't Walk Away

Number Ones single (2003)
-One More Chance

Thriller 25 (2006-2008)
-PYT 2008
-Wanna Be Startin' Somethin 2008
-For All Time
 
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mizzneneluvzmj said:
okay here i am randomly peeping in again! ^_^

anyhoo i was just in another forum (ape you were there too LOL^^)
they were dicussing there thought on threatened and in my opinion that song could somehow fit here in the scheme of things....theres alot i wanna say about my feelings on this song but i dont even know where to start! in a nutshell i really feel like in this song mj is showing his more agressive side , that sort of i want your girl and if you dont treat her right i will sort of way! LOL

"Every time your lady speaks she speaks to me, threatened
Half of me you'll never be, so you should feel threatened by me"

(HAHA half of me you'll never be, just had a naughty thought ha! anyhooo....)


anyway for some reason this song makes me think of break of dawn...do you think that maybe the girl he was wooing in break of dawn he is talking about in this song? maybe the girl he is in love with in BOD has a man and the reason why they spend all there time together at night is to "hide" from her man? and then in invincible could it be that he is trying so hard to make this same girl ditch her man and be with him?


If I could tear down these walls that keep you and I apart
I know I could claim your heart and our perfect love will start ( the walls are her man?)



and what about heartbreaker?


She blew a kiss, I swear that it was meant
only for me, then spoke with her body
her only goal is just to take control
And I can't believe that I can´t tell her no

the girl seem to pull him and even tho mj knew she had a man mj couldnt tell her no?? LOL maybe im going out on a limb with that one ...


anyway this all leads me back to threatened where mj wants that lady!!!

whatcha think??
Click to expand...


So you think this lady may have a man?? or that some lady he was singing in BOD had a man??
 
STATEofSHOCK said:
^ why Break of Dawn?
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LOL why imo it just seems right, i dont know how else to explain it LOL

hmmm...

its just seems like starting at heartbreaker and ending at break of dawn mj is talking to this one particular girl...in heartbreaker the girl has caught his eye but she broke his heart wuth the news of another man:

She plays a game with such an innocent face
 
ah, no, thanks for clearing that up!

*oh notice heartbreaker invincible and BOD are in order as they appear on the cd
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ah, interestiing when you line that up with your analysis.
 
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mizzneneluvzmj said:
no? LOL what do u mean you dont agree? LOL thats cool too..only my opinion
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it was regarding this:

i guess i sorta threw you guys off saying she was the BOD girl and what i really meant was that she could be the same girl from all these songs! LOL i hope its not to confusing
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I just meant - no, no think nothing of it and thanks for clearing that up :)
 
^ haha cool and thanks again for clearing that up :cheeky: that was a pretty cool analysis!
 
Safira said:
That's a possibility, but in this case I think that the problem was that Michael forgot to feel HER feelings too. You know (according to MY "point of view") he was so buesy and involved in he's own feelings about this. He felt her love and then because, to him, everything about them was so perfect, he kinda assumed that she felt the same and forgot to "ask" her.
I can compair to my own relationship. It's always very important to me to keep an eye for my boyfriends current emotional state. I can immidiatly feel when he's thinking about something, if he's in pain and not telling it, or if he feels a little distanced from me.

My idea is that Michael forgot to look for these signs. He wanted it to be how he thought it could be, how he saw them fit. And did everything to make it perfect for them and for her mostly ofcourse. But he kinda left her in all that love, and in the end she never got to explain how she saw them fit, how she saw him as a human being.
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This is what I was trying to say earlier this morning. Could this be the case? Given that MJ is known to 'mastermind' things (and as he says in CLHGA "I tried to mastermind it") He may have had very good reason to feel she felt the same as he if she'd written to him or he had that feeling when they first met etc. So could it be that he just expected that she would be 'on board' with the mastermind plan she may not have been aware of and took things a different (wrong) way?

Again I say it seems that at the end of the day its a "failyah to communicate" - both of them. Her letters or lack thereof, his songs being spread out over time..

I'm also convinced that much of what MJ does is use metaphor, fantasy and lots of drama for drama sake (to entertain). He's very good at that. :yes: I say that because as Safira pointed out, there is a lot of dramatic expression and emotional response to things. He's been fortunate to have his outlet be music where he can have catharsis using drama and make a living at it! Blessed fella he is. :yes:

It seems there are at least three different women represented in this body of work. The suductress who was always trying to seduce him, the "shy girl" who didn't talk to him, just up and ran away, and the "otherwise engaged one" who was irresistable and had another man who was not treating her in as worthy a manner that he could have.

Which of them is "Someone In the Dark"?

the love story continues as the mystery unfolds...
 
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mizzneneluvzmj said:
you rock! LOL thanks that was my first time really thinking and trying to pick apart mj's songs like you professionals do..your all so good!!!!
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These ladies actually interpret ... all I do is observe 'out loud' pretty much like you did
but thanks for the compliment :flowers:
 
You guys are good at analysising mj songs :)..(sorry if the spelling is wrong)
 
a long night ahead...
this owl is awake for the long haul!

hooooo-hooooo

what do you all have tonite?
 
it's going to take some diving and delving to really look through those lyrics i listed on page 203.

it won't be just the lyrics to take note of.

it will be many things.

it is just vastly important that you take note of the timing and when they were recorded...among other things.

happy unfolding!

btw i made a nice little typo in my list post. it is fixed now, but please put "the way you love me" in with the invincible sessions, NOT the thriller sessions. refer to the list as to placement. sorry about that.

and may you find the answers you are looking for - at least from "his" point of view. i'd LOVE to hear your "love stories" based off of the list information i have given you. take your time with this project. all good things take time.

but i know...the fun is in the continual suspense, drama, speculation, etc. not to mention talking with good friends about a very complex yet very simple person. we are, after all, only human. and i, too, love talking here. it's so difficult "out there".
 
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well, its a pretty long list. my first thought is that its about different women here and there in his massively famous, desireable life

In trying to understand what's been going on with MJ, I lean more toward the spiritually oriented songs and the ones where he is being very point-blank in his expressions (eg., anger, pain, rage, extra-tender loving feelings etc.) rather than the entertainment oriented ones because I feel that in the later songs probably lies more truth.

For the most part, I see Off the Wall songs as being an offspring of the music he made with his brothers but a departure inthat he was looking for his own sound, and I'm not really 'feeling' his intent being so much to "communicate".

It seems he had to get the mechanics of making massive sales out of the way. I feel the same way about Thriller generally speaking because his intent was to surpass Off the Wall so I saw Thriller as being primarily a commercial necessity too, although on both albums he may have managed to express with some depth his own feelings but I'm imagining he was at the mercy of whatever the "experts" (Quincy and whomever) said would work commercially.

I see from Dangerous onward, as being his opportunity to say only what he wanted to say, only because he wanted to say it, no longer being bound by a need for sales to skyrocket since he'd already accomplised that.

I feel the exception is 'outtake' songs that are on Special Editions and unreleased songs that he decided to let go "out there" because again, he could use those songs that may not have been "release-worthy", to communicate, if he so desired? :dunno:

As for storyline, I feel there are many, not just one.
 
If he's talking to one person now and she's discerning enough to understand that without question, in absence of the use of her name for clarity, or help putting together the past with the present etc., it would be so amazing. I tend to feel he's given "her" enough "hints" (about things only the two of them can understand) and maybe she does know keeping in mind there's knowing something and KNOWing it.

On the other hand, if she's deciphering songs in this particular way, within the time it takes to get needed rest, go to work, take care of business, any children and other very necessary things, I can't see MJ being okay with possibly driving someone nutz LOL especially if he really believes she is alone, UNLESS ... unless he is planning to supply her with custom made straight jackets..lol or unless he is under the assumption that for most people 'time' has the same meaning it has for him ... pure choice to what to do with it, that is. If this is the case they both need :angel: because most people don't have that particular (unlimited) degree of time. *gets vision of woman who goes to work and finds she'd missed an entire week trying to figure this all out* If she's loved him since the days of SITD and in so much truth, and with so much misunderstanding of the past, then anything's possible.

On the other hand, if its the same girl he'd been so angry with for not catching his earlier master plan, he may be trying to "torture" her in return for all the agony he feels she put him through, for all anyone knows. Some here seemed to buy into that astrological analysis of him being Scorpio rising LOL (I don't necessarily) ...and then, as Shakespeare said, "the fault lies not in our stars but in ourselves"

hay, he's only human, nobody's perfect yet ...

There's a cold that's trying to catch me so I'm gonna go nip it in the bud ...

y'all have fun picking it all apart

I'd love to see what's been deciphered when I return
 
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