7/20/09 Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I'm just tired of Joe claiming Michael lied about being abused.
Why would Michael lie about something like that?

You are right, I don't believe Michael did lie about that.

Joe and Leonard I believe to be liars. 'Possibly' Joe is cut off a lot from family and loves attention and Leonard can't get over Michael sacking him. He is a crook, once had to pay back Prince money in the past - google it.

Saying that doesn't mean I trust AEG either... they are all suspicious to me right now.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

All I gotta say is...Joe is old and he is neva gonna change...

But he loved Michael in his OWN way....

Only Michael and Joe knew their real relationship and only God can judge.

It was nice hearing Joe say he like Earth Song.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

A summary of people running around with drug stories

  • Brian Oxman - last saw Michael in the trial in 2005 when he was fired by Mesereau
  • Deepak Chopra - last saw Michael in 2005 for just a week when Michael was acquitted
  • Uri Geller - last saw Michael in 2002 after meeting Michael in 2000
  • Matt Fiddes - last saw Michael in 2001, saw Michael for just 3 days
  • Leonard Rowe - Last saw Michael in 2009 after not seeing him for over 20 years - hardly close to Michael
  • Nutritionist - last saw Michael a long time back - claims Michael spoke to her 3 months back, then his last Sunday
    - she says on Sunday, Michael's staff called her saying he was hot and cold on one side
    - her story contradicts Dr Klein's story who says on Monday, Michael was dancing in the office
    - she started off the diprivan story
  • Dr Klein - runs off with drug addict innuendo which has to do with 1993
    - refers to diprivan in HIStory tour, unsure whether the story is original knowledge or he is copying the nutritionist
  • Former security guard - Last saw Michael in 2003
    - says Michael was overprescribed, but he is not a doctor to know why Michael was prescribed each given medication
  • Tabloids - carrying the story that Jackson’s tried to intervene, yet Geragos, Mez, Ramone, who cover 2003 to 2007 period saw no such basis to intervene
    - and Jacksons released a statement in 2007 refuting that
MICHAEL's HEALTH

We all know he had
  • Lupus
  • Vitiligo
  • Fire injury
  • Back problems from 1999
  • 1998 injury while dancing, foot in cast, as well as other dancing injuries
  • Spider bite in 2001
  • Dancer's feet problems
  • Depression because of Sony in 2001, Bashir in 2003 and trial in 2003 to 2005, media attacks and not to forget 1993
  • and possibly other treatments, fever and so on when he was feeling unwell
All this stuff needed medication at one point or another
Michael could not stop taking lupus medication just because he had to take depression medicine

And that applies to back injury medication and so on.
There is a reason for all this medicine, but for an outsider or security guard, it looks like "overprescribed" when he sees all the medicine that Michael has.

The media that loves scandal, does not want to explain any of this for the viewer, as long as one of the ignorant, self-serving people above come along and make allegations that he was a "drug addict", no discussion of any of his ailments.

And I can bet Schmuley is quiet and busy writing his book too so as to cash in. It's surprising he only spoke once on tv unlike the usual rounds he makes.

THE TRUTH

The truth about Michael's death can only be one

  • - It was a prescription he took - which is unlikely unless it conflicted with something the doctor prescribed
  • - diprivan and he failed to wake up - but that assumes this doctor took on an anaesthologist role which he shouldn't, something he has denied
  • - It was something the doctor prescribed - which he has said nothing he prescribed was lethal to kill Michael
  • - It was lupus - a possibility given that the autopsy was inconclusive
  • - It was poison - may never be known
I WILL SHARE SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT

Many years back when I wasn't into MJ, I was somewhere and I heard a speaker talk about how Michael would live to be 49yrs old only because of the condition that he had.

At that time, I didn't know too much what he was talking about. But when I got to know Michael more this decade and then learnt that he had lupus, from time to time I was concerned about him when I recalled what that person said, but when I saw people who had vitiligo up to 80yrs old, I sort of brushed it aside.

I also knew Michael was aware of the risks, therefore he always had an umbrella to prevent skin cancer.

When he became 50yrs old, I recalled what that guy had said and was happy that Michael had passed that 49yr mark the guy had spoken of.
But after Michael's death and reading more about Lupus, I realise Lupus may have had a significant role to play, especially at this point in time when it may have been more lethal.

Michael complaining about not feeling well was an alert, and had he been around a doctor who knew his medical history and lupus quite well, Michael should have spent the night in hospital or a clinic, not in the home.
The alternative of close observation at home should have been with pulse-monitoring equipment, with an alarm when the heart rate/pulse begins dropping
As Tito said, the doctor panicked, because when he found Michael's heart rate dropping, the first thing would be to call for an emergency, not to try and fight to resuscitate someone with a lupus condition. That is where things went wrong.

This is a history of Michael fainting

1980 - Triumph tour gets cancelled
1990 - he phones his doctor who calls 911 to go to Michael's flat
1995 - rehearsals for HBO, Michael was rushed to hospital
1999 - Sony studio. Michael was rushed to a clinic
2003 - On his was to Steepletown deposition, Michael was rushed to hospital
2009 - In his home, doctor performed CPR for 20 to 30 minutes before calling 911 - a delay in rushing him to hospital

Therefore, his health could not be stabilised in time to override whatever life-threatening ailment he had, which possibly is lupus that can attack the heart from time to time

Interesting.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Joe is old.

Joe aint NEVER gonna change.

All the gripin here aint gonna change that either.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

rsw22, you make good points. However -- I'll add -- if Michael's death were caused by heart-damage due to the lupus, that would have been said following the first autopsy. Damage to the heart would have probably been obvious in an autopsy, in that lupus can cause inflammation of internal organs and the inflammatioin would have been visible. Far different from a heart that simply stops beating. Instead, they were unable to determine the cause of death and we await tox-reports. Lupus can be of two types, one affecting primarily the skin, and the more serioius type affecting internal organs. We KNOW he had the type that affects the skin. We have no knowledge at this point if his lupus had gone systemic.

There is much that is still unknown, including whether or not Michael was addicted to drugs at the time of his death. Those who talked about continuing drug problems are not a very credible list. That would seem to leave overdose and/or Diprivan as probable causes. Jury still out as to whether such an overdose was deliberate on someone's part, or accidental. At worst, someone meant him harm. At best (and it isn't good), someone was incredibly stupid/incompetant.

ABOUT LUPUS

Treatments for Lupus are vast. There are many choices and solutions. And, many of the treatments themselves can lead to further complications that may require specific remedies as well...

Treatments themselves can lead to other symptoms. Then, those symptoms must be treated -- further leading to more symptoms...
For example, one treatment may lead to fatigue and skin rashes. Therefore, there are further treatments to remedy the fatigue and skin rashes that persist because of the initial treatment...


About Half Of The People With Systemic Lupus Erythematosus Have Organ Threatening Disease That Can Effect:

  • Heart
  • Lung
  • Kidney
  • Liver
  • Serious Blood Involvemen

People with lupus are more likely to have clogged arteries that can lead to heart attack and stroke at a younger age, likely due to the inflammation from lupus.



the cause of early heart disease and stroke, worsened or provoked by steroids used to treat lupus.

SYMPTOMS:


  • Fatigue
  • Fever
  • Weight loss or gain
  • Joint pain, stiffness and swelling
  • Butterfly-shaped rash (malar rash) on the face that covers the cheeks and bridge of the nose
  • Skin lesions that appear or worsen with sun exposure
  • Mouth sores
  • Hair loss (alopecia)
  • Fingers and toes that turn white or blue when exposed to cold or during stressful periods (Raynaud's phenomenon)
  • Shortness of breath
  • Chest pain
  • Dry eyes
  • Easy bruising
  • Anxiety
  • Depression
  • Memory loss

This is really sad. :(
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Oh damn. Wait. Hold up. The plot thickens like a mug. I didn't know Murray said this. Interesting. If AEG tries to say, HEY! He technically wasn't on the payroll yet... then the answer would be why not... and if MJ didn't sign any contracts yet....

Doom Doom. Oh yes. Liza is sho right. All hell is about to break loose now....

Although... I find it very hard to believe that MJ didn't sign a contract after AEG had invested $20 million. Don't make sense to me, but hell, nothing much about this situation does...

*If* AEG says that Murray technically wasn't on the payroll and they don't have to pay him - then a world full of finger pointing may open up and we just might get the truth after all. So much for "hell hath no fury as a woman scorned" - Murray may just be ticked off enough to reveal what he knows. *This is just speculation of course.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Where IS this Tohme character, anyway? He was very close to Michael and then he vanished? I Googled him. Seems very sketchy to me. One thing I do know, is that he and Colony Capital now control Neverland. Was Michael forced into a corner on that one? I hope that one day we find out.


Tohme has control of Neverland? or did he just help work the partnership deal out for Michael with Barrack (Colony Capital)? :huh:
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I was shocked to hear that Joe never viewed Michael's body.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight


We all know he had
  • Lupus
  • Vitiligo
  • Fire injury
  • Back problems from 1999
  • 1998 injury while dancing, foot in cast, as well as other dancing injuries
  • Spider bite in 2001
  • Dancer's feet problems
  • Depression because of Sony in 2001, Bashir in 2003 and trial in 2003 to 2005, media attacks and not to forget 1993


  • As far as depression is conserned, we can't know when he had it.
    There are evidence that he had it in early 90s, but we can't know for other periods.

    However, i'm quite sure that MJ suffered from depression for many more years... It's not just something that goes away easily.

    And i don't beleive that sony caused depression lol...
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Yeah. I feel you. There are a number of possibilities:
1. What if there weren't enough prescriptions in his body to cause cardiac arrest?

2. What if only standard medication related to his lupus was found in his system and they're searching the brain for answers?

3. What if there were too many drugs in his system to be a standard overdose, meaning "drugs" were in his system which he couldn't have put there because he would have already gone into cardiac arrest by that time?

4. What if there were meds found in his house that weren't in his system? The police would want to know where they magically came from.

5. What if there is no valid/believable explanation as to what Murray was doing for 20-30 minutes before he waited to get somebody to call the paramedics?

6. What if Michael's food or drinks were being laced with something which interacted with whatever legit (or not) medication he was on?

7. What if he was taking a regular prescription that was written in a dosage much too high for someone of his weight? Or what if the doctor wrote the wrong mg number and he was taking too much not on purpose but accidentally?

8. What if diprivan is the cause of death but they're still puzzled as to why other medications were there because they weren't the primary cause of death?

9. What if there was something in his system that wasn't in the house and they don't know how it got in him?

This could go on and on and on. The police would need all this time to check out all this stuff. There are a number of possibilities.

But seriously it cannot be as cut and dry as a regular overdose because that would have been announced unless the Jackson family's autopsy report contradicts, in some way, the police's.
I thought about some of those things after I posted. Cherbum II has just posted an article from Fox News: the LAPD Robbery and Homicide division, as well as the LAPD DEA was in LV yesterday tracing down leads.

Something is about to go down.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Larry king actually irritated me last night

Same here. Larry King actually pissed me off with some of his questions and the constant interruptions. I swear, some of his questions had me thinking, "WTF?!".
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Deepak Chopra says had met Michael only a few weeks before he died to discuss lyrics on a new song that Michael wanted him to write. So he had a more recent picture. And he does talk about drug-addiction. So did Rowe and Papa Joe last night on LKL
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Same here. Larry King actually pissed me off with some of his questions and the constant interruptions. I swear, some of his questions had me thinking, "WTF?!".

Not defending Larry King, but alot of the questions he was asking were the same as what people were asking in his blog. They were stupid, especially the one that Joe totally ignored (yea!) about the Michael having alot of plastic surgery. Why even go there? Ridiculous.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I thought about some of those things after I posted. Cherbum II has just posted an article from Fox News: the LAPD Robbery and Homicide division, as well as the LAPD DEA was in LV yesterday tracing down leads.

Something is about to go down.


This case is out of the scope of LAPD, they should hand it over completely to the DEA and let the FEDs go where they can not.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Poor Joe. He said he was barred from seeing Michael Jackson ... wow. So he WAS blocked from Michael and now I believe the family when they say they were blocked too. Very interesting.

yeah but just cos MJ didnt get to see the family that much may have been cos MJ didnt want to see them that much. particularly if they are harping on about reunion tours and all over him about $$$$. PLUS I DONT REALLY GET WHAT THE FAMILY MEAN COS THEY HAD THAT MEAL WITH HIM A MONTH AGO. IF THEY THOUGHT THERE WERE MAJOR ISSUES.. WHY NOT BRING ANYTHING UP THEN WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE

just seems like MJ and the family were fairly estranged and thats cos MJ wanted it that way. the family dont want to accpet this so are saying he was being controlled


I can not begin to tell you how frustrated I am at everyone coming on TV and doing interviews saying that they know what was in Michaels head and they knew what he was going thru and they know what he would want. This all comes off as very self serving and frankly it is making me physically ill. Joe and the whole family needs to stay off the TV atleast until the autopsy results come out and we know exactly what killed Mike. Until that happens all of this is speculation.

i'm hitting my head against the wall too.... what the hell is the point coming out and throwing fingers all over the place at AEG etc when there are no toxicology results?? in HELLO! UK edition this week Mark Leister has said that MJs mum is not happy with the fact members of the family have been talking to the press.. i mean why is latoya screaming murder when there are no results to back this up?? shes just sounding crazy and creating a circus


AEG would not have chosen to hire Murray... he was a massive extra expense for them. normal doctors arent charging $150,000 a month!!?!? thats crazy. i'm sure that MJ insisted on this for this reason alone
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Thank you Vargak for your posts. I completely agree with you.
True friends don't go on TV to spit dirt on their friends, calling him a drug addict.
We have not proof that Michael was a drug addict and yet everybody on this forum talks about it as if it was proven Michael was a drug addict. I very surprised that people on this forum are so adamant that MICHAEL was a drug addict. We do not know anything.
So please I think we need to take all the speculations with a grain of salt and just wait for the final autopsy and toxicology reports.
Last thing I want to add, if we refer to Chris Apostle and Corey's interview, we understand how much preparing to a tour takes a toll on Michael Jackson as Corey explained in the interview. So may be the IV poles that were supposedly found in Michael's home were there to give him food and nutrients intraveneously. Indeed, michael even told Corey that last time he went on tour (History Tour), they had to hook him up to an IV in order for him to survive(since he was very dehydrated...). So guys I urge everyone to be cautious in their assumptions and wait because the IVs and other pills allegedly found in Michael's home may have been there only to provide him with nutrients, vitamins....
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

The ONLY thing I cannot understanding from the day Michael Joseph Jackson died, is where did all the Overwhelming he died of a Drug Overdose come from, because many people from day 1 where also saying it was Murder. No one had seen Michael in years except 2 weeks before his death he was shown walking happily with his 3 children, the only people on the news where people who hadnt seen him in years or that he had fired talking about him being in bad health and on drugs, I dont understand why so many people went into protection mode for all the people who was surrounding Michael the last days of his life, that sent red flags up even some FAN Boards became bias against Michael's Father and the possiblity of him dying any other way they only promoted "Drug OverDose", when in the real world those people around a person when found dead are the people held under the highest suspicion from the get go. I just glad now the Internet is full of Google "Was Michael Jackson Murdered to Michael Jackson was Murdered" . Im glad smart people know things just dont go down like this with Michael Jackson without TONS of questions being asked which makes EVERYONE that was around him at time of Death a Suspect first wheter its AEG or the crackhead on the corner or the big Music Industry Man in the $5000 suit they all are Suspects. I will continue to say I Do Not Believe Michael Joseph Jackson was doing or Abusing Drugs on June 25, 2009 and I believe the Coroner believes that too.
 
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Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I do not know if AEG is guilty of anything. I do not want to speculate on that.
But in my humble opinion, one very shady person is more than ever standing out now: Dr TOHME tOHME.
I have never trusted this person particularly when we knew that he was the one who instigated Michael belongings' auction in a way Michael had not agree to. In addition he was disputing Michael's four cars saying that the cars were his just before being fired by Michael. And now, oh surprise, he is seen at the hospital next to Jermaine when the latter was doing the press conference!
How do you call this more than suspicious behaviour? I pray this guy get investigated thoroughly.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I'm sorry but Larry King needs to learn that when someone talks, have the common courtesy to LISTEN and not too stop cutting them off.
That's the whole reason why we watched was it not??? To hear his side of the story and not listen to Larry being a tool.
It just seemed a little messy to me and yeah I do think AEG have acted a little shady,they pushed Michael too far. All for money. Poor guy.

I do agree with Heartbreak, if he did say he beat those kids I think it's safe to say that Katherine might lose those kids as they are still married and if Joe went back well the media would have a field day....they are just waiting for the next bit of bait they can take to make life terrible for this family.

I feel a mixed bag of things about Joe, I just don't know what's going on in that guy's head.
I feel I just can't comment on it because we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. He might be taking it really badly, filled with guilt and is putting on a front to make everything look okay which comes across really, really badly.

I think he may not have been brought up to know how to show love and affection. Or on the other hand he could just be a complete shady guy, who has no interest other than on his fortunes and music deals. Must have done something wrong to get cut out of the will. Michael did love him but Joe treated him so badly.

I didn't think the interview was great. Larry needs to hang up those braces!
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

I never understood that quote. Were Liza and Michael still that close? Or how would she know?

See, that's what I want to know. Personally, they never striked me as being close, but then again, what the hell do I know? I think even Larry King asked her want she meant by that quote, but I don't remember if she ever explained. I don't know if she was referring to things in general like his kids, his money, etc. or if it was in regard to something else... I haven't heard any other statements from Liza since June. :unsure:
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Does anyone remember reading what Kathy Smith, the fitness video lady said when she met him 2 weeks before he passed? She wrote in her blog the day after Michael died that he was in the same building she was and she said he was trying to cancel a concert and she said that he said they were SO MEAN, SO MEAN. This sounds a lot like the control issues being mentioned by Joe, Leonard, Terry Harvey, etc.

http://www.kathysmith.com/blog/2009/06/

From the blog: We talked for a while. He introduced me to his children - who were sweet, beautiful, and clearly adored their father - and he told me about canceling an upcoming concert in London. “The people were so mean,” he said, visibly upset. “Just so mean.”

Of course they were mean. And I don't say that without sympathy. It's just that if you look at this from a professional standpoint (meaning let's take MJ out of the equation and put a random artist in this scenario), they had already advanced him millions of dollars, poured millions of dollars into production, cancelled 3-4 shows that nearly shifted the fanworld off its axis with rage and increased the doubt that the shows just may not happen at all, and they were a month away from the opening date. I'm sure the last thing they were trying to hear was ANYBODY mentioning the word cancellation at that point. It would be interesting to know why he wanted to cancel a date and for what reason. The only show I could see being in question or of any dire importance would have been the opening date and ya'll know if that date had been resheduled all Hell would have broken loose (not being able to see the future, of course). A lot was on the line for a lot of ppl with these shows whether they were 10 or 30 or 50.

What's odd is Micheal was a very good businessman. He was known to be very shrewd, so sometimes you hear things and wonder WHAT in God's name...?! The level of professionalism in his team sometimes lacked and it just didn't make any sense, imo. After reading this comment about the people being mean, I wonder...did Jesus take the wheel, here? Did he take Michael from this world to save him from himself? Personal responsibility plays a part here, imho, regardless of who all else is ultimately responsible. No one is perfect but everyone knows MJ was too nice, too trusting, possibly too naive in certain situations which sometimes led to lawsuits and expensive misunderstandings and deals going off-track; ppl taking advantage of him. It was neverending in the past 10-15 years. Project after project delayed or derailed in some capacity; not necessarily due to MJ's fault, of course, but the door was always somehow left often for these things to fail.

Also, I don't believe Michael was anyone's puppet either, but I do believe he may have found himself in a jam this time and was halfway in puppetland to some extent, hence the "they were so mean" comments where he felt he had no control or final say. You have ppl saying he was forced to fire and hire ppl, yet he was able to fire Tohme and hire Rowe at his own will. So he wasn't completely powerless in all areas, imo. People were saying they couldn't reach Michael when we saw all the pictures of Michael out and about. Fans knew where to find Michael and were allowed time to talk with him. Others could have done the same thing if they were determined.

Anyway, with everything being said now it seems like these concerts were doomed before they got started (with Michael signing a contract he either hadn't read or was misinterpreted to him by his representative), and may have been doomed in some other way down the line had he lived and the shows went on. For all we know, the end results would have been the same (Michael dying) but instead of in his house in California it could have been onstage or backstage or in his home in London. I do wonder if Jesus simply took the wheel. And now Michael doesn't have to worry about anyone else being mean to him again. :(
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

When michael made the this is it announcement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaySqh1XPU

doesnt he sound, act different??

I never found anything different about Michael at the O2 press conference. I've also heard Michael speak in that lower tone before (and have a video from 1988 speaking in that lower tone) which is his natural voice

European fans can watch the Joesph Jackson interview via a download video podcast from iTunes, I subscribe to Larry King's show via iTunes. Or you can watch a bit of the interview in the CNN web site http://edition.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/larry.king.live/, and get a link to the podcast for the full interview.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

What do you mean?

Edit: Was to mspenny
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

He walks in a little slouchy and his voice sounds lethargic to me. It's easy to make these sorts of observations in retrospect though :)
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

When michael made the this is it announcement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaySqh1XPU

doesnt he sound, act different??

Holy Crap! I hadn't seen it before and I was excited and jumping out of my seat (at work even). THAT is how I'm going to remember Michael.

He looked AMAZING! He sounded great. Maybe a little tired. He sure didn't look "frail" to me.

Seriously, thank you so much for posting this link because even still the Immense Love that I feel towards him is all around me and so is his presence. I never felt my moms presence like this after she died. He's amazing.

My god Michael LOVED his fans. The fans were going CRAZY for him!!

Sorry - I'm a bit hyped up from seeing that. Wow...

One thing is for certain - we the fans won't let anything get swept under the rug. We'll see to that.

You guys are all amazing! I'm blown away at the comments here and just about everything (and then some) I've thought has been covered. One day soon we're going to know the results of those toxicology reports - unless those are fabricated as well for whatever reason. I can't wait till we can get out of this limbo and move forward.

All the best to all the true MJ fans! :)
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Omg I had to laugh hearing Joe say this:

A lot of ppl in america spank their kids and if they say they don't their lying.
Michael was never beaten by me at all.
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Anyway, with everything being said now it seems like these concerts were doomed before they got started (with Michael signing a contract he either hadn't read or was misinterpreted to him by his representative), and may have been doomed in some other way down the line had he lived and the shows went on. For all we know, the end results would have been the same (Michael dying) but instead of in his house in California it could have been onstage or backstage or in his home in London. I do wonder if Jesus simply took the wheel. And now Michael doesn't have to worry about anyone else being mean to him again. :sad:

Aww damn....talk about getting choked up. :(
 
Re: Joe Jackson On Larry King tonight

Joe was abusive, there's no doubt in my mind. Michael did not become that way (you know what I mean) over night.
 
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