HIStoric
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Autotune didn't exist until the late 1990s
Autotune didn't exist until the late 1990s
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Themidwestcowboy
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Wow, i really hope they don't do this. Autotune is not "cool" or "Popular" anymore. The only (or OK, most) artists that uses autotune do it to cover up their vocal deficiencies.
Wow, i really hope they don't do this. Autotune is not "cool" or "Popular" anymore. The only (or OK, most) artists that uses autotune do it to cover up their vocal deficiencies.
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
There isn't Autotune on Best of Joy -- more like Melodyne. If it was Autotune it would be much more noticeable than it is. Regardless, it doesn't bother me at all. I never even notice it unless I actually sit and think, "Hey, there is Melodyne on this."
There isn't Autotune on Best of Joy -- more like Melodyne. If it was Autotune it would be much more noticeable than it is. Regardless, it doesn't bother me at all. I never even notice it unless I actually sit and think, "Hey, there is Melodyne on this."
HIStory
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Wasn't there a note found at MJ's saying "no melodyne". So I guess he was against such things. He definitely did not need it. Of course, Dangerous does not have autotune, it did not even exist back then.
Wasn't there a note found at MJ's saying "no melodyne". So I guess he was against such things. He definitely did not need it. Of course, Dangerous does not have autotune, it did not even exist back then.
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I don't want Michael's vocals touched at all. If the song doesn't sound great or not completed at all then I wish for it to be left alone. Focus on what you can work with.
I don't want Michael's vocals touched at all. If the song doesn't sound great or not completed at all then I wish for it to be left alone. Focus on what you can work with.
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I think if you have a great song and the only usable vocal take has off-pitch vocals, it doesn't necessarily hurt to add a bit of Melodyne. Just know the limits. Don't go all Hollywood Tonight on us.
I think if you have a great song and the only usable vocal take has off-pitch vocals, it doesn't necessarily hurt to add a bit of Melodyne. Just know the limits. Don't go all Hollywood Tonight on us.
HIStoric
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Some artists are fine without autotune but will use it for artistic purposes (i.e. to make themselves sound 'heartless', like a robot blah blah blah) but I agree, Autotune isn't considered 'cool' or 'popular'. Anyways, I don't think producers would do it for Michael either because they'd get a lot of shit for it.
I think if they have a song that has too little vocals, but a really kickass instrumental, they could include it anyway. Just make a point about it somewhere or something (i.e. write '(Dance Mix)' after it)... or perhaps include it as a short interlude between songs!
Some artists are fine without autotune but will use it for artistic purposes (i.e. to make themselves sound 'heartless', like a robot blah blah blah) but I agree, Autotune isn't considered 'cool' or 'popular'. Anyways, I don't think producers would do it for Michael either because they'd get a lot of shit for it.
I think if they have a song that has too little vocals, but a really kickass instrumental, they could include it anyway. Just make a point about it somewhere or something (i.e. write '(Dance Mix)' after it)... or perhaps include it as a short interlude between songs!
Themidwestcowboy
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Michael didn't do off pitch vocals, he had absolute pitch
Michael didn't do off pitch vocals, he had absolute pitch
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Of course, but even those with absolute pitch will stray off every so often. Michael's pitch wasn't always on point during his career
Michael didn't do off pitch vocals, he had absolute pitch
Of course, but even those with absolute pitch will stray off every so often. Michael's pitch wasn't always on point during his career
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
If they are going to re-produce the songs, re-produce the songs around how Michael sings the song.
Melodyne is a cool tool, and all, but doing it on MJ's album is not acceptable IMO.
I think it does. It's quite easy to notice melodyne, it's so unnatural sounding. It wasn't there when Michael recorded the vocals, so let them be. The melodyne in the 2010 version of The Way You Love Me is absolutely bothering. It sounds so unnatural and altered and I hate it.
If they are going to re-produce the songs, re-produce the songs around how Michael sings the song.
Melodyne is a cool tool, and all, but doing it on MJ's album is not acceptable IMO.
bobmoo79
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
when used properly for minor adjustments autotune is not obvious to most people.
The 'cool' autotune referred to is when it's been deliberately used to produce that distorted sound. they would never do that to MJ's vocals. Partly because it just wouldn't be right and proper for them to do it - MJ fans would be in arms and they'd be heavily criticised in the press - and that sound is just not 'cool' anymore anyway.
As for melodyne, that too can be made obious but when used for minor tweaks by a competent professional it can be virtually impossible for a normal person to notice it. some songs released will have good vocals where MJ had almost included it on an album but later decided against it. Those vocals would not need work. where MJ recorded only loose vocals for a demo or other early work, the vocals may be less than perfect and will require some form of enhancement, so it's understandable that they might do something to them. As long as it's done well I don't mind them using Autotune or Melodyne.
Overprocessing can make anybody's voice sound strange, especially if you include a combination of tempo change as well as fixing tuning/pitching issues. For example if you speed up Mj's voice the vibrato will sound very peculiar indeed.
when used properly for minor adjustments autotune is not obvious to most people.
The 'cool' autotune referred to is when it's been deliberately used to produce that distorted sound. they would never do that to MJ's vocals. Partly because it just wouldn't be right and proper for them to do it - MJ fans would be in arms and they'd be heavily criticised in the press - and that sound is just not 'cool' anymore anyway.
As for melodyne, that too can be made obious but when used for minor tweaks by a competent professional it can be virtually impossible for a normal person to notice it. some songs released will have good vocals where MJ had almost included it on an album but later decided against it. Those vocals would not need work. where MJ recorded only loose vocals for a demo or other early work, the vocals may be less than perfect and will require some form of enhancement, so it's understandable that they might do something to them. As long as it's done well I don't mind them using Autotune or Melodyne.
Overprocessing can make anybody's voice sound strange, especially if you include a combination of tempo change as well as fixing tuning/pitching issues. For example if you speed up Mj's voice the vibrato will sound very peculiar indeed.
Themidwestcowboy
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News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I can understand sometimes being off pitch while singing live in a concert while dancing and what not, but in a studio session after a proper warm up and all there is no way MJ would have sung off pitch. MJ was always so critical about his performance and used to do dozens of takes and choosing the absolute best. After singing for 50 years MJ would have easily spotted what was off pitch and and re-recorded it.
"He's doing both voice testing just to sing for five minutes. He's testing his voice for three hours to sing for five minutes. None of the people that you think still got it do that. I've seen it, in my house. That's because he's a perfectionist and he just likes testing his voice. I've seen it... Perfect pitch,"
- Will I Am
Of course, but even those with absolute pitch will stray off every so often. Michael's pitch wasn't always on point during his career
I can understand sometimes being off pitch while singing live in a concert while dancing and what not, but in a studio session after a proper warm up and all there is no way MJ would have sung off pitch. MJ was always so critical about his performance and used to do dozens of takes and choosing the absolute best. After singing for 50 years MJ would have easily spotted what was off pitch and and re-recorded it.
"He's doing both voice testing just to sing for five minutes. He's testing his voice for three hours to sing for five minutes. None of the people that you think still got it do that. I've seen it, in my house. That's because he's a perfectionist and he just likes testing his voice. I've seen it... Perfect pitch,"
- Will I Am
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KOPV
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
To me what the difference is with Best Of Joy is the filterations.. Ony most Michael Jackson songs they did not filter out much breathing, and various different sounds that would naturally be picked up which brings a rawness to a song that is so appealing and brings so much emotion... Best Of Joy along with some others even on Invincible have higher filtrations that most MJ songs don't.
Things like this really make a big big difference in the way a song sounds without most people realizing it.
I'm hoping songs that are released on the next album that they keep the vocal track the way Michael left it. No extra filtrations!
To me what the difference is with Best Of Joy is the filterations.. Ony most Michael Jackson songs they did not filter out much breathing, and various different sounds that would naturally be picked up which brings a rawness to a song that is so appealing and brings so much emotion... Best Of Joy along with some others even on Invincible have higher filtrations that most MJ songs don't.
Things like this really make a big big difference in the way a song sounds without most people realizing it.
I'm hoping songs that are released on the next album that they keep the vocal track the way Michael left it. No extra filtrations!
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I have to say, very good points about the Melodyne. Of course I am with everyone when I say that I would rather have songs completely free of it, but I wouldn't completely reject a song just because it was featured here and there, just as many of you wouldn't. At the end of the day, I still find Best of Joy to be one of the most simply charming songs Michael has ever done.
I have to say, very good points about the Melodyne. Of course I am with everyone when I say that I would rather have songs completely free of it, but I wouldn't completely reject a song just because it was featured here and there, just as many of you wouldn't. At the end of the day, I still find Best of Joy to be one of the most simply charming songs Michael has ever done.
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
well, if we will be getting the newly remixed versions as well as the demo's when the album is released then of course the demo's disc will not be edited one bit.. that's what i love about bad 25 disc 2.. that's my favorite disc the estate have released so far.. it would be wonderful if they released a special edition for the fans.. so we can hear the last parts that Michael worked on when he was here.. demo's will always be better than new mixes.. it's like comparing the BAD Vinyl to the special edition & so on
well, if we will be getting the newly remixed versions as well as the demo's when the album is released then of course the demo's disc will not be edited one bit.. that's what i love about bad 25 disc 2.. that's my favorite disc the estate have released so far.. it would be wonderful if they released a special edition for the fans.. so we can hear the last parts that Michael worked on when he was here.. demo's will always be better than new mixes.. it's like comparing the BAD Vinyl to the special edition & so on
Dilan
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I'm certain that every post you make on this thread is articulating that you want a demos only disk in a different way.
well, if we will be getting the newly remixed versions as well as the demo's when the album is released then of course the demo's disc will not be edited one bit.. that's what i love about bad 25 disc 2.. that's my favorite disc the estate have released so far.. it would be wonderful if they released a special edition for the fans.. so we can hear the last parts that Michael worked on when he was here.. demo's will always be better than new mixes.. it's like comparing the BAD Vinyl to the special edition & so on
I'm certain that every post you make on this thread is articulating that you want a demos only disk in a different way.
WhoIsIt89
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I think Best Of Joy sounds fine even with the little melodyne, it's one of my favorite songs on that album. And for those saying Autotune wasn't around during the time Dangerous released, it was. The computerized version that we all know today wasn't around. But Vocorder's were, which manually gave off the same effect.
I think Best Of Joy sounds fine even with the little melodyne, it's one of my favorite songs on that album. And for those saying Autotune wasn't around during the time Dangerous released, it was. The computerized version that we all know today wasn't around. But Vocorder's were, which manually gave off the same effect.
HIStory
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Bottom line is Dangerous was not autotuned.
Bottom line is Dangerous was not autotuned.
Billyjeanplxiv
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I barely notice the Melodyning on Best of Joy/HT.
HT is was primarily used in the Westbound greyhound to tinsletown.
Best of Joy had some tempo correction I believe in "hurt you" section of "and nothing can hurt you"
If Michael wasn't happy with the vocal pitch, sure he could correct it when he was alive. He isn't today. And releasing a less than vocally perfect studio album isn't kindly in music today. If they are using a single take of a song, and its off pitch in some places, I believe they should edit it to correct it in pitch.
I barely notice the Melodyning on Best of Joy/HT.
HT is was primarily used in the Westbound greyhound to tinsletown.
Best of Joy had some tempo correction I believe in "hurt you" section of "and nothing can hurt you"
If Michael wasn't happy with the vocal pitch, sure he could correct it when he was alive. He isn't today. And releasing a less than vocally perfect studio album isn't kindly in music today. If they are using a single take of a song, and its off pitch in some places, I believe they should edit it to correct it in pitch.
SoCav
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
^The point is that the use of software like Melodyne introduces a very noticeable artificiality. This is not necessarily a problem, but it is quite contrary to the approach MJ took. As remarked above, one thing that always made MJ's vocals so great is that they were relatively raw. Bruce Swedien was smart enough to leave all the footstomps, breaths and whatever other sound MJ may have been producing on the platform in the final mix. This is one element that gave so much life to his vocals, and why his vocals could touch you at an emotional level like no other.
^The point is that the use of software like Melodyne introduces a very noticeable artificiality. This is not necessarily a problem, but it is quite contrary to the approach MJ took. As remarked above, one thing that always made MJ's vocals so great is that they were relatively raw. Bruce Swedien was smart enough to leave all the footstomps, breaths and whatever other sound MJ may have been producing on the platform in the final mix. This is one element that gave so much life to his vocals, and why his vocals could touch you at an emotional level like no other.
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
It's not like Michael never altered any of his recordings before. The entire Bad album is sped up 6 or 7 percent, which put every song in between a key rather than on a set one. Try buying the sheet music to any song on that album and play along with it on the piano/guitar/any other instrument and see how off it sounds. Not only that, but the pitch on 2000 Watts is lowered (I don't care what Teddy Riley says -- I know Michael could sing low, but it's obvious when it's digitally altered).
Michael did use software to alter pitch, just he didn't want to do so often. If Melodyne is 100 percent necessary for a song to sound perfect I don't mind, just as long as it's used in as little of the song as possible.
It's not like Michael never altered any of his recordings before. The entire Bad album is sped up 6 or 7 percent, which put every song in between a key rather than on a set one. Try buying the sheet music to any song on that album and play along with it on the piano/guitar/any other instrument and see how off it sounds. Not only that, but the pitch on 2000 Watts is lowered (I don't care what Teddy Riley says -- I know Michael could sing low, but it's obvious when it's digitally altered).
Michael did use software to alter pitch, just he didn't want to do so often. If Melodyne is 100 percent necessary for a song to sound perfect I don't mind, just as long as it's used in as little of the song as possible.
SoCav
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
^There's a big difference between pitching an entire vocal take up or down, and using pitch correction software on individual notes. Although the former can sound a little awkward, none of the rawness of the original take is lost.
To me the key is that perfection, musically speaking, is not perfect to the ear. Vocals where all the notes are exactly 100% perfect are devoid of feel. Similarly, a drum beat that is quantized to the extreme sounds dead. Both are examples of 'perfection', but they both sound lifeless.
I do agree with you regarding 2000 watts btw. It sounds pitched down for sure.
^There's a big difference between pitching an entire vocal take up or down, and using pitch correction software on individual notes. Although the former can sound a little awkward, none of the rawness of the original take is lost.
To me the key is that perfection, musically speaking, is not perfect to the ear. Vocals where all the notes are exactly 100% perfect are devoid of feel. Similarly, a drum beat that is quantized to the extreme sounds dead. Both are examples of 'perfection', but they both sound lifeless.
I do agree with you regarding 2000 watts btw. It sounds pitched down for sure.
Billyjeanplxiv
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZsPrIWHA8&list=UUnPcwrDIpbG3VOQdqkaA3FA&feature=c4-overview
4:23 onwards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZsPrIWHA8&list=UUnPcwrDIpbG3VOQdqkaA3FA&feature=c4-overview
4:23 onwards.
WhoIsIt89
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Which I never claimed it was. I just corrected a discrepancy which was being stated by some, that's all.
Which I never claimed it was. I just corrected a discrepancy which was being stated by some, that's all.
KOPV
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Auto-tunes was brought to pop music in 1998, Cher was the first to use it in a commercially accepted song. Melodyne was used primarily after Auto-tunes was used.. So Invincible would have to be the first album Michael really would have the opportunity to use it..
Before the mid 90's there was not a need for auto-tunes, people needed to be vocally talented and/or unique to make it in the industry. mid/late 90's when it was more so who can fit the mold of what sold, that it became more so a necessity on the studio to have...
You listen to a vocal track on some Invincible tracks compare it to earlier tracks you can hear the filtration is different...
Auto-tunes was brought to pop music in 1998, Cher was the first to use it in a commercially accepted song. Melodyne was used primarily after Auto-tunes was used.. So Invincible would have to be the first album Michael really would have the opportunity to use it..
Before the mid 90's there was not a need for auto-tunes, people needed to be vocally talented and/or unique to make it in the industry. mid/late 90's when it was more so who can fit the mold of what sold, that it became more so a necessity on the studio to have...
You listen to a vocal track on some Invincible tracks compare it to earlier tracks you can hear the filtration is different...
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
what i would do for just one teaser from one of the producers who worked with Michael.. would love something to get excited about.. especially if the estate have found a charity to donate to, to get the red one song's.. damn that would be something so heavenly
what i would do for just one teaser from one of the producers who worked with Michael.. would love something to get excited about.. especially if the estate have found a charity to donate to, to get the red one song's.. damn that would be something so heavenly
KOPV
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
There are a large list of charities they can donate too.. Just pick one, they could pick from a list that Michael has given too if they'd like.. Or a new one whatever.. Red One didn't even say "all proceeds", meaning I'm sure there can be a happy median somewhere that they both can agree on.
There are a large list of charities they can donate too.. Just pick one, they could pick from a list that Michael has given too if they'd like.. Or a new one whatever.. Red One didn't even say "all proceeds", meaning I'm sure there can be a happy median somewhere that they both can agree on.
Ashtanga
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Watching this thread... >>>
Watching this thread... >>>
MJsSoldier_1
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Still waiting (im)patiently... Ugh! Lol.
Still waiting (im)patiently... Ugh! Lol.