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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I just have to comment about the mentioning of Invincible being outdated that was said before..

I'll start it off by saying Invincible is not outdated, in fact a lot of the sounds and styling of the composition of the music no there was too ahead of its time for 2001. That's part of the reason why many fans say the album grew on them!! It was too ahead of its time for many people to get it at first. Many concepts that was used for that album as an exploratory route is now being used on majority of popular songs now days..

The route it went from 2001 to 2014 was not exactly the route Michael predicted but you can tell by the sounds being used he was on the right path. Far before anyone else in the U.S market started..

We need to remember Michael is someone that reached world success far before the rise of social media. He studied what was "in" all over the world and understood that 'electronic dance' music/sounds have been big since through the 90's in many parts of Europe and knew the US market will be going that direction too. He tried keeping in many of the sounds that were current then, yet incorporate the basic styling's of that 'electro' style. From my take I think Michael thought the music industry would be influenced by the European dance music and simply incorporate sounds.. (as he did on Invincible) where as in reality the dance music got so big it came here directly from Europe (DJs, musicians etc) where it has the same identical sound..

I am one to believe strongly that if Invincible were to be released somewhere between 2010-2014 would be much more accepted than back in 2001...

Now to future releases... The great thing about Michael Jacksons rhythms in songs, they are timeless - and I am not just saying that from a fan perspective.. You can strip any instrumental and use the vocal rhythm of any song, even use the styling instrumentals of any song and solely update the instrument sounds/soundboards used today it would fit in perfectly.

That's a big reason why DJs love remixing Michael, because it's music that can sound good any time..
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Thread cleaned: For any who wish to discuss Bieber be our guest we have a whole thread in Controversy.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

KOPV said:
I just have to comment about the mentioning of Invincible being outdated that was said before..

I'll start it off by saying Invincible is not outdated, in fact a lot of the sounds and styling of the composition of the music no there was too ahead of its time for 2001. That's part of the reason why many fans say the album grew on them!! It was too ahead of its time for many people to get it at first. Many concepts that was used for that album as an exploratory route is now being used on majority of popular songs now days..

The route it went from 2001 to 2014 was not exactly the route Michael predicted but you can tell by the sounds being used he was on the right path. Far before anyone else in the U.S market started..

We need to remember Michael is someone that reached world success far before the rise of social media. He studied what was "in" all over the world and understood that 'electronic dance' music/sounds have been big since through the 90's in many parts of Europe and knew the US market will be going that direction too. He tried keeping in many of the sounds that were current then, yet incorporate the basic styling's of that 'electro' style. From my take I think Michael thought the music industry would be influenced by the European dance music and simply incorporate sounds.. (as he did on Invincible) where as in reality the dance music got so big it came here directly from Europe (DJs, musicians etc) where it has the same identical sound..

I am one to believe strongly that if Invincible were to be released somewhere between 2010-2014 would be much more accepted than back in 2001...

Now to future releases... The great thing about Michael Jacksons rhythms in songs, they are timeless - and I am not just saying that from a fan perspective.. You can strip any instrumental and use the vocal rhythm of any song, even use the styling instrumentals of any song and solely update the instrument sounds/soundboards used today it would fit in perfectly.

That's a big reason why DJs love remixing Michael, because it's music that can sound good any time..
Click to expand...



While I agree that it was fairly experimental in some respects it does sound dated now.
The best things about Vince (IMO) were Butterflies and was the rap in threatened - that was clever.
The concepts were too repetitive - MJ was repeating himself too much with similar songs of lower quality (IMO).
did we really need another anti-media song (privacy)? No. Leave Me Alone was better.
Did we really need another song trying to emulate Thriller? No (although the rap was cool) No, thriller, Ghosts and Is it Scary were better.
Did we really need Cry and Lost Children? No. Neither added anything to the album. Cry even used the same 'make that change' from Man In the Mirror. what was MJ thinking???? Even worse that he released it as a single.
Songs like Heartbreaker were just a mess of samples - too cluttered.
It wasn't all bad, but it was not one of Mj's greatest moments, and yes the sound is dated now. From the samples used to the song structure. It does sound like a early 2000s album. In fact, as far as song structure goes, most songs sound like they're from a 90s album IMO.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

bobmoo79 said:
Did we really need another song trying to emulate Thriller? No (although the rap was cool) No, thriller, Ghosts and Is it Scary were better.
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Just because Threatened is a horror story too it does not mean it's trying to emulate Thriller. Reminds me of those who think with Ghosts MJ was trying to make another Thriller. Very superficial view which is only based on the fact that both are in the horror genre. Threatened as a song IMO is better than Thriller. There, I said it. Thriller is the Thriller album's weakest track which is only considered iconic because of the video. But whichever one personally prefers they are two very different songs, and by no means MJ was trying to emulate Thriller. Threatened actually has a deeper message and another layer to it than just the horror story surface, while Thriller was just light hearted fun.

Did we really need Cry and Lost Children? No. Neither added anything to the album. Cry even used the same 'make that change' from Man In the Mirror. what was MJ thinking???? Even worse that he released it as a single.
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Are you aware MJ actually protested the release of that song as a single? That's why he did not even appear in the video. I'm not a big fan of the songs R. Kelly wrote for MJ, but for the single choices blame Sony, not MJ.

If you object to the fact that sometimes MJ repeated some of his themes, like "making the world better" songs or songs about disadvantaged children (though Cry wasn't even written by him) then what do you make of artists who don't sing about anything else throughout a whole career than romance and sex? And there are a LOT of them. In fact, in today's music you hardly hear anything else in mainstream music than songs about sex and ego.
 
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Seems like Sony was making some of the worst single choices when it came to Invincible. I wonder if that was intentional or did they really just not have a clue?
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I can agree with some points. Heartbreaker would have benefited from a different mix (bridge is beautiful btw).
Threatend grows on you and is among the best tracks of the album. I guess it's the "Thriller curse" that every song is compared to the Thriller album/considered a remake of the song Thriller if its a song with a horror theme :-/

But I don't consider any of MJs music "dated". If anything they would feel out of place on a best of 80ies/90ies collection imo because they sound different compared to other artists. Of course you can tell they are not produced in 2014 and therefore not "current".

The Lost Children + Speechless are wonderful. They are the heart of the album. It's Michael beeing himself, with a great message + atmosphere, inspiring, full of love and positivity... If the charts think songs like that are not worthy so be it!

As far as I read Sony (Mottola)/MJ had different opinions (single choices, short films and other) and kind of fell out basically. Promotion was cancelled. MJ not beeing in best shape. Allegedly planned Invincible tour cancelled. The rest is history.

Maybe they could include some invincible tracks as b-sides for new singles?
 
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

respect77 said:
If you object to the fact that sometimes MJ repeated some of his themes, like "making the world better" songs or songs about disadvantaged children (though Cry wasn't even written by him) then what do you make of artists who don't sing about anything else throughout a whole career than romance and sex? And there are a LOT of them. In fact, in today's music you hardly hear anything else in mainstream music than songs about sex and ego.
Click to expand...
Very good point. Look at JT's 2 albums in 2013, 99% of all the songs are about the same thing: Sex and Women

Not hating, I love all the songs, but it just says a lot. And that goes for every other artist. It's all about sex and men/women.

Criticizing MJ for doing something else (he had done before) is wrong in my opinion.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Pentum said:
Very good point. Look at JT's 2 albums in 2013, 99% of all the songs are about the same thing: Sex and Women

Not hating, I love all the songs, but it just says a lot. And that goes for every other artist. It's all about sex and men/women.

Criticizing MJ for doing something else (he had done before) is wrong in my opinion.
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Eminem is another example. How many songs as he written about his daughter and wife? (Or X-wife. I'm not sure)
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

analogue said:
Eminem is another example. How many songs as he written about his daughter and wife? (Or X-wife. I'm not sure)
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Three songs. And a couple of others are mentioning them.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Invincible does not sound dated at all! Same with HIStory and even most tracks from Dangerous. Think of Blood on the Dance Floor. There are some amazing dance mixes on it, and the album came out before anyone had heard of David Guetta or Calvin Harris. Well, the later was only around 13 at that time. The History video has the dance remix version, not the original version from the HIStory album. That was in 1997. Michael was way ahead of his time (I don't think the single showed up in the US charts). The US market caught up only recently. Nowadays most acts have brought out some kind of dance tune.
I would also like to point out that not everything nowadays is Eurodance or elctro house. So a new mix of Michael's songs would not necessarily have to be club bangers altogether. Behind the Mask is a new remix and doesn't sound bad at all. I thought the song had been updated beautifully.

Furthermore, Michael did not just sing about saving the world or the children. There are no "save the kids" tracks on Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad and Blood on the Dance Floor. He sang about various things. Ppl just choose to ignore it. We can't have asexual Michael sing about sex *gasp*. He sang about love, longing, sex, betrayal, heartache, groupies, stalkers, money, greed, media hypocrisy, social injustice, environmental issues, etc. If it weren't for Michael, who else would approach the topics of healing the world, the environment and the children? Those were very important messages to Michael. But I think saying that Michael always sang about the same things is unfair. He didn't!
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

My thread, get out with the MJ asexual bullshit. End
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

So today was not the day we got the official statement...
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

There will be some album news soon, maybe not for several month's if I'm honest but at least we know Negotiations with producers are pending. I can only imagine those producers are Will.I.Am & Red One. They have the Neff-U Tracks I'm fairly sure, but we just gotta wait for the time to come. I personally think there will be a nice surprise in the end. Would pass out if they use my fave pic from the Vogue photo sessions for the album cover :)
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Xscape2041 said:
I can agree with some points. Heartbreaker would have benefited from a different mix (bridge is beautiful btw).
Threatend grows on you and is among the best tracks of the album. I guess it's the "Thriller curse" that every song is compared to the Thriller album/considered a remake of the song Thriller if its a song with a horror theme :-/

But I don't consider any of MJs music "dated". If anything they would feel out of place on a best of 80ies/90ies collection imo because they sound different compared to other artists. Of course you can tell they are not produced in 2014 and therefore not "current".

The Lost Children + Speechless are wonderful. They are the heart of the album. It's Michael beeing himself, with a great message + atmosphere, inspiring, full of love and positivity... If the charts think songs like that are not worthy so be it!

As far as I read Sony (Mottola)/MJ had different opinions (single choices, short films and other) and kind of fell out basically. Promotion was cancelled. MJ not beeing in best shape. Allegedly planned Invincible tour cancelled. The rest is history.

Maybe they could include some invincible tracks as b-sides for new singles?
Click to expand...

You know what, I really think Invincible could have benefited with a re-arranged tracklist. Putting Unbreakable, Heartbreaker and Invincible back to back was a bold move and I, personally, feel it was to bold of a move. All the three songs have the same structure, Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus-Bridge-Rap, and they are all sonically challenging and intricate. It is almost as the ears wants a little recess before entering that sphere again. Those three songs are so innovative and amazing that they deserve a lonely spot for themselves so that the listeners really can dissect them and analyze them properly with a fresh pair of ears, rather than them just being "The songs with rap at the end"
 
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

You may be right. That, and an audiophile mastering (no "loudness war" master) would be good.
What about this track order (using all 16 tracks)?
1. Unbreakable
2. 2000 Watts
3. YRMW
4. Butterflies
5. Speechless
6. Invincible
7. Heaven can wait
8. Don't walk away
9. Privacy
10. Cry
11. Break of Dawn
12. Whatever Happens
13. Heartbreaker
14. Lost children
15. You are my life
16. Threatend

Maybe we will get a re-arranged anniversary edition sometime in the future with some bonus tracks.
(like they often do it these days with the deluxe re-release of an album to "milk it" further)

And what's so different in the song structure with "current" songs? The only thing I noticed they tend to have an instrumental/dance section after the chorus before going into the verse again. This could easily be done with the updated versions of the unreleased tracks, and the songs would especially benefit if there are not enough vocals available.
 
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

That looks very interesting! I think i will re-arrange them for myself and give it a test listen. I really like where you put Heartbreaker, between Whatever Happens and Lost Children. The only thing I maybe would change is You are my life in the 15 place and maybe switch it with cry? Ugh don't get me started on the loudness war..


Exactly! If you think about it, this is MJ's M.O The instrumental dance section. Smooth Criminal, Jam, The Way You Make Me Feel. They were always almost always featured in his song and i hope they are included and not omitted. E.g Hollywood Tonight, that talking during the bridge almost killed the overall vibe of the song, imo of course :)

I really hope we get a deluxe re-release of Invincible. It truly deserves it
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Themidwestcowboy said:
That looks very interesting! I think i will re-arrange them for myself and give it a test listen. I really like where you put Heartbreaker, between Whatever Happens and Lost Children. The only thing I maybe would change is You are my life in the 15 place and maybe switch it with cry?
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Thanks :) I just made the tracklist from memory, have to give it a listen myself. Switching Cry/You are my life could also work. But I think Cry on 10. slows the album a bit less down compared to You are my life.

I would also like a vince deluxe edition. However, it's possible there wouldn't be any tracks left for this if they decide to use them for the new album.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I personally would like the albums track list to be similar to the way Michael would put his songs in order on a tour.. Starts off with a few hard hitting songs, slows it down, brings it back up, one song to dip it back down, pick it up, and end with a meaningful awareness song..

It really takes the audience on a journey!
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

KOPV said:
I personally would like the albums track list to be similar to the way Michael would put his songs in order on a tour.. Starts off with a few hard hitting songs, slows it down, brings it back up, one song to dip it back down, pick it up, and end with a meaningful awareness song..

It really takes the audience on a journey!
Click to expand...

be it, possibly anyway.. the same style of song's from IJCSLY to I'll be there.. Michael used the same sequence from 88 BAD Tour to Royal Brunei & i personally thought it worked very well.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

I've been lurking and checking this thread out. All I can say is that the Michael fiasco of 2010 has made me very, very, very reluctant towards any new MJ projects by the Estate. Bad 25 was great, I give them that, no contest. But they can mess this up so easily. I don't want them to mess with Michael's vision and music the way they did with songs like Hollywood Tonight and The Way You Love Me. Increasing the quality, sure, updating some instrumentation, sure, but don't touch the song's structure and essence. That's just wrong.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

^ Glad to see you are still around, MJelboo :)
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

MJsBack said:
31-01-2014, 09:18 AM People of the world ;)!!!.....Just relax ! I KNOW THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTIONS NECESSARY VERY, VERY SOON!!! ;)
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I guess you were wrong then. "very very soon" already passed.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

The Estate should announce the release of the album with one (maybe two) months before the release, I mean, if they announce it a long time before the release I lose the excitement, it shouldn't last too much.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

You know I would really like to see if the estate is going to experiment with production, I would really love to see MJ music with production with the Smeezingtons.. They really have the ear to capture the essence of Michaels musicality very well.. I think Bruno being heavily influenced by Michael and the fact that in his own music people hear reminisce of Michael on many levels, him and his team could really take MJ's sound, update it a way while staying true to the sound Michael wanted.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

One of my biggest fears is that they'll end up putting auto tune all over MJ's vocals for no other reason than the fact that it's considered ''cool'' now a days
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

analogue said:
One of my biggest fears is that they'll end up putting auto tune all over MJ's vocals for no other reason than the fact that it's considered ''cool'' now a days
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there were some auto tune used on dangerous i believe & best of joy... doesn't sound bad at all. to the release date i think they shouldn't announce it until one month before the release, i think when the press release come's and the date is revealed.. we won't have to wait too long.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

^ There's no auto tune on Dangerous. As for Best of Joy having it, it def. bothers me, it gives MJ's voice more of a robotic vibe to it at certain parts of the song. Not good.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Pentum said:
^ There's no auto tune on Dangerous. As for Best of Joy having it, it def. bothers me, it gives MJ's voice more of a robotic vibe to it at certain parts of the song. Not good.
Click to expand...

I agree about Best of Joy. Something is a bit off with the whole sound.
 
Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]

Smooth72 said:
I agree about Best of Joy. Something is a bit off with the whole sound.
Click to expand...

hopefully we can hear the original 2008 demo version in the future..
 
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