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Themidwestcowboy
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
According to what billiejeanpix thinks mike was like, hey let's write down random titles of songs and decide to record them sometime in the future. Since when has michael ever worked like that?
He could have literally recorded 100 of songs between 2005-2009. Why would anyone think otherwise?
According to what billiejeanpix thinks mike was like, hey let's write down random titles of songs and decide to record them sometime in the future. Since when has michael ever worked like that?
He could have literally recorded 100 of songs between 2005-2009. Why would anyone think otherwise?
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
exactly, only people who truly know how many song's there are from post trial are the estate and sony.. of course they won't use all of these at once as they want Michael's legacy to continue for many decades.. which is why i imagine we'll get 1-2 per album
exactly, only people who truly know how many song's there are from post trial are the estate and sony.. of course they won't use all of these at once as they want Michael's legacy to continue for many decades.. which is why i imagine we'll get 1-2 per album
Smooth72
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Negotiating with producers. Don't believe everything you read. I would think this album is done. Not very excited coming on the thread as of late.
Negotiating with producers. Don't believe everything you read. I would think this album is done. Not very excited coming on the thread as of late.
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
information come's from Richard Lecocq. he works with Legacy Recording's france, so i can trust him in what he says.
information come's from Richard Lecocq. he works with Legacy Recording's france, so i can trust him in what he says.
Billyjeanplxiv
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I don't believe im wrong, if half the songs on that list were complete then why were those songs used on the Michael album? Unless Michael Prince's hardrive was full of them....
I don't believe im wrong, if half the songs on that list were complete then why were those songs used on the Michael album? Unless Michael Prince's hardrive was full of them....
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
most of the titles were recorded with renowned Record Producer/Artist Theron Feemster from 2005-2008. They released Best of Joy which is from those sessions, they are post trial recording's which means they have the most sentimental value and will be released over a long period of time along with unreleased song's from invincible etc. IMO
most of the titles were recorded with renowned Record Producer/Artist Theron Feemster from 2005-2008. They released Best of Joy which is from those sessions, they are post trial recording's which means they have the most sentimental value and will be released over a long period of time along with unreleased song's from invincible etc. IMO
rsggamer123
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I can not imagine waiting until the end of the year for this album, think i would go crazy :-(
I can not imagine waiting until the end of the year for this album, think i would go crazy :-(
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
MYTH: Michael recorded hundreds of post-trial songs.
FACT: Between 2005 and 2009, Michael worked on hundreds of songs, both newly written in addition to some old favorites from the vault. The key words in that sentence is worked on. Those of you familiar with Michael's working habits know that he could spend years on a single song and still never finish it (as is the case with "Hollywood Tonight", which was never completed over the nine years he took to work on it). This rings true for most songs, especially those captured on the post-trial sheet. As Joseph Vogel himself has pointed out, a good majority of the songs on the handwritten paper we're familiar with don't have a usable amount of vocals, if they have any vocals at all.
MYTH: The Estate has all of Michael's post-trial material.
FACT: When John McClain and John Branca first were signed in as the Estate executors, the first thing they did was lock down as much unreleased material as they could find. They put out calls to dozens of people who they suspected had unissued, unheard and unknown material. Some were generous enough to give it up free of charge. Others, however, were reluctant and held on to it. As of this writing, there are still people holding out on giving up their music. As far as we know, there could be dozens of post-trial songs out there.
MYTH: The Estate/Sony can simply demand access to material they do not have.
FACT: They cannot. When Michael would record for an album, Sony would often pay for his studio time. Seeing as how technically they paid for these songs to be recorded, they could demand access to them. However, Michael paid for all of his post-trial recording sessions himself, meaning that neither the Estate nor Sony can demand anything from anyone. They can simply ask and hope. It is a similar case with anything recorded at Hayvenhurst or any other home/makeshift studio.
MYTH: Michael recorded hundreds of post-trial songs.
FACT: Between 2005 and 2009, Michael worked on hundreds of songs, both newly written in addition to some old favorites from the vault. The key words in that sentence is worked on. Those of you familiar with Michael's working habits know that he could spend years on a single song and still never finish it (as is the case with "Hollywood Tonight", which was never completed over the nine years he took to work on it). This rings true for most songs, especially those captured on the post-trial sheet. As Joseph Vogel himself has pointed out, a good majority of the songs on the handwritten paper we're familiar with don't have a usable amount of vocals, if they have any vocals at all.
MYTH: The Estate has all of Michael's post-trial material.
FACT: When John McClain and John Branca first were signed in as the Estate executors, the first thing they did was lock down as much unreleased material as they could find. They put out calls to dozens of people who they suspected had unissued, unheard and unknown material. Some were generous enough to give it up free of charge. Others, however, were reluctant and held on to it. As of this writing, there are still people holding out on giving up their music. As far as we know, there could be dozens of post-trial songs out there.
MYTH: The Estate/Sony can simply demand access to material they do not have.
FACT: They cannot. When Michael would record for an album, Sony would often pay for his studio time. Seeing as how technically they paid for these songs to be recorded, they could demand access to them. However, Michael paid for all of his post-trial recording sessions himself, meaning that neither the Estate nor Sony can demand anything from anyone. They can simply ask and hope. It is a similar case with anything recorded at Hayvenhurst or any other home/makeshift studio.
Themidwestcowboy
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Ok then why wasen't more songs from invincible used? Or more songs from history, Or any other era? The same argument can be used for for songs from every era. Just because they weren't used doesn't mean that they are unreleasable.
Ok then why wasen't more songs from invincible used? Or more songs from history, Or any other era? The same argument can be used for for songs from every era. Just because they weren't used doesn't mean that they are unreleasable.
Billyjeanplxiv
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
They wanted to use the most recent songs they had.
Invincible is dated.
History barely has material
New Jack Swing is out.
Sure they used MTS and Behind the Mask. But in all honesty they probably used those tracks out of force and not choice.
Blue Gangster is Invincible era, and I think it sounds horrid. It didn't fit in with the album.
STTR is a 1989 song with an okay updated mix.
DYKWYCA is a Early 90's song from the Dangerous era. DYKWCA message is similar to Hollywoods. Including two songs with the same message on an album isn't smart. That's likely the reason why DYKWYCA wasn't choosen.
They wanted to use the most recent songs they had.
Invincible is dated.
History barely has material
New Jack Swing is out.
Sure they used MTS and Behind the Mask. But in all honesty they probably used those tracks out of force and not choice.
Blue Gangster is Invincible era, and I think it sounds horrid. It didn't fit in with the album.
STTR is a 1989 song with an okay updated mix.
DYKWYCA is a Early 90's song from the Dangerous era. DYKWCA message is similar to Hollywoods. Including two songs with the same message on an album isn't smart. That's likely the reason why DYKWYCA wasn't choosen.
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
i know right, i'd love to hear those song's for sure
but red one said he'd only release his song's if the proceeds went to charity, so you think that's what the negotiations may primarily be about possibly? Katherine could be meeting with Will.I.Am as will said he'd only release his song's with Katherine's blessing, let's hope it comes to be
Would be cool if the producers they negotiate with were Will.I.Am and RedOne
I hope for some surprises on the new album. For example some songs we never even heard the title from.
i know right, i'd love to hear those song's for sure
but red one said he'd only release his song's if the proceeds went to charity, so you think that's what the negotiations may primarily be about possibly? Katherine could be meeting with Will.I.Am as will said he'd only release his song's with Katherine's blessing, let's hope it comes to be HIStory
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Here we go again with this whole "dated" thing. I guess if we do not want "dated" material then the Estate should not release anything any more because most MJ songs do not sound like they were made in 2013-14 (which is not a bad thing IMO) - well, because they weren't.
BTW, you can update songs to sound modern, it's a matter of production mostly (that's why Timbaland was hired I guess). Whether it's worth to update MJ songs to sound modern is another question, since what is cool and modern today will sound dated in 5 years so IMO how MJ left and intended songs is more valuable and interesting from an artistic POV. But based on the fact they hired Timbaland they apparently took the route of updating with the next album. Hope it will turn out well. (And I hope sooner or later we will also hear the originals.)
Here we go again with this whole "dated" thing. I guess if we do not want "dated" material then the Estate should not release anything any more because most MJ songs do not sound like they were made in 2013-14 (which is not a bad thing IMO) - well, because they weren't.
BTW, you can update songs to sound modern, it's a matter of production mostly (that's why Timbaland was hired I guess). Whether it's worth to update MJ songs to sound modern is another question, since what is cool and modern today will sound dated in 5 years so IMO how MJ left and intended songs is more valuable and interesting from an artistic POV. But based on the fact they hired Timbaland they apparently took the route of updating with the next album. Hope it will turn out well. (And I hope sooner or later we will also hear the originals.)
Themidwestcowboy
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Alright then. To the estate of Elvis Presley, Tupac Shakur and Queen, you should all stop releasing songs all together just because the songs doesn't sound contemporary to what's "in" today. By the way what is your definition of "dated" just curious? Do you consider the smash hit from Daft Punk Get Lucky "dated"? Or do you consider Justin Timberlakes Suit & Tie and Take Back The Night "Dated"?
Blue Gangster sounds horrid? Wow okey. Not to knock on your opinion but wow. how could this not fit in an album that had songs that spanned from 82-08? I think we have to differentiate and put songs in three different categories. Songs that
A. sounds dated (In reality it should be songs that derives and are reminiscent about a particular Era or time that is not today.
B. Songs that sounds "in" and are popular and fit the format of what is considered good music today (this in 5 years will be "dated")
C. Songs that doesn't sound like anything of the aforementioned. Here is where i believe Michael's music falls into. Why should they dumb down Michael's music to fit a format that will be forgotten in 5 years? Some will say for radio exposure and great sales. That's why i am okey with the idea of a double sided album with originals & New mixes. Great music is timeless. We should never forget that.
You say things like, "they wanted to use the most recent songs they had", they used MTS and BTM out of "Force and not choice", many songs on the list does "not have any vocals" aren't you seeing what you're doing? This is all purely speculation based on no solid information or concrete Intel. This is a message board and that's the fun, to be able to speculate and I love that. As long as we do not confuse speculation with actual truth and credence. That's just how rumors start and unnecessary ones might i add.
At the end of the day we all want to hear what Michael was working on during the later part of his life and i sincerly hope that he completed enough tracks to hold us over many,many years. Knowing how prolific michael was as an artist, I personally believe that he did just that.
Alright then. To the estate of Elvis Presley, Tupac Shakur and Queen, you should all stop releasing songs all together just because the songs doesn't sound contemporary to what's "in" today. By the way what is your definition of "dated" just curious? Do you consider the smash hit from Daft Punk Get Lucky "dated"? Or do you consider Justin Timberlakes Suit & Tie and Take Back The Night "Dated"?
Blue Gangster sounds horrid? Wow okey. Not to knock on your opinion but wow. how could this not fit in an album that had songs that spanned from 82-08? I think we have to differentiate and put songs in three different categories. Songs that
A. sounds dated (In reality it should be songs that derives and are reminiscent about a particular Era or time that is not today.
B. Songs that sounds "in" and are popular and fit the format of what is considered good music today (this in 5 years will be "dated")
C. Songs that doesn't sound like anything of the aforementioned. Here is where i believe Michael's music falls into. Why should they dumb down Michael's music to fit a format that will be forgotten in 5 years? Some will say for radio exposure and great sales. That's why i am okey with the idea of a double sided album with originals & New mixes. Great music is timeless. We should never forget that.
You say things like, "they wanted to use the most recent songs they had", they used MTS and BTM out of "Force and not choice", many songs on the list does "not have any vocals" aren't you seeing what you're doing? This is all purely speculation based on no solid information or concrete Intel. This is a message board and that's the fun, to be able to speculate and I love that. As long as we do not confuse speculation with actual truth and credence. That's just how rumors start and unnecessary ones might i add.
At the end of the day we all want to hear what Michael was working on during the later part of his life and i sincerly hope that he completed enough tracks to hold us over many,many years. Knowing how prolific michael was as an artist, I personally believe that he did just that.
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Dorian
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Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
i'm more worried about him calling 'Blue Gangsta' horrid.. that's my favorite unreleased song. Michael's vocals are so gangster (no pun intended) love how it's truly a 2001 re invented, re created version of 'Smooth Criminal' can't wait to hear it in CDQ on the new album
i'm more worried about him calling 'Blue Gangsta' horrid.. that's my favorite unreleased song. Michael's vocals are so gangster (no pun intended) love how it's truly a 2001 re invented, re created version of 'Smooth Criminal' can't wait to hear it in CDQ on the new album
SmoothCriminal1995
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but I disagree. We shouldn't be trying to make Michael sound like stuff coming out today, because when Michael was alive he never said, hey on my next album I'm gonna sound just like everyone else, he didn't conform that's what fans and critics loved about his music and talent. He was unique and so was his music.
Everyone is entitled to there opinion, but I disagree. We shouldn't be trying to make Michael sound like stuff coming out today, because when Michael was alive he never said, hey on my next album I'm gonna sound just like everyone else, he didn't conform that's what fans and critics loved about his music and talent. He was unique and so was his music.
HIStoric
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I'd love to hear both updated songs and the songs as Michael last worked on them
Hopefully that "Past, Present and Now" or whatever concept is true - that way everyone wins!
I'd love to hear both updated songs and the songs as Michael last worked on them
Hopefully that "Past, Present and Now" or whatever concept is true - that way everyone wins!
dam2040
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
I think this is just spot on, I couldn't agree more really. I'd love to hear what these producers have worked on, and MJs originals would be incredible too. Hopefully this would mean for a deluxe version, CD1 - Re-works CD2 - Originals.
I'd love to hear both updated songs and the songs as Michael last worked on them
Hopefully that "Past, Present and Now" or whatever concept is true - that way everyone wins!
I think this is just spot on, I couldn't agree more really. I'd love to hear what these producers have worked on, and MJs originals would be incredible too. Hopefully this would mean for a deluxe version, CD1 - Re-works CD2 - Originals.
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
i honestly think if they are gonna do a deluxe edition, it may exclusively be sold on the official website.. they know the general public will have more interest in the updated versions.. i'm mostly wanting the demo's though if i'm honest, it's just something to please everyone i think.. let's wait and see
i honestly think if they are gonna do a deluxe edition, it may exclusively be sold on the official website.. they know the general public will have more interest in the updated versions.. i'm mostly wanting the demo's though if i'm honest, it's just something to please everyone i think.. let's wait and see
Billyjeanplxiv
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Invincible has that 2001 boyband sound to it. Its there, like it or not.
Blue Gangster is a 1998 song. I don't like the downer, western vibe I get from it. I wouldn't mind if it was never released. However, people like it. Just like I don't like Butterflies, but its a fan favorite.
Im not saying tracks that are dated should never be released. However, on a official album. I believe it isn't the place.
New Jack Swing is dated, and it was already on its way out around the time Dangerous was released. It doesn't mean its not good.
These types of tracks belong on Greatest Hits, Ultimate Collections, and Dangerous/History/Invincible 25,50,and 100 anniversary packs.
I also wouldn't get your hopes up on a double album, just in the case it doesn't happen. Because if it doesn't the fan community will get their panties in a bunch.
It always seems the fans expect above and beyond when Michael isn't here. If the Estate makes the most minor of mistakes people seem to boycott. I want a good solid album this time. If we don't get the unremixed tracks "This Time Around" we will get them someday.
I don't believe im speculating, in my opinion, I am being logical with the information I know. Michael was going to work on most of the songs vocals/music in London. He didn't make it there so whats left may not even be complete enough for release.
Invincible has that 2001 boyband sound to it. Its there, like it or not.
Blue Gangster is a 1998 song. I don't like the downer, western vibe I get from it. I wouldn't mind if it was never released. However, people like it. Just like I don't like Butterflies, but its a fan favorite.
Im not saying tracks that are dated should never be released. However, on a official album. I believe it isn't the place.
New Jack Swing is dated, and it was already on its way out around the time Dangerous was released. It doesn't mean its not good.
These types of tracks belong on Greatest Hits, Ultimate Collections, and Dangerous/History/Invincible 25,50,and 100 anniversary packs.
I also wouldn't get your hopes up on a double album, just in the case it doesn't happen. Because if it doesn't the fan community will get their panties in a bunch.
It always seems the fans expect above and beyond when Michael isn't here. If the Estate makes the most minor of mistakes people seem to boycott. I want a good solid album this time. If we don't get the unremixed tracks "This Time Around" we will get them someday.
I don't believe im speculating, in my opinion, I am being logical with the information I know. Michael was going to work on most of the songs vocals/music in London. He didn't make it there so whats left may not even be complete enough for release.
thiron
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
To be honest, I think it's rather unlikely that we will get Will.I.Am or RedOne tracks on this album. Those songs are among the tracks I long to hear the most, so it would be an awesome surprise. But both producers seemed to have been very reluctant to hand over the songs, so I don't expect them to be released in the near future. And I won't be disappointed with this attitude if we don't hear the songs
i know right, i'd love to hear those song's for sure
To be honest, I think it's rather unlikely that we will get Will.I.Am or RedOne tracks on this album. Those songs are among the tracks I long to hear the most, so it would be an awesome surprise. But both producers seemed to have been very reluctant to hand over the songs, so I don't expect them to be released in the near future. And I won't be disappointed with this attitude if we don't hear the songs
Dilan
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
If anything i'd be quite happy if RedOne and William tracks arent on this album since it will be another things to anticipate and make enough material for another album with a more 'current' 00's sound
If anything i'd be quite happy if RedOne and William tracks arent on this album since it will be another things to anticipate and make enough material for another album with a more 'current' 00's sound
dam2040
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
will.i.am is like #2 on the UK this week so if they are trying to get the most modern thing going then surely use what he actually did when he was alive, if the songs are really as good as people make out then we should have the "success" they want (evidently by hiring Timbo they are interested in that)
will.i.am is like #2 on the UK this week so if they are trying to get the most modern thing going then surely use what he actually did when he was alive, if the songs are really as good as people make out then we should have the "success" they want (evidently by hiring Timbo they are interested in that)
AlwaysThere
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
RedOne did say that he would give up his songs if the Estate would donate some of the proceeds to charity. Anything is possible.
RedOne did say that he would give up his songs if the Estate would donate some of the proceeds to charity. Anything is possible.
Dorian
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Bring out "Fall Again" or "Beautiful Girl" and the radios will play the crap out of them.
"Invincible" is BY NO MEANS dated.
Bring out "Fall Again" or "Beautiful Girl" and the radios will play the crap out of them.
"Invincible" is BY NO MEANS dated.
lilseanb
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
Im really excited for this project. After BAD 25 I regained faith that the estate would do the right thing and take their time with projects.
I made myself an EP the other day. I had the track listing as
Slave To The Rhythm
Blue Gangster
We've Had Enough
A Place With No Name
Hold My Hand
It sounded soooo good to listen to it this way and im sure any new album will sound great.
I too HOPE we get originals and remastered, but to be honest as long as Michaels vocals are on their I shall be a happy boy!
Im really excited for this project. After BAD 25 I regained faith that the estate would do the right thing and take their time with projects.
I made myself an EP the other day. I had the track listing as
Slave To The Rhythm
Blue Gangster
We've Had Enough
A Place With No Name
Hold My Hand
It sounded soooo good to listen to it this way and im sure any new album will sound great.
I too HOPE we get originals and remastered, but to be honest as long as Michaels vocals are on their I shall be a happy boy!
Zakk
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Re: News and discussion about upcoming MJ album [Update Pg15]
exactly, would love those song's to be released. let's hope they do give some proceeds to charity.. it would be a nice gesture & very pleasing for all
exactly, would love those song's to be released. let's hope they do give some proceeds to charity.. it would be a nice gesture & very pleasing for all