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Xscape General Discussion

Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

AlwaysThere said:
This is where fans go wrong.

What you're saying here (and in other posts) is essentially, "Michael's versions are going to be better," which is simply ludicrous. Just because Michael himself produced a certain mix does not mean that it's the best version available. There are many posthumous instances where his songs were actually made better by outside sources coming in to add their own flare to it. This Is It is an outstanding, simple '80s pop song with great instrumentation, which is a major step up from the original piano and vocal demo; Hold My Hand sounds full, thick in its final version, with almost every instrument sounding stronger than in the original recording; Hollywood Tonight, as far as instrumentation goes, could be better, but it is no doubt fuller and more complete than the original; Behind the Mask absolutely destroys the demo version in every aspect (baring the "hee-hee-hee" copy/pastes, which do seem a bit out of place); and Much Too Soon has evolved beautifully from the original, boring guitar/vocal demo. Not to mention that the new mix of Xscape has great potential. Of course, this is all in my own opinion.

I will undoubtedly be listening to Michael's original versions, and by no means am I claiming that the new versions are better because, as you've pointed out, I haven't heard them. But I will be giving all of the songs a fair judgment, and I will willingly admit when I feel a new version is stronger than the original. Some fans on here, however, I'm sure won't, because it's "Michael's vision" so it has to be better.
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You are being very, very unfair to Michael's originals when you compare polished, finish versions to demos and declare them superior compared to the demos. That's one way to look at the Michael album. Another is that Michael would have never given out such poor, sloppy production work out of his hands on a finished album. All of his finished albums are WAY superior to the Michael album in terms of quality & production.

This thread is not about the Michael album but you going on about how superior the Michael album is compared to demos is just very unfair to Michael as you are comparing apples and oranges.
 
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Vogue;3985743 said:
Anyone have a subscription to TIME magazine? I'd love to real the whole review.
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it'll on the 04/28 issue
Rock With Michael Jackson (Again)
Katherine St. Asaph @Katstasaph 6:21 AM ET
The King of Pop gets a new sound

Old musicians don’t die or fade away–they just become franchises. Xscape, out May 13, is the latest in the biggest franchise of all: posthumous Michael Jackson albums. Epic Records mogul L.A. Reid worked with Timbaland to curate eight new tracks from Jackson’s vault of unreleased sessions, “contemporizing ” the songs, which were recorded from 1983 to 1999.

To their credit, contemporized doesn’t mean gimmicky; even paint-by-numbers producer team Stargate went subtle, although it helps that Jackson’s voice is too singularly frenzied to be overshadowed by a mix. Consider “Love Never Felt So Good,” an opulent, warm disco-soul number, which evokes Off the Wall as much as dead-on 2014, because these days disco is so trendy it practically comes precontemporized.

This appears in the April 28, 2014 issue of TIME.
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^
... even paint-by-numbers producer team Stargate went subtle ...
LOL music producing by numbers - is it like Eddie's pushed the buttons?
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

What song did Stargate produce on this album?
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

AlwaysThere said:
This is where fans go wrong.

What you're saying here (and in other posts) is essentially, "Michael's versions are going to be better," which is simply ludicrous. Just because Michael himself produced a certain mix does not mean that it's the best version available. There are many posthumous instances where his songs were actually made better by outside sources coming in to add their own flare to it. This Is It is an outstanding, simple '80s pop song with great instrumentation, which is a major step up from the original piano and vocal demo; Hold My Hand sounds full, thick in its final version, with almost every instrument sounding stronger than in the original recording; Hollywood Tonight, as far as instrumentation goes, could be better, but it is no doubt fuller and more complete than the original; Behind the Mask absolutely destroys the demo version in every aspect (baring the "hee-hee-hee" copy/pastes, which do seem a bit out of place); and Much Too Soon has evolved beautifully from the original, boring guitar/vocal demo. Not to mention that the new mix of Xscape has great potential. Of course, this is all in my own opinion.

I will undoubtedly be listening to Michael's original versions, and by no means am I claiming that the new versions are better because, as you've pointed out, I haven't heard them. But I will be giving all of the songs a fair judgment, and I will willingly admit when I feel a new version is stronger than the original. Some fans on here, however, I'm sure won't, because it's "Michael's vision" so it has to be better.
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I think the decision about what sounds better, it's really a personal decision that you come to, and not something that can be definitively and factually decided (if that makes sense?). It's not something scientific where you can say "This is the better version and I can prove it", because you can't (and I don't mean you specifically). It really is all down to personal judgement.

I, for one, even though I haven't heard any of the tracks yet, already prefer the demo versions. Or, let me clear that up, I have a feeling I will prefer the demo versions. That's not to say my mind can't change, I am open-minded about all of this, but in my mind, my heart and my soul, knowing that those versions are how Michael last left them, there's something special in that.

Sorry, I don't know if that made any sense or not, and it probably makes me sound weird and crazy :lol: But it's what I think and what I feel.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

To me the demos and the new versions go hand in hand and I appreciate we will get both. The demos or the versions that Michael heard last are the inspiration to what will be released now.
 
Honestly, I’m curious to hear it ALL for different reasons.

New versions because of all the reviews - I need to hear what producers did with the songs.

Michael’s versions because the leaked versions we’ve heard so far can be not the latest one he left and of course then I will have approximately what Michael’s vision was. Yes, it is important for me.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

marebear said:
To me the demos and the new versions go hand in hand and I appreciate we will get both. The demos or the versions that Michael heard last are the inspiration to what will be released now.
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Yes, I'm excited for both. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people try to pit them against each other and try to act like you can compare demos with finished songs and declare the finished versions superior which are by their very nature more polished and more finished. Obviously Michael would not have released these songs in their demo form, so there is no use of talking about how the final product on the Michael album has fuller instrumentation or whatever. You are comparing apples and oranges - ie. recordings with totally different purposes and functions.

A better comparation would be to compare the quality of the production work on the Michael album to Michael's usual standard on albums and then the Michael album becomes an embarrassment in my opinion. Poor, sloppy production.

Based on everything and the lessons being learnt from the Michael album I do think this album will be a lot better. I'm pretty upbeat and optimistic about it. But again there is no use in declaring finished, polished tracks superior compared to unpolished demos. They have different functions, they are at a different stage in their making. Whoever prefers demos has other perspectives than those who prefer the polished versions. The latter want hits, the former want to see Michael in his raw, creative form. Others can finish his work, but we will never know how he would have finished them. So if you want to hear authentic Michael you listen to the demos while you are well aware that they are raw demos, not finished, polished ready-to-be-released tracks. Often that's exactly the charm of them and that's what makes them special.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I don't see the new versions as simply remixes, more like how some of the songs might've sounded had MJ chose to release them.

For example, listen to the HT demo, as much as I love it, there is no way MJ would've kept the all those midi instruments and tinny drumloops in the final version. If you listen to something like the Dangerous demo, you can hear MJ comes up with the heart of the song, the melodies, harmonies, chords etc and then he enlisted Teddy Riley to take it to the next level.

There is no telling how songs like Xscape, Slave To The Rhythm or Chicago would've sounded had MJ finished them with the producers that he chose... but you can bet they would sound pretty drastically different from the original demo recordings, which is why I think the contemporised versions are worth hearing.

Only thing is, I'm not convinced MJ would've wanted to work with Timbaland. Tim has been a pretty big presence in R&B/Hip-Hop circles since the mid-90s and MJ never expressed a desire to collaborate or work with him while he was alive. I personally rate Tim over will.i.am or Rodney Jerkins, its just that it would be a more authentic representation of the material for the estate to use only producers they knew MJ would've chosen to work with.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Very pleased to hear D'Angelo's name in the project :)
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

rsggamer123 said:
I really feel like may 5th/6th is just too close to the album release date. How are they going to maintain hype for the album until then? Talk about the album has already slowed down considerably. IMO they should of released the single a few weeks prior to the album.
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Sephiroth820 said:
The single on May 5 it's a bad idea, they need to build hype for new MJ music. Radio station should play single 2-3 weeks before album release.

If they want release single later than give us some promotional song :)
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That's the problem though - will radios keep the single in heavy rotation after the first week? I think Sony have a deal with Clear Channel for the first week (as many other artists/labels do), but after that there's no guarantee the heavy rotation will continue. Add the fact that radios barely play any veteran artists these days.

I believe that's why they want to release the single a week before the album - to make sure the song is in heavy rotation when the album drops, because after that there's no telling what will happen. Of course fingers crossed radios will like the song and keep playing it, but there's no guarantee.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Originals + new, updated versions = more to love :D
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I dont thing AlwaysThere is saying we should compare Michaels UNFINISHED recordings to the FINISHED recordings. She/He is just saying that we shouldnt
a) immediately write off the new versions just cos they aren't Michael's touches or
b) immediately brand Michael's originals as the superior version just cos its Michael's initial vision

I think her/his point is that we need to keep an open mind no matter what and then decide which I agree with..
We may be more excited about the new/old versions but its impossible to say which one you like better without giving them both a chance
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

respect77 said:
You are being very, very unfair to Michael's originals when you compare polished, finish versions to demos and declare them superior compared to the demos. That's one way to look at the Michael album. Another is that Michael would have never given out such poor, sloppy production work out of his hands on a finished album. All of his finished albums are WAY superior to the Michael album in terms of quality & production.

This thread is not about the Michael album but you going on about how superior the Michael album is compared to demos is just very unfair to Michael as you are comparing apples and oranges.
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But you're also being unfair. Michael has passed away; therefore, no one can complete an album and properly represent his vision. It's simply impossible. Even Xscape, as much as fans love it, is in a way disrespectful to him, as he didn't like to offer his unfinished songs to the public. We can't rightfully compare these posthumous releases to anything he's done in his lifetime, because as you said, it would be like comparing apples and oranges. But I digress.

I'm not comparing the Michael album to this new album; I'm simply pointing out instances where a reproduced version of a song is superior to the original in terms of musicality. The Michael album is an embarrassment, that's beyond argumentative.

Of course the original demos will be special, because they're aesthetically what Michael himself had left behind. But it isn't wrong to say that the reproduced versions might be better.

0o0jackie0o0 said:
I dont thing AlwaysThere is saying we should compare Michaels UNFINISHED recordings to the FINISHED recordings. She/He is just saying that we shouldnt
a) immediately write off the new versions just cos they aren't Michael's touches or
b) immediately brand Michael's originals as the superior version just cos its Michael's initial vision

I think her/his point is that we need to keep an open mind no matter what and then decide which I agree with..
We may be more excited about the new/old versions but its impossible to say which one you like better without giving them both a chance
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Thank you very much; this is exactly what I'm trying to get across.

It's he, by the way ;)
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

i ask myself if theres a rock song with aggressive voice (a la Beat it, Dirty Diana, Give in To Me, Another Day...) on the Album. Cause no review mentioned smth like this.

i thought she was lovin me(now chicago) is some rock type song but dont know...

What do u think?
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

AlwaysThere said:
Michael has passed away; therefore, no one can complete an album and properly represent his vision. It's simply impossible.
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imo there's one thing that could "work" in some way: for example take Price of Fame, replace its midi instruments with real ones and mix the song the same way the demo was mixed.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

AlwaysThere said:
But you're also being unfair. Michael has passed away; therefore, no one can complete an album and properly represent his vision. It's simply impossible. Even Xscape, as much as fans love it, is in a way disrespectful to him, as he didn't like to offer his unfinished songs to the public. We can't rightfully compare these posthumous releases to anything he's done in his lifetime, because as you said, it would be like comparing apples and oranges. But I digress.
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Where did I imply that I expected these producers to represent Michael's vision? My point is that it's unfair to keep bringing up how finished, polished tracks have better instrumentations etc. than demos which weren't meant to be released in that form. It's a perfectly legit opinion if someone prefers demos to the finish products on these posthumus albums. Maybe that person's perspective simply differs from yours. You want polished productions, full instrumentations etc, but someone who prefers demos may not look for that but rather for authenticity. So let those who prefer demos prefer them. There is nothing wrong with that. It's just a different perspective to yours.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Fake.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Thanks, I thought so. I saw it else where with the title She Was Loving Me, but we know the lyrics are different.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I never stated in my posts Michael's versions are superior for being his vision. I just said it's nonsensical preferring the new versions over the originals without having the album. Just the fans who had the chance to go to the listening parties could say a more accurate opinion why they may like more the originals or the new versions better. Otherwise besides nonsensical, it's premature and not fair. Once we have listened to the album we can say "the new ones are better than because of this and that," "or the originals are better than because of this and that."
 
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Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

serendipity said:
Thanks, I thought so. I saw it else where with the title She Was Loving Me, but we know the lyrics are different.
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And the voice, hopefully. :lol:
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Im confused... SWLM & CHICAGO.... they aren't or are the same song?! Im sure i've read at least 2 reviews stating they are different, yet people on here STILL stating they are the same?!

JUST RELEASE IT ALREADY!!!!
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

Metin Jackson said:
i ask myself if theres a rock song with aggressive voice (a la Beat it, Dirty Diana, Give in To Me, Another Day...) on the Album. Cause no review mentioned smth like this.

i thought she was lovin me(now chicago) is some rock type song but dont know...

What do u think?
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Yeah, doesn't seem like one of the contemporized versions is a rock song. Maybe the original version? Who knows. Anyway, I really really hope there are some rock songs left in the vault. The Estate registered two interesting titles, "Rocker" and "Bang Your Head". Would be awesome if these demos had enough vocals to be released.
I wish MJ had recorded/finished more than the "big three", really diggin' his rock tracks.
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

It was named Chicago (She Was Loving Me) by the Estate and Timbaland. Loving You is a completely different one from Chicago (SWLM).
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

I'm sure I read either earlier in the thread or maybe somewhere else that the 2 videos included the 'making of' film along with a short film 'created by Michael'

Any more info on this yet? Xx
 
Re: News and discussion about new MJ album : Xscape, May 13, 2014.

knigofpop said:
I'm sure I read either earlier in the thread or maybe somewhere else that the 2 videos included the 'making of' film along with a short film 'created by Michael'

Any more info on this yet? Xx
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A short film created by Michael? Where did you read this? I'm curious now, lol! Let's see what happens.. Will be interesting if this is indeed correct!
 
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