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Why MJ is not touring the US?

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Bee1983 said:
Like Arabian Knight stated that he met some really great people from the USA. Those people are there.
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And this is not just based on meetings or brief relations; I actually have two of my cousins married to American ladies, also some of my friends got married in US. We are very close to them and they are wonderful people. Additional a lot of my family members studied in universities in the USA.
 
Yes, obviously the media is influential. But it has been said in this thread that MJ isn't so crazy about his country anymore because of the media and that MJ doesn't need the USA and all that. Me and Bee are disagree with this. MJ knows that the media doesn't reflect the people.

And I'm not saying FANS, i'm saying PEOPLE. The PEOPLE don't hate mj. The PEOPLE in general, people who may not be fans of MJ...a majority of them could care less about MJ and/or respect MJ as a great artist.

And the media, and this another reason why MJ wouldn't let the media influence his views on his country, flip flops! They move with the tides. Of course in the PAST the media was harsh, he was going through a sensational scandal (this isn't excusing them though). When MJ works the media to benefit HIM, they are positive towards him...like they are now. But the media is going to eat up whatever is fed to them. When scandal is fed to them, they'll eat it up. When it's beneficial to suck up to people, they will suck up. (look at the flip flop attitude being attributed to obama...at first he's a saint, next he's a off-the-charts racial radical. )

Also...u can't pretend and say that brit tabloids and media isn't harsh as well when it suits them. Like i said, they created some slanderous things in their own right, outside of us media.
 
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J5master said:
Also...u can't pretend and say that brit tabloids and media isn't harsh as well when it suits them. Like i said, they created some slanderous things in their own right, outside of us media.
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true (unfortunately), but it has started in his native country, or am I wrong?
it was 'easier' to be harsh for the media outside the US with a kind of "permission' from his native land's 'journalists'

that's how I see it
 
J5master said:
Yes, obviously the media is influential. But it has been said in this thread that MJ isn't so crazy about his country anymore because of the media and that MJ doesn't need the USA and all that. Me and Bee are disagree with this. MJ knows that the media doesn't reflect the people.

And I'm not saying FANS, i'm saying PEOPLE. The PEOPLE don't hate mj. The PEOPLE in general, people who may not be fans of MJ...a majority of them could care less about MJ and/or respect MJ as a great artist.

And the media, and this another reason why MJ wouldn't let the media influence his views on his country, flip flops! They move with the tides. Of course in the PAST the media was harsh, he was going through a sensational scandal (this isn't excusing them though). When MJ works the media to benefit HIM, they are positive towards him...like they are now. But the media is going to eat up whatever is fed to them. When scandal is fed to them, they'll eat it up. When it's beneficial to suck up to people, they will suck up. (look at the flip flop attitude being attributed to obama...at first he's a saint, next he's a off-the-charts racial radical. )

Also...u can't pretend and say that brit tabloids and media isn't harsh as well when it suits them. Like i said, they created some slanderous things in their own right, outside of us media.
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i never said that media around the world didn't have harsh things to say. again, you are suggesting i said something that i didn't say. but i did say that the usa lead the way. and while MJ may have learned to recover and differentiate, that doesn't mean he was not affected by the intensity of what happened, due to usa media. i'm saying it was much more intense here. you're bringing up something that has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. you keep bringing up how things are NOW. i have never addressed how things are now, because that wasn't the original subject of this thread. i know how things are now. i know how t25 is doing. i was talking to arabian knight, and others about the PAST. the nineties. although, i can easily still wonder about the recent grammies...i was talking about the past.

if anything..MJ and sony's strategy for now, circumvents what happened at the grammys...whatever it was. i know how to differentiate. and that's what i've been doing the entire time in this entire thread. and as far as not needing the usa..it's irrelevant because the fans always loved him here...but one country cannot stop his success when there is an entire world out there. He has spent a great deal of time away from the usa, and is not dead career wise, now that he's back.
 
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cinderella said:
true (unfortunately), but it has started in his native country, or am I wrong?
it was 'easier' to be harsh for the media outside the US with a kind of "permission' from his native land's 'journalists'

that's how I see it
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yes...i do agree with the permission thing. although there is no excuse for any media being harsh to him, anywhere in the world..

it's sorta like the race thing that happened here in the usa....there where people who were white who thought they could go after MJ, because..as they said, in the usa media, 'blacks do it, so why can't we?' and, it was true, there were blacks in the media that attacked him for all kinds of unnecessary extemporaneous reasons. (i'm making a comparison..i'm not going off topic for anyone who says i am. ...not referring to you, cinderella, on my last sentence)
 
vncwilliam said:
yes...i do agree with the permission thing. although there is no excuse for any media being harsh to him, anywhere in the world..

it's sorta like the race thing that happened here in the usa....there where people who were white who thought they could go after MJ, because..as they said, in the usa media, 'blacks do it, so why can't we?' and, it was true, there were blacks in the media that attacked him for all kinds of unnecessary extemporaneous reasons. (i'm making a comparison..i'm not going off topic for anyone who says i am. ...not referring to you, cinderella, on my last sentence)
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of course there isn't

don't worry, I exactly understand what you are saying in here
( and thanks)
regards, cinderella
 
If Mj not needing the USA is irrelevant , why did u say it?

And I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the PAST and why, in the PAST..the media FLIP FLOPS. If you don't like the T25 example...lets say the atmosphere and the media after the oprah interview...it was pretty dang positive. of course a scandal hit after that, and it was negative...they ran with it. When MJ was back on his feet, and the History PR train was rolling, it was positive...in the beginning, when the INvincible PR train was rolling, it was mostly positive....then another scandal hit, and it was negative. In the past...the media flip flops where ever the wind blows.

And the grammys never liked MJ LOL...even before the scandal....he got duped during the 88 grammys. That has nothing to do with America anyways...there are a LOT of great artists that get duped by the grammys.

but one country cannot stop his success
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when u say things like that it makes u sound like you're generalizing. The country isn't trying to stop his success. It's comments like these that I'm going after. THe media isn't really trying to stop his success, the media is just trying to get as much money as they can with crazy sensationalize stories...and why do other countries copy what usa media is doing? because THOSE stories are what gets them the money and THEY recognize they are sensational and will make money...so just because American media MAY lead the pack doesn't mean other media is innocent. Thats what i'm saying. Greed is universal.

Also we gotta recognize, it's not just his hardcore fans that make up his market. There are people that just enjoy listening to the man's music. And as long as the had continued to buy that music (which they HAVE DONE --past tense)...i really don't see the point in saying that...well mj can do without the country, although we recognize his FANS STILL LOVE HIM, mj doesn't need that country. It's not just the fans...it's the people in general. The general public. And the general public is hungry for MJ music just like the rest of the world.

He has spent a great deal of time away from the usa, and is not dead career wise, now that he's back.
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But he's been dead to the WORLD career wise, not just in the USA lol.

What you did say is that MJ isn't so crazy or "big" about America because of the american media and what "they" did to him...and I'm saying that's not necessarily true. Thats what I'm responding to. I believe MJ can separate the media from it's people.
 
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I think Michael Jackson is hurt by the treatment he goit from his own country. Other countries might treat him badly, but at least he should be able to feel safe in his own country. I do not feel that he feels safe at home. I don't know why anyone should even think that when we have witnessed what hAS BEEN GOING on.
Furthermore both Kathrine Jackson and Elizabeth Taylor have spoken about this. Liz on larry king said she wouldn't bame him if he did not return home. This is not bashing the country, this is an honest observation. It is also true that had the AMERICAN MEDIA DID NOT BEHAVE with venom towards MJ the rest of the world may not have joined in.
 
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Datsymay,

I also believe that MJ reacts emotionally towards some events and would lean towards his happy places wherever they are, he have mentioned he loves Japan and he stressed on their loyalty, this is generalization as well, but why there is a special version of Thriller 25 with additional single "Got The Hots" only for Japan?
 
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MJ wants sucess..

Of course he knows where he sells most, where he will have the most sucess..

This would either do 1 or both things..

1) Have him aim at places that will bring him more profit
2) Try to work hard in ways to win the other areas over

I personally think he'll do a little both..

We will see the percentage of U.S. sales going up with this next album. this alone could gear up more MJ stuff in the area
 
Datsymay said:
I think Michael Jackson is hurt by the treatment he goit from his own country. Other countries might treat him badly, but at least he should be able to feel safe in his own country. I do not feel that he feels safe at home. I don't know why anyone should even think that when we have witnessed what hAS BEEN GOING on.
Furthermore both Kathrine Jackson and Elizabeth Taylor have spoken about this. Liz on larry king said she wouldn't bame him if he did not return home. This is not bashing the country, this is an honest observation. It is also true that had the AMERICAN MEDIA DID NOT BEHAVE with venom towards MJ the rest of the world may not have joined in.
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i'sn't it sad but true?
 
I'm sorry but it's not safe to say that if America never started, the rest of the world wouldn't have joined in...press everywhere else, especially in Europe, is just as greedy. In the past they have been just as thirsty for a piece of MJ as the USA has.

MJ may have been hurt, but again I think he knows how to separate what happened to him (media's greed, da with a vendetta, grifter families) from the nature of the country and what THEY think of him as a whole.

And like Bee said earlier, the SAME country that supposedly treated him wrong (and i say 'supposedly' cuz it really isn't the country that did that) is the SAME country that brought him out. We are so quick to put emphasis on the negative things that the positive becomes non-existent.
 
Arabian Knight said:
Datsymay,

I also believe that MJ reacts emotionally towards some events and would lean towards his happy places wherever they are, he have mentioned he loves Japan and he stressed on their loyalty, this is generalization as well, but why there is a special version of Thriller 25 with a new single for the Japanese market?
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Yes, I do indeed think so too. That is human nature. It must be nice to feel the love that he felt in Japan even when he feels so unloved at home.
Look at the fiasco about Neverland., To think you have worked all your life to make others happy and you create a place to be safe and to help the sick and to watch the media salivate over the prospect of you losing your home must be heartbreaking. It might not be the whole country, but when you are going through it, it sure does feel like the whole country.
 
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Well if people want to go on that route...(mj did this for this country, why didn't he do that for that country)...MJ's first real interview since the trial was for an American magazine. That really has no significance, but neither does Got The Hots being on Japan's version of T25
 
J5master said:
I'm sorry but it's not safe to say that if America never started, the rest of the world wouldn't have joined in...press everywhere else, especially in Europe, is just as greedy. In the past they have been just as thirsty for a piece of MJ as the USA has.
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My intension is not to say it all begins in US, but like I said before; US media is in a very powerful position and when something is said there the rest of the world will follow that. From my experience I can only tell what happens here in Finland.. So everytime when there's something about Michael in news or tabloids, whether it's good or bad it's originally from US, you can see that from the sources.
 
Reeta said:
My intension is not to say it all begins in US, but like I said before; US media is in a very powerful position and when something is said there the rest of the world will follow that. From my experience I can only tell what happens here in Finland.. So everytime when there's something about Michael in news or tabloids, whether it's good or bad it's originally from US, you can see that from the sources.
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exactly , what I was saying too...the same thing is in here in Poland...
the world is becoming a global village and whether we want it or not 'The USA make the world go around'
 
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I don't see the reason for fighting..

With Michael the european and American media feed off each other..

European - Has started some of the biggest and degrading stories about Michael. All in 80's,90's,00's.. Much of the rumors about Michael started there.

United States - U.S. media became an industry on it's own... They took those stories and presented them in a way that there is no way looking away from it. It became the 'TRUTH' that people thought of Michael.. Have banned 'pro-Jackson' material from many aspects.


So both of them go hand in hand..

It's also a cycle.. European tabloides make up a story.. U.S. tabloides publish them in ways as TRUTH, like TV NEWS.. European media picks up on United States TV NEWS, and reports it aswell.. Once they report it, it goes back to more and more sources. UNTILL thousands of places are saying simular twisted stories..


The part that makes U.S. media worse when it comes to Michael, is not making up the stories.. Is not saying the stories.. it's working MUCH, MUCH harder to make the stories become the TRUTH.. Hiding facts, changing, editing, twisting.. They basically created an empire on false stories about Michael..


I'm not saying All stories are from Europe. and not saying all twisting comes from U.S. but in major ways, those are the main roles they played
 
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What I think is that there are many opinions expecting how Michael should react or how he should think or what he should do and most importantly how he should feel and that is an area no one knows.

I think we can all think of a very important element Datsymay mentioned which is: “Human Nature”.

It’s Michael’s reaction which would make sense to all of us. Michael maybe not be very rational about the decision but more emotional and very sensitive in “nature” which may drive him to leave the country because of “bad experience”, as a normal person this would be very normal. I mentioned in the beginning an example when someone goes through a bad experience traveling to a certain country may not return again, this is a normal reaction, it is natural especially if you are very sensitive and emotional. So maybe it is not correct to generalize as J5master rationally described the right position of this situation, but when you are hurt you are not always rational. Some people when they are hurt they don’t take rational decisions or think rationally so you know if you are in MJ’s shoes you will only be able to know if he decided not to tour because of the hurt he went through and this is largely very possible if you observe his personality. You can only expect Michael to be “human”.
 
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I don't see the reason for fighting..

With Michael the european and American media feed off each other..

European - Has started some of the biggest and degrading stories about Michael. All in 80's,90's,00's

United States - U.S. media became an industry on it's own... They took those stories and presented them in a way that there is no way looking away from it. It became the 'TRUTH' that people thought of Michael.. Have banned 'pro-Jackson' material from many aspects.


So both of them go hand in hand..

It's also a cycle.. European tabloides make up a story.. U.S. tabloides publish them in ways as TRUTH, like TV NEWS.. European media picks up on United States TV NEWS, and reports it aswell.. Once they report it, it goes back to more and more sources. UNTILL thousands of places are saying simular twisted stories..


The part that makes U.S. media worse when it comes to Michael, is not making up the stories.. Is not saying the stories.. it's working MUCH, MUCH harder to make the stories become the TRUTH.. Hiding facts, changing, editing, twisting.. They basically created an empire on false stories about Michael..
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^^ thats what im saying. look i can concede that the USA media is 'worse' in some aspects. But the main thing is...I do not think that MJ himself, is avoiding the USA, or has avoided the USA rather, in regards to his career...because he has a distaste for the country itself or that he doesn't think the people like his music or that they won't buy it (because they hate him or something).

I am also sure that MJ may have generalized at some point...MAYBE thats why he left America for Bahrain (but it could be just as likely that he need to get away somewhere...far far away to clear his head??). But I do think that after a while mJ is rational and wise enough to know that it's not the country itself. I think during the trial he knows that besides the crazy minority that is pumped up by the crazy press, the majority of the people still appreciate him. I think that has been shown, if anything, during the support he received during the trial. It's like MJ saying "it's NOT SONY that i dislike, it's tommy matola"...or something to that effect...I think he has sense enough to know who has wronged him and who hasn't.
 
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I think thopugh KOPV. When these things happen in your own home it is far worse because with overseas at least you can go home. but if you feel attacked in your own country, where can you go? That is the major difference. Also, had someone called out and sad stop that, I don't think foreign medias would attack him if they didn't feel that it was ok to do so. They must feel that he is a tarfget in his own country, so there would be no consequence. I have always felt that the government should act more to protect the integrity of their legends and icons from vicious attacks from the media.
 
No they feel he's a target because he's a larger than life controversial, intriguing celebrity. MJ is not the only one who gets hounded, who is not safe, ALL over the world because of their CELEBRITY. MJ would be the first to name off Princess Di as a victim of that.
 
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J5master said:
No they feel he's a target because he's a larger than life controversial, intriguing celebrity. MJ is not the only one who gets hounded, who is not safe, ALL over the world because of their CELEBRITY. MJ would be the first to name off Princess Di as a victim of that.
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Michael Jackson WAS a target. No celebrity has been hounded like him. Unfortunately it was dangerous for him because they tried to put him in jail and if they could have got away with it they may have even done worse. Thye payed people to set him up for god sake.
The kind of attention MJ recieved was very life threatening to say the least. They tried to destroy him and to put out everything he had.
 
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"they" meaning specific people dats lol Not the country and not even the media. the media did not try to railroad him to jail. The media took the ball and ran 30 miles with it, sure, and they did what would have given them the most sensation and the most money.

When it comes to the media, like i said, MJ uses Princess Di as an example of what happens when the paps and media go too far. Not just US media...but media in general.
 
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^^ the media did not railroad him to jail but they sure as hell rairoaded people into believing he SHOULD BE IN JAIL..

:mad:
 
yeah that's true. Because that's the most sensationalist thing to do.

And MJ knows the media is gonna do what gives them the most green. I really do think he knows that. I think he knows that the media does not reflect what the people think.
 
J5master said:
"they" meaning specific people dats lol Not the country and not even the media. the media did not try to railroad him to jail. The media took the ball and ran 30 miles with it, sure, and they did what would have given them the most sensation and the most money.

When it comes to the media, like i said, MJ uses Princess Di as an example of what happens when the paps and media go too far. Not just US media...but media in general.
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Neitther You nor Iknow who 'THEY are. I don't even know if Michael jackson knows. All I know is that Tom Sneddon did not work alone in doing what he did. he had back up from further on. The media is very powerful and they were all in Sneddons corner. They did their very best to help out Sneddon and even sneddon alluded to that in his conference. Big money people were behind the MJ lynching. Princess Di has nothing to do with this. MJ was hated Di was loved.
If you think the media was not a part of this set up then think again.
The media tried to pay a father to make claims on MJ. It was the media who started the brainwashing about MJ and children , It was the media that provided the atmostphere in which Sneddon was able to do his job. Bashire was media too.
 
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The media is also used to influence and control public opinions, the media has a very powerful impact.
 
Arabian Knight said:
The media is also used to influence and control public opinions, the media has a very powerful impact.
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Absolutely. It was also the media that kept the public from hearing the truth about the case, and they are the ones who are still pushing those nasty documentaries and still writng insulting articles about MJ. They also refuse to publish positive books about the man.:mello:
 
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And the only reason the media would be accomplices in that is if it gives them $. And the fact that they swing back so easy without a care back to MJ's side after being accomplices in nearly ruining his life shows the nature of the media.

Turns out that Sneddon DIDN'T do the job did he? thats the thing. Those same citizens...who were subjected to us media for 20 years, who had little to no filters as to what the media was saying throughout the trial...set MJ free of that mess. SEVERAL of them really FELT for MJ as a person, and were FANS, in every sense of the word. And the couple of haters out of twelve, of course had their own agendas for a book deal and had $ $ $ in sight. So sneddon nor the media (if you wanna say that the media was in on all of it).. couldn't succeed because the PEOPLE can filter through the bs. MJ's freedom is a testimony to that. And I have faith MJ sees this as well...in fact i know he does. Because if he really felt that the media was for his blood, and that people in general was for his blood, he would NOT be in vegas right now, sure of that. lol

And he would not give the American media/press the time of day. But he does.
 
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