Why MJ is not touring the US?

[J5master]

OK... my last post (for the time being) lol
oh, they do care.... yeah it's essential it's about "Thriller" and any other album of his
they have their hidden agenda

They care about thriller only in the essence of it being the work of "old" Michael jackson. But when u have the "new" MJ...seemingly rehashing it after a image breaking trial....like i said, it's easy for them if they wanted to.

 

[KOPV]

ahhhhhh the madness!! lol!

 

[jaydom7]

I still don't understand why it was re-released again. I don't see how it will help Michael in the long run

 

[144000]

If Mj not needing the USA is irrelevant , why did u say it?

And I'm not talking about now, I'm talking about the PAST and why, in the PAST..the media FLIP FLOPS. If you don't like the T25 example...lets say the atmosphere and the media after the oprah interview...it was pretty dang positive. of course a scandal hit after that, and it was negative...they ran with it. When MJ was back on his feet, and the History PR train was rolling, it was positive...in the beginning, when the INvincible PR train was rolling, it was mostly positive....then another scandal hit, and it was negative. In the past...the media flip flops where ever the wind blows.

And the grammys never liked MJ LOL...even before the scandal....he got duped during the 88 grammys. That has nothing to do with America anyways...there are a LOT of great artists that get duped by the grammys.

when u say things like that it makes u sound like you're generalizing. The country isn't trying to stop his success. It's comments like these that I'm going after. THe media isn't really trying to stop his success, the media is just trying to get as much money as they can with crazy sensationalize stories...and why do other countries copy what usa media is doing? because THOSE stories are what gets them the money and THEY recognize they are sensational and will make money...so just because American media MAY lead the pack doesn't mean other media is innocent. Thats what i'm saying. Greed is universal.

Also we gotta recognize, it's not just his hardcore fans that make up his market. There are people that just enjoy listening to the man's music. And as long as the had continued to buy that music (which they HAVE DONE --past tense)...i really don't see the point in saying that...well mj can do without the country, although we recognize his FANS STILL LOVE HIM, mj doesn't need that country. It's not just the fans...it's the people in general. The general public. And the general public is hungry for MJ music just like the rest of the world.

But he's been dead to the WORLD career wise, not just in the USA lol.

What you did say is that MJ isn't so crazy or "big" about America because of the american media and what "they" did to him...and I'm saying that's not necessarily true. Thats what I'm responding to. I believe MJ can separate the media from it's people.

he has not been dead to the world. he's been appearing on uk charts for years during that time.

and MJ did leave the usa..and he did say he thought there was a conspiracy and his father believed it too...i don't know why you keep repeating. there was no flip flop in those days...ever since he looked a little different, the media took off with it...they made pools on his marriage to Lisa Marie...they looked for whatever they could find to get him. and they did NOT play his music for a long time...that's what i call trying to sabotage. now there are times where you say in your posts that america lead the way..media wise. the fact is, they did. now i know you don't want to believe the media would try and sabotage him..but..they did. like i said..i felt like a pariah trying to get stations to play his music during those years...and i know i'm not the only one. so, it wasn't just about the usamedia trying to make money...they were trying to destroy him. i lived through those years..and i know this is true. now i'm a staunch supporter of the usa..but i'm not blind, nor deaf. it felt like oppression against MJ at that time.

and as far as the grammys..naa.. they were singling out mJ. they weren't doing this to many artists. although at the 88 grammys....i don't know what you're talking about...since that was the year he performed on there. this year's grammys though..i've never heard of an artist that big, getting ignored like that, since they decided to decide partially on popularity AND music merit, instead of what they thought was just the merit of the music.

that comparison that you were making between what happened to Michael and what's happening with Obama...that's not warranted. i'm watching that race..if anything..they may be picking at Obama a little, but there's a lot more love for Obama now then there was for Michael back then, in this country's media.

i mean, only now, we are trying to get over that 'it's not cool to love Michael Jackson vibe that was in the air over those years. but if i wanted to call in and talk about my support for Obama, i feel absolutely NO oppression in the idea of doing so. i know i'd hear positive words. the atmosphere for MJ back then was NOTHING like that.

indeed...the rest of the world was into Mj, mediawise, cus i'm still recovering from all the commercials that i've seen on youtube that he made in other countries...and not here during those years..and...GHosts..i remember there was supposed to be a release of that in theatres in a city in america that i lived in before i moved to los angeles..but they refused to play it. nothing like when they used to play thriller in the theatres, in earlier years.

now i'm objective about this is i can be. if you check some of the other threads around here, you'll see me giving props to the current usa media..and members who are giving props to MJ...for instance...the thread about ryan seacrest..and the one about desperate housewives. but just as i do now...i'll tell it like it is about how it was, then.

 

[J5master]

I don't think what you're saying is objective if u don't think the media was EVER positive between the Bad era and now (now that i know ur thinking of that long of a time period. At first i thought u were just talking about the allegations up til now). But okay.

And i didn't say the media didn't try to sabatoge him. They did. Thats not my point. My point is that just because the media tried, doesn't mean they did. And when they tried, it always benefited THEM.

And you lived through WHAT years? I lived through the most "stagnant" years of being a MJ fan...and I never had a problem getting MJ played on urban radio stations where I lived. I live in Chicago and for as long as I remember I've always heard MJ on the radio. YANA, Scream, and Remember The Time were pretty much ALL i've heard on the radio :lol: And those ain't even from OTW or Thriller.

When Invincible came out there was MAD love for MJ on radio stations. EVERY DJ got their hands on YRMW and I had no problem hearing it on radio. Butterflies did even BETTER. I didn't even bother trying to request it...they played it so much.

Yes and the year MJ performed at the Grammys he got duped for his rightfully earned grammys for BAD. The second biggest selling album of all time. And the grammys have fell off a lonnng time ago, and since the whole night was dedicated to the Beatles and lame popular artists...it's not shocking. That's their history. Thats why they're getting low ratings. thats why the PUBLIC doesn't buy into them anymore.

I've been watching CNN/FOX/and MSNBC 24/7...especially last week since my parents were addicted to it. And ever since this Rev. Wright stuff came out people, commentators, pundits have been ripping obama apart for it. Non stop. No mercy lol. But of course, the public isn't buying into it. Soooo...hm. I dunno. Difference of opinion i guess.

Since ur talking about the period between Bad and now...where his career was dead since he left the usa...i'd have to definitely disagree with you there. Even during the History era...was NOT dead to the world, even if he was overseas. MJ's marriage, the MTV Awards performance, SCREAM!!!, YANA....i remember all of that. And granted, they gave him a tough time with the marriage, but certainly not all of the press was slanderous.

I'm not saying the media was always positive and stuff. OF COURSE the media has been bogus. But I'm not one to focus exclusively on the bad...I'm one to acknowledge the good COUPLED with the bad. And I'm sorry to say that i definitely disagree with the idea that the media has been consistently bad since the time Bad came out to now.

 

[144000]

I don't think what you're saying is objective if u don't think the media was EVER positive between the Bad era and now (now that i know ur thinking of that long of a time period. At first i thought u were just talking about the allegations up til now). But okay.

And i didn't say the media didn't try to sabatoge him. They did. Thats not my point. My point is that just because the media tried, doesn't mean they did. And when they tried, it always benefited THEM.

And you lived through WHAT years? I lived through the most "stagnant" years of being a MJ fan...and I never had a problem getting MJ played on urban radio stations where I lived. I live in Chicago and for as long as I remember I've always heard MJ on the radio. YANA, Scream, and Remember The Time were pretty much ALL i've heard on the radio :lol: And those ain't even from OTW or Thriller.

When Invincible came out there was MAD love for MJ on radio stations. EVERY DJ got their hands on YRMW and I had no problem hearing it on radio. Butterflies did even BETTER. I didn't even bother trying to request it...they played it so much.

Yes and the year MJ performed at the Grammys he got duped for his rightfully earned grammys for BAD. The second biggest selling album of all time. And the grammys have fell off a lonnng time ago, and since the whole night was dedicated to the Beatles and lame popular artists...it's not shocking. That's their history. Thats why they're getting low ratings. thats why the PUBLIC doesn't buy into them anymore.

I've been watching CNN/FOX/and MSNBC 24/7...especially last week since my parents were addicted to it. And ever since this Rev. Wright stuff came out people, commentators, pundits have been ripping obama apart for it. Non stop. No mercy lol. But of course, the public isn't buying into it. Soooo...hm. I dunno. Difference of opinion i guess.

Since ur talking about the period between Bad and now...where his career was dead since he left the usa...i'd have to definitely disagree with you there. Even during the History era...was NOT dead to the world, even if he was overseas. MJ's marriage, the MTV Awards performance, SCREAM!!!, YANA....i remember all of that. And granted, they gave him a tough time with the marriage, but certainly not all of the press was slanderous.

I'm not saying the media was always positive and stuff. OF COURSE the media has been bogus. But I'm not one to focus exclusively on the bad...I'm one to acknowledge the good COUPLED with the bad. And I'm sorry to say that i definitely disagree with the idea that the media has been consistently bad since the time Bad came out to now.

you and i definitely have a difference of opinion then. although i told you over and over, i differentiated. i differentiated between what the media did and how the fans stuck it out through thick and thin. but after the oprah interview he had a short run of popularity until that 1993 thing that came out of thin air. from that point forward, it was a great struggle..which, it seems you are half agreeing with now..when you weren't agreeing with it at all in previous posts. and..as far as whether the attempt to sabotage him succeded..i never brought that up. as MJ said in the song unbreakable...blocking him does not stop him. i already know that. and now you said in an earlier post that he was dead to the world..now in this post you say he wasn't. lol...anyway...

the sparsity with which Mj was played since the 1993 attack from the first accusers was alarming. and note..i said sparse..i didn't say not at all, but sparse. i remember you are not alone being played only once that year, or twice at best during it's rocketing to number 1. and it rocketed there, because they counted sales at that time. if the charts were how they became after that rocketing...you are not alone would not have been declared number 1, cus it would have depended on airplay alone. and if all the press was not against him..enough of it was to make those who were for him, practically obsolete. so it doesn't even matter. it was harsh..and i couldn't get in calls for a song like i said. now i don't know if you and are purposely living in two different worlds for the sake of argument or not..but i'm telling you, the Obama thing is a different story. the fact that you start out totally disagreeing with me about the Michael situation, then, as your posts progress, there are some things that you agree with me on, and some that you don't, just makes me wonder..

i was just listening to abc news..and they keep talking about how Obama is clearly going to win...and that Hillary should drop out. that does not sound like negativity toward him, to me. are you going to tell me that these reports about Hilllary being behind in her bills, and reports about Obama not being behind..which i even see on threads in this forum, is false, too? clearly, the treatment of Obama now, and the treatment of MJ then, are polar opposites. and as far as any negativity toward Obama...it's the regular dose of negativity that makes a tv network look fair and balanced. it's definitely not the slander that MJ took back in those other years. i'm telling you....if i was a voter now...i don't see how Obama could not win..except for the fear that i have that people might get cold feet, like i said previously. but, as far as the media is concerned...Obama has every reason to feel and look as confident as he looks rignt now.

now, as far as me accentuating the positive about MJ..i always do, because i know he's invincible....and his music always stands despite what the media did...but i'm still not discounting what the media tried to do, here.

i am objective..obviously you did misunderstand me. you choose to ignore what i'm saying now about seacrest. and what the media did, did NOT benefit them, back then, because it just galvanized the fans toward loving MJ more.

 

[J5master]

Ok the obama point i concede. I was talking about the R. Wright issue. Which was hella exaggerated and ridiculous. That's all i heard about last week.

And i'm being inconsistant in my posts because I don't understand what time period your talking about most of the time. Is it the past = last couple of years? Past= first allegations til now? Past= Bad era til now?

I never said it wasn't a struggle in any of my posts. the media is a tough nut to crack. But again, it's not like it was straight b-line murder all the way through...from the first allegations til now...I don't believe that. I personally have not experienced it being horrid lynching from the first allegations on...ESPECIALLY during the beginning of the Invincible era.

And I assure u I'm not just making stuff up for the sake of argument. I still totally disagree with you on the MJ situation...that MJ doesn't dislike the country or makes USA last of his priorities because of the media. I've consistently said that. All these sub topics just comes down the the fact that MJ does not necessarily has disdain for the country as a whole...the first point that was made...and the first point that i've been arguing against from the beginning.

I didn't choose to ignore u. You decided to only talk about the past and thats what i'm doing. So the fact that u give props about stuff going on now is not an issue here.

And it did benefit them because when people buy their stories and get paid money for pictures and sensationalized stories (which people did)....its beneficial to them. No matter how strong the fan base is.

 

[144000]

Ok the obama point i concede. I was talking about the R. Wright issue. Which was hella exaggerated and ridiculous. That's all i heard about last week.

And i'm being inconsistant in my posts because I don't understand what time period your talking about most of the time. Is it the past = last couple of years? Past= first allegations til now? Past= Bad era til now?

I never said it wasn't a struggle in any of my posts. the media is a tough nut to crack. But again, it's not like it was straight b-line murder all the way through...from the first allegations til now...I don't believe that. I personally have not experienced it being horrid lynching from the first allegations on...ESPECIALLY during the beginning of the Invincible era.

And I assure u I'm not just making stuff up for the sake of argument. I still totally disagree with you on the MJ situation...that MJ doesn't dislike the country or makes USA last of his priorities because of the media. I've consistently said that. All these sub topics just comes down the the fact that MJ does not necessarily has disdain for the country as a whole...the first point that was made...and the first point that i've been arguing against from the beginning.

well....on your consistencies, let me say this. you hear that MJ has rhino skin...and you think he doesn't react to people trying to hurt him?

you think that the lyric 'i don't believe this is the land from which i came' is a statement of disenchantment with america?

you think it's not normal human nature for him to first have a blanket reaction because of the deep pain he felt..that he stated he felt? like, how he expressed that he's tired of the hate? for him to denounce america is not a stretch. even if it's only the media's fault. he's being attacked by a large conglomerate. and it must feel like it's the entire country. how can that be hard for you to imagine? ONLY as time passed, could his emotions calm down enough for him to write a follow up song on Invincible, called 'Privacy'..where THEN, he distinguished between the media and the fans.

and yes....i heard about the rev. wright thing with Obama...but...you know..the very fact that people have different religious beliefs is gunna parse that, and dilute it to some extent. it still wasn't like the straight pure venom that was against MJ, back in those times...yes..those times when the first allegations came, right up to only recently, when MJ knew when to time his return. before MJ moved back to vegas, the internet was bombarded with people missing MJ...and the media began to calm down. ONLY THEN, did MJ feel ok with coming back to the usa. so..yes..it was a long tough time, in this country. and like i said..i AM objective. i'm leading the charge about how the media is supporting MJ now..i STARTED a thread about ryan seacrest, here, and it's on this forum now. and i posted about desperate housewives, and the media campaign playing his songs NOW. so i am objective. the desperate housewives thread is in this section of the forum too, if you are willing to look at it.

 

[J5master]

The rev. wright thing had less to do with religion and more about race. But ok.

YES i think he reacts to people who try to hurt him but like i said CONSISTENTLY, I believe MJ knows how to separate those who actually hurt him from those that didn't. Maybe not immediately but eventually. I think MJ is smarter and wiser than to hold a grudge against the country, just because bad things happened to happen to him with IN that country. It's a POSSIBILITY that MJ left because of that reaction but then again that's not a solid deduction either. History he went away...then he came back for invincible. After the trial he left and then he came back. MJ always comes back because he knows the country has not hurt him...so he has no reason to be afraid of the country itself or its market. And he isnt. So again to say that he's not crazy about the country or that he doesn't like the country is not a fair statement. To say he doesn't NEED usa...is unfair either. Of course career wise he can eliminate any country from his market and still have a career but that's not the point. The USA is his home and he has support, and not just from his hard core fans. He has a MARKET here.

I've already talked about the TDCUA lyric numerous times LOL

Again, i say, u have reminded me this is not about whats going on now (not ryan, or desperate housewives). So when it comes to talking about the past..I just don't see the objectivity if u truly think that from Bad to dangerous the media was just a lynching machine through out that whooole time.

 

[144000]

The rev. wright thing had less to do with religion and more about race. But ok.

YES i think he reacts to people who try to hurt him but like i said CONSISTENTLY, I believe MJ knows how to separate those who actually hurt him from those that didn't. Maybe not immediately but eventually. I think MJ is smarter and wiser than to hold a grudge against the country, just because bad things happened to happen to him with IN that country. It's a POSSIBILITY that MJ left because of that reaction but then again that's not a solid deduction either. History he went away...then he came back for invincible. After the trial he left and then he came back. MJ always comes back because he knows the country has not hurt him...so he has no reason to be afraid of the country itself or its market. And he isnt. So again to say that he's not crazy about the country or that he doesn't like the country is not a fair statement. To say he doesn't NEED usa...is unfair either. Of course career wise he can eliminate any country from his market and still have a career but that's not the point. The USA is his home and he has support, and not just from his hard core fans. He has a MARKET here.

I've already talked about the TDCUA lyric numerous times LOL

and, so now, you are conceding that time had to pass before MJ could differentiate, which you didn't do in earlier posts. and i know you were clear on what i said, in that case. i don't care how smart a person is..they still have emotions. so, it's very fair for me to say that MJ first left because of the hurt. he has emotions just like you and i...and just as you and i are reacting to just one person in this thread...it's nothing compared to MJ reacting to a BIG conglomerate, such as the media..and how big that can look in ANYONE's eyes. it looks like you are purposely avioding the part where i say time has to pass...then you are conceding. it should go without saying that time has to pass for him to heal, before he begins to differentiate. time HAD to pass...and the media was hostile..and it was not time for him to come back yet. and now, later he writes the song privacy to prove that he could settle emotionally and show that he can differentiate. everything i'm saying here is very very fair. the part i emboldened in your statement is something that i never parted from saying.

 

[J5master]

when have i ever said that MJ was a robot and wouldn't react? What's in question here is his views on america and his supposed disdain which i disagree with. In that comment u did not say that he would EVER differentiate. Thats why I've been debating against all this time. That ever since the allegations til now MJ just has a disdain 4 America and avoided it. Sooo....

Also the time limitations on what we're talking about is really trippin me out because at first you say that Mj ISN'T so big on america NOW.

And when I argue in the context of now, you want the conversation to only be about the past.

And when i do that u go back to the present.

So i dunno lol

 

[144000]

when have i ever said that MJ was a robot and wouldn't react? What's in question here is his views on america and his supposed disdain which i disagree with. In that comment u did not say that he would EVER differentiate. Thats why I've been debating against all this time. That ever since the allegations til now MJ just has a disdain 4 America and avoided it. Sooo....

you're not making sense here..cus for me to say that he reacted with disdain in the beginning because of his emotions, is a fair statement. i shouldn't have to talk about time passing, and him showing that he could differentiate. the initial raw emotion of the hurt cancels out any need for him to differentiate in the BEGINNING. if i say something to you that hurts...YOU won't differentiate at first. but as time passes you can see clearer. i'm just debating with you now..and at first, your reaction is pure disagreement...then you see clearer as time passes. what's the difference?

you're splitting hairs. you know people...ALL people let their emotions go first, before they begin to see how to differentiate. for him to want to have nothing to do with america in the beginning is understandable....and then, for time to pass..AFTER his fans prove that they are standing by his side, all this time, is completely normal. and i NEVER disputed that things calmed down WITH time.

 

[J5master]

Why did i get the impression that u feel MJ never differentiates?

The original statement at hand...that MJ ISN'T so big or HAS disdain for America. Present tense. LOL

And no i'm not seeing clearer as time passes with this debate...nice try :lol: What IS happening is i'm trying to figure out the context of your arguments (because they aren't clear at all) and I then have to change my arguments to fit this changing context thats going on. Me talking about the last 2 years is a BIG difference between u talking about the last 15. I still completely disagree with your first statement.

 

[144000]

Why did i get the impression that u feel MJ never differentiates?

The original statement at hand...that MJ ISN'T so big or HAS disdain for America. Present tense. LOL

i don't know. why did you? like i said...did you hear my comments on t25? did you see my posts in other threads that i mentioned? did you EVER hear my statements about his CURRENT love for american fans and fans around the world? that's part of america too, isn't it? are you just harping on something that will allow you to keep all this up? do you refuse to see the comments i'm making right now?

 

[J5master]

That was a retorical question. I answered it in the second sentence

And its not about the fans...I'm talking about the country ... and in the original statement that i disagreed with, you said COUNTRY and spoke in present tense, meaning NOW and TODAY. lol That is why. I'm not disputing ur sentiments about MJ's love for all his fans. I'm disputing ur sentiments about MJ's disdain for a country as a whole.

 

[144000]

That was a retorical question. I answered it in the second sentence

And its not about the fans...I'm talking about the country. and in the original statement that i disagreed with you said COUNTRY. lol That is why.

the country is as much the fans as it is the media. and like i said..if he's all about every facet of this country, including the media..why did he not show up at the grammys? you going rhetorical on me, seems uncalled for, if you are trying just to get at me. anyway..i thought you were about the present. like i said..i'm glad of how things are going NOW. He loves his fans all around the world and in america NOW. that's what he keeps saying. i haven't heard him say, thank you, american media, just yet. and he's still not doing that many interviews here, just yet....even if there are some media that would welcome him. then again, he's hobnobbing with Larry King, so....

still, the fact is..i'm already singing america's praises now. but you want to concentrate on whatever will keep this going.

 

[J5master]

What? I can't use rhetorical questions without being combative or "getting at" someone? Fine. Now I know LOL

And I gave u my reason for the Grammys.

And u keep confusing me. Like i said u were first talking about the present and then u were sooo insistent about talking about the past so thats what i did. I still right now have no idea what past ur talking about, what period MJ was dead to the world in...or what period of the past we were debating about in general.

And he gave his first interview since the trial HERE, lest u forget. Ebony. American magazine. And in general has MJ EVER been big on giving interviews? Not really. Especially when he's trying to lay low before an album release.

Look its a simple debate. Your comment really jarred me. And your comment that i've some how attacked you jarred me even more.

 

[KOPV]

so is it just you too going back and forth now?? lol!

just use the chat rooms. it would be easier for u guys to go at it..

I was here, left, came back, left, watched Ellen Degenerous stand up comedy, came back..

You two have been at it like ALL DAY.. jeez! lol!

u 2 are some energized ppl..

try the chat.. Or better yet, exchange phone #'s and fight it out.. lol!


good night guys.. Hope I don't see u here tomarrow morning.. lol!

 

[J5master]

so is it just you too going back and forth now?? lol!

just use the chat rooms. it would be easier for u guys to go at it..

I was here, left, came back, left, watched Ellen Degenerous stand up comedy, came back..

You two have been at it like ALL DAY.. jeez! lol!

u 2 are some energized ppl..

try the chat.. Or better yet, exchange phone #'s and fight it out.. lol!


good night guys.. Hope I don't see u here tomarrow morning.. lol!

:lol: I'm not gonna lie, i like to debate. Thats how it was in the GD3 at one point...fun stuff. But just so i clarify, I don't make up arguments that i don't have heart in just for the sake of debate

 

[KOPV]

^^OH SO U WANT SOME OF ME.....??? ^^^


COME ON THEN! I'LL TAKE YOU RIGHT NOW...









ya I didn't think so. Good night

 

[144000]

What? I can't use rhetorical questions without being combative or "getting at" someone? Fine. Now I know LOL

And I gave u my reason for the Grammys.

And u keep confusing me. Like i said u were first talking about the present and then u were sooo insistent about talking about the past so thats what i did. I still right now have no idea what past ur talking about, what period MJ was dead to the world in...or what period of the past we were debating about in general.

And he gave his first interview since the trial HERE, lest u forget. Ebony. American magazine. And in general has MJ EVER been big on giving interviews? Not really. Especially when he's trying to lay low before an album release.

Look its a simple debate. Your comment really jarred me. And your comment that i've some how attacked you jarred me even more.

you know what, you are not clear on it, because you don't want to read my posts on what period i was talking about. and i'm not going to repeat it...but, i did just look at that first post i posted here..and it doesn't matter how i worded it...it would be clear to just about anyone else, that i said he loves the fans...and i divided that from the media. it's clearly seen. a person would know what i meant in that post, unless they just didn't want to acknowledge it. and the fact that i forgot ebony doesn't really mean anything...all you have to do is replace that with Larry King, and him hanging around with him. Yes, he did Ebony. in it, he was still smarting, as he said 'people are crazy'. what makes you think he didn't feel even more intense in years before that interview?

it's not a simple debate....here..you are picking at my sentences...you are looking for very small things...you don't see where i differentiate in my very FIRST post. you are punishing me for not wording it with absolute perfection..yet, a lot of people could see that i made myself clear with the differentiating in that first post. i don't know why it's jarring you. this is the style you are approaching me with. this is the style you always approach me with.

the FACT is, you are trying to make me feel like i did NOT differentiate in my first post, on purpose. it's a very clever disguised attack. now, if you want me to quote my first post, and tell you how i differentiate, i'll be glad to do it, though it's not done to your satisfaction.

 

[144000]

:lol: I'm not gonna lie, i like to debate. Thats how it was in the GD3 at one point...fun stuff. But just so i clarify, I don't make up arguments that i don't have heart in just for the sake of debate

it doesn't seem that way.

 

[J5master]

ooooooooooooooookay vncwilliam. this is my exit.

I've read ur first post over and over again and i don't see the differentiation. U say u see why mj doesn't like the country, POSSIBLY because of the media...so really there isn't a clear distinction. Thats why. You speak of MJ CLEARLY not liking the country NOW...which i also disagree with.

No matter how many times I say (and not even in this thread but other threads) that I'm not trying to pick on you but I just like debating...you're never going to believe me apparently...and that's a shame because generally i agree with MOST, about 90% of your posts.

I pick at sentences because that's how I communicate. Hell, I'm studying ENGLISH right now...so that's just how I argue. Usually people say what they mean. ANd all I've got to go on from what you MEAN is what you STATED....and from how I've read the first post u made...I definitely disagree and I've stated why respectfully.

I believe everything I've said...I'm not just making up arguments for the sake of it, but again that just seems like another thing ur never going to believe...

 

[J5master]

^^OH SO U WANT SOME OF ME.....??? ^^^


COME ON THEN! I'LL TAKE YOU RIGHT NOW...









ya I didn't think so. Good night

Yeah right!! You wanna take this to the chatroom???!

HUH??

HUH???


(takes off earrings)


LETS SEE WHO'S BAD! :lol:

 

[144000]

well..let's face it...although msg was unusual for him...the usa media has been terrible for the most part. and for the most part you are on point about this country. i am a usa citizen but i am objective on this topic. i can understand why MJ isn't big on this country, possibly because of the media, the bullet proof vest moments..the trial, neverland,..etc. but honestly, MJ doesn't need the usa....the whole world loves him..and the usa fans are included..and i'm sure they understand, after all the trauma he has been through here...and he knows the fans are not to blame, which is why he did msg for the fans only and not the media....but MJ is in good shape, and doesn't need the usa. however..who knows what the future holds.

well...i'm glad it's your exit, J5 m..

here's the differentiation. the bolded part clearly says..though not in a way that satisfies you, obviously, that he has a real problem,with and doesn't like the american media. the unboldened part says he loves the american fans. surrree i didn't write it in a way that would help me avoid your...well....debating...but, it's still clear to you, and you know this.

now...it's my turn to concede this much.... i said he isn't BIG on america. i didn't use the word 'hate', though. being not big on america doesn't mean he doesn't find himself warming up to america....and by that, i mean, the media. not the fans.

the media represents america. and i said he doesn't like america there. the fans represent america, and in a way that doesn't satisfy you, i said he still loves america THERE, by saying he did it for the fans. it goes without saying that he loves his fans. and in this case, that includes american fans. he's not doing those concerts for someone he doesn't love. i mean, since you are into studying every word i write, i went by every sentence here. by the way, i also said that for the MOST part, Arabian Knight is right about america, not for ALL parts of america. if this means i'm leaving out ebony magazine, well..that's one magazine. and i think i'm allowed for the fact that i am propping ryan seacrest in other threads. it's not like i'm in a courtroom talking by using a lawyer. and, since you are about exactly what i mean by what i say, i wish you could have looked at the other threads i spoke of, about seacrest and such. but you chose to pick on what i said about the media in general, here..and not the media specifically in those other threads, since you're all about EVERY word i say. if i hadn't made those posts, then you'd have an argument. but, since i didn't word in that precise perfect way, i guess i'm going to have to concede that you caught me, as far as this thread is concerned(when it comes to the general statement i made about the media in THIS thread, since that's the ONLY media statement you want to concentrate on, that i made, and you don't want to concentrate on the seacrest and desperate housewives statements, that i told you about, in this thread, to refer to.). i'll see you here, tomorrow.:lol:

 

[J5master]

Last thing. So you know.

First u say usa media has been terrible. Granted. Then u say I can understand why MJ isn't big on this country, POSSIBLY because of the media...which blurs that distinction between the country and the media that you set before. And then u go on to say that MJ doesn't even NEED the USA...which definitely kills that distinction.

Obviously if it was CLEAR to me I wouldn't have started this debate. But like i said no matter what I say ur not gonna believe that. Psh. Go figure.

And I concede this. "Hateration" when i said it...is slang. It doesn't necessarily mean SERIOUS "hate"...it means more like..."ganging up upon" or "bullying".

OK the last paragraph u just made sorta makes sense but I'm sorry but it's strange to separate America into entities like that and expect everyone to understand. When I say "I love America"...people usually take it generally. Not "she must mean she loves America's economy or cultural system and not the political systems and media". And I also dont get why the fans and the media are the only things that make up america. As I've said before MJ's market isn't just the media and fans.

 

[J5master]

Hm. And apparently u don't get that i'm trying to make peace with you, based on ur post in the other thread i just made. That's unfortunate. cuz like i said, i generally agree with you on most things.

 

[144000]

Last thing. So you know.

First u say usa media has been terrible. Granted. Then u say I can understand why MJ isn't big on this country, POSSIBLY because of the media...which blurs that distinction between the country and the media that you set before. And then u go on to say that MJ doesn't even NEED the USA...which definitely kills that distinction.

Obviously if it was CLEAR to me I wouldn't have started this debate. But like i said no matter what I say ur not gonna believe that. Psh. Go figure.

And I concede this. "Hateration" when i said it...is slang. It doesn't necessarily mean SERIOUS "hate"...it means more like..."ganging up upon" or "bullying".

OK the last paragraph u just made sorta makes sense but I'm sorry but it's strange to separate America into entities like that and expect everyone to understand. When I say "I love America"...people usually take it generally. Not "she must mean she loves America's economy or cultural system and not the political systems and media". And I also dont get why the fans and the media are the only things that make up america. As I've said before MJ's market isn't just the media and fans.

indeed..you do love to debate. i love that you 'exited.' lol

you know what, i'm going to let you get the last word, as usual, cus..after all..you love debates. but, just as the usa can divide itself into states with the laws they make... saying one loves america for certain reasons..and not for others is not such a new thing. i admit, i am satisfied that you slowly worked your way into agreeing with more than half of what i said, by the time this debate was.....over?

and..quite frankly i don't care what you don't agree with. i know i made myself clear enough. just as you say i'm not going to believe everything you say... i know you're not going to agree with everything i say, no matter what either. that doesn't discount that i also stand by everything i said..and that i made myself clear enough. there were others that agreed with me on this thread. it doesn't necessarily have to be that you have to be one of those that totally agrees with me. that's nothing new, either...with anyone. so..now..as i have been able to keep the promise before...( i should be elected for this) i AM exiting.

 

[J5master]

nevermind.

 

[cinderella]

They care about thriller only in the essence of it being the work of "old" Michael jackson. But when u have the "new" MJ...seemingly rehashing it after a image breaking trial....like i said, it's easy for them if they wanted to.

you are repeating the same arguments...
and I'm too positive about future in spite of all the negative press that may appear again....